This thread may have started out talking about the impact other hobbies are having on the decision whether to join the model railroading hobby, but now, it's gone completely off the rails. Please discuss your R/C planes, R/C cars, slot cars, wargaming, and other non-railroading hobbies on a more appropriate forum. Thanks.
--Steven Otte, Model Railroader senior associate editorsotte@kalmbach.com
Someone mention WarGaming figure's?
Some I put together and painted for My 40 yr.old Wargaming nut Son:
Take Care!
Frank
Schuylkill & Susquehanna:
How about a dehydrated layout? Comes in a box, something like breakfast cereal. Just add water............
Tom
Schuylkill and SusquehannaMost young people (exception right here!) are not willing to spend the time or make the effort in a hobby that requires a lot of work to end up with a good product.
I went with my son and youngest grandson to a board gamers meet and I notice the scenery on those club/group game tables was top notch.I had no real clue what was really going on but,was fascinated with their highly detailed figures,dragons and other monsters they was using..
If any of those gamers became model railroaders I suspect they would have a top notch layout.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
I love the fact that people are putting RC in N scale now, means it will get easier for HO!
Part of the issue might be that RC planes are Ready-To-Fly, RC cars are Ready-To-Run, but you can't have a fully wired, sceniced, weathered Ready-To-Operate train layout (some exceptions may apply). Most young people (exception right here!) are not willing to spend the time or make the effort in a hobby that requires a lot of work to end up with a good product.
Now if someone would introduce a complete 11x22 layout complete with trains that you could unwrap and run...
Modeling the Pennsy and loving it!
ATLANTIC CENTRALMike, feel free to try to direct the sheeple any way you like, I'm not interested in such exercises. I'm interested in disccussions of thoughts and ideas with people who actually have their own thoughts and ideas - maybe this is not he place for that? Sheldon
I dunno Sheldon,
I tried 4 ways to Sunday to try to get people to talk about how RC could be applied, but moderation seemed to be more popular with the crowd today. I think Don put a little tease in the title in good faith of talking about maybe how we could get some of the sort of excitement that RC has going on these days.
Not to go on endlessly about that, but I've noted the same thing in our LHS. RC had gotten very hot the last few years. But here there's the special case of being the home of Great Planes, Horizon, and I can't keep track of what else RC-wise, plus the Big U with it's Engineering and CS schools, open houses, research institutes, and a virtual gaming node, also. And Horizon sponsors a big electric fly-in at the Armory building on campus. Don may be right, though, and it's not just the unique location here.
I do know that RC is accessible technology for kids. Putting it into trains seems like low-hanging fruit to me to work at building a future for model railroading as a hobby. In fact, it's one of those things that changes with every generation simply because the technology changes. Before robotics (which may be a better, less-laden term for it) it was DCC, before that plastic, before that 12 VDC (because HO was pretty much 6 volt until after the War). Whatever our personal choice in RR tech may be, I think it's worth considering the future may not be the way we dream it, but the way some kid does.
And the whole deadrail thing is attracting attention. I remmeber first hearing about such goings on 10 years ago and the batteries weren't there yet. Now, they are, maybe. Batteries don't grow better, faster like circuits do, as I'm sure you know. But I think kids will see that future. RC is a part of model railroading, has been for years in the large scales and some of them ARE serious model railroaders.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
Funny how those that claim to be adults act like 8 year olds.
"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination."-Albert Einstein
http://gearedsteam.blogspot.com/
Uh, I think some of you clearly missed what I was attempting to say...fine.
Later.
BRAKIE zstripe Don7, You didn't do anything wrong....as far as I am concerned. Many times on the forums it has been suggested to use R/C servos for operating turnouts and the like.....wireless throttles/transmitters have been in R/C equipment for year's. Take Care! Frank Let's look back in history..R/C was successfully tried as early as the mid 60s. Its very possible given today's mini R/C servos that R/C will be the next control method--think of never having to clean track again!
zstripe Don7, You didn't do anything wrong....as far as I am concerned. Many times on the forums it has been suggested to use R/C servos for operating turnouts and the like.....wireless throttles/transmitters have been in R/C equipment for year's. Take Care! Frank
Don7,
You didn't do anything wrong....as far as I am concerned.
Many times on the forums it has been suggested to use R/C servos for operating turnouts and the like.....wireless throttles/transmitters have been in R/C equipment for year's.
Let's look back in history..R/C was successfully tried as early as the mid 60s.
Its very possible given today's mini R/C servos that R/C will be the next control method--think of never having to clean track again!
R/C is already an excellent option for large scale and garden mdoel railroading.
It would be the perfect solution for HO and N scale if the units could be made that small. I'm sure they will eventually.
I think the OP is guilty of nothing more than rambling a bit in his initial post. Something everyone is guilty of at some point. If you read the thread carefully you will see it is a thread about why there aren't more young people in the hobby. I think anything that gets kids building and playing with models as opposed to video games is a positive for the model railroading hobby.
I would like to make it clear that I had no problem with the original post, but I did see it as another "no young people in the hobby" thread.
I don't think this thread should have been locked, deleted, or whatever. Just like I don't think we need a sticky thread for the "cost" topic, and just like I don't think my original threads years ago about my control system should have been deleted.
But I think the rules should be consistant, and they are not. They are applied heavy handedly to people perceived as outspoken or outside the main stream - and applied "lightly" or not at all to those who "go along to get along".
Mike, feel free to try to direct the sheeple any way you like, I'm not interested in such exercises.
I'm interested in disccussions of thoughts and ideas with people who actually have their own thoughts and ideas - maybe this is not he place for that?
Sheldon
Hi everyone,
I am also in another hobby besides model railroading which I have been doing for many years.
I am an FAA licensed private pilot, and also into buiklding and flying RC vintage airplanes , power and gliders, and belong to several clubs nd organizations which all suffer a lack of youth members.
Okay let's boil it down, plain and simple. I am single and almost retired. I do have the time and money for these things.
I am not into video games, etc, like the youth of today are.
When we were kids , we didn't have computers, video games, and cable TV.
Today kids are much more absorbed in these things.
PLus they don't have the money and usually a place to have a layout.
Look around in your local clubs. What is the avearge age of your youngest members?
There may be a few youngsters in some of these clubs, but not like when we were kids.
When it's finally time to go see the man upstairs, will your layout and hardware to a youth club instead of having your family sale it off piecemeal.
Give these kids something to start with!
Happy railroading to all!
TheK4Kid
zstripe Well if Steven does decide to lock this thread, He probably won't do it until Monday....when He returns to work. I don't believe, anyone moderate's the Forum on the weekend...has been my observance anyway. I thought it was a interesting thread...until the non-Model Railroading topic was questioned. Take Care! Frank
Well if Steven does decide to lock this thread, He probably won't do it until Monday....when He returns to work. I don't believe, anyone moderate's the Forum on the weekend...has been my observance anyway.
I thought it was a interesting thread...until the non-Model Railroading topic was questioned.
Rich,
I understand that the subject line could have ben more focused, but I take Don at his word that he wanted to discuss a bit more than what the title seemed to indicate.
And I understand some folks have concerns about moderating being inconsistent. It's probably best, as with most moderation decisions to take them up with the mods in a PM.
That aside, I've found that if things do slide off topic, the best thing that offends the least number of people is to try to steer it back on-topic. And I think that trying to understand how RC can benefit the hobby and bring in younger folks can be both on-topic in how the thread title might be taken literally and as an effort to make this more RR-relevant.
My point in offering a critique here is that all the comments about moderation make the thread more like what your complaint centers on. There a certain irony in that is all I'm saying. Maybe if we talked about RC & RRing then all the dying hobby and moderation unhappiness stuff could get out of the way of a useful discussion.
Many a train is going RC in some form or another!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Once again, as the person posting this thread I feel I should clarify a point.
No where in the thread did I say the model railroad hobby is dying, yet many seem to have felt this was somehow insinuated.
As far as comparing cost of the RC hobby ver model railroading it was a couple of young people posting to the thread that stated a cost comparison.
As it has been discussed, age is an important aspect of model railroading. Many model railroaders are retired, own homes that have adequate room to house a model railroad layout.
I make this last comparsion as when when I look at the members of the local model railroad club i note most are retired, as i am.
Once again my posting was simply based on an observation that most young people I saw that day in the local hobby shop did not display any interest in the model railroad items, however most of them did spend their time browsing and purchasing RC items.
My observations surprised me, I had now intentions of comparing the shopping habits of young people when I entered the hobby shop. I was just somewhat taken back as I browsed through the model railroad items that there were only a few people that seemed interested in the model railroad items.
As mentioned, the hobby shop manager/owner confirmed that my observations and comments were correct.
Yes, perhaps many of these young people may well develop an interest in model railroading in their later years, I do not know if that is likely or not, only that it is possible.
Perhaps, the moderators of this forum should lock this thread now before a few members of this forum have a cornary.
Would not want to be held responsible for that.
richhotrain UP 4-12-2, it is too bad that you completely missed the point of those objecting to this thread. It is not about hostility, or preferences, or one against another. It is simply about following the forum rules or not. Rich
UP 4-12-2, it is too bad that you completely missed the point of those objecting to this thread. It is not about hostility, or preferences, or one against another. It is simply about following the forum rules or not.
Rich
Exactly! My off topic response to a "station wagon" comment by Andre last week lasted about 10 minutes...........
And that was in the "middle" of an ongoing on topic conversation.
This thread started based on how popular R/C cars and planes are with young people compared to trains?
The rules only apply to some of us.
UP 4-12-2, it is too bad that you completely missed the point of those objecting to this thread. It is not about hostility, or preferences, or one against another. It is simply about following the forum rules, or not.
Alton Junction
Wow, I took a break from at least this forum for awhile...and to me it seems as if little has changed. I can't speak for the moderation at all, but I have the impression there is too much hostility between "group A who prefers this" and "group B who prefers that". To which I ask--if I was perhaps 22, starting out on my own, and even had a good enough job to provide me with some extra disposable income, why would I want to be part of some hobby where it seems that many folks are just against many other folks? (Please notice I stopped short of saying everybody -- I know it's not everybody). Regardless of the fact that serious hobbyists tend to be in a relative minority anyway, what do we have to offer that prospective 20-something? I know one person, on a relatively fixed income, who can't afford to buy model trains anymore--but instead he has his fun operating virtual pieces of railroad on a computer screen in a game--and every year he can afford to add a new prototypical route or two that he tries to basically qualify over (his type 1 diabetes medication uses up a chunk of his monthly income).
mlehman I have to ask, Do we come here for moderation or model railroading? If threads are constantly steered back to some discussion about moderation, then I guess that's the priority, despite the fact that some people would like to discuss the RC aspects of the hobby, since they happen to be one of those empirical realities of the hobby as it is now, instead of treating it as something to be excluded because it's not a topic some would prefer to discuss. Just because it isn't DC or DCC does not mean it's irrelevant. I just don't see RC ending up in the Do Not Discuss portion of the program. That would be much like banning discussion of DCC in 1990. Neither should we let the fact that some people are uninterested in RC applications prohibit those who are from discussing it. If one WANTS a dying hobby, then that's exactly what you do -- prohibit conversations about innovation or new aspects of the hobby opening up. BTW, the hobby has NEVER been static, as a review of the MR archive will surely demonstrate in every era you find. If people have a preference for a certain aspect of it, say a snapshot from 1970, that's cool, but others will likely pass. It's your railroad, so no propbelm doing whatever or just doing without some things. But declaring the rest of the hobby as dead or dying because many others don't share your aesthetic should not be fodder for running down what others may find useful. Frankly, fostering a solid RC interest is undoubtedly part of the future of model railroading. I think MR would be remiss in shutting down reasonable discussions about it. I think discussions about how RC has impacted related hobbies is useful for figuring out how it might work for us. Been trying to do that myself in between all those trying to tell us don't bite the RC apple. I think the hobby is already past that point. Those uncomfortable with RC should simply refrain from reading the threads about it or, at least legitmately, keep the discussion in them focused on how it applies to model railroading. Because pretending it is irrelevant is simply throwing a blanket over our heads to protect us from the bedroom monsters lurking in our sleep.
I have to ask, Do we come here for moderation or model railroading? If threads are constantly steered back to some discussion about moderation, then I guess that's the priority, despite the fact that some people would like to discuss the RC aspects of the hobby, since they happen to be one of those empirical realities of the hobby as it is now, instead of treating it as something to be excluded because it's not a topic some would prefer to discuss.
Just because it isn't DC or DCC does not mean it's irrelevant. I just don't see RC ending up in the Do Not Discuss portion of the program. That would be much like banning discussion of DCC in 1990.
Neither should we let the fact that some people are uninterested in RC applications prohibit those who are from discussing it. If one WANTS a dying hobby, then that's exactly what you do -- prohibit conversations about innovation or new aspects of the hobby opening up.
BTW, the hobby has NEVER been static, as a review of the MR archive will surely demonstrate in every era you find. If people have a preference for a certain aspect of it, say a snapshot from 1970, that's cool, but others will likely pass. It's your railroad, so no propbelm doing whatever or just doing without some things. But declaring the rest of the hobby as dead or dying because many others don't share your aesthetic should not be fodder for running down what others may find useful.
Frankly, fostering a solid RC interest is undoubtedly part of the future of model railroading. I think MR would be remiss in shutting down reasonable discussions about it. I think discussions about how RC has impacted related hobbies is useful for figuring out how it might work for us. Been trying to do that myself in between all those trying to tell us don't bite the RC apple. I think the hobby is already past that point. Those uncomfortable with RC should simply refrain from reading the threads about it or, at least legitmately, keep the discussion in them focused on how it applies to model railroading. Because pretending it is irrelevant is simply throwing a blanket over our heads to protect us from the bedroom monsters lurking in our sleep.
Mike, respectfully, I don't understand this response at all?
This thread is not about R/C as it applies to this hobby, it is another "why don't young people have an interest in model trains" lament.
To the question above - I don't know and I don't care. When I was 14, working in a hobby shop, in 1971, most of the kids my age were not interested in model trains either - nothing has changed in my view regarding young people. Most of the shop customers were MEN, not boys.
Personally, I think there is way too much "moderation" on this forum, and it is way too heavy handed and seriously biased.
As for R/C and this hobby, as you know I use R/C, not DCC. I'm all in for a discussion of R/C, and I ignore a bunch of stuff on here of no interest to me.
The more I try to talk about modeling on here, the more I just get told I should just do it like "everyone else" (DCC, sound, full length passenger cars, rigid plastic trucks, RTR, whatever).
Nobody on here wants to talk about modeling, they just want to talk about how their slide it out of the box model is not perfect, costs too much, and does not have the right whistle sound.
And when someone like me who has been around this hobby and business for 40 years suggests reasons and solutions, based on facts, I'm considered a nut job - happy to be the nut job, but this thread is no more about the hobby than "the hobby is too expensive" threads.
mlehman I have to ask, Do we come here for moderation or model railroading? If threads are constantly steered back to some discussion about moderation, then I guess that's the priority, despite the fact that some people would like to discuss the RC aspects of the hobby, since they happen to be one of those empirical realities of the hobby as it is now, instead of treating it as something to be excluded because it's not a topic some would prefer to discuss. Just because it isn't DC or DCC does not mean it's irrelevant. I just don't see RC ending up in the Do Not Discuss portion of the program. That would be much like banning discussion of DCC in 1990.
This thread may have digressed into a discussion of the RC aspects of the hobby but that's not how it started out. Whether Don intended it or not, it started out as another The Hobby Is Dying thread with all the young kids gravitating toward RC cars and RC airplanes. It says so in the title itself. If young kids prefer RC cars and RC airplanes to model railroading, that is their business, but I see no reason to discuss their passion on our model railroad forum.
But, as I said before, I could care less as long as we are consistent in our approach. I kind of resent seeing perfectly civil on-topic threads getting deleted while off-topic threads are tolerated. It sends a mixed message. I have asked Steven to comment, and hopefully clarify, his position on this issue.
BobsterHickory Convention Center. It is, in my opinion, not as well advertised as it could/should be. Now having said that.......
Russell
Greetings,
Since this thread is still going I'd like to add my 2 cents. I'm not affiliated with the group that put it on. I went to the Hickory NC train show yesterday at the Hickory Convention Center. It is, in my opinion, not as well advertised as it could/should be. Now having said that.......
Yes there were plenty of us 50+ year olds, I'm one of them. However, there were lots of kids there. At the N scale modular layout there was a pretty young lady running her boyfreind's train while he was working on something in the staging area. My guess is the couple was about 17. He looked to be a football player. I bet no one hassled him for playing with trains. The group seemed to have all ages involved and seemed to get along quite well. It looked like some of the folks were controlling their trains with their cell phones.
I saw parents with preteens looking for items to expand the kids layouts looking for good deals. I suspect many of the kids take down their "layout" when they are done playing with it. The family I'm thinking of was looking for Bachmann easy track in HO. There were lots of people in their 30's and 40's. There was a kid who I think was aroud 10 with his recording with his I phone following an HO train around an HO modular layout. On one end of ths same layout there were 3 kids looking at the three foot tall wooden trestle module. The front of this module drops way below track level. The other 2 tracks of this module duck into a tunnel which attaches to the staging area.
If I may offer a few random thoughts that may effect the hobby.
1) Not everyone enjoys the hobby the same way. I bet there are far more lone wolves out there than we know.
2) Lots of younger folks have huge amounts of college debt.
3) We're supposed to be coming out of a recession. Many of those who were fortunate enough to have jobs have had to wait quite a while to even see raises while our insurance has gone up considerably. I lost a job in 2008 and was fortunate / blessed to find a job in 2009. I still came very close to losing the house. Not easy to find a job once you're over 50. For those starting over they may not have the room they once did.
4) The decline of brick and mortar stores, deserved or undeserved, has minimized exposure for a lot of folks. Sure you can get it cheaper online. I like to see, hear, and test run an engine before I buy. Model Railroader can't review everything. Their forums are very helpful in supplementing their magazine.
5) Once the kids grow up some people get back into the hobby. It was nice to see how many wives / girlfriends accompanied their men to the show yesterday.
6) For the steel mill crowd there was a husband and wife team from Sharpsville PA. who had a lot of really intesting items primarily in N but some HO. For a cottage industry to feel bold enough to drive from PA to NC makes me thin business is pretty good.
Thank you for your time, but believe the hobby is not as dead as many folks feel.
Bob L.
Modeling in N scale: Rock Island freight and passenger, with a touch of the following; Wabash Cannon Ball, CB&Q passenger, and ATSF freight and passenger. I played in Peoria (Heights).
Sheldon,I understand that more then you think...I seen the same on one forum I use to moderate on-its call favoritism.Some moderators would jump through hoops defending 4 or 5 members while wanting to drop the ax on others for minor infractions of the rules..
The best part the forum shut down around 6 years ago.
Well Larry, here is my take. When I first came on here years ago an talked about my control system, a moderator sent me a PM, and asked me if I was in business selling my "system".
I answered honestly, "no, but in the future I may offer the unique parts to those interested". The result of that was pages of model building discussion deleted.
Yet, we have had shop owners who actively engaged in "promoting" DCC is every "should I go DCC" thread that ever came up.
Sounds like a double standard to me. Not just a double standard, but a double standard driven by a bais as to how the hobby should "proceed".
So am I still defensive about that subject - you bet.
Also years ago, I shared extensive research I had done on free rolling trucks and replacement wheel sets. Only to be called names and shouted down despite being told by the manufacture of one of the products I use that my research was correct.
I belong to a forum in my other hobby, GRAVELY garden tractors. on that forum I am the author of the second longest running thread in the GRAVELY section - about the ongoing improvements I have engineered for my tractor. My threads don't get deleated there? I'm not considered a trouble maker. None of the "children" are offended by my strong opinions. and believe me, I'm not typical on that forum and more than I am "typical" on this forum.
But that forum is used by grown ups and moderated by grown ups......