As a side note, sometimes it is the way they pack things! I recently got an item from ebay, Preiser figures, a whopping 1/2"x 5"x1" and it came in a 4"x6"x8" box and this is by far not the most the biggest box I have gotten for a small item.
A larger box happens for a lot of reasons, but it rarely contributes to additional postage, at least it shouldn't.
First, Priority Mail is one price up to a pound. You don't save anything by shorting on packing material to cut it substantially under a pound. More packing means greater likelihood that your stuff will arrive OK. A seller who errs on the side of caution here is much better than one who just plops the thing in a box to rattle around until it gets to you.
There may be discounts for those who qualify for smaller increments, but the pricing seems to be in one pound increments after the first pound for the postal calculator. As with the first pound, so long as it doesn't push the total weight into the next pound, it costs nothing more.
Often, a seller will have a few boxes to choose from and exact fit ain't gonna happen. Especially for small items, a somewhat bigger box that is well padded is the result.
In my experience MB Klein and others I've bought from are generous with the packing peanuts or other cushioning material. The item package is rarely designed for shipping strength except when boxed with multiples of the like at the factory. If there's nothing to cushion an item and it's closely packed, then it's crunch time if the outer carton is dinged. Lots of packing virtually eliminates this problem and makes for satisfied customers.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
mlehman Often, a seller will have a few boxes to choose from and exact fit ain't gonna happen. Especially for small items, a somewhat bigger box that is well padded is the result.
Waddya gonna do?
Rich
Alton Junction
Experience and observation goes a long way too. I live in the midwest and generally buy/sell midwestern/eastern/southeastern roadnames. The people who buy my roadnames generally do not live on the west coast. I rarely pay even $10 to ship one item, and usually add about $4 for each additional item packed into the same box. The buyers seem happy and that estimate pays my shipping costs.
The oddball west coast buyer usually buys the oddball western roadname I've picked up for some reason. That's the time I have to spend $15 on shipping.
- Douglas
richhotrainLarry, the problem here is that you are looking at it from a buyer's perspective, and I am trying to present the issue from a seller's perspective.
Rich,I have sold and shipped several models over the past 5 years..I know flat rate may not be popular with some sellers but,its a good option for anybody to use unless one is using inflated shipping in order to compensate some of their e-Bay/Paypal fees then of course its a bad choice to make.
To the point and I think you will agree..$12-15.00 to ship one engine or car is over the top since it can be shipped at a lower cost.
There's no way anybody can justify that high shipping cost unless the item being shipped by UPS or FEDEX which I will not use...
As far as private sellers no,I only use e-Bay stores since most private sellers has a as is/no return policies and high prices with higher shipping which is a turn off.
As a example $15.00 for a BB or Roundhouse car kit with $12.00 shipping? LOL..Noooo deal! If you think I'm pulling your leg grab your favorite refreshment and look over the prices plus shipping.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Hello All,
Here's another example of the shipping quandary...
I listed a "Mint In Box" MRC powerpack on eBay for $15.00. This item fit perfectly in a USPS Priority Mail, medium Flat Rate Box; shipping cost $12.65. I knew this shipping rate might scare some buyers off.
In my listing I offered alternate shipping. Because of the weight of this item the alternate shipping costs, depending on zip code, was between $25.00 to $35.00 in the exact same size box! I explained that the cheapest way to ship this item would be via Priority Mail Flat Rate Box.
There were quite a few views but in the end no one bought this item. I can't prove it but I suspect the shipping cost versus the cost of the item differential (which has been talked about) had a lot to do with this item not selling.
If I dropped the price on this item then the cost versus shipping becomes more skewed. If I raise the price of this item, to lower the cost to shipping rate, I'm over valuing this item.
Where my other analog items sold quickly; because the shipping costs were perceived as "reasonable" versus the asking price, this item is now just gathering dust.
Hope this helps.
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"
When I sell on Fleabay I use USPS Parcel Post based on weight which gives the buyer the best price for shipping, but alot of sellers, and I mean ALOT, prefer to use the Flat Rate boxes with prepaid labels, then its a simple drop off at the PO, no waiting in line.
But some sellers are either completely DILLUSIONAL or outright CROOKS! Charging 2 to 3 times normal shipping with "handling" fees, but every now and then comes along some joker who's shipping fee is so outrageous that beggers the mind. Recently one jokers shipping fee was $123 for an item I knew could be shipped for $15, when I inquired whether it was a typo or if it was being mailed from Antarctica, he tartly replied "Not Nice!"
Have fun with your trains
BRAKIEAs far as private sellers no,I only use e-Bay stores since most private sellers has a as is/no return policies and high prices with higher shipping which is a turn off.
Larry,
A transaction happens between a willing seller and a willing buyer. It's your privilege to shop where you're comfortable.
Not being a store, my stock is all pretty much one of a kind. I can't offer a replacement, because I don't have one. Ebay's protection policy still means that the buyer is guarateed the item is as described and I go to great effort to exactly state what it is I offer. That's another reason for my great care in packing things, as it must arrive unscathed.
On the other hand, as an individual seller I'm not here to serve the impulse buyer. While I know it's not you I'm talking about here, it is the case that people often can't decide what they want to spend their money on and this generates returns, because a return generates more money when you change your mind this week about money you already spent last week.
I say this to explain there are reasons other than a desire to cheat people for not offering returns. There's also the feedback score. Despite my policy, people who buy stuff I have to sell seem to get along OK with it. 100% seems like a low risk endeavor to me, but YMMV.
This all leads up to what people who use only the ebay stores might miss. You can generally find current and recent production items at these well enough. But my entrance to using ebay was to find relatively rare things I was having trouble finding any other way, rather than things that were essentially commodities.
My first purchase was a Jonan GE SP #1 HOn3 diesel. I had exhausted all my resources in trying to track down one of these after several years trying. Then I decided to take a chance on this new ebay thing. Sure enough, found one, in Australia. Never would have come across it without ebay and never would have bought it if I'd already written off private inidviduals.
You're just more likely to find such things with indivdiual sellers, although there are stores that specialize in new old stock (NOS) items. So this is something to consider, depending on what it is you're searching for.
mlehmanYou're just more likely to find such things with indivdiual sellers, although there are stores that specialize in new old stock (NOS) items. So this is something to consider, depending on what it is you're searching for.
I look for odd things and I have 2 stores that stock detail parts from Atlas and Athearn at reasonable prices-last month I stocked up on some Atlas detailing parts that can be used with any brand like horns,mu cables,antennas,sunshades etc.
You may recall I collect IPD short line boxcars and most e-Bay stores I visit turns up several (usually the ones I already have in my collection) but,I have found some including a Berlin Mills and a light blue Aberdeen & Rockfish 50' boxcar.Whoever painted and decaled that A&R car did a excellent job.IMHO $12.00 with free shipping was a steal.
A real oddity I found several years on e-Bay was a Manufacturers Railway SW1500(Athearn BB).I haven't seen one since.
I would not hesitate to buy from you,Rick and other forum members I grown trust over the years.
Even on line retailers such as Walthers , Trainworld ,Toy Train Heaven and Model Train Stuff charage shipping that does not vary that much wether you but one box car or six. Some times there is a lesser charge for small parts.They best thing to do is have a quanity of purchases to cut the per item cost of shipping.
Ebay is great to find older or rare and out of stock items that you might be willing to pay their shipping fee.But for new or commonly stocked items if you can't buy local the best bet is some of the online retailers.
Ron High
Ron High.But for new or commonly stocked items if you can't buy local the best bet is some of the online retailers.
Ron,I agree..I use three different on line stores as well as e-Bay stores and have no problems filling my needs.
However..
I really miss going to the LHS every Saturday morning even if it was nothing more then looking over the new stock and shooting the breeze and having coffee with modelers I've met during these Saturday morning pilgrimages...
If life could be as enjoyable as that again.
see stuff at: the Willoughby Line Site
As a buyer and seller on ebay of train related items. You get some folks trying to make a profit from the price to mail an item. But as others have said - it depends on the size/shape of the package. Look first at the shipping not the item price. Then make a decision.
I got stuff off Ebay you can't find anywhere else. I think that a lot of dealers/sellers know this and so Ebay is a good place to go. If you can find a bargain or a rare item you cannot source anywhere else - then why bother about the shipping price?
Just my 10 cents worth.
Chris.
Loco Guy - is a state of mind - not an affinity to locomotives.
Sit back and enjoy your track...
OK, got an update on the largish sounding discounts that Rich noted were available. It's been a month or so since I sold anything -- you can tell how big an operator on ebay I am -- so I was surprised when the heavier of the two items I had to ship showed up with what was listed as a "48% discount."
I entered the weight originally as 7 lbs. I tend to estimate higher these days to be sure I have packing weights covered. I do a rough weighing of the item and the most likely box it will go in to avoid any big surprises, but I don't otherwise prepack things. IIRC, you don't actually see a shipping cost as a seller, just the weight and dimensions.
The buyer used the calculated price to pay me for 7 lbs, but when I had it packed I was able to get it down to 5 lb, 5 oz, so I knew there was going to be a refund. I went to buy the label through ebay and paypal and was surprised to see that the shipping cost for the original 7 lb weight was listed as $22.80! But the buyer only paid $11.82, which was exactly what the calculated cost was for 7 lb. Nonetheless, the webpage bragged that this was a "48% discount."
And maybe it is if I had to walk into the PO and buy the postage. But since the buyer never saw or paid for a number so high, there was no opportunity to profit off of the difference, presuming I could have presented him with the "list price" and he had paid it. The ebay shipping calculator sure didn't do this.
Of course, I had no intention of doing such a thing, just wanted to note there's no obvious way here for a seller to take advantage and rake in the difference the discount seems to promise if I was greedy. It basically makes shipping more affordable for the buyer. I'm hestitant to promote the discount in my auctions, because that would create expectations shipping should be even cheaper than the displayed cost of the calculator.
And I have no control over the discount itself, which was demonstrated when I revised the label to reflect the lower shipped weight I was able to create. My 5 lb, 5 oz actual package weight would cost only $8.55 to ship. However, the discount went down to only 29%! Sure doesn't sound as good as a 48% discount, but since I wasn't pocketing any of the money it doesn't really matter. I went ahead and refunded the $3.27 differnce per my policy of doing that when the difference is a $1 or more between cost and what the buyer paid.
Thus, these may sound like deep discounts and they probably are vs street rates at the PO. However, they're unlikely to be a profit center for the seller unless they're better at chicanery with ebay than I can think of in the way this is implemented. At least buyers should know that they do get a discount.
mlehman The buyer used the calculated price to pay me for 7 lbs, but when I had it packed I was able to get it down to 5 lb, 5 oz, so I knew there was going to be a refund. I went to buy the label through ebay and paypal and was surprised to see that the shipping cost for the original 7 lb weight was listed as $22.80! But the buyer only paid $11.82, which was exactly what the calculated cost was for 7 lb. Nonetheless, the webpage bragged that this was a "48% discount."
If the buyer pays the invoice before you create the shipping label, or if the buyer pays for the item before an invoice is issued (this happens when the winning bidder immediately pays upon completion of the auction), he will be paying the higher, undiscounted, shipping charge.
Mike,7 pounds is a lot of model trains..
When I sell a engine or car I use a flate rate box for the best shipping price.
As I mention $15.00 for a BB or Roundhouse car kit with $12.00 shipping?
Nuts at best.I can ship that same car by using a flat rate box for 1/2 the cost.
=============================
Rich,I always wait for the sellers invoice before paying-some times I need to request a invoice for combined shipping.
I went back through my paperwork and found the data on four HO scale locomotives that I sold on eBay back in January. Here is that data:
Listed Actual Shipping
Shipping Shipping Discount
$15.99 $ 7.36 53.97%
$14.99 $10.81 27.89%
$ 9.99 $ 5.44 45.55%
$12.99 $ 5.84 55.04%
In every case, the buyer paid the listed shipping charge, and I refunded the difference.
richhotrainIf the buyer pays the invoice before you create the shipping label, or if the buyer pays for the item before an invoice is issued (this happens when the winning bidder immediately pays upon completion of the auction), he will be paying the higher, undiscounted, shipping charge. Rich
Which is why many sellers ask you to wait for an invoice prior to paying. It gives the seller time to calculate the correct rate.
Jim
BRAKIEMike,7 pounds is a lot of model trains.. When I sell a engine or car I use a flate rate box for the best shipping price.
In this particular case, it was one of the rare times I sold something not related to trains on Ebay. It was a set of wheel weights for an old Troy-Bilt tiller I sold several years ago. Now, how are wheel weights so light and still do you any good? They're plastic containers you can fill with sand or concrete, then they bolt to the wheel. Not sure if they're even made any more like this, so a discontinued item (they were an attic find when cleaning up there a few weeks ago.) They were relatively bulky for the weight nonetheless.
Why no flat rate box? Too large and odd shaped to fit into those, so no relief there. Besides, I think $8.55 is cheaper than all but the smallest flat rate box anyway, so I think the buyer got the best deal possible here. And there are a substantial number of model RR items that face the same problem. If all you buy are cars and locos in HO scale, then flat rate can save your some money, but once it doesn't fit into one of those, then you have to rely on the ingenuity of the seller to keep shipping low.
Certainly for a single car (maybe 2), not going flat rate can be even cheaper, because most would fall below the 1 lb threshold for the cheapest Priority Mail rate. I think the cheapest small flat rate box is 20 cents more than the 1 lb Priority Mail rate, for instance, at retail price without any discount. A loco would likely be more than a pound, so then you are money ahead with flat rate assuming it fits the small flat rate box.
Soo Line fan richhotrain If the buyer pays the invoice before you create the shipping label, or if the buyer pays for the item before an invoice is issued (this happens when the winning bidder immediately pays upon completion of the auction), he will be paying the higher, undiscounted, shipping charge. Rich Which is why many sellers ask you to wait for an invoice prior to paying. It gives the seller time to calculate the correct rate.
richhotrain If the buyer pays the invoice before you create the shipping label, or if the buyer pays for the item before an invoice is issued (this happens when the winning bidder immediately pays upon completion of the auction), he will be paying the higher, undiscounted, shipping charge. Rich
Rich,
The listed weight is your estimate I think. But I think even if you ended up with a package that did weigh that much, the buyer would still see a discount, only it would be for the higher weight. It might be a larger discount than at the smaller weight, if my experience of last night is an indication.
Now, you did end up shipping lighter than the estimate and a discount was given. But the discount would've been there anyway in some form I believe.
Where I think you really may be on to something is the wait until invoiced payer getting it. I typically just let the buyer have a few hours to decide whether to pay and they often do without invoicing. I have used invoicing as a reminder to pay after the first 12 hours or so. But if that's how the buyer actually get the discount, maybe I need to start automatically invoicing. I may experiment with that or look into it further. It's not obvious that's how this is happening to me or at least I've never seen anything that said words to that effect, but that wouldn't be the first time that's happened to me with the complexities of ebay.
richhotrain Jim wrote: "Which is why many sellers ask you to wait for an invoice prior to paying. It gives the seller time to calculate the correct rate." Exactly
Exactly
Well, maybe. All the calculating for the rate is done when I enter the auction. I may end up shipping cheaper than my estimate when things get packed, but there's no calculating on rates, just on weight. And as my experience yesterday shows, this may even lessen the discount that ebay offers because it was less for my example at the lower weight (48% vs 29%).
mlehman Rich, The listed weight is your estimate I think. But I think even if you ended up with a package that did weigh that much, the buyer would still see a discount, only it would be for the higher weight. It might be a larger discount than at the smaller weight, if my experience of last night is an indication. Now, you did end up shipping lighter than the estimate and a discount was given. But the discount would've been there anyway in some form I believe.
I will go back and add dollars signs.
mlehman All the calculating for the rate is done when I enter the auction. I may end up shipping cheaper than my estimate when things get packed, but there's no calculating on rates, just on weight. And as my experience yesterday shows, this may even lessen the discount that ebay offers because it was less for my example at the lower weight (48% vs 29%).
All the calculating for the rate is done when I enter the auction. I may end up shipping cheaper than my estimate when things get packed, but there's no calculating on rates, just on weight. And as my experience yesterday shows, this may even lessen the discount that ebay offers because it was less for my example at the lower weight (48% vs 29%).
richhotrainMike, those are dollar amounts, not weights. I will go back and add dollars signs. Rich
OK, then you're NOT using the postal calculator, but manually estimating the cost?
That could certainly be a place where there is room for those who wanted to make money on shipping to put their finger on the scale. Not that you are at all, just that I can see where that could happen with that approach to things.
mlehman richhotrain Mike, those are dollar amounts, not weights. I will go back and add dollars signs. Rich
richhotrain Mike, those are dollar amounts, not weights. I will go back and add dollars signs. Rich
LOL Just kidding.
No, I am not estimating the cost. I am using the ebay shipping calculator, selecting UPSP Economy shipping. But the shipping charge that eBay calculates based upon the dimensions and weight that I enter is higher than the final discounted shipping charge billed to me as seller by PayPal.
[stupid quote thingy not working again...need to upgrade my box, I guess]
Rich wrote:
arrrrggghh, this is getting frustrating. When you use the automatic calculator provided by eBay, it does ask for the dimensions and weight of the box to provide its stated shipping charge which will vary by zip code. But, the stated shipping charge will not necessarily be the final shipping charge billed to the seller by PayPal. It will be discounted by as much as 53%, but that discount will not be known with certainty until the seller prepares the eBay shipping label.
Thanks everyone this has been very enlightening discussion. Amazing the amount of details in such a subject. I certainly understand the condition better. I seem to be hearing that there may be a few crooks out there but mostly it is an issue with the whole system. It seems to have improved from the past but could still use some refinement.
Thanks YGW
yougottawantaI seem to be hearing that there may be a few crooks out there but mostly it is an issue with the whole system.
Yeah, I think that sums it up well. The seller has some limited control over shipping. More often, when they make an error, it'll result in them not charging enough for shipping and having to eat the extra charges. As a seller, you can't bump things up after the fact if your estimates and weights are off.
About the only way someone can take advantage of a buyer is to not print the postage cost on the label. But the weight will be there and the labeling is set up so there's no way to charge more than the standard quoted stret price from the PO.* The discounting can help reduce that and someone could pocket the difference and the buyer may not notice that if the price isn't printed on the label. In my mind, that just hurts you as a seller. Sure, you may already have the guy's money if they somehow didn't get a discounted price on shipping, but your feedback is far more likely to be appreciative if you send them back a couple of bucks than put it in your own pocket.
There is a line where one can add a handling charge over and above actual shipping cost. However, I believe that's obvious to the bidder and can't be hidden, so that should be a red flag unless justified. One case where that could legitimately apply with model RR is shipping flextrack, where a tube might need to be purchased since boxes can be iffy if long and thin.
The key for bidder/buyers is to look at the S&H breakdown and get an estimated shipping charge before you bid to avoid irritating surprises.
* A seller could inflate the actual weight and charge you for more weight than they shipped, but they'd still have to pay the PO for it. If they were trying to shave off the discount, yeah, this might gain them a bit more. But it could also expose them to easy discovery, since the buyer could weigh the package and find it weighs 2 pounds less then the stated postage paid on it, for example. Thing is, that might just constitute postal fraud and it's generally a losing battle to poke sticks in the eyes of Uncle Sam. It could more easily get you negative feedback or even being kicked off ebay if someone found this and filed a complaint about it.
mlehman About the only way someone can take advantage of a buyer is to not print the postage cost on the label.
About the only way someone can take advantage of a buyer is to not print the postage cost on the label.