Soo Line fan Whack-A-Mole. The training program of choice for the underappreciated and unpaid forum moderators.
Whack-A-Mole.
The training program of choice for the underappreciated and unpaid forum moderators.
And 90% of the time its the moderators getting whacked by the members.
The hardest to moderate is the paid forum or by donation forum.You see the last thing the Admin whats is to upset the paying passengers..
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
I have to ask, Do we come here for moderation or model railroading? If threads are constantly steered back to some discussion about moderation, then I guess that's the priority, despite the fact that some people would like to discuss the RC aspects of the hobby, since they happen to be one of those empirical realities of the hobby as it is now, instead of treating it as something to be excluded because it's not a topic some would prefer to discuss.
Just because it isn't DC or DCC does not mean it's irrelevant. I just don't see RC ending up in the Do Not Discuss portion of the program. That would be much like banning discussion of DCC in 1990.
Neither should we let the fact that some people are uninterested in RC applications prohibit those who are from discussing it. If one WANTS a dying hobby, then that's exactly what you do -- prohibit conversations about innovation or new aspects of the hobby opening up.
BTW, the hobby has NEVER been static, as a review of the MR archive will surely demonstrate in every era you find. If people have a preference for a certain aspect of it, say a snapshot from 1970, that's cool, but others will likely pass. It's your railroad, so no propbelm doing whatever or just doing without some things. But declaring the rest of the hobby as dead or dying because many others don't share your aesthetic should not be fodder for running down what others may find useful.
Frankly, fostering a solid RC interest is undoubtedly part of the future of model railroading. I think MR would be remiss in shutting down reasonable discussions about it. I think discussions about how RC has impacted related hobbies is useful for figuring out how it might work for us. Been trying to do that myself in between all those trying to tell us don't bite the RC apple. I think the hobby is already past that point. Those uncomfortable with RC should simply refrain from reading the threads about it or, at least legitmately, keep the discussion in them focused on how it applies to model railroading. Because pretending it is irrelevant is simply throwing a blanket over our heads to protect us from the bedroom monsters lurking in our sleep.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
richhotrainPersonally, I could care less whether a thread is repetitive or whiny or complaining or, for that matter, off topic. But we need to enforce the rules in a consistent matter.
Are you taking about the diner?
Jim
BRAKIE I do not wish to sound mean but,we are guest on this and other forums so,who are we to question what the moderators and Admin allow or disallows since their job is a thankless one while trying to maintain peace while allowing some off topic discussions?
I do not wish to sound mean but,we are guest on this and other forums so,who are we to question what the moderators and Admin allow or disallows since their job is a thankless one while trying to maintain peace while allowing some off topic discussions?
Yes, discussions of graffiti and hobo lifestyle are explicitly prohibited by the forum rules. But the forum rules do not prohibit repetitive threads or non-model railroading threads nor do the rules specifically prohibit off-topic replies to threads. So, we need clarification on these points.
Personally, I could care less whether a thread is repetitive or whiny or complaining or, for that matter, off topic. But we need to enforce the rules in a consistent matter. Why delete an on-topic thread that may be repetitive and permit an off-topic thread that has nothing to do with model railroading?
Rich
Alton Junction
richhotrainThe problem as I see it is the mixed message that Steven is sending by permitting a thread on an off-topic issue to continue unabated while threatening, from time to time, to lock other threads that drift off topic. At the same time, on-topic threads that are considered repetitive are deleted and replaced with Sticky threads.
Rich,I moderate on three forums and one thing I found its not a easy job..
Do you jackboot moderate or allow some freedom? Tis not a easy choice to make..One you chase off members the other they become upset because the Admin and moderators allow this or that topic to stand while deleting others.They can't win.
Then you always have a hot shot new moderator or a thin skin moderator that thinks every opposing opinion is a flame or arguing..
Another side is Admin vs. moderators..Some times our hands are tied by the Admins since they have the final say in the matter at hand and some of those Admins just happens to be paying the bills so,its their house,their ruling..
Rich is right, the moderating is anything but "fair and balanced".
Personally, I don't have any interest in R/C planes/helecoptors/cars, or FPV anything, or video games (even railroad ones), or smart phones, or why there are not more teenagers in model railroading.
I think the hobby is already dead in some ways, but I don't even care much about that. The hobby has become so "splintered" it could likely be defined as three or four related but different hobbies. I don't care about that either. That would just be another discussion that would get locked on here.
The attendance, both of vendors and customers, yesterday at the GSMTS in Maryland was a clear sign that train shows are nearly dead - no loss from my point of view either. Nothing like 10 or 20 years ago.
I just know that the moderating of this site could learn a thing or two from "MyTractorForum.com" because this forum is anything but well moderated.
If "you" think it will benefit you, or make you "feel" good to "recruit" people into the hobby, young or old, have at it. Don't look for help from me - I'm figuring declining interest will lower prices on the last few things I want.
This hobby, at least my version/vision of it, requires that one be willing to learn stuff, develop skills, and string together more than one thought for more than 3 minutes. I don't know many people under thirty interested in anything like that - nor do I have any interest in saving them from themselves.
Sheldon
One could, with a lot of goodwill, create a connection to model railroading, as these hobbies seem to share the same fate - more or less.
We have a designated "the hobby is too expensive" - thread - we should have a "the hobby is dying" - thread
BRAKIE richhotrain I am just curious why this thread is allowed to drone on and on while other recent threads have been deleted and replaced by a Sticky. Rich Sure this topic is not about choo-choos but,it does hold interest for some members and in that light I still think Steven has shown good taste in allowing this topic to run its course. Even I have a interest in R/C--boats that is.
richhotrain I am just curious why this thread is allowed to drone on and on while other recent threads have been deleted and replaced by a Sticky. Rich
Sure this topic is not about choo-choos but,it does hold interest for some members and in that light I still think Steven has shown good taste in allowing this topic to run its course.
Even I have a interest in R/C--boats that is.
The problem as I see it is the mixed message that Steven is sending by permitting a thread on an off-topic issue to continue unabated while threatening, from time to time, to lock other threads that drift off topic. At the same time, on-topic threads that are considered repetitive are deleted and replaced with Sticky threads.
So, the moderating process becomes confusing. What is permitted and what isn't? How about if I start a thread titled Where Have The Young Model Railroaders Gone - - They Are Out Playing Golf. Now, that should be fair game. I love golf and I put the layout aside when the weather here in the Midwest turns to Spring and Summer. I am sure that the topic would be of interest to others as well. So, why not?
don7As a few posters have indicated age does have a lot to do with peoples hobbys, as a youth I had a few train sets and a permanent layout, as luckily we had a large house with a full basement. Then later i put away my trains and it was not until i was near retirement that i caught the model railroad bug again. I have a fair size layout in my recreation room and I spend a lot of my free time in the winter working on the layout. Over time I have slowly changed over my layout and now model the 1940 steam era and have on my layout CPR, CNR and GN locomotives. Most of my steam engines are now brass, as if your are modeling Canadian Steam your will find few HO engines available otherwise. In short I am an avid model railroader and certainly would not want to see the hobby die. My posting was as I said before based on my reaction to seeing so many people in a busy hobby shop (there was an excellent sale going on at the time) and yet there were so few people browsing the model railroad items and also having the hobby shop manager telling me how popular the RC items were selling.
I have a fair size layout in my recreation room and I spend a lot of my free time in the winter working on the layout. Over time I have slowly changed over my layout and now model the 1940 steam era and have on my layout CPR, CNR and GN locomotives. Most of my steam engines are now brass, as if your are modeling Canadian Steam your will find few HO engines available otherwise.
In short I am an avid model railroader and certainly would not want to see the hobby die.
My posting was as I said before based on my reaction to seeing so many people in a busy hobby shop (there was an excellent sale going on at the time) and yet there were so few people browsing the model railroad items and also having the hobby shop manager telling me how popular the RC items were selling.
Above poster already said it in his post. Age is a major factor. Most hobbies require disposable time, money, and in the case of model trains, space to build a layout. Sure there are creative ways around all those things but for all but the most dedicated, they are requirements.
Teenage years through forties are typically occupied by chasing girls, school, work and family. It's not until your fifties that you start to have disposable income and time to enjoy hobbies. In much of the USA basements do not exist, so you have to wait until the kids leave home to find a spare bedroom. Which of course is why most model railroaders and other hobbyists are older.
I think there's been some skimming going on. My post and several others have been specifically about model railroad applications.
I'll throw in another, simply because it's part of the the current issue -- RC planes, boats, trucks, whatever now have another niche in the RC crowd -- trains. Most of that deadrail stuff is repurposed RC.
I've waited for years for large scale wireless systems to get more affordable. The turnkey one's are still relatively expensive, but we now have all the parts available to cheaply build them, even if we're RC-dummies (which I am). I've got a 1:20.3 B-mann Shay that will get wireless sound with onboard batteries whenever the budget can squeeze it in. Like many here have remarked, the LHS is much better stocked with RC stuff than trains these days, but I can work with it.
I'm not sure if anyone specifically mentioned this yet, so I may not be first to point it out, but one reason the new RC stuff is so adapatable is because electric motors are now very common (and I'm pretty sure there's some "fuel" folks who look down their noses at them electric kids). That means its very simple to run trains with basically the same gear that RC planes use. I'm sure I'll figure it out.
What we're seeing is that instead of there being walls between trains and RC is that there is a convergence in certain skill areas. Frankly, that's a good thing. And we shouldn't pretend it doesn't exist. If RC is like traction, or N scale, or DC and you're DCC, just read on, as there's lots of other content here. There's no need to bash those who want to know more about something that is HOT in model railroading right now. Maybe not in your basement, but it is in many others.
Of course,, if you WANT another thread full of RC-bashing, that's easy enough to achieve...right here. On the other hand, be the change you want to see works for me. I've said my peace, and will return to RC given it's the topic of this thread.
richhotrainI am just curious why this thread is allowed to drone on and on while other recent threads have been deleted and replaced by a Sticky. Rich
Rich,Every day I look over topics that I am not interested in.Should those topics be deleted too?
Cheers, the Bear.
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
When I posted this thread it was because I had no idea how popular the RC hobby has become. I was in the hobbyshop on the weekend during a sale and I was checking out the model railroad items. During the time I was there I saw many people young and old come into the hobby shop.
What surprised me was how many of them were checking out thr RC section of cars and airplanes and how during the time I was there say only two other people check out the model railroad items.
During my time in the hobby shop I spoke to the owner manager who I see often at the local model railroad club and we had a conversation of how popular the RC Hobby was. It was the manager who mentioned that the local Model Railroad club was even in danger of folding unless new members would be forthcoming.
As a few posters have indicated age does have a lot to do with peoples hobbys, as a youth I had a few train sets and a permanent layout, as luckily we had a large house with a full basement. Then later i put away my trains and it was not until i was near retirement that i caught the model railroad bug again.
I would also add a note that since this incidence occurred I have also been at the local designated national RC flying club field a few times and that there are not many young members there either.
Being in a small City with a large rural area with lots of crown land the people flying rc planes, helicopters and drones have lots of choices of where to fly their aircraft, you do not see them in the local parks that often neither but they are out there.
So if I offended anyone with this posting I did not mean to. I was just verbalizing an observation that I had while I was in a hobbyshop that was actually quite busy as there was a sale going on at the time.
zstripe I don't know.....some threads may be rehashed over & over to some people....but there are also newer people who may have something to say also. Are they not allowed to have their say??? No one is forcing anyone to get involved, negative or positive answers. Take Care! Frank
I don't know.....some threads may be rehashed over & over to some people....but there are also newer people who may have something to say also. Are they not allowed to have their say???
No one is forcing anyone to get involved, negative or positive answers.
Take Care!
Frank
You are right,write, rite, correct Frank. Take any page of threads, if you take out all the threads that are "repeats", there isn't much, if anything left. I will occasionally go to an other forum on the WWW like Yahoo groups or some other if I have a real problem, however I like the more social atmosphere of this place. Here it is like we have conversations as if we are sitting at the cafeteria at a train show. On some of the other forums it is all business and it is like I have called a company to ask them why my engine isn't running. I get the answer and don't hang around. I am not in their league in this hobby just as I am not in the same league of the experts on this forum, however the smart, experienced guys on this forum tend to be a little more friendly as they also will chime in on other subjects.
I am probably the worst offender when it comes to straying off topic and when told to get back on track I do, however this comes from taking an interest in the people on here and what they have to say.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
Where have all the model railroaders gone, long time passing?Where have all the model railroaders, long time ago?Where have all the model railroaders gone?computer games and cell phones have picked them everyone.Oh, when will they ever learn? Oh, when will they ever learn?
BRAKIE richhotrain My biggest disappointment is that Steven has not seen fit to delete this off topic thread and start a Sticky in its place. Maybe our gracious host thinks its refreshing to see something different then another whiny topic or a question that has been covered many times over? Klambach does offer other hobby magazines..
richhotrain My biggest disappointment is that Steven has not seen fit to delete this off topic thread and start a Sticky in its place.
Maybe our gracious host thinks its refreshing to see something different then another whiny topic or a question that has been covered many times over?
Klambach does offer other hobby magazines..
First, the topic of RC cars and RC airplanes is not in the least bit related to model railroading.
Second, the topic has been covered many time over - - - too many times over. The title of the thread is a dead giveaway, Where Have The Young Model Railroaders Gone.
How many times and how many threads have we had on the subject of the hobby is dying, the young are not interested, and their interests lie elsewhere?
I am just curious why this thread is allowed to drone on and on while other recent threads have been deleted and replaced by a Sticky.
richhotrainMy biggest disappointment is that Steven has not seen fit to delete this off topic thread and start a Sticky in its place. Rich
I think Steven has shown good taste in allowing this topic to run its course.
When I was a young lad in school (in the 1960´s), my classmates (all male, this were the years before coeducation) were either into trains or slot cars, none into RC planes, as they were too expensive.
When my son (now 28 years of age) was a young lad in school, none of his classmates were into trains, slot cars, RC planes/ships or anything where you actually have to create things with your own hands.
If you take a look who is buying RC planes these days, you´ll find out that it is the same bunch of middle-aged, already gray-haired folks with their middle having a tendency to be comfortably round .
Jimmy_Braum Now you want a dying hobby? Golf. A local range near me is doing a scholarship for any athletes to play it in college due to the massive drop in interest.
Now you want a dying hobby? Golf. A local range near me is doing a scholarship for any athletes to play it in college due to the massive drop in interest.
That has more to do with the region you're in than the sport.
Down where I live, a very moneyed area with lots of people with leisure time to match, they can't build driving ranges fast enough. Land is way too valuable for courses.
But a high end range with chipped balls and targets with sensors to evaluate the distance and accuracy, plus a full menu and bar with waiters bringing your order to your climate controlled bay? Great way to spend a spring day.
RT TrainsPuzzled, then, why you would be looking at list price for the most expensive option with sound. You can buy perfectly serviceable Walther's/Proto from eBay new in box for under a hundred. And they'll run them again eventually.
Prices are high but,like you say there are options.I would buy a Walthers or even a older LL P2K locomotive and add DCC/ Sound and still have money left over.
Enzoamps I look at a new E8 for my potential B&O railroad, and the $300 says, "sorry, not today."
I look at a new E8 for my potential B&O railroad, and the $300 says, "sorry, not today."
Puzzled, then, why you would be looking at list price for the most expensive option with sound. You can buy perfectly serviceable Walther's/Proto from eBay new in box for under a hundred. And they'll run them again eventually.
Does every third thread on this forum have to be whining about price?
Geared Steam richhotrain Two thoughts: 1. What does this have to do with model railroading? 2. It's been discussed so often that it may now be worthy of a Sticky. Time to move on. Rich x2 Same old yawner posts....over and over This hobby is dead, last one out turn out the lights
richhotrain Two thoughts: 1. What does this have to do with model railroading? 2. It's been discussed so often that it may now be worthy of a Sticky. Time to move on. Rich
Two thoughts:
1. What does this have to do with model railroading?
2. It's been discussed so often that it may now be worthy of a Sticky.
Time to move on.
x2
Same old yawner posts....over and over
This hobby is dead, last one out turn out the lights
My biggest disappointment is that Steven has not seen fit to delete this off topic thread and start a Sticky in its place.
"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination."-Albert Einstein
http://gearedsteam.blogspot.com/
Okay, the "under 25 perspective" from me.
Most of my friends are spending their money on girls, cars, beer (tons of beer) and buying a house. They spend the leftover on video games,phones, etc. I know about four people interested in trains my age perSonally. I'm in four model railroading Facebook groups full of younger adults, so its not doing a massive die off, its just the way of showing it is changing.
I don't have my own layout, nor the space. But I collect currently and run/do work on the club layout.
(My Model Railroad, My Rules)
These are the opinions of an under 35 , from the east end of, and modeling, the same section of the Wheeling and Lake Erie railway. As well as a freelanced road (Austinville and Dynamite City railroad).
SP&S modeler, 1960's give or take a decade or two for some equipment.
http://www.youtube.com/user/SGTDUPREY?feature=guide
Gary DuPrey
N scale model railroader
Nothing has changed, in the 60's no kids, but me, were into trains. Slot cars were the rage but by the late 60's, were going away. If you could get a count, you would find more people in model railroading as ever before but if you were to look at a percentage of population, you would see it scrinking (too many other hobbies). You want to see a dying hobby, look at bowling, in warm states they are fast disapearing, out here in California they have started a fundraiser for one that people don't want to disapear. Out of 6 local, only one remains!
Steven S So for less than the cost of a single locomotive, I can fly a plane. Steve S
So for less than the cost of a single locomotive, I can fly a plane.
Steve S
Unless of course it's TYCO (They count, right?)