hello all ,been a while as a case of burn out got me , but after reading some older MR mags Jan,Feb,march, April 2015 , I must say I really enjoyed this project railroad "the red oak", it looks great and frankly a size I may be able to finish , time period and roadname our a plus for me and I love rural farm and grain elevators, BUT N scale ,really I was told N scale is fussy ,temper-mental, overpriced , poor running and lacking details.
that said , after the great project read and some further interest in N scale it seems that many of those negatives are NOT valid and has perked my interest and removed me from my burn 0ut .
I have made ALL the mistakes , started/build a HO railroad WAY to big for my first go , not really following a plan , picking a prototype NOT of my region or background. acquiring equipment LOCO/rolling stock/buildings with no rhyme or reason , just cause it looks good or is a great buy only to wake up and realize " where did I get all this stuff "
sooo now that I have sold off a lot of equipment (HO) and preparing more to go! BUT now I'M thinking of the "red oak" in N scale and most important AS PER plan , just to finish something , now I'm NOT going to tear out what I got or sell off what I really like in HO, just to taste N scale and to take on something that has a PLAN and a possibility of being finished , it looks to be possible with a reinvestment of about 1500.00 or less of the funds I have from my first sell off of over stock of HO.
HOW do others see " the red oak " , does it look to be a reasonably doable project ?
1500 seam like a fair price for rolling stock/loco/track/ structure as I have everything Else ?
well thats it and I must commend MR staff as this is the first project RR that has really stirred MY interest , others have been interesting to follow BUT this I GET .
who knows I may catch the N bug !
JERR
SP&S modeler, 1960's give or take a decade or two for some equipment.
http://www.youtube.com/user/SGTDUPREY?feature=guide
Gary DuPrey
N scale model railroader
I am not an N scaler but I have operated on some N scale layouts. My impression is that the equipment runs very reliably but that good track laying is definitely rewarded with smooth operation; poor track laying is appropriately punished, as are dirty track and inadequately wired track.
I think the Red Oak could be satisfying even with just one or two locomotives -- just one SW switcher for example -- until the bugs if any are worked out. There are always bugs.
I'd say, don't skimp on quality of track and careful wiring, and don't take shortcuts with benchwork such as it is for this layout. Scenery, structures, and rolling stock are all things that can be done over time (and done over, period). Your proposed budget sounds realistic, just remember that Rome was not built in a day and there is no need for you to build the Red Oak layout as quickly as our MR friends had to.
Dave Nelson
Welcome to N scale.
I'd have to say I'd echo Dave's advise. Good track and reliable operation is what it's all about, so take your time in this phase to get it right. The scenery and structures can wait (just in case you have to tear something out and rebuild).
You may want to put together an estimate on what you need. My wife jokes that my first layout (a 2'x4' coffee table layout) is actually the 2,000.00 coffee table. You might want to look at the walthers catalog (online or otherwise) and put together a list of track and roadbed costs. For engines I usually budget 100.00 for each, although that varies. For freight cars I usually budget 25.00 or so for each car, but again that can vary. Perhaps 2-3 engines and maybe 15 freight cars??? The Red Oak project has a list of buildings so if you wanted to you could check the catalog and get an idea on prices and go from there. Like all estimates (think of this as a scale model works project), it is bound to go up.... unless you're careful.
Jeff
Hi, for my N scale layout, I choose Kato unitrack based upon the N scale Salt Lake project done in MR sometime back. It's not as flexable as standard track, but it is really reliable and with the Kato powerpack, pretty well bullet-proof,at least for me. As for cost, I just put back a little each week so it's there when I need it. I was once asked how much money does it take to be in this hobby, I jokingly replied " all of it "! But once you get passed the start up it's not bad. I have always felt that in this hobby I have gotten more than moneys worth.
Ralph
I started out in HO and went to N scale over 20 years ago and have never regretted that decision. N scale locomotives and rolling stock run smoothly. Kato, Atlas and Athearn locomotives will start at a creep, accelerate and decelerate smoothly to a creep before stopping.
Rolling stock: Micro-Trains is one of the best. Trucks and couplers may need to be changed on the least expensive rolling stock. The less expensive rolling stock will run good after a tuneup. I also have Deluxe Innovations, Kato, Atlas, Con-Cor, Walthers, Intermountain Railway Co. & Roundhouse rolling stock. Most of the other brands have had Micro-Trains trucks and couplers added for smooth operation.
Then comes the argument on body mount and truck mount couplers. It is best to decide up front as to which you will use as mixing them will not work very well. I will stay out of this one.
The caution on track and wiring from the modelers replying to this post is very important.
The Model Railroader Staff did an excellent job of building a great small model railroad.
Note all model railroads can be expanded with additional modules at a later date if they are well built.
good info and food for thought but again I do have most of everything for dcc as i have two, 5amp & the 3amp starter (digitraxx) ,would need the decoder equipt locos or dcc ready and install self .
so I'm only figuring track ,and that being PECO per plan, is surprisingly expensive for size . loco/rolling stock again rolling stock seems a lil pricey for size ,and structures . everything Else I think I have on hand or I'm just not figuring.
so if my figure is off its got to be rolling stock as that I grossly missed on if 20- 25.00 per is an average .
BUT the interest is there , so im following along and I DO remember the "salt lake route" but it just didnt click with me back then,I will have to dig that bone up and have a nother look ...jerr
The two layouts are not really birds of a feather.
This year´s MR project layout "Red Oak" is designed for a more or less realistic operation, while "The Salt Lake Route" is more of a display layout for letting trains just run. Both are quite nice, each in its own way.
Kato offers a track pack for the Salt Lake Route layout - the street price is in the area of $ 700 - see here.
I just finished the benchwork for a small N layout. The staging yard featured on the Red Oak is fascinating, so I am going to incorporate a smaller version to fit on the 2x5 top that I built.
I am using Atlas code 55. I have enough flex track...I just need to get more turnouts.
As far as cost, I can't say. I just get what I can, when I can. Most of the time, I don't even want to know!
Chuck - Modeling in HO scale and anything narrow gauge
Most of all my cars I get off eBay under $25 (sometimes) $20.
So good strategy!
Amtrak America, 1971-Present.
I was doing some more pricing and found the N scale base decoaders (nce) are not a value as their equill in HO scale ,also could not find value 4 packs for N scale . ... but still alright . BUT now sound decoader for N scale , and I thought HO was a tite fit
I have always been a N scale modeler. The "Red Oak" layout looks quite good in my opinion. It has a number of features that model railroaders enjoy (continuous running, switching, operations, passenger and freight etc). Its size has the advantage of not taking up much space, is transportable, and fairly easily storable. I quite like the freight yard myself and it may be something I may look into fitting into my own N scale layout expansion. I think it is certainly a great layout for both the rookie and vet alike.
In terms of cost, N scale is really no different then any other scale in that the cost is relative to what the individual chooses to/able to spend (within reason of course). I personally wouldn't say N scale was overwhelmingly cheaper then its larger scale cousins. Perhaps fifteen or so years ago but not with todays advances in N scale items. Having said that, you have to admit that a Kato DCC installed N scale EMD F3 for $104 is still cheaper then an HO scale DCC ready F3 for $150 (pricing taken from a quick glance at the Model Train Stuff webpage). Again, not overwhelmingly cheaper but cheaper nonetheless (and those savings DO add up over the long haul of layout building). As others have posted $20-$30 for current (read: modern) rolling stock is about the norm. But keep in mind that what you are paying for is outstanding detail, very fine features, accurate and very prototypical for a small scale. Todays N scale is not the N scale of even a mere decade ago let alone twenty plus years ago. Locomotives are smooth, quiet, durable, reliable, excellent slow speed characteristics, and have exceptional details. Aftermarket items abound to super detail any locomotive or piece of rolling stock. Kato, Atlas, Rapido (the new company), Intermountain, Fox Valley are all fantastic manufacturers of N scale locomotives. The choices in N scale today are simply mind boggling!
Bottom line, choose N scale because its the scale you want and not for any possible cost savings. N scale is...or rather can be...slighty cheaper then the larger scales. It may not seem so while glancing at individual items, but over the course of the layout build the cost differential does begin to add up. But again its subjective to the individual modeler. If your (proverbial) heart isn't in N scale then it will possibly have an adverse affect on your enjoyment level.
Sorry for the long rambling post. I hope that it was of some help or at least thought provoking.
Happy modeling all!
Don
"Ladies and gentlemen, I have some good news and some bad news. The bad news is that both engines have failed, and we will be stuck here for some time. The good news is that you decided to take the train and not fly."
good overall answer Don , very informative ...
Oh almost forgot , looking at some Kato starter sets ,is the equipment in the sets ex. loco. and cars ,the same quality as buying them individually , looking at the "silver streak" from the article red oak project , these "silver streak" engine and cars are available individual OR engine/cars set OR engine/car /track/trans. starter set , is the equipment the same in all formats ?
thanks... Jerr
BIG JERR good overall answer Don , very informative ... Oh almost forgot , looking at some Kato starter sets ,is the equipment in the sets ex. loco. and cars ,the same quality as buying them individually , looking at the "silver streak" from the article red oak project , these "silver streak" engine and cars are available individual OR engine/cars set OR engine/car /track/trans. starter set , is the equipment the same in all formats ? thanks... Jerr
Yep, same stuff. Kato only makes one quality of N scale and its fantastic.
I was pricing up the track and turnouts at a popular supply and it comes to 465.00 for peco not counting ship but then it hit me ,the track list that is in the feb 2015 MR is short two left hand med #6 ,MR calls for 5, I count 7 so that takes it to 501.00 so its adding up fast ...Jerr
Big Jerr:
Yes, it CAN all add up fast! I don't want to think about how much my 14 locos alone cost, let alone the track to run them on,
I have been both with N scale and HO. I had O/O27 as a kid, N scale as a teen, and then a looooong break. When I decided to get back 'in' in 2006, I dug out my N scale stuff. It IS finicky, and can be difficult to work with... BUT THAT WAS THE OLD STUFF.
I also acquired some newer n scale stuff, and it was GREATLY improved.
I suggest you buy a little at a time, let it settle over time. Buy, say, $50 a month's worth until you have it all for the year. If that is too much, do $25 worth of track/month over two years.
That was how I did that with my HO scale for a small {very for HO scale} layout. It took me a while to accumulate what all I needed. i had always wnated an HO layout, but never had one, so I decided to leave N and go to HO.
I built my HO layout {5.1 foot x 3.5 foot}out of extruded foam over open frame of 1x2s 1 foot apart, surrounded by 1x4s for the outer region. It wasn't too expensive. Light and easy to move, too. Saw horses, carefully placed and maybe screwed temporarily to the layout can serve as the base legs for temporarily if need be, I used mounted 2x4s {braced on three lower sides with 1x2s}. Cost me about a whole $30 back then, I'd say $50 now.
Then you have to get at least a loop to run trains on if you start there with your track. Add a few switches and you are off and running.
I DID find the Bachmann N scale "EZ TRACK" to be a real pain, especially the switches, which never seemed to cooperate...so i'd STAY AWAY from THAT. i also found the more complicated the configuration of steamers {the more pilot wheels for instance} meant more difficulty with switches..even the Atlas switches. part of it may have been the 'snap switches". But if you are using diesels it won't matter.
I have two interconneceted ovals {through switches}, with a 4 spur "yard", and a 2 spur engine facility inside the the inner oval. That required 10 {I think without looking} switches, some remote and some cheaper at manual for the front switches I could reach at about $15 a pop for the cheaper manuals...I bought a few a month untill I had all I needed.
Then for scenery, I used the foam inclines/risers to vary the relatively flat terrain. They weren't so bad cost wise, but worth it. Stick to the 2% grade only if you use them{unless they say to use a higher grade{DOn'T ask me how I know!}
DOn't ask me how I know.
Scenery {the rest} can be as expensive or as cheap as you want.
Get a comprehensive list of equipment you'd like, and a list of equipment you will "accept" if what you really want becomes unavailable over time.
To get what you need, get the whole family involved....Give a B-day and a christmas list of what you want to family members...BE SPECIFIC to them or they will get any old thing they think "cute" in any scale it comes in! Give a copied off page with the item clearly circled and the price/phone number to order clearly marked on the page too! BE VERY CLEAR! Pick a price point they can afford, so you will get what you want.
ALso, try here for your track:
http://www.wholesaletrains.com/NProducts2.asp?Scale=N&Item=peco
They have weird shipping, and don't always tell you until the end...but oftenr that still saves over other dealers. I have the advantage that theirbrick and mortar store is an hour away form me. I am NOT associated with them in any way...
Here is another good dealer if you haven't been there already:
http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/N-Scale-Track-Roadbed-Accessories-s/1446.htm?searching=Y&sort=3&cat=1446&show=30&page=1&brand=Peco
BEST of LUCK to you!
PLAN, PLAN, PLAN again, THEN acquire...slowly!
-G .
Just my thoughts, ideas, opinions and experiences. Others may vary.
HO and N Scale.
After long and careful thought, they have convinced me. I have come to the conclusion that they are right. The aliens did it.