Too much space: is it possible?

[CP5415]

While building any scale railroad in that space would be heaven, the costs of building & maintaining it would be enormous.
Building something smaller with a good sized wook bench & a lounge for when the crew comes over would probably be better.
This could be your "dog house"!!!!!!
YA, you could get the better half all upset & you'd then have to spend all your time in the doghouse!
Great idea!

Gordon

[fischey]

Assuming you decided to buy the barn with the auxilliary house, I'd sit down and write a list.

What do I want to see in a railroad?
If I have a prototype in mind, what parts of it do I like the best?
What operations? Local freight? Yard hogging? Hotshots? Name trains? Showboating collections? Short line or logging?

After my many criteria would be satisfied, I'd:

Build a modelmaker's shop and lounge area. Power and water essential. Keep a large shop area available.

Keep it very simple. Here is an opportunity to model a railroad going through its environment. An Example: Take John Armstrong's recent plan for the Sierra Railroad and expand it to fit about 60% of your available space. Or look at the Western Pacific articles done in MR a year or so ago, with the Keddy yard as an example, near the Keddy Wye. Simple, straighforward, but a lot of railroading to model. Consider interchanges like Koester has. Whatever your taste, take a simple existing plan and "cram" it into your larger space; don't "cram" more track in because you have more space. Wood and plaster is much cheaper than track, buildings, and accessories. Make scenery. It goes in real fast, too, without all that track and building stuff to mess with.

In your plan, simplify yards. If you want 20 classification tracks, build 12, and so-on. A nice, long 12 track yard impresses but does not become overwhelming. Avoid designing a railroad that fits all of your rolling stock on it; sooner or later it won't, anyway. Don't build switching puzzles on sidings or in industrial areas. Build sidings with simple access like the prototype does when they have the real estate to do it. Set up a staging area that is easy to access and place or remove trains, with re-railing tools/track handy. Have a test-track with power, coupler height gauges, and quick fix-it tools at ready disposal. Your maintenance days will prove to be a breeze.

Consider hosting a club. But first, join your local one first to see if the club members are fellows you want to bring home to your dinner table. I know this sounds snobbish, but I've been affiliated with clubs for 30 years, all of them filled with very different memberships, some who I could forget quickly and others I miss dearly. If this is not your cup of tea, consider gathering a crew of colleagues who you do trust and admire and learn from them while they enjoy a new challenge.

Buy a reliable touring motorcycle to get away from all this stuff when you think you have just about had it. It refreshes.

Be a participant in your wife's activity pursuits. One thing worse than a football (or motorcycle racing fan) widow is a MRR widow. Ask me how I know that.

Good luck and I hope escrow closes soon.

[trainnut57]

I wish I had your problem!! Not really. I have my layout, approximately 16X17X3 feet (U-shaped) in my basement wrapped around my furnace. All is fine until I have a problem, then trying to get to the "restricted area" around the furnace is a job for a first class contortionist. The Good Lord didn't make my arms 6' long so I am very adept with extra-long tweezers, grill tongs and anything else I can find. Too much space? NEVER!!

[camarokid]

If I still lived in my Illinois house I would have twice the room I have now(24 x 16). So if I had your space I'd make it 48x50 and have a walk -in and a walk-around layout that would never be more than 4 1/2 feet wide so you can reach everything from the aisle. The possibilities are endless from double track mains out and back to single track with really loooooong passing sidings. Make your plan simple so most or all of the track is seen and easier to clean. Go DCC simply for the wiring ease. Enjoy your good fortune.

[Anonymous]

As the previous suggestions have said, a person never has to much space. You can start as small as you want and expand when you are ready. In the meen time you can use the extra space for whatever you want, it doen't have to be railway related.

[ptccox]

Oh bliss, all that space!
My particular dislike has always been the small radius curves that lack of space forces on railway modellers, particularly here in the UK, where our houses are generally smaller than yours in the USA, and where basements are not common. It is a great shame to see so much effort put into realistic modelling in other areas, only for it to be spoilt by the totally unrealistic appearance of stock negotiating two foot radius curves. Reading MR I see many inspiring model railroads, but it appears that even in your larger spaces so many people still seem to try to force in too much trackage and therefore too tight curves. Just spread yourself out more with long sweeping curves and nothing less than six foot radius - and I am talking about HO!

[RRRerun]

I am sure all of the suggestions made have given you some great ideas. G scale seems to me to be the perfect choice to model in that large area. Just think, if you ever fill that area up and run out of room to expand. What a magnificent helix you could construct down to ground level outside to a garden railroad. Endless possibilities present themselves in your situation and I am sure you will make all the right decisions. Guess I am a dreamer too, but isn't that the best part of this hobby !!!!

[Anonymous]

Very Nice, This is so cool .I have a layout set in my 'train-room' it's 9 1/2 x 11 double decked with a helix,point to point.and I wish I had more too.But I know this is all I need
47 turnouts,a 7 1/2 foot yard,paper mill,steel mill, brewey, and an operating over seas
container yard that when compleated wiil have DCC operating cranes to load and unload container's.And I know I wanted more to include.But as I started construction
I found this was all I could take on.
I've been working on this now for two years,and I just finshed the upper-deck track work.I find myself thinking of a space as large as yours and can not fathom how I would fill so much space.
Good Luck on your Empire

[Anonymous]

My building is 28 by 40 ft. & my layout is 18 by 36 ft. & I can walk all the way around the outside. I still have plenty of space on the inside. By having a space around the outside
of the tables it helps to reach everything on 4ft. wide spaces.
I also have a table running down one wall that I'm going to make into yards. That table is 2ft. wide by 36ft. long & I have already made a steel bridge to cross the 3ft. gap.
So, to me size does matter. The larger the space the better. Build a seperate space for
a VCR or DVD watching area & a small snack bar. Put a small work shop for trains in there. When you get done w/a layout to fill the room, that will be too small. Then you can start something downstairs, like an N scale layout.
I figured if I ever won the lottery, I would build a building about the size you are talking about for my dream layout. Although I have been putting together train layouts for about 44 years, this one is my largest "so far". Shucks, in about 3 more years, I'm going to need more space to add on.

Larry

[citylimits]

Whilst I belive that too much space in usually not that much of a burden I do belief that with a model railroad that is too large either in size, the number of people it takes to build and maintain it, you can actually end up with a tiresome monster that is more demanding than a hungry cat. Considering that a model railroad is really a life long commitment and can often take years to build and that very few are ever finished to a point where there is no more work to do it makes sense to design and build a layout that will give you the maximum amount of fun in the smallest amount of space that you can work on without it all looming too large in your mind to a point where you would rather cut kindling wood than work on the layout.

HighIron2003ar makes agood point....Snip/ With the magnitude of that much space it is easy to feel "overwhelmed" and not do anything at all. If it was me, I would break the overall project down to several "towns" and areas such as Yard, engine areas etc and work on it one at a time"/snip.
Realising that this is true bought me back from the modeling wilderness after being away for several years as I was unable to come to grips with all of the space I had built a layout. I've reduced the layout size, freeing up some space in the garage to park my car and divided the layout into several diorama style sections that when finsihed will blend together to form something that is visually complete. Anyway, if it all seems like it is going to be too much like hard work and fun turns into a vocation then your layout is toooooooooooooo big.

[Anonymous]

Some rules of life:
1. You can never be too rich
2. You can never be too well armed
3. You can never have too much beer
4. Your model railroad can never be too big

[Anonymous]

Perhaps you have answered your own question. You mentioned G scale "wouldn't be that much of a problem." How many of us struggling with the maintenance of outdoor railroading in "G" wouldn't kill to have it all "under one roof." You shouldn't require the expense of stainless sreel rail and cleaning brass would be a breeze. Scratch building in "G" is nearly like working on your car compared to the smaller gauges. The deminsion, 48'X70' , is far less intimidating if you are modeling 29 to 1 rather than 87 to 1 or anything in between. D.C.C. would afford you far more operating options plus higher voltage through the rail for those long runs. The only real challange is getting started on "the right foot." There is room for your own car shops; even a light machine shop if time and finances
allow. If you prefer operating "solo," the larger gauge is probably the best solution. Green with envy!

[Anonymous]

I agree that there is definitely such a thing as too big of a layout. It will differ from person to person, but there is a point where it's too big, and there is also a point where you will find yourself making compromises to complete a larger layout.

While some people don't mind taking 30 years to build a masterpiece, others might rather get to a finished point in 2 (and even if you like the idea of taking 30 years to complete your masterpiece, think about the possibility of having to move for whatever reason). Some people will have bigger budgets than others. Some people will have more help than others (some people will want to do it all on their own to begin with). And some people have more talent and skills than others. Some people are going to detail their layouts a little more than others, and some layout styles are going to require more work per square foot than others (city-scape vs. middle of the desert, for example).

So I would take that and more into consideration when deciding how much of that space to use on a layout.

---jps

[Anonymous]

Yeah, if I had alot of space, I would build a huge layout. Why not? If you have the money and time to build it, go for it. It cost over $3 million dollars for one person's dream layout, Northlandz. I don't remember how large it is thought.

[danmerkel]

I've always felt that a layout should be judged more on its complexity than just its size. Let's say you have a 30x60 basement. It would be much easier to maintain a single loop of track that runs all of the way around the outside walls of that basement than it would a shelf-type layout along a short wall with 20-25 turnouts.

But you must also consider the costs of building it... wood, track, scenic materials, paint... it all adds up. If you start on a project that is so big that you would not be able to afford to finish it, then, yes, you could have too much space.

Finally, ask yourself if that is what you really want. Some might be much more content moving a dozen cars around on something resembling "The Timesaver" than rolling 50-car freights that take fifteen minutes to go from A to B.

One thing is for sure... just because you have the space, you don't have to fill it up.

dlm

[cwclark]

That room is perfect!...you can have a large yard, staging yard, and all the switching potential known to man!...you even have the room to put in a real railroad engine cab to run the trains...I have a 23' x 25' and still need more room but must be satisfied with what i do have...I'm not going to move again!...what a hassle!...nope...they're gonna just have to bury me with my trains in the backyard someday...anyway...70' x 48' is the perfect room for a perfect layout...Chuck

[egmurphy]

After 18 responses, there's probably nothing new to add, but that doesn't deter me.

I don't think you can have too much space, but I agree that you can be seduced by all the space and make a bad decision about how big to build.

I agree with the suggestions about crew lounge, workshop, display area, and designing an expandable trackplan that can be done in phases.

Good luck

Ed (envious [:P] of your good fortune)

[Big_Boy_4005]

Maybe the issue of large spaces is boiled down to this: for planning purposes large spaces are wonderful. There so many possibilities. But for turning them into real model railroads, they are a lot more difficult. There are a lot of practical issues that must be dealt with, all of which have already been mentioned here.

[Jetrock]

One thing you might consider is offer to host a club layout in the "barn"--this could provide a way to subsidize both the expense and the labor of an individual layout in such a space.

[RedLeader]

With so many trains to mantain, who could afford a family?[sigh]

[88gta350]

Build a sizeable crew lounge and a nicely equipped workshop. That'll cut down on the space a little, then start with what you feel comfortable and leave yourself the possibility to expand into the rest of the area. Or use it to show off Railroad memoribilia, etc...

[cmrproducts]

You can never have enough space to build a model railroad.

My latest layout is in a 25' x 75' basement and I would like to have it 4 feet wider, but it as it is it will keep me busy. I already have 2600 feet of track down and am working on the scenery.

Now how many people did it take to build this layout. I had the help of my 2 boys and this was usually only on weekends. All this was done in 5 years. The easy part (bench work and laying track) is done. Now the layout operates and the many building are being worked on one at a time.

We have twice a month OPs sessions and now that the major track work is done on the layout I am the one to do the scenery, backdrops etc. Yes it is going much slower now but this is my retirement project so I really do not have to get a lot done. In 4 years I will retire and finally have the time to devote some serious work to the layout.

As for maintenance if you build the layout as a low maintenance layout using proper techniques it will not use all of your time to keep it running. Take track cleaning for example putting metal polish on the rails has eliminated having to clean the track more than once a year, if then! All cars are weighted, wheels checked for gauge and Kadee’s put on before they are put on the layout. Each one is entered into a database as it is finished so that a maintenance record is kept on each car. If a car keeps causing trouble it will find a new home.

Don’t let anyone discourage you from having your dream layout.

BOB H Clarion, PA

[ClinchValleySD40]

It takes a lot of time and money to build something large. Then there is upkeep, maintenance. You know what you can afford. Once you decide how much you want to devote to the railroad, size becomes more relevant.

Larry

[Anonymous]

tatans

I think the man is no longer confused. He has had all the cobwebs cleared out and his world is bright and sharp with the prospect of a empire.

Heck, little old me is getting a bit more awake on the forums reading about a fellow hobbyist's good fortune.

=)

[tatans]

Just think: you could have one straight 70 foot section of track (Just like Saskatchewan) and FINALLY get to run that 75 car propane and dynamite freight train at 95 miles per hour. What a dream, what a decision, I don't think I am capable of making a decision like yours, I wish you the very best of luck. let us know about your decision. If you werent confused before, I'm sure you are now.

[Anonymous]

[:O][:O][bow][%-)] Ive never heard of that!

[Anonymous]

Start small, progress as large as you want as money provides. If you fill it all up to start with, you can't upgrade as time goes by. Someday, the whole thing will be filled up and all the locals can come run trains on it. I beleve DCC is the only way to go on a large layout. Digitrax is a good company, because it is easy to upgrade systems as time goes by. I have an Empire Builder II that I love using.

[Anonymous]

IF it were me and I could dedicate the space to trains, I would have some of the room for the layout (obviously), a room for the "common" library where operators could store some of their unwanted books and mags for others to read, a room for model building and repairs, a workshop, a room for dispatching and computer operations for dcc, the crew room and lounge, and evenly possibly a very small museum where you and others could display items that are meaningful. This would attract a very good operating crew which you would need to maintain the layout you have and get it built in a reasonable time frame. I would not let this layout be a "lone wolf" layout.

[IRONROOSTER]

While I would check out the heating/cooling costs, the main thing is to not create a maintenance nightmare. This means creating a group to help with the layout or keeping the track work relatively simple. With this kind of space you could have long stretches between towns, long sidings, etc and keep the number of turnouts reasonable. Put in an air filter system to help keep the dust under control.

I would also build a couple of return loops on wheels so that as you build the layout you can have one at each end. This provides early operation. And you may decide the layout is big enough before you fill the space.

Enjoy
Paul