It would be good to get some data on this..our club has added DCC (Digitrax) to all our layouts since about 2002. We still maintain DC capabilities since all of us have oldies but goodies with DC motors. However, almost all of us have no compunctions about running DC engines with the stretch zero. So for about 30 modelers here we are all into DCC to one degree or another.
tomikawaTT Are any of those others, by chance, clockwork (aka windup.)
Are any of those others, by chance, clockwork (aka windup.)
We didn't ask respondents to specify what their "other" was. I suppose it's possible. It could also mean a static display. I've even seen a sub-Z-scale layout on which a maglev train carved from balsa wood was propelled around a track by air jets blown through angled holes drilled in the roadbed. So, "other" could be almost anything.
--Steven Otte, Model Railroader senior associate editorsotte@kalmbach.com
carl425 Can we see the rest?
Can we see the rest?
The rest of what? The rest of the questions? I'm afraid not. The others ask readers to rate articles and departments in the magazine issue. They're intended for internal consumption, to help us shape future article choices. The DCC question was asked merely to put in context the answers about the department DCC Corner.
tomikawaTT Steve, Are any of those others, by chance, clockwork (aka windup.) This inquiring mind recalls that as being a popular choice for garden railways in a couple of British model mags I bought in London 58 years ago... Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - analog DC, MZL)
Steve,
This inquiring mind recalls that as being a popular choice for garden railways in a couple of British model mags I bought in London 58 years ago...
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - analog DC, MZL)
I read where some of those old guys could wind the locomotive so it would stop right at the next station. A lost skill for sure.
Enjoy
Paul
Steven OtteWe asked this question recently as part of our reader survey
I have the right to remain silent. By posting here I have given up that right and accept that anything I say can and will be used as evidence to critique me.
Thanks, Steven, for posting those results. Personally, I found those results credible, from everything that I have read and experienced in dealing with other modelers.
Rich
Alton Junction
We asked this question recently as part of our reader survey, which goes out monthly to a portion of subscribers to our e-mailed newsletter. Though only 130 people responded, the results were pretty much the same as they've been when we asked the same question previously.
Answer Choices Percentage No. Respondents
Digital Command Control 56.92% 74Direct Current 33.85% 44Radio Control (not DCC) 1.54% 2Alternating Current 3.85% 5Other 3.85% 5Total 130
There's your answer.
"I yam what I yam!" (Popeye)
So I'm not even going to mention what I am (having already done so.) Instead, I'm going to hark back to the (not so) thrilling days of yesteryear (ca. 2006-8) when a few users, having drunk deeply at the well of DCC, approached discussions such as this with the attitude of evangelists castigating unbelievers. Both Sheldon and I were told, bluntly, "Change to DCC and you'll be saved." Not one of those people had any idea what features the MZL system has, what kind of layout we each had or what kind of operation we wished to pursue. It was simply, "DCC or eternal damnation to the fires of a coal-burning locomotive." The concept that one size does not fit all (which I have typed at least a hundred times in various posts) simply did not register with the folks in question.
So, what system should a modeler use? The one that best fits his or her requirements and bank balance. No one size can possibly fit all.
As for how many people use what, this professional statistician lists that under "Insufficient data, and of no practical use if known." How many Argentinian Gauchos still use bolas is about equally interesting.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - a size which fits me)
Yeah, that last discussion about DC vs DCC went way out of control. Everyone should be able to present their opinion without it getting taken out of context and whacked over the head.
I use Elmer's white glue to secure my track to cork. It dries transparently. I have noticed that the newer N track has no holes, thus using glue satisfies my need.
I will remain DC because it is convenient for me as I have a huge layout and lots of locomotives on DC. I also am saving for eventual retirement and have no need or desire to spend what could easily be four figures on DCC.
My opinions.
Ted
Well, I figured this thread would have died on its own by now, or been euthanized by those in charge. While I did put in my ten cents earlier, and the thread is still wallowing around, may I add.......
This forum is filled with folks that will go overboard in helping out others with questions and problem situations. And most are content with the fact that others prefer a different operating system, or scale, or prototype, or weathering or goodness knows what all. They respect that others have chosen and realize it is what they want and prefer.
But every week or two someone appears who seems determined in creating unrest and promoting disagreements over the various alternatives. I don't understand that mindset, although sometimes I think they are seeking validation for the selections they have made.
You know, I wish that we could just ignore the temptation to "set things straight", and let these threads die a lonely and ignored death.
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
CHARLES STEINMETZ richhotrain CHARLES STEINMETZ I still see threads and comments from modelers that are still DC only. It got me thinking. What percent of modelers are still using DC vs DCC or other operating systems? Since you are a dead rail enthusiast, you shouldn't be offended when I ask, who cares? I use DCC but it matters not at all to me how many modelers use DC or DCC. Rich richhotrain CHARLES STEINMETZ I still see threads and comments from modelers that are still DC only. It got me thinking. What percent of modelers are still using DC vs DCC or other operating systems? Since you are a dead rail enthusiast, you shouldn't be offended when I ask, who cares? I use DCC but it matters not at all to me how many modelers use DC or DCC. Rich I am new to this forum (Not new to modeling) and have been trying to participate. Most forums that i subscribe to have people that are willing to answer questions and help modelers. I detect a certain undertone of nastiness here, at least on this thread. (Not everyone, just a few) I also see that most people here are into HO. I am not an HO modeler. Tough crowd
richhotrain CHARLES STEINMETZ I still see threads and comments from modelers that are still DC only. It got me thinking. What percent of modelers are still using DC vs DCC or other operating systems? Since you are a dead rail enthusiast, you shouldn't be offended when I ask, who cares? I use DCC but it matters not at all to me how many modelers use DC or DCC. Rich
CHARLES STEINMETZ I still see threads and comments from modelers that are still DC only. It got me thinking. What percent of modelers are still using DC vs DCC or other operating systems?
I still see threads and comments from modelers that are still DC only. It got me thinking.
What percent of modelers are still using DC vs DCC or other operating systems?
Since you are a dead rail enthusiast, you shouldn't be offended when I ask, who cares?
I use DCC but it matters not at all to me how many modelers use DC or DCC.
I am new to this forum (Not new to modeling) and have been trying to participate.
Most forums that i subscribe to have people that are willing to answer questions and help modelers.
I detect a certain undertone of nastiness here, at least on this thread. (Not everyone, just a few)
I also see that most people here are into HO. I am not an HO modeler.
Tough crowd
Pete,
Yes it can be a tough crowd on here, and yes it is mostly HO.
If I modeled in a larger scale, I would be all in for dead rail.
But I don't, so I'm not.
I'm not real interested in anything that involves squeezing more hardware into my 130 locomotives.
And I am one of those double track, 6-8 trains moving at once, signaling and CTC, stand back and see the big picture kind of modelers.
I know a few On30 guys, neat stuff but not my thing.
So I am still DC, with Aristo Train Engineer radio throttles, connected to a very complex adavanced cab control system that intergrates turnout control, signaling, power distribution, CTC, working interlockings, and even Automatic Train Control into one system.
Not likely what you need for On30.
And DCC would cost me a furtune, add only a few unimportatant features, and not reduce wiring by one inch.
I'm not into sound in small scales - it all sounds a like the static on a nine transistor radio to me.
In large scale - that's a different story - and a different relationship between the viewer/operator and the model. When I want that close up railroading experiance, I don't do it with models. I just get in the car and drive less than an hour to Strasburg PA were I can watch real steam up close all day long.
I have taken a lot heat on this forum by being a "defender" of advanced DC systems. It has finially gotten to where these threads are not an all out flame war.
To take hart, you had no idea what you were getting into.
Sheldon
Pete, in my initial reply to your thread, I was careful to point out that I was not trying to offend you by asking, who cares, particularly since you have acknowledged that you are into dead rail, not DC nor DCC.
Moreover, the topic of DC vs. DCC has more than been beaten to death on this forum and even the forum administrator has threatened to turn such threads into Sticky threads.
My second reply was in response to rrebell who took it upon himself to answer on your behalf. But, my second reply was based upon a follow up comment by you yourself in which you said, "I'm way past DC and DCC. I'm doing Dead Rail". To me, it seemed that you had some disdain for both of the currently popular operating systems.
So, my apologies if, indeed, you were offended. That was not my intent.
You may find a certain hostility towards DRS people; some in the past have come off as trying to "save us powered rail people" from ourselves. (Not unlike the DCC and DC arguments Sheldon mentioned) My personal hositlity towards DRS comes from serveral people in one of the clubs I am a member of telling me that radio controlled dead rail is the future of model railroading and I have to get behind it because I am the younger generation. I have no desire to go around turning off each locomotive after an operating session. I have no desire in trying to keep track of which locomotives need charging. Also I like my lights in the passenger cars. If power wires under my layout and complicated electronic components are the price I have to pay for making my railroad run the way I want, then so be it.
If I were running outdoor G Scale (or guage or whatever) then I would be more interested in dead rail.
I personnaly like my NCE DCC system. I think radio throttle would be a good further investment but I didnt want to spend the extra money (if you use 15 or less UTPs its cheaper to go with tethered throttles with the NCE system). I prefer DCC ready locomotives to DCC/Sound equiped. 19.95+tax and I have a DCC locomotive (more if LEDs are needed). I know of several modelers in my club who still run DC only. It works for them and they are happy with what they have. One runs both.
Pete Steinmetz
Dead Rail Society
www.deadrailsociety.com
On30 Modeler
Encinitas, CA
rrebell richhotrain CHARLES STEINMETZ I still see threads and comments from modelers that are still DC only. It got me thinking. What percent of modelers are still using DC vs DCC or other operating systems? Since you are a dead rail enthusiast, you shouldn't be offended when I ask, who cares? I use DCC but it matters not at all to me how many modelers use DC or DCC. Rich Because it maters to him! There is only one stupid question, the one that dose not get asked!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Because it maters to him! There is only one stupid question, the one that dose not get asked!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ATLANTIC CENTRAL And lets be clear about one thing - "DCC ready" locos are DC locos, that just happen to have their motors isolated from the pickup system/frame and have a standard connection point for a decoder. They are DC locos out of the box. My guess is a significant percentage of the DCC ready locos sold never see a decoder.
My guess is a significant percentage of the DCC ready locos sold never see a decoder.
Sheldon,
I agree. If we think in terms of a company producing different locos as simply as possible, making locos DCC ready is simpler than making locos strictly for DC.
DCC/Sound is popular and it is a company's premium product. The motor is high quality and is isolated from the frame for this purpose. Producers design their locos for this market, then simply scale back the electronics for the DC version.
Its much cheaper to make the DC version of the loco (DCC Ready)with the same motor, same frame design, same weights as the DCC/Sound loco, and use a simpler circuit board to distribute the power; then it is to have a completely different design for a DC loco. Adding the the DCC plug and jumper to that circuit board, which makes it easy for the buyer to plug in a decoder, probably costs pennies.
Perhaps taking a hint from one of the producers themselves, I believe Walthers/Proto calls their nonDCC/Sound locos "Standard DC", even though they come equipped with the DCC Ready board and plug.
- Douglas
The only experience I have with the B-mann's decoders are those that come in the 70-tonner. They make it run, mostly, but are balky and frustrating to use. Things are a lot happier once a better decoder is in place.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
mlehman When it comes to questions like this, I've come to the conclusion, "What does it matter?" DC vs DCC vs deadrail just goes round and round, because people somehow conceive of it as a popularity contest or election. That's just wrong. What's important is that a person use the system that's right for them. In other words, it's more like a pair of shoes or clothes. You don't pick size because it's popular. You pick it because it fits. My size 13s would be very uncomfortable in whatever the most popular size might be and I suspect that's something no one would want to go through with a pair of pants, either. There will always be DC, ther will always be DCC, there might be more deadrail. And people use more than one mode, too, like Dave and his critters. No one is taking anyone's models away. And as for selling locos with decoders, it's like cars with air conditioners. Try finding one in many markets and even some models that doesn't have A/C. A decoder is just a feature that helps move product. Look at Bachmann. Of course, what you get for free is, well, what you get for free. But that DCC decoder is going to be there, too much of a market to ignore and no longer enough of a difference in price-cost benefit for there to make a distinction between DC and DCC in SKUs. It's not a conspiracy is all I know....
When it comes to questions like this, I've come to the conclusion, "What does it matter?" DC vs DCC vs deadrail just goes round and round, because people somehow conceive of it as a popularity contest or election.
That's just wrong. What's important is that a person use the system that's right for them. In other words, it's more like a pair of shoes or clothes. You don't pick size because it's popular. You pick it because it fits. My size 13s would be very uncomfortable in whatever the most popular size might be and I suspect that's something no one would want to go through with a pair of pants, either.
There will always be DC, ther will always be DCC, there might be more deadrail. And people use more than one mode, too, like Dave and his critters. No one is taking anyone's models away. And as for selling locos with decoders, it's like cars with air conditioners. Try finding one in many markets and even some models that doesn't have A/C. A decoder is just a feature that helps move product. Look at Bachmann. Of course, what you get for free is, well, what you get for free. But that DCC decoder is going to be there, too much of a market to ignore and no longer enough of a difference in price-cost benefit for there to make a distinction between DC and DCC in SKUs.
It's not a conspiracy is all I know....
I agree, it's not a conspiracy - except maybe at MTH and BLI.........
Seriously though, I agree with Mike. I know I am vocal on this topic, but if you notice I never bring the topic up myself and I alway lobby for choice and acceptance, not that one is better than the other.
And lets be clear about one thing - "DCC ready" locos are DC locos, that just happen to have their motors isolated from the pickup system/frame and have a standard connection point for a decoder. They are DC locos out of the box.
The one good thing that seems to have come from all these "versions" of this topic is that now, unlike four years ago on here, DCC users have generally stopped trying to "save" us DC folks from ourselves - thank goodness.
Four years ago people who spoke up about using DC were called backward, affraid, cheap, just to use some of the nicer terms.
That situation has stopped - as it was completely inapproperate in the first place.
And I will continue to remove decoders - but then again, I only have interest in buying a few more locos anyway.......at least now that I know Scalecoat will be around a little longer to paint them with......
Bachmann decoders - I don't know if they are good or bad, I just know they sell fast on Ebay - lowering my cost of aquisition.
mlehman But that DCC decoder is going to be there, too much of a market to ignore and no longer enough of a difference in price-cost benefit for there to make a distinction between DC and DCC in SKUs.
One could say DCC Ready has replaced straight DC and that's a excellent option for those that use DC or those that wish to install their own decoder.
As far as the Bachmann decoder it gets the job done and features CVs needed for basic DCC use.
I have no complaints about the DCC/Sound decoder in my Bachmann Alco S-4.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
What Mike said!!!
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
I can say that engines that are DCC ready are more popular than plain DC, even if DC is all they run.
About the only thing I have that I'd consider even close to a valid observation is that the vast majority of modelers I've visited nationwide with a serious interest in operations use DCC.Of course, the number of those modelers is itself pretty small, so the sample size off the general population is far too small to be indicitive of the whole hobby.
Disclaimer: This post may contain humor, sarcasm, and/or flatulence.
Michael Mornard
Bringing the North Woods to South Dakota!
There are currently 26 members in the model railroad club to which I belong, and as near as I know I'm the only one who ever reads these forums. Most don't even have an email presence.
Only two of us have subscriptions to MR.
Mark R. If you could somehow take a poll of EVERYONE who has a model railroad of ANY size, shape or form - I'd be willing to bet that over 75% of them are using straight DC. Taking a poll on an online forum is futile as most of these guys aren't even online, let alone actively participate in the forums. I've seen MANY small layouts by older guys who have no interest in all that "high tech" stuff, and probably even more guys getting into the hobby that just can't afford anything more that the basics. Many of these guys can't even create an e-mail let alone participate on a forum ! Mark.
If you could somehow take a poll of EVERYONE who has a model railroad of ANY size, shape or form - I'd be willing to bet that over 75% of them are using straight DC.
Taking a poll on an online forum is futile as most of these guys aren't even online, let alone actively participate in the forums. I've seen MANY small layouts by older guys who have no interest in all that "high tech" stuff, and probably even more guys getting into the hobby that just can't afford anything more that the basics. Many of these guys can't even create an e-mail let alone participate on a forum !
Mark.
Mark, I agree 100%. Everytime I try to make that point on here, or on other forums, trains or otherwise, there is a large group of people who cannot get their head around the idea that there is an even larger group of people indifferent to the internet or online forums.
The local model railroad group here where I live, which I have been a long time member of but currently have been somewhat inactive, has about 30 members.
Out of those 30 members, only myself and two others have EVER even been on this forum, or any model railroad forum.
So if that holds true universially, your numbers are easily correct.
I posted my "50/50 in HO and N" opinion because it is based on all the causal surveys taken on this forum.
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