Hi Guys
Haveing been to a few model railway exhibitions and seen a few on Utube.
The layouts fall loosely into two catogories model railroads and show layouts.
Its easy to tell the difference one looks like the layouts we aspire to.
The other one has clear differences meant to create an entertainment experience, and I have noticed that prototypical operating in the yard doesn't hold the public interest for long.
Why is it do you think the differences are so clearly marked.
What do you think should be on a show layout to hold the public interest, for more than 5 minutes.
regards John
John,
most people attending train shows like to watch trains run - not necessarily in a prototype fashion, more like a rail fan watching trains in a spectacular scenery. Only a true blooded aficionado will indulge in observing the local spotting a box car at the local industry for more than 20 seconds.
A typical show layout thus incorporates lots of action to be observed - be it trains, be it animated gadgets. To get a feel for that, take a look at the layouts displayed in the ONTRAX! model railroad show, held annually in the railroad museum in Utrecht/The Netherlands. You´ll find plenty of videos of this event on Youtube!
Sir mad dog got it right. At shows, it is about running trains and from what I have observed, that rivets and holds interest is a 100 car train snaking and threading its way along one of the giant modular layouts.
The other draw is the giant G and F layouts with super high scale giant and hyper-expensive engines and cars with fabulous DCC operation and their associated "big sound" and super lighting details.
Most folks who watch for 5 minutes or less are not real model rails.
Ultra boring, formal, real switching in yards or assembling trains or working a car into a siding will usually garner a 30 second glance and a quick move over to long trains running on another layout.
At shows it is about mindless loop running of long or specialized larger models moving about.
Richard
If I can't fix it, I can fix it so it can't be fixed
I agree with Ulrich. One thing at a train show I went to I kinda got a kick out of, they had real water in a small harbor scene. There was a "creature" (fake) under water, like a giant salamander. It was pretty well camoflaged, but a sharp eye would find it. That's a train show thing.
narrow gauge nuclearAt shows it is about mindless loop running of long or specialized larger models moving about
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
When I belonged to a club in Toledo, Ohio we built a modular trolley layout that was over 20' long and we could run 4 cars at a time using the Detroit System. Cars were always always running under wire, we had passing siding controlled by spring switches and over and under section and reverse loops all on 4'x2' modules.
We always had a crown around that layout especially with the one club members old Kemtron Toonerville Trolley with Micky at the helm. By the way always had four cars running to keep the onlookers interested.
Rick Jesionowski
Rule 1: This is my railroad.
Rule 2: I make the rules.
Rule 3: Illuminating discussion of prototype history, equipment and operating practices is always welcome, but in the event of visitor-perceived anacronisms, detail descrepancies or operating errors, consult RULE 1!
John BusbyWhat do you think should be on a show layout to hold the public interest, for more than 5 minutes.
One simple word ''animation''. Watching a 100 car train, most people will lose interest quickly...especially youngster's....but crossing gates and flashers and bridges going up & down, subways, starting and stopping any type of movement, rather than trains running around, same train...same scenery.
My opinion only!
Take Care!
Frank
Over the years I been doing open houses there's three things I found out that's contrary to popular belief.
The general public isn't all that interested in watching that 50 car coal train run laps at Mach speed.
They enjoy asking questions about the hobby/layout so,replace that frown with a warm smile.Don't boast or push your modeling ideals.. Give simple and realistic answers.
They do enjoy watching switching it seems to fascinate them more then anything. I have switch a yard during open houses and had a nice audience watching my every move-even one mother remarked to her child "Look,that's what Grandpa does when he's at work." I never will forget that comment..
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
I agree with the Animation Comment
Everyone loves to watch my coal tipple operate and the car puller work and the Tyco Cars dump the coal
What Brakie says is also true there are always lots of questions
How did you make the trees ?
What did you use for the water ?
How long did it take to build ?
etc~!
They really don't care if it's prototypical
Sometimes I don't even run trains
I just answer questions
My open house is next weekend
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fl2T_HLBnKk
TerryinTexas
See my Web Site Here
http://conewriversubdivision.yolasite.com/
My New layout for train shows is my version of chicago. In time it will be all decked out with all the cool stuff. After building it for less than a month before the show, alot of people liked it. Kids liked that the trains ran underground. The adults liked the direction it was going.
The layouts i take to shows, i make based on if i see them alot at shows. Kids tend to like overall giant cities or military. Parents like that the kids are interested in the layouts. Adults like the amount of details that you put on or how you change it from year to year. The worst thing to me to see at a show is the same layout with little detail year after year with no sign of anything new on it.
Having club members ready to answer questions is the most important aspect of an open house.
Many years ago my wife was a museum professional and she read an interesting study about the visitor experience. The study concluded that:
The typical museum visitor remembers the guide, not the exhibits.
Another useful approach was to have members of the senior curatorial staff take the public tours and listen to the questions that the guides were asked.
I think the lesson for us is that if we really want to know what works best for the public's enjoyment of the railroad, take off the engineer's cap and mingle with the visitors as they tour the layout.
One nice touch at a recent club show was to have each member wear a name tag.
Some time ago my local club appointed an official greeter as a means of making the public feel welcome.
Kevin
Hi,
I haven't been to a show in a number of years, but used to go to as many as I could. The layouts that caught my attention were typically large and creatively scenicked and "kept up". Having train(s) running around them was the icing on the cake - especially if they were pre 1960 types.
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
Since all the train show visitors are allowed to do is look, you'd better incorporate something entertaining in your layout to catch/keep their attention. Put a throttle in their hands and see just how interested they'd become in switching trains! One club at a recent show actually did that for a couple of hours, inviting kids to take a throttle (under supervision of course) and try running the trains. Not only did that club hook a number of future model railroaders but they got to see how truly interested visitors became in the operations instead of the "show."
Hornblower
I have not had a layout of my own for years. I also tend to shy away from Model Railroad clubs because most of the groups I have witnessed tend to be a lose conglomeration of members that barely tolerate each other. When I attend show and visit club layouts, I tend to look at the scenery. I like to see scenes that are very realistic. It doesn't matter if it is a countryside scene or a town block, if it looks realistic, I am hooked. I will check out the details and then wait for a train to come through to add to that scene. I grew up in rural western PA and we had two single track lines through town, the Pittsburg & Shawmut, and the Pennsylvania/Conrail/Redbank railroad. Double tracked (or more) layouts built in an oval with numerous trains whizzing by is unrealistic to me. I think this is why the single track Free-Mo set ups appeal to me more and more.
Robert H. Shilling II
My one gripe is that so few Ho modular layouts will run Steam engines. I like steam engines so to see diesels almost all the time is not to my liking.
All I own are steam engines, they are not that fragile to run on a modular layout. Yes some older steam like brass and some others should not be run all the time. I run the more modern steam from BLI and MTH when at any time be it the modular club or my home layout.
justinjhnsn3The worst thing to me to see at a show is the same layout with little detail year after year with no sign of anything new on it.
That and running the same locomotives pulling the same cars every year. They remember trains like a long coal drag,a autorack train or a stack train.
During the week of the county fair I switched between SCL and Family lines locomotives and switched cars out in the train consist on a daily bases..
A word that may not be to popular..Tone down the sound on your locomotives.. I have had people to ask me how I could put up with that sound all day? They're not impress with overly loud sound.
About those engineers hats..Ditch 'em and wear a regular ball type cap with your favorite road name. The public can identify with that.
I don't know how many American groups have operating-oriented exhibition layouts such as you often see in British and Japanese magazines. Often in those groups the members have no home layouts, so their layout is assembled at gatherings of such layouts and they shunt cars, make up trains, and do the things modelers do at true operating sessions.
More often in American, the club has a permanent layout for genuine operations, to which the public might or might not be invited, and a traveling display layout that is taken to trains shows and shopping mall events. Often those traveling display layouts have a degree of whimsy or "find the hobo village" aspect that they would never incorporate in their "real" layout. The train shows themselves might mix toy trains layouts, including toy train races, with scale modeling traveling display layouts, all cheek by jowel. At Trainfest in Milwaukee there are also guys doing on site clinics, demonstrations, special displays, and the like. The attention span of a visitor to any one layout is brief so the trains had better be running -- it would not do for the visitors to not see trains running, although at a prototype-based operating session trains might not run for considerable periods while the yards are busy or whatever.
And the American members likely have home layouts as well. So the traveling display layout in American often has no compelling need by a member to satisfy a desire to be operated in a serious prototypical manner. They go to the club for that, or have sessions at their home.
Dave Nelson
The average attention span is far, far less than 5 minutes, even for someone who enjoys what they are looking at. If there isnt something new or different to be seen every few minutes, you risk losing your audience. The key to keeping folks in front of your display, is having multiple points of focus, preferably active in a rotation every few minutes. The best displays I have seen take the show beyond the trains. Artwork on the facia, colorful club members/operators, sound effects, interesting signs, etc.
Think of it like this, half of your audience wont be really interested in your display. Spouses who are not railfans, children who don't know what they like yet, a friend who got dragged along because of the need for a ride, etc. These folks likely are not really interested in the craftsmanship or may not really like trains, but if you can keep their attention, you have a great display and may create a new member of the hobby.
A lot depends on the show and its size. Local club shows will certainly have more questions asked as one-on-one time is available due to a more limited audience. Shows with thousands in attendence is another matter. Layouts are bigger and more varied in nature scale, gauge, type, etc.
The trains usually run at 200+ mph are the O gauge lionels with 6 inch radius curves and S gauge American flyer. There are exceptions in O and S, but it is rare to see a high scale S or O modular layout even at a big show. Most large N and HO layouts are higher detailed scale and trains are typically run at more realistic speeds. All 100 car trains are typically N, but occasionally you might see a 50 car HO train.
One cool modular that I was most fascinated by at Timonium a couple of years ago was a true operating cantenary, trolly line. very realistic with a ton of overhead wire.
Few of these large modular layouts, (mostly diesel), get more than a glance from me as I am busy buying and searching out deals in the limited time I have at the largest of the shows.
narrow gauge nuclear Local club shows will certainly have more questions asked as one-on-one time is available due to a more limited audience.
There are exceptions such as public shows at fair grounds.. Every year the public walks through the club and some even make 2 trips around the layout and will stop and ask questions.
The toughest questions comes from teenagers asking about DCC.. I even removed the shell from a Athearn BB GP38-2 and showed the steps of adding a decoder. The kid wanted to install a decoder in his older BB GP38-2. Apparently he had a Bachmann DCC train set on a 4x8.
When I looked up there was 3 adults listening.
I've been to lots of railroad shows held at the Ohio State Fairgrounds and most of them will have large modular HO and N scale layouts and occasionally and S or O layout. They are all set up pretty much the same way. A lot of modules creating a continuous running oval. Double track on the HO and triple track on the N. They will have a large staging yard where trains get parked after taking a good long turn "on stage". Trains run in opposite directions and they are usually prototypical length on the N layout and nearly so on the HO. Not sure what limit they set on the number of laps each train runs but usually after a while one train will park and another take it's place. The modules usually are from clubs and it looks like they allow for some switching when the club has operating sessions but at the shows they pretty much just run trains.
Every year, I go to the Western Pennsylvania Model Railroad Museum to see what they've done since the last time I was there and to just watch the trains run on a pretty massive (40x100) layout. I listen to what people are talking about around me. Given that it models real locations, a lot of people are talking about how it reminds them of a place or that a scene looks like the real location or they'll start talking about some memory triggered by one of the locations.
For about twenty years I took part in five or six shows in High School gyms, arenas, etc.
My experience was that most people wanted to see trains rolling thru scenery.
Doing switching only worked if someone was there to answer questions, indeed half or more of mine time at show was spent standing outside our club layout, name tag on, looking I was interested in answering question (I was).
Tunnels impress all children, and many who recently learned to count enjoy counting train cars going by.
In my estimate, in small towns, three quarters of visitors to a show will not be model railroaders. Of the new to the hobby railroaders, if they are met in a friendly fashion some will join the local club. Be friendly, please.
Dave
What I have noticed at train shows is the layouts are too high for kids to see well. Holding a child up so they can see the trains becomes a real pain. Why doesn't someone put some steps in various places around the layout that the kids can stand on? Keep the kids interested for a few minutes lets the parents get interested.
Setting cars out on a siding and doing yard switching is only interesting if you are the one running the engine. It is really boring to watch.
With all the computer control, why do the trains just run in a continuous loops? A passenger train can't stop at a station while another train goes by in the other direction? A steam engine can't stop at a water tower? One train pulls into a siding so another train can pass on the same track? Why can't the trains slow down going through a town or at a grade crossing?
With radio controlled throttles, why don't the club members mix with the crowd and let the public run a small train? The last show I was at there were plenty of layouts with trains going in circles, and the club members sitting in the middle drinking coffee.
After just a couple of minutes, the constant blast of horns and whistles really gets annoying.
South Penn
Hi guys
Well thats one surprise. no one has mentioned my bug bear.
Which is when I look at a layout that was built by adults and the the first thing I think is "thats %$&^ work I can do better than that!!"
That really bothers me because it tells me builders are not taking the time to produce a quality exhibit
I am definatly not a Big name famous modeller but seeing a layout of a lesser quality than I can produce bugs me.
I don't care if its a work in progress but I want to see quality and care in it.
John BusbyThat really bothers me because it tells me builders are not taking the time to produce a quality exhibit
And one should take time to study the great outdoors. One of my gripes is seeing a beautiful waterfall that dumps into a farm pound with no where to go..Why not make a stream and have it to flow off layout instead?
The Appalachians is not the Rockies so,no need to make tall mountains... Nor is a mine over a railroad tunnel.
Take care in doing industrial areas and industrial scenes and remember for security reasons shipments is not left on the dock. None of the forklift drivers I worked with would sit a loaded pallet on the dock since it doubles your work. Once you grab on to it take the pallet(s) inside and sit it down in the receiving area so,it can be process.
In short pay attention to real life detail.
This spectacular module is often seen in New England as part of the Northeast N-Trak group:
There is always a crowd in front of it. The main lines from the adjacent modules run through, of course, but the other levels are also kept active by hidden loops behind the module.
My interest in my own layout is scenery, so when I go to shows I generally concentrate on those layouts which have the most effort put into them to set the "stage" for the trains to run through.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
SouthPennSouthPenn wrote the following post 12 hours ago: What I have noticed at train shows is the layouts are too high for kids to see well. Holding a child up so they can see the trains becomes a real pain. Why doesn't someone put some steps in various places around the layout that the kids can stand on? Keep the kids interested for a few minutes lets the parents get interested.
Several years ago I suggestted the same thing at a club I belonged to. Many of the memberss were afraid of legal liability if a child fell into the edge of the layout. I don't know if that concern is valid in Canada, let alone any place else in the world.
When taking my grandsons to a show, I used to take a rubber maid step stool for them to stand on. On one occasion a "lady" shoved them off because they wern't sharing with her daughter.
Just my nickle worth.