As far as using sales of new locos as a measurement.....
Keep in mind that almost all brand new locomotives being advertised today that have the capability of running on a DCC layout right out of the box also have onboard sound. Very few producers make locomotives with a simple DCC decoder installed at the factory.
Its either DCC/Sound or DCC Ready (DC).
As far as using sales of DCC ready locos as a unit of measure, maybe a better way to ask is, "How many new buyers buy a DCC Ready locomotive with the intention of putting a decoder in it". Maybe its 75%..maybe its 25%.
Personally, I buy DCC/sound locos because I enjoy some aspects of onboard sound. All DCC ready or even nondcc ready locos that I buy are for the intention of running them with DC.
- Douglas
Hi!
Don't you just love these polarizing threads? Usually one can just look at the title and know that "this just ain't gonna end well".......
Anyway, the original question - "what is the percentage of DC and DCC users" - is impossible to answer, although we can throw out our guesses and preferences. And in doing so give out our reasons for our choices, and perhaps throw in a barb or two about the system we don't use.
But in the end, what difference does it make what others are using?
Is this hobby about running trains and building layouts and such, or is it about the way we power our locos?
And, why on earth would anyone give a hoot about what kind of system (or anything else) another MR is using?
I realize its summer, and many of the layouts are idle, but surely there is enough material out there for some truly creative and positive and helping hand threads.
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
I am dc wireless for now, Train Engineer. Got the stuff to go dead rail, again Train Engineer but am looking at the new stuff coming out from Bachmann for dead rail run by Bluerail Trains which is dead rail compatable or can be run off the rails.
carl425 ATLANTIC CENTRAL But still, there is along history on here of DCC users trying to "save" DC users from their "backward" ways. Be fair Sheldon. It's not all that clear about who was provoked and who did the provoking in that thread. The first "I like DCC because..." post only came after several "DCC sucks" posts. Remember that this is for the most part an open forum and all members can comment in any thread. Not long ago I starged a thread with a specific question about gluing track to the roadbed and got a lengthly arguement in favor of nails. Anybody can start a thread, but once started, you have no control over where it goes.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL But still, there is along history on here of DCC users trying to "save" DC users from their "backward" ways.
Be fair Sheldon. It's not all that clear about who was provoked and who did the provoking in that thread. The first "I like DCC because..." post only came after several "DCC sucks" posts.
Remember that this is for the most part an open forum and all members can comment in any thread. Not long ago I starged a thread with a specific question about gluing track to the roadbed and got a lengthly arguement in favor of nails. Anybody can start a thread, but once started, you have no control over where it goes.
Agreed, I was just pointing out why it seems to remain a hot topic on here.
I glue my track too - with Poly Seam Seal adheasive caulk.
"DCC sucks" might be a strong interpration of the few anti DCC comments I read. most simply said they did not like programing and such. And yes, I still think most all the wireless handheld throttles in DCC are poorly designed.
Yes it is an open forum, to limits of the moderators, but for years on here, questions about DC were answered with comments like "switch to DC and you won't have that problem".
Sheldon
I have both DC and DCC and will until I get decoders in almost all of my locomotives.
The DC power pack and DCC base station sit near each other, and I can select one or the other with a DPDT switch on the fascia.
George In Midcoast Maine, 'bout halfway up the Rockland branch
ATLANTIC CENTRALBut still, there is along history on here of DCC users trying to "save" DC users from their "backward" ways.
I have the right to remain silent. By posting here I have given up that right and accept that anything I say can and will be used as evidence to critique me.
Carl425 - Germans and US folks seem to be much alike in this respect. I probably spent too much time on the "Big Island" (United Kingdom) where bragging is not so common. People are proud oft their old car giving them still a good service, while in my country they´d be ashamed of not being able to afford a new one.
Back to be a little more OT. Each systems has its merits, but also drawbacks. The choice should be based on one´s needs and/or preferences, not because the neighbor has got it. I think Sheldon shows it quite aptly - he stays with DC (and CTC) because it fulfills his operational needs. I operate my micro layout on DC for the moment, but it´ll be converted to DCC as soon as I have regained the control of my left hand.
Sir Madog This issue pops up a couple of times each year and the answer given look pretty much the same each time around. I also visit other forums, German forums as well as quite a number of British forums. The question of DC and/or DCC is hardly ever raised there. As it seems, the question which type of control system one uses, is of lesser importance there.
This issue pops up a couple of times each year and the answer given look pretty much the same each time around.
I also visit other forums, German forums as well as quite a number of British forums. The question of DC and/or DCC is hardly ever raised there. As it seems, the question which type of control system one uses, is of lesser importance there.
The fact that this topic comes up on this forum, or, that it sparks such interest, may be directly related to the fact that years ago on this forum, myself and others where "vilified" and disparaged for talking about DC as thought it still had a place in the serious side of the hobby.
Still to this day, for example, if you look at the other recent thread on this topic which asked the specific question "who uses DC", two things were interesting in the responses.
One, we heard from people who seldom post much, and who otherwise don't talk about the fact that they use DC.
Two, we still had a few "I use DCC because....". Admittedly those responses were few and generally polite - unlike years ago. But still, there is along history on here of DCC users trying to "save" DC users from their "backward" ways. That is sure to have a backlash.
Madog,
What you have observed is the nature of American consumerism. In most hobbies in this country, collecting and talking about the gear is as much a part of the hobby as the activity itself.
What size/resolution TV your watching and how many channels of surround sound you have is as important as whether you're watching Casablanca or Jackass.
How fast your boat will run is as important as how many fish you catch.
Which alloy the head of your driver is made of is more important than your golf swing.
The sound of the pipes on the Harley is more important than where you ride.
...this list could go on forever
Welcome to America.
Sir Madog I don´t think there is any secure data available that would answer the OP´s question sufficiently. The only statement seeming to be secure is that the vast majority of HO scale and N scale model railroaders either use DCC or DC, all other systems like DCS, 3-rail AC , Dead Rail and steam being "condemned" to a niche role. Yes, there are HO scale live steam locos... I have yet to see a live Diesel loco, though. European manufacturers have long responded to this, marketing their locos either as DCC ready (meaning equipped with a standardized socket to plug in a decoder) or DCC equipped (with or w/o sound). Only Marklin continues to insist on its proprietary mfx system, based on the old Motorola format. Anyway, what´s the value in knowing the share of DCC users?
I don´t think there is any secure data available that would answer the OP´s question sufficiently. The only statement seeming to be secure is that the vast majority of HO scale and N scale model railroaders either use DCC or DC, all other systems like DCS, 3-rail AC , Dead Rail and steam being "condemned" to a niche role. Yes, there are HO scale live steam locos... I have yet to see a live Diesel loco, though.
European manufacturers have long responded to this, marketing their locos either as DCC ready (meaning equipped with a standardized socket to plug in a decoder) or DCC equipped (with or w/o sound).
Only Marklin continues to insist on its proprietary mfx system, based on the old Motorola format.
Anyway, what´s the value in knowing the share of DCC users?
Secure data - agreed, but every informal poll on this forum in the last five years has suggested something close to my 50/50 ratio between DC and DCC in HO and N.
And I find it interesting how many simply exclude the other scales from this discussion as if those other scales "don't count" as model railroading.
And a number of dealers I know personally, here in the US, indicate they still have strong DC customer bases.
I think the info in my earlier post is pretty spot on about why and how DC modelers have "adapted" to the products being offered. So what is being sold has little correlation to how people are running their trains.
CSX RobertIf you are running your DCC locos with a Tech 6 in "dual mode", then you are running them on DCC, not DC.
The T-6 dual mode is for DCC operation as you say.The "Std" button is for plain DC operation even though you can still set start voltage,brake and momentum for DC engines..
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
DAVID FORTNEY I buy DCC locomotives now but Run DC. I have a bunch of earlier locomotives that are just DC but I love the sound and smoke of items made today.
I buy DCC locomotives now but Run DC. I have a bunch of earlier locomotives that are just DC but I love the sound and smoke of items made today.
If you are running your DCC locos with a Tech 6 in "dual mode", then you are running them on DCC, not DC.
IRONROOSTEREach system has it's different strengths and weaknesses. Just use whichever one best meets your needs. Enjoy Paul
I couldn't agree more and for me its a MRC Tech 6..The T-6 allows me to run DCC,DCC/Sound or my older DC locomotives on my ISL by a simple push of a button..
Dan:
Where is the controversy in the question that the OP asked?
I don't recall him saying that one was right and the other was wrong. He just asked a simple question about percentages.
Sorry, I mean no offense. I just don't think its fair to the OP to read more into his question than what he asked.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
IRONROOSTER I'm not sure why there seems to be so much concern over this topic. Each system has it's different strengths and weaknesses. Just use whichever one best meets your needs.
I'm not sure why there seems to be so much concern over this topic. Each system has it's different strengths and weaknesses. Just use whichever one best meets your needs.
What he said... I couldn't agree more. I have no idea why this is such an enduring controversial topic in this hobby (or maybe it's just this forum?).
(P.S. - whatever happened to that "ditto" smiley? )
Dan Stokes
My other car is a tunnel motor
Well, as I've noted on other threads, I use different ones. My main scale is S and that is DCC. But I use AC with my Lionels. When I set up and run HO or Sn2 I use DC although some HO is dual mode decoders. My O scale stuff is DC. My MTH O gauge diesel has a decoder that runs on AC, DC, DCC, and DCS - I've run it on AC and DCC. My On30 stuff is DCC maybe dual mode since it is Bachmann.
Enjoy
Paul
I can't answer the OP's question but for me it's DCC all the way. I use the Lenz system with Lenz decoders and I love it. No sound though; I can't stand the constant noise which really starts to irritate me after a short period of time. The normal sound of the locomotive drive assemblies and wheels on rails is enough for me. I model HO scale.
DCC (Digitrax) here on my N scale layout. Though I'm a relative late-bloomer (DCC-ing since 2013).
I use DC for now but planning on DCC.
I'm getting an BLI E8 Amtrak Phase I A/B set, and four Atlas Conrail locomotives in DCC.
I hadn't bought a DCC system yet. When I do I'm going to convert some Kato F40phs to DCC.
Amtrak America, 1971-Present.
SP&S modeler, 1960's give or take a decade or two for some equipment.
http://www.youtube.com/user/SGTDUPREY?feature=guide
Gary DuPrey
N scale model railroader
hon30critter My HO stuff is DCC but my HOn30 stuff is DC. . Dave
My HO stuff is DCC but my HOn30 stuff is DC. .
This is how I want to do dc.
T e d
I'm straddling the great divide!
My HO stuff is DCC but my HOn30 stuff is DC. If there was space to install a decoder in my HOn30 critters then I would definately do it.
Theoretically, a decoder could be mounted in a following car, but the locomotives already have a gondola permanently affixed which contains the motor. (You can see one of the critters in my avatar.) That's because I used Bachmann N scale 4-4-0s as the drive units. I think the biggest problem with adding a third car with a decoder would be the amount of wiring that would have to run between each of the cars plus the locomotive. The wiring would have to be very flexible in order to keep the cars from derailing on the curves.
Maybe some day I will give it a try, but the HOn30 part of the layout is so simple that DCC is hardly worth the effort. The only benefit would be the ability to add sound.
dstarr You could get a rough idea by going thru a recent edition of Model Railroader and counting up the number of ads for DCC equipped locomotives vs the number of ads for plain DC locomotives.
You could get a rough idea by going thru a recent edition of Model Railroader and counting up the number of ads for DCC equipped locomotives vs the number of ads for plain DC locomotives.
That has no bearing on what control system people are using. Why you ask?
Many who are still using DC have most or all of the locos they need/want - they are no longer heavy loco buyers.
New people in the hobby are likely to go DCC for a number of reasons - new people have not yet accumulated a loco roster, and are therefor the target of current offerings.
Many non sound DCC locos are easily back converted to DC, and the prices are low enough that a DC modeler would not be opposed to buying it and removing the decoder. For some 15-20 years now Bachmann has sold non sound DCC equiped locos and included jumpers to remove the decoder and return them to straight DC.
So we have no way to know how many DCC locos have been purchased by DC users.
Not to mention the fact that nearly every DCC equiped loco is dual mode - works on DC - even if performance is not perfect.
So again, DC users who are still in the loco market are simply buying DCC locos and running them on the dual mode decoders or removing the decoders.
Sound - there is a reasonable following of those using the MRC Tech6 or even straight DC, but who are buying sound equiped dual mode decoder DCC locos.
And, even a few crazy people like me, who if they get the right deal, buy a sound equiped loco like a BLI Pacific and remove the sound decoder - or in my case - replace the tender completely with a non DCC tender.
I have a roster of about 130 locos. Easily 1/3 of them came with decoders, five came with sound. They all are straight DC now. Basic Bachmann decoders sell rather well on Ebay.
Based on the many DC/DCC conversations on this forum since I have been here, and other people I know, including some shop owners, I would guess that in HO and N scale it is roughly 50/50, with a slight edge to DCC as new people enter the hobby.
I am inclined to think that most who have not switched by now never will.
In other scales, DCC is without question a very small percentage.
Direct radio/battery power dominates large scale and is making headway into the smaller scales. O scale has two proprietary systems for high rail in addition to both straight DC and original AC. Two rail O scale and S scale may well have a strong DCC following, but they are very small groups compared to the whole of model trains.
If we could count everyone with a fixed layout or regularly active in a club or modular group, in every scale, I would be surprised if DCC useage was more than 40% total.
I still run DC, and while direct radio with or without dead rail is interesting, I don't see it as worth the time or trouble for my modeling goals.
Now if my modeling goals changed, or I changed scales, I might be all in for something new.
PS - I consider wireless throttles, even with a trackside base station, to be a much more "necessary" feature than the general features of DCC. I use wireless radio throttles on an advanced cab control DC system with signaling and CTC.
Converted to DCC ~2008. Switched from Digitrax to NCE in 2015.
South Penn
I had a version of dead rail back in the early 1950s - 1:192 scale powered by the 0-5-0...
As for percentages, it might be somewhat age specific. Kids get train sets which are almost certain to be DC. Somewhere around the second month of paid employment they might venture into DCC if they haven't shelved the hobby.
Trains with the kids or empty-nest returnees are probably majority DCC players.
Some analog DC holdouts have large rosters of 'not ready for DCC' locomotives and have learned to do tricks with cheap resistors and diodes that need dedicated black boxes to accomplish in DCC. Some may go to DCC if they ever have to start a new layout from the ground up. Some are perfectly content and see no advantage to making a change. Many such people are retired, or of an age where retirement is an option.
So, where do I fall? Read my signature.
Chuck (Retiree modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - analog DC, MZL)
Can you do both? Or is it one or the other?
I use Dcc. For now.