Ever since I can remember, every non-steam set I've seen has had some kind of Santa Fe Warbonnet F unit. Most of the time, they're not even passenger train sets - it's usually some kind of freight. I even had one of these as a kid, but it never got used (dad built the bench, put the ugly green painted sawdust paper down, and stopped). Bachmann has no less than 3 of these sets out at any one time, though I think mine was Tyco. Now I can't stand to look at them. Why is that particular locomotive/paint so done-to-death?
Julian
Modeling Pre-WP merger UP (1974-81)
I think you just described my first train set!
Anyway, I remember reading somewhere that in the days of steam locomotives, models painted for the New York Central were easily Lionel's biggest sellers. When diesels showed up on the scene, the grayscale paint scheme of the Central was quickly surpassed in popularity by the attractive red & silver of the Santa Fe. Sharp looking paint scheme on a popular line's locomotive. It just sells.
Mike
Who poked the bear?
Yes, the first HO trainset I bought had a red/silver ATSF F7 in it. Unfortunately it wouldn't budge so it was returned. While I am a D&RGW and SP died in wool fan, the red/silver ATSF warbonnet F7 is purty - most seem to agree. Move on.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
We had a red adn silver warbonnet set with passenger cars (Tyco), and my first HO train set was a blue and yellow warbonnet freight set (also Tyco).
WHy so many SF F units? They had the first production ones, plus it was a railroad known all over the country. And it sold. People living not anywhere near SF territory would buy a SF model, but how many people outside of say B&M territory would buy a B&M model? Kind of like Big Boys. They keep making more because people buy them. Pick some other large or unusual loco that only ran one one railroad and see how many of them sell - like the recent Yellowstones. They will sell, it's been a long awaited model, but they will never sell like Big Boys.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
When Lionel first made their F units, they made a deal with Santa Fe... You pay for the tooling, and we'll put your brand in every home in America (or something like that. A New York Central version was made for Eastern customers.
Dave
Just be glad you don't have to press "2" for English.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQ_ALEdDUB8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hqFS1GZL4s
http://s73.photobucket.com/user/steemtrayn/media/MovingcoalontheDCM.mp4.html?sort=3&o=27
Also remember that most train sets are sold to people who could not care less about prototype as we modelers think of it. They just want a sharp looking train. The Warbonnet serves well since Lionel thought this out many years ago. I suspect that sales numbers have supported this decision, too. If you're in the business of selling trains, that's the star you follow.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
I collect locomotives & rolling stock from Western Pennsylvania. But I also have an A & B unit of Sante Fe Warbonnet. I have it because (1) it was a fantastic paint scheme, (2) it brings back a lot of nice memories. After WWII I had an uncle stationed in Pittsburgh. Him & my aunt didn't have children, so they would pick me up for the weekend every so often. My uncle had a Sante Fe Warbonnet passenger train from Lionel & he would set it up in the living room & let me operate it. That was my 1st exposture to trains. Boy, I couldn't wait to go to their place. So in many ways, it remains my favorite classic train.
Tom
Pittsburgh, PA
fieryturboWhy is that particular locomotive/paint so done-to-death?
Why do all the fast food places keep making french fries?
I have the right to remain silent. By posting here I have given up that right and accept that anything I say can and will be used as evidence to critique me.
Santa Fe did have a large group of warboonet F-units classified as Dual Purpose, and the were use in either passenger service or freight service.
So it is correct to have them hauling froght trains as well as passenger trains.
GARRY
HEARTLAND DIVISION, CB&Q RR
EVERYWHERE LOST; WE HUSTLE OUR CABOOSE FOR YOU
Literally everyone knew what the Super Chief was. Like...literally everyone. Bugs Bunny makes Super Chief jokes. There was a good 25 years that that paint scheme had to be one of the most recognizable things in the country.
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
It is not a secret, they sell. Why are there remakes of the big boy, again they sell.
The nice colors sell... otherwise you'd see the market spammed with Clinchfield black F units.
carl425 fieryturbo Why is that particular locomotive/paint so done-to-death? Why do all the fast food places keep making french fries?
fieryturbo Why is that particular locomotive/paint so done-to-death?
Because no one would buy them if they were called pomme frites.
Andre
andrechapelonBecause no one would buy them if they were called pomme frites.
I would! Pomme frites! YUM!
My first engine was an Athearn PRR F7 (in Tuscan red and five stripes, no less!). I used to get into huge fights with a friend because he thought the Santa Fe was best, because otherwise "why would they make so many?", whereas anyone with a mind could see the Pennsy was the best. They happened long enough ago that the letters to the editor of MR contained rants about an article about the Plains, GA station by Gordy Odegard --my, where did the time go? Anyway, I agree that the warbonnet has been done to death, but it's widely available because it's flashy and sells well.
Why warbonnets? More colorful = more sales.
Look at historical pics and film. Most every freight car in the nation during the 1940's and 1950's was either brown or black. Now go look on people's layouts who are modeling that era. You will generally find that brown and black cars are in the minority, but you will probably find plenty of red, orange, yellow, blue, green or other colored cars in multiples.
The fact is that people like color. The ATSF warbonnet is, if nothing else, a colorful paint job. So therefore it sells.
Paul A. Cutler III
Never owned one, just like I have never owned a model of a Big Boy........
Sure, they are pretty, and they had a lot of them, and the paint scheme lasted a lot of years......unlike some railroads.
For a child or a novice, I can see the the attraction.......
But at this point, every F unit paint scheme in the history of railroading has likely been done at least once, so what is there to complain about? I'm only buying ones that say B&O, WM, C&O or are unlettered for my ATLANTIC CENTRAL - and I'm still buying F units.......
Sheldon
mlehmanmlehman wrote the following post 2 hours ago: andrechapelonBecause no one would buy them if they were called pomme frites. I would! Pomme frites! YUM!
Freedom Fries , anyone??
Paul3 Why warbonnets? More colorful = more sales. Look at historical pics and film. Most every freight car in the nation during the 1940's and 1950's was either brown or black. Now go look on people's layouts who are modeling that era. You will generally find that brown and black cars are in the minority, but you will probably find plenty of red, orange, yellow, blue, green or other colored cars in multiples. The fact is that people like color. The ATSF warbonnet is, if nothing else, a colorful paint job. So therefore it sells. Paul A. Cutler III
Actually, the colorful freight car thing started pretty quickly after WWII. And by my era, 1954 (sometimes streached a little to 1956), B&O Sentinel cars (blue and silver), NYC Pacemaker (red and gray), red-white-blue State of Maine, C&O bare alunimum hoppers and box cars, NKP silver box cars, and a long list of others were quite common.
Reefers generally always yellow or orange (with back or oxide ends/roof), covered hoppers (which exploded in use after WWII), mostly gray.
While they road mostly on black or oxide red flat cars, newly expanding piggyback services all had colorful highway vans - B&O, SP, Wabash, NKP, and more - just look at those paint schemes.
And most all first generation diesels had fancy color schemes.........
Now a string of coal hoppers, sure - black or some version of oxide red for the most part in any era.
But by the 60's, money and maintenace started to simplify color schemes again. Complex schemes on the B&O shifted to "dipped" dark blue, NYC to "dipped" green, N&W dipped black, and so on.
That's what makes the 50's so cool, steam and diesel, colorful freight cars, the last of the great passenger trains, steam locos pulling piggyback trains, steam and diesel lashed up on the same trains, and more.
mlehmanPomme frites! YUM!
The Warbonnet paint scheme is the most recognized locomotive paint scheme in the world. It sells.
South Penn.
PS: I have a Stewart/Kato Warbonnet A&B F units, both powered. They have been sitting in their boxes for over 20 years, never run.
Sheldon,While colorful cars were certainly around in the 40's-50's, they weren't the norm. My point is that if folks really wanted to model that era correctly, then most every boxcar on their layout should be brown, and just about every hopper or tank should be black. I'll even throw in that just about ever covered hopper should be gray, too. None of them had much color.
Yet, go to most anyone's transition era layout (or go to any hobby show) and look at the cars. There is a ton of freight car color on people's layouts, and there really shouldn't be that much if one wants to be accurate.
If you have the time, watch this NH vid:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5VwTFo7q-sThe era of the vid is 1954 to 1957-ish (you can tell by the pre-McGinnis and McGinnis paint schemes on the equipment). I've watched it, and there are some freight trains shown where every single car is brown. Sure, there's a few yellow reefers, but other than that...brown, brown, and more brown. But people don't want an all-brown train (or even a majority brown train), so they buy the attractive cars. The ones in red, green, orange, blue, etc. And I'm just as guilty, believe me.
Also, and I suspect this is a major reason, is because it's way cheaper to produce. There's no handrails to add on, so your shell is literally a single piece of plastic, as opposed to the minimum 5 piececs on a Wide Body or more contemporary diesel.
But I agree with the guess that Santa Fe just looks cool. Bright red and silver. So much nicer than black on grey or mint green ;)
Paul3 Sheldon,While colorful cars were certainly around in the 40's-50's, they weren't the norm. My point is that if folks really wanted to model that era correctly, then most every boxcar on their layout should be brown, and just about every hopper or tank should be black. I'll even throw in that just about ever covered hopper should be gray, too. None of them had much color. Yet, go to most anyone's transition era layout (or go to any hobby show) and look at the cars. There is a ton of freight car color on people's layouts, and there really shouldn't be that much if one wants to be accurate. If you have the time, watch this NH vid:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5VwTFo7q-sThe era of the vid is 1954 to 1957-ish (you can tell by the pre-McGinnis and McGinnis paint schemes on the equipment). I've watched it, and there are some freight trains shown where every single car is brown. Sure, there's a few yellow reefers, but other than that...brown, brown, and more brown. But people don't want an all-brown train (or even a majority brown train), so they buy the attractive cars. The ones in red, green, orange, blue, etc. And I'm just as guilty, believe me. Paul A. Cutler III
Paul,
Agreed, as a percentage most cars were those basic drab functional colors, black, oxide reds, and gray, with reefers being orange and yellow.
But prior to that era those colorful cars did not exist at all, so the 50's marked a big change in that way, a change that really only lasted for a decade, followed by a return to simple paint schemes, even if those new 60's schemes where in a wider range of colors, the eleborate multi color schemes of the 50's were just to much to maintain.
But they were fun while they lasted.
andrechapelonBecause no one would buy them if they were called pomme frites. Andre
I would simply because the ones I had while I was station in Germany was far better then their American counterparts
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
andrechapelon carl425 Why do all the fast food places keep making french fries Because no one would buy them if they were called pomme frites. Andre
carl425
Why do all the fast food places keep making french fries
Ah, someone from America on these forums has been to Germany, or at least Europe eh? I would not have ever heard that term before your post if I hadn't visited a McDonalds in Germany a few times.
Chips!!!! Very nice with tomato sauce, or a splash of malt vinegar and a sprinkle of salt to taste.
riogrande5761Ah, someone from America on these forums has been to Germany, or at least Europe eh?
Just for the record, the term "Pommes Frites" is French, although there is a fairly old debate as to whether the French or the Belgians (who also speak French) invented them.
I seem to recall that my first Athearn HO train set had a blue and yellow scheme SF diesel with several colorful freight cars (1965).
When I put the warbonnet and color question to my business school marketing major daughter, she said that the target market was the key- young boys accompanying their parents. The bright colors of the product attracted the eye first, and that was the intention- to have the product stand out among all other toys, etc.
This same concept led to the flashy chromed plastic versions seen in the 1970s- the red and yellow warbonnet front, followed by mirror-like chromed paint- not only flashy, but shiny and bright to boot!
Cedarwoodron
Malt vinegar - the proper topping for fries (chips) - and it also goes on the fish, too. Not tartar sauce.
White vinegar on fries is a custom from the Jersey Shore. Acceptable, but malt is better.