Hello
I really need you experts to help me go through multiple frustrations on my project that make me feel discouraged. Here is a list of my frustrations, and if you feel liek you want to give me advice on on or all of them, please do.
1. I have 6 locomotives: they all have their own little problem: lack of space for speaker of dcc module, speaker, wires, lights not working, wheels getting dirty all the time, stuttering, when I solve a problem, seems like another arises. Today, I found out one of my loco only had front wheels pickup working (but all is wired correctly... so, go figure...)
2. I can't seem to paint a backdrop that gives depth or perspective. I've had some practice, but it looks like a mess of colors.
3. Small parts, big fingers... Often, when I try to place small details on either a structure or locomotive: I accidently break something else, or it takes me 15 times to have it glued on, leaving glue spots and all.
4. How many hours of test runs should one put before declaring the layout works? Everything was all fine. And then...oh! I keep finding new problems like: a short on this turnout, loco simply stops at random spot, (but it was not the run before), derailement there (with no apparent reason nor identifable cause).
Now this is my 3rd layout, the one I really want to be nice,with least flaws possible. The one I am investing myself in. I'm pretty sure I've done this one by the book, all according to best practices. I am being patient, I work slowly, I give attention to details, but it also seems this layout is the one with the most problems.
I am at the edge of discouragment where I really want to have fun, and I realise I am not having fun, because I always seem to be trying to solve problems.
Is this normal, or is just me discovering the depths of what the hobby's true experience is all about?
Thanks
Antoine
Antoine,
I have days like that, in fact the last week has been a lot like that...
That's always a good time to consider what's gone right, as there's almost always a lot of that if yhou think about it.
Doing it by the book is usually a good idea, too, so you're on the right track. Some suggestions.
1. Pick the engine you think is closest to running right, concentrate on it, get it where you want it. Then you have 5 more that need such extreme attention, but do them one at a time, unless you letting paint dry.
2. I've had pretty good luck with this, surprising myself. My suggestion is to either simplfy the painting or decide a photo backdrop is a better idea. I can recommend Greg Gray's Green Frog video on backdrop painting. Simple easy to follow stuff, it can take you to exactly the level of detail desire and nothing more.
3. Tweezers. And put the glue onto a glueboard, then use a toothpick or other applicator to apply just enough. Works especially well with CA and if you haven't tried it, get some CA "kicker" or catalyst. Get in with the glued part, spray with kicker, pause briefly, then let go.
4. RRs have the same problem. Weather and temp changes, so does the rail. Nothing stays perfect. Figure out what's caused by things changing and there are specific fixes for most. Then the rest are correctabhle defects. Can't catch them all. I use pins with a yellow top to indicate track defects, stick 'em as they are found, then go back over them in batches as they build up.
If nothing else, do something else. The world is not just trains, but you could do some reasearch on a favorite subject, view a relevant train or modeling video, etc. Then return to the layout with a fresh approach.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
1. Nothing is more frustrating than a loco that doesn’t run well. Clean your wheels and see if it helps. Use isopropyl alcohol on a handywipe or paper towel laid on the rails. Hold the loco and give it power so the wheels spin wiping off the dirt. Often one truck will have clean wheels that aer picking up power but the other truck has dirty wheels. The loco runs fine until it reaches a turnout or some dirty track. If both trucks are picking up it doesn't stall.
2. Painting landscapes is a artistic skill that most people do not have. I suggest that you go to the arts and crafts store and buy a good book on landscapes if you plan on painting mountains etc. Or else just paint your backdrop a light sky blue color. Or buy a backdrop.
3. Tweezers are a very useful tool. I always use them. I have several different styles to choose from for different jobs. They are a great help in building models or just to move figures and other details around on the layout. I also use forceps to hold parts while I paint them.
4. When a loco stalls, clean the track at the location with a little more care than usual. Also check that it has current, sometimes rail joiners get bent and become loose. When the weight of a train goes by it wiggles it into loosing contact.
Clean track plus clean wheels usually equals a well running train, providing that the track has been correctly laid.
Every time the weather changes my guitars all go out of tune. Same with model railroads, the weather effects the wood benchwork and can cause gaps or kinks in the track or unlevel roadbed. Usually they are not noticible but sometimes it is just enough to cause a derailment.
Don't let little setbacks discourage you. Think of maintenance as part of the fun.
I have been in this hobby on the HO scale side for going on 12 years. Anything bad that could happen has happened to me. It happens to a lot of us.
Now, let me address your issues.
1. I've got a lot more locos than you, and a lot of them have caused me problems and needed repairs from time to time. Model trains are like our automobiles. They break. They wear out. They need repairs. The honeymoon period in this hobby is short. Reality sets in fast. That doesn't make the hobby bad. You just have to overcome difficulties, learn, and grow.
2. I can't paint a backdrop with depth and perspective either. So, I paint my Masonite panels sky blue and leave it at that. I buy expensive photo backdrops where depth and perspective are needed. You are not alone.
3. Small parts, fat fingers, messed up details? That's what weathering is for....to hide all your mistakes.
4. How many hours of test runs before you can claim your track work is flawless? Ten years in my case. LOL Seriously. It took me that long to solve the derailments and inadvertent uncouplings, to eliminate the humps and valleys, to clear glued ballast from rails. But, I have finally succeeded and now life is good. Stay the course. You will get there.
5. Ahhh, your 3rd layout, and this is the one with the most flaws. Perfect. You have graduated from newbie status to oldbie status. Your 4th layout will be flawless because you have now committed every error imaginable. You have learned from your mistakes.
So what's the problem?
Rich
Alton Junction
Railroads, regardless of size need lots of maintenance.
LION is in the process of replacing all of the motors on his Walthers/Life-Like subway cars. It does not help that it is too hot to work ou there in the summer time, and then LION broke his leg and can not climb three flights of stairs.
Better to break a small plastic part than to break your leg.
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
BroadwayLion Railroads, regardless of size need lots of maintenance. LION is in the process of replacing all of the motors on his Walthers/Life-Like subway cars. It does not help that it is too hot to work ou there in the summer time, and then LION broke his leg and can not climb three flights of stairs. Better to break a small plastic part than to break your leg. ROAR
See? A LION with a broken leg and no opposable thumbs made it through, you can too, Antoine!
Julian
Modeling Pre-WP merger UP (1974-81)
1. Depends on what the engines are. If you have a bunch of inexpensive engines, like old Athearn blue box etc. it might just be that the engines aren't that well made. In the long run, one expensive but well made (and DCC - sound equipped) engine is better than several 'not so hot' cheap engines.
2. Keep it simple, Simon! A solid sky-blue backdrop is a lot better than nothing. If you can't paint hills, try making them out of something like grass mats or even construction paper. Light green hills behind darker green.
3. Bigger can be better! Maybe try Hi-Rail (three rail O, using 1:48 scale models) or On30 (avoid track problems - use Kato Unitrack. Yes the ties aren't right for On30, but it's very reliable.)
4. It's always something. I just spent a week trying to find a short in an engine I was converting to DCC. Turns out the engine was fine, the decoder was bad. It's always the last thing you check that turns out to be the problem....
If you are that frustrated, try a hi-rail type thing. Fewer wiring problems, fewer worries about being exact scale, less problems overall.
At one time time my hobbies were model railroading and golf. The problem with that particular combination is that when one gets frustrating -- and it will -- it is not like the other is right there to offer instant gratification to assuage the soul.
It took me years before I accepted the fact that I had certain locomotives which just were not going to make me happy and should be quietly retired to their boxes on the shelf, awaiting the "greater fool" theory to do its magic at a swap meet.
As for backdrops, my initial attempt was to paint the most accurate and real-looking cumulus clouds. I then realized that it looked goofy. I remember about that same time seeing photos of Jim Kelly's N scale Tehachapi Loop layout where he too had painted cumulus clouds where you could clearly see each billow and it looked goofy too.
Sometimes, the more detailed the backdrop the more it annoys the eyeball because it creates a tight crisp focus point which is behind where the focus point should be - on the trains. So now my backdrop is blue, blended to light blue and almost white-ish blue at the horizon, and the clouds are not puffs but faint white smears against the sky: cirrus clouds, sometimes almost cirro cumulus. I have no buildings on the backdrop, and no details that catch the eye.
Dave Nelson
wjstix1. Depends on what the engines are. If you have a bunch of inexpensive engines, like old Athearn blue box etc. it might just be that the engines aren't that well made. In the long run, one expensive but well made (and DCC - sound equipped) engine is better than several 'not so hot' cheap engines.
That may be a better suggestion than my #1, Stix, depending on the OP's patience and frustration levels at this point. Better to ebay or swap meet off the pigs and invest in one GOOD engine.
You're only at the edge of discouragement? Well, I've been to the edge, over the cliff and landed in a battered heap at the bottom!
That's usually when "walk away and take a break" has exhausted it's usefulness.
That's when I once decided this one hand laid turnout was an irrepairable trouble maker and I was hot. I grabbed it and yanked it out of the layout! Congrats Einstien. It was soldered to the adjoining rail and took out a good length of track and at least one other good turnout.
That's when more locomotives than I like to admit become space ships, and what doesn't burn up on re-entry is impacted beyond recognition. (Not often though, but over many years a select few.)
Thats' when there have been times where I came to this forum, vented with a totally whiny rant and rave, got it all out there...waited a bit... reread the message. And deleated it all before posting, saving myself the embarrassment of exposing how OCD I was over something pretty trivial.
Just yesterday I was mixing a silicone batch for a mold. I kept the activator in a babyfood jar. It was sitting at the edge of the workbench. Thought I; Better cap that before I dump it. Picked it up. It slipped out of my grip. SPLAT! It happens.
And I'm coming to realize that the 2 molds I made didn't have enough activator, may never cure. There's a gooey mess to contend with saving the master.
The point is; You are far from alone, and these moments do pass. There are a lot of good things going on with the layout to let it make me give up.
My friend bought a RC plane and spent several months building it. One nice afternoon he took it out. He flew it around for several minutes and it worked great, then he crashed it. And that was it…. That’s why I like my trains. And no, I don’t let him drive them. lol
Antoine L. Hello I really need you experts to help me go through multiple frustrations on my project that make me feel discouraged. Here is a list of my frustrations, and if you feel liek you want to give me advice on on or all of them, please do. 1. I have 6 locomotives: they all have their own little problem: lack of space for speaker of dcc module, speaker, wires, lights not working, wheels getting dirty all the time, stuttering, when I solve a problem, seems like another arises. Today, I found out one of my loco only had front wheels pickup working (but all is wired correctly... so, go figure...) 2. I can't seem to paint a backdrop that gives depth or perspective. I've had some practice, but it looks like a mess of colors. 3. Small parts, big fingers... Often, when I try to place small details on either a structure or locomotive: I accidently break something else, or it takes me 15 times to have it glued on, leaving glue spots and all. 4. How many hours of test runs should one put before declaring the layout works? Everything was all fine. And then...oh! I keep finding new problems like: a short on this turnout, loco simply stops at random spot, (but it was not the run before), derailement there (with no apparent reason nor identifable cause). Now this is my 3rd layout, the one I really want to be nice,with least flaws possible. The one I am investing myself in. I'm pretty sure I've done this one by the book, all according to best practices. I am being patient, I work slowly, I give attention to details, but it also seems this layout is the one with the most problems. I am at the edge of discouragment where I really want to have fun, and I realise I am not having fun, because I always seem to be trying to solve problems. Is this normal, or is just me discovering the depths of what the hobby's true experience is all about? Thanks Antoine
We all have our strengths and weaknesses. Some folks are lucky and are pretty good at most things, others only one or two, some of us "get by." Do the best you can for now and as time goes by, you will see improvements.
3. Is the only one I will add to. Tweezers are very helpful and I have a pair that hold when you release them. I like them for fine work as I don't need to keep pressure on them while trying to line things up. The second thing I have found even more helpful is a set of reamers. Often the predrilled holes are much to close in size to push a fragile part into. Enlarge the hole with a reamer just a bit and the piece slides in much easier. You can also use a drill, but the reamers are slightly taperes and stronger than small drills.
Keep the faith.
Good luck,
Richard
I had a few nice locomotives. Over time, they became fewer and fewer, until I only had 2 or 3 locos that ran. I would try to fix them, but for each problem I fixed, I would create another problem. Finally, I only had a single engine that ran well. I put my trains away, and forgot about them for 10 years.
My life settled down, I had some space, and I decided to get the trains out. After about 5 minutes of taking inventory, I decided my best bet was to start from scratch - all new engines - and over time work on fixing the broken stuff. Because I didn't feel like I needed to fix anything to enjoy the hobby, it's been much more enjoyable. And I've managed to fix a few engines, too.
Southgate,
The "correct" term is "CDO". (That's OCD in alphabetical order. The way it should be. )
Now, back on topic,
Sometimes things get on my nerves as well.
Worst "incident day" was when I had finished some track-work, and decided to run a test train. Silly me, I chose a coal drag. Loaded. With live coal loads.
Everything worked great. Up until I ran through a closed turnout for the newly laid spur track off of the siding the wrong way. Derailed lead loco, and first two hoppers. Into the side of a waiting manifest. And what did I sideswipe? Two Genesis Box cars, weathered by a pro, (who was not me, so added to the price of the already not-cheap cars themselves), and one locomotive. Damaged beyond belief the first box car, (which is still awaiting full repairs), snapped off details on all six, and dumped HO scales sized coal, from the two lead hoppers, everywhere.
(I was still cleaning up coal 6 weeks later. And, I no longer run live loads in my coal hoppers....)
Well, that got me mad, so, I ran the yard engine. Sent a locomotive "down the abyss" due to not having everything finished on the drill track. (It helps to make sure you don't have loose spikes that are not fully set before hitting them. Fortunately, I was there, close enough, to, fortunately, catch before impact. Still snapped handrails though.)
So, I decided I would finish a decoder install in another loco. And promptly burnt a couple fingers.
That is when I decided I needed to find something other than trains for the day...
And then promptly shattered a drum stick whilst drumming... Ever been smacked in the face by shattered drum stick flying projectiles? It does not tickle. Kinda like hugging a pine tree... After crashing a bike into it. Sharp and prickly. And painful.
So, I sat down and read a book. (I probably should have been wearing gloves to prevent a nasty paper cut at the rate I was going! )
Bottom line, we've all "been there, done that".
It gets better.
Ricky W.
HO scale Proto-freelancer.
My Railroad rules:
1: It's my railroad, my rules.
2: It's for having fun and enjoyment.
3: Any objections, consult above rules.
ricktrains4824 Southgate, The "correct" term is "CDO". (That's OCD in alphabetical order. The way it should be. ) Now, back on topic, ...
Now, back on topic, ...
Compulsive Disorder Obsessive?
Hmmm. Thank goodness I'm not OCD about terminlogy. Or CDO.
Hey, speaking about backdrops, heres an incident involving one. In one of the pictures you can see it leaning against the wall after it fell on this little scratchbuilt freight car repair shed.
I very carefully gathered up every sliver and reassembled it. And this was a copy of a first one I built, it was lost in a fire. I never really got upset about the backdrop incident The shed is still a WIP (or IPW in alphabetical order, the way it should be)
I very carefully gathered up every sliver and reassembled it. And this was a copy of a first one I built, it was lost in a fire.
I never really got upset about the backdrop incident The shed is still a WIP (or IPW in alphabetical order, the way it should be)
Hey all, thanks for support and advice I read all of your posts and it is great that you took the time to reassure me.
I think the most important advice in all this is to stop when things start to go wrong. So yesterday I did not touch anything, I played a video game, and all my train thoughts and stresses went away.
I think what I prefer is doing scenery. All the calculations and wiring are very tedious.
I understand from all your replies that discouragment is rather part of the experience, just like moments of great joy and fulfillment. I'll get over it and keep working.
Thank you everyone.
One of the reasons I'm in S scale now instead of HO is the parts are bigger and easier to work with.
As a plus, the larger engines have more weight and thus better pick up.
But as I have found over the years - part of the fun (if you can call it that ) in the hobby is tinkering with stuff.
Enjoy
Paul
For tweezers, hare are a couple of suggestions
for a good general purpose tweezer:
From Walthers, sorry no picturehttp://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/271-30415
They look somethng like thishttp://www.micromark.com/micro-tweezer-90-degree-curve,7273.html
MicroMark also sells a Pearl Tweezer that is good for handling round-ish parts that like to fly off somewhere when used with a regular tweeezeerhttp://www.micromark.com/pearl-tweezer,8033.html
Check your local hobby shop or craft store
George In Midcoast Maine, 'bout halfway up the Rockland branch
Just like on the prototype, a railroad man's work is never done. I, too, have engines with burned-out headlights and less than all-wheel pickup, although at one time they were complete and perfect. You can't just build a railroad. You have to maintain it as well. I've got a box under my layout for engines and rolling stock that need repair. The two or three missing headlights are still serviceable, but bad trucks and couplers are not. I sit down and fix things from time to time.
I've got a cheap magnifying desk lamp and a few pairs of tweezers. I find that these tools, in addition to some toothpicks to apply glue to small parts, make doing detail work a lot easier.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Look for some trade-offs in this analysis. That is, even though some things aren't going well, aren't there some things that are coming out pretty good and which you enjoy? It is not uncommon for me to pause in a difficult project, set it aside, and put together a relatively easy kit.... not that I really need another USRA hopper car, but I like that basic assembly, not a whole lot can go wrong, and when I have space to run a long coal train I'll be ready.
As you have seen in the other replies, we've all had some "issues", and sometimes they do tend to pile up. I like the look of those nicely painted backdrops in the magazine layouts, but knew that would entail a special skill that I did not have and at this point wasn't really interested in taking the time to learn. I thus roller painted my backdrop a basic sky blue and have been really pleased with that. I've never had a visitor say "how come there aren't any clouds in your sky". I did follow some printed advice and picked a blue that was slightly darker than I would first guess - and that comes out much better in photos.
And get yourself some sort of workbench magnifier. I bought mine at a train show and it doesn't have any brand name on it - it can fold up and is about 5" in all dimensions. I used to do everything without it, but now I use it all the time. Part of that is the aging of the eyes, but it also certainly allows more accurate placement of parts, holes, decals, etc. Doesn't have to be expensive, but can remove a lot of frustration.
And like others, I have some "nice" locomotives that have good detail but have been consistantly poor runners despite my efforts. They look pretty in the display case, and the layout rosters locomotives that run dependably.
Time to do a little something on or for your layout that you enjoy so that some of that frustration doesn't get too concentrated.
Bill
Well for trade-off and positive things:
I managed to make a nice looking scene with static grass made from a bug zapper. I am pretty pleased with light green and burned grass mix.
I also bought the Railpro system and I have a Kato SD40 that runs flawlessly with a small ESU Loksound cellphone type speaker. It really is nice to look at it crawling at slow speed. The 6 axles makes more contacts on the rail too, so it doesn't stutter and it's brand new. I need to pu on guard rails and stuff tho. It's also a lot of fun to lash up with other locos and look at the live automatic speed adjustements they do to pull together, locos seem to talk to each other, very impressive. (I skipped DCC, and went from DC to railpro)
I am scratchbuilding a small dam, so far it looks good.
I have weathered a walthers background building kit and it looks nice too.
I have 4 walthers kit waiting for me, and I have a complete holiday week coming to spend time on them.
I have found a nice way to weather code 100 atlas rail, I paint all ties with Woodland Scenics concrete color, let it half-dry, then brush over some brown waterbased wood-tint on, it creates the perfect light brown for ties, and all uneven looks more realistic, and I end up painting the sides of the rails with the rusty painter marker from WS. With fine ballast it looks quite nice.
And, I am married since october 3rd.
:)
Antoine L.And, I am married since october 3rd.
richhotrain Antoine L. And, I am married since october 3rd. Therein lies the problem. Rich
Antoine L. And, I am married since october 3rd.
Therein lies the problem.
That all depends. My 1st wife was very antagonistic toward my hobby and well, my life in general. It cost me but I had to move on or die a slow painful death. I chose to move on. My 2nd wife has been very good to me - she helped so we found a town house in the very expensive Washington DC far west suburbs with a basement where I could start building a layout after a l-o-n-g 15 years with no place for a layout.
You want to talk about being on the edge of discouragment, that was me from 1999-2013, no place for a layout and trains in boxes all that time. Hey, at least you've been building a layout and actually running trains. Count your blessing for heavens sake. Now I have a layout almost to the stage of running trains and July the basement gets water from a sump pump failure. After 5 months I'm about to put a couple sections of benchwork back so I can maybe finally start running some trains this winter - after over 15 years. The last layout, btw, had to be torn down "just" as the golden spike was about to be driven, due to my 1st wife kicking me out. Edge of discouragement? Hey ... be happy!
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
This hobby is not for everyone.........
Regarding Atlantic Central's comment - "this hobby is not for everyone".
While I would love to argue that statement in defense of the hobby, I do believe it has a good degree of validity. Not everyone has the time, skills, money or inclination/interest to enjoy the building of a layout.
Skills, of course, can certainly be developed, but some folks are just unable to get them to a level that will satisfy their wants and needs.
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
I might have missed it but what scale locos?
Age of locos?
How do all six run?
How much current do they draw at 12 VDC?
Are they DCC ready or pre-DCC locos?
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.