At the present moment, I have a 10 train schedule that I run. I can stop the schedule at any location and pick-up when I feel like doing so. The schedule includes through trains and locals and east and west passenger trains. I treat the operations like a branch line, even though I model the Northern Pacific in 1953. Since I started my operations endeavor, scenery has taken a back seat and I have not done any in 2 years; or, so. At this point, I’m uncertain of operations as frankly it doesn’t really “Trip my Trigger”! I’m sort of thinking I need to get back to doing scenery; or, other mechanical/building parts of building the layout, which does “Twap my magic Twanger, Froggy”!!
NP 2626 "Northern Pacific, really terrific"
Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association: http://www.nprha.org/
I wonder how many Andy Devine fans know what you're talking about.
Tom
I would think if they knew Andy, they would know what "Thwapping a magic Twanger" was all about. You'ld need to be at least 60, I should think.
TheWizard I think enough at work.
I think enough at work.
Construction of my empire is not quite at a point where operations are practical (perhaps a year from now), but this sums up my feelings.
I envision days (because I go through them now) that by the end I may want to just railfan on my own railroad, or I may want to play the role of switching cars in a few industries, or I may want to run the local and switch some cars. I designed the layout with the ability of me to do any of those things, either alone or with help. In fact, it was laid out electrically (DCC) so that the added bonus could be eventually the computer playing the role of doing various other tasks while I do what I do.
But then again, I have never been big into prototypical operations. I don't have anything against it, it is just not the part of the hobby I enjoy to date (Tony K used to drive me batty). For me, it is more of an activity to help me maintain whatever sanity I have left (opinions on that subject will differ greatly).
- Mark
I use a seven day card car system so every day is different instead of replaying the same day over and over again. Some industries only send or receive cars on certain days. This can represent seasonal industries etc. I play the operation game like it's a board game, you draw the waybills from the deck and follow the train order cards to run trains. Not having a clock or other operators means I can start and stop at any time. I can operate for five minutes or several hours. All trains are self staging and can be ran around the loop as bridge traffic or be point to point as the locals are.
One thing that keeps it interesting is that the layout is eye level for in your face railroading. This means that you enjoy the scenery and details more. Also you run your trains a lot slower and distances seem farther. Instead of blowing through town you can check out local attractions.
Also I incorperate current events into my operation. If it is snowing in the mountains then I have to run the snow plows. If there is an earthquake or wildfire I have to deal with that and inspect the rails and do maintance. etc.
I don't operate like it's a job that has to be done. I see it more like a 3D video game. Play with it for a little while and then play some more later.
I play the same month over and over - but I doubt that I've ever duplicated a loose-car freight consist. Various industries order cars on certain days of the month - but actual delivery is predicated on the availability of suitable cars, the phase of the moon and whether it's worth swapping a cassetteload onto (or off) the layout.
My layout was designed to be operated solo or with a crew of several - but the crew has yet to materialize, so the rather frenetic timetable schedule (which includes EVERYTHING, even light movements of helpers downgrade) is operated as a sequence of events with NO fast clock. The fast clock is there - I update (up-hour/minute) it as the sequences play out - but trying to operate to it would be the impossible dream. There are 146 (!) trains to be run in a 4.8 hour 'day,' so the 'day' frequently ends up taking more than 24 real hours.
At those times when I don't want to be everything from Harry Dispatcher to the junior brake trainee in the local's guard van I operate double-ended passenger trains (DMU, EMU and the TTTs 4-wheel rail bus) and forego anything fancier. Or I might simply orbit a diesel powered through freight (no engine change required.)
I do find my style of operation fun - but it took me a lifetime to refine it.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
Thing is, I'm kind of an introvert, and I get enough extrovert time at work. When I get home, I just wanna do stuff by myself.
I have developed a system where I pull a nimber of cards to determime what I'm going to do next, and which loco is assigned to do it.
Connecticut Valley Railroad A Branch of the New York, New Haven, and Hartford
"If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right." -- Henry Ford
Inevitably, whatever the club situation is, somebody always wants to be in charge and tell others what to do. See the NMRA guys post. I like the control of my own stuff. I designed my railroad for me which is my outlet from the stresses of the real world. Also, it's my money that goes into it so i call all the shots.
Are we getting away from the main thrust of this thread? I thought the question was "What makes solo operation interesting?" We seem to have gotten into Why we operate solo, which could certainly be a separate topic on its' own.
NP2626 Are we getting away from the main thrust of this thread? I thought the question was "What makes solo operation interesting?" We seem to have gotten into Why we operate solo, which could certainly be a separate topic on its' own.
Guess I didn't see them as separate things. But to focus on the first question, well, Tony Koester has often described operations as a game. A game which simulates a business with all the paperwork and processes of a business. In contrast what specifically makes it interesting is it put a spotlight on the individual railroader and train. Doing it's job day in and day out. It's about the man and the machine rather than the business.
jim
I gotta agree with NP here. It's not going to be all that useful to spend a lot of time placing blame about why some of us operate alone. I really think that's a separate thread, because a lot of people operate by themselves and manage to do it just because it works for them. learning what works is what I think is the topic here.
I want to note that this really is not an either/or question. If you read through the comments, sure there are a few where the point seems to be to do nothing like what those "irritating operators" do. OK, if that bakes your cake for what fun is, go for it.
As someone who operates both singly and with others, it doesn't surprise me to read of the many singleton operators who actually incorporate various aspects of the often intensely overfocused ops crowd. Car cards, schedules, etc. Often, though, the clock is turned off, so that's something that sticks out to me right there. Many , maybe most of those who operate by themselves choose to use some aspects of standard ops practices. They adapt it to their own use, throw out the clock, and they're having fun.
OK, now we're getting somewhere.
Here's another comment I had that's a caution about going too far in the direction of "my layout fits me" so consequently you have very narrow aisles. OK, that works for you now. How about in 10 or 20 years when some personal "spread" takes place? How about if you have the misfortune and challenge of ending up using a wheelchair. Sure, it's just you, but if you can't get down those aisles later on...
Since I do operate both by myself and with others, there's also a subset here of people who continue the operating session in some way.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
ACY I wonder how many Andy Devine fans know what you're talking about. Tom
Yep...that sure "Jingles" my memory.....!!!:D
May your freight ALWAYS roll smoothly...and ON TIME!!
mlehmanAs someone who operates both singly and with others, it doesn't surprise me to read of the many singleton operators who actually incorporate various aspects of the often intensely overfocused ops crowd. Car cards, schedules, etc.
I will freely admit I follow the prototype..You will see no crash coupling,no slam! blam! switching operation and a stop will be made before picking a car up at a industry and time allowed for the brakeman to do his job such as unlocking and lining a switch and unlocking and opening the derail.After doing the required work time will be allowed for the brakeman to close and lock the detail and switch.
That's the real reason I prefer solo operation.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
I have never had a desire to join a club - mainly because I don't want that level of commitment and I spend summers at the cottage. So, I am solo runner and for me, it's fine. It does get me working on the RR over the winter, I am not held to any kind of a schedule and can work on everything at my pace. Every now and then there will be one or two other people, but those times are few and far between.
There's never time to do it right, but always time to do it over.....
mlehmanMany , maybe most of those who operate by themselves choose to use some aspects of standard ops practices. They adapt it to their own use, throw out the clock, and they're having fun.
Yea, that's me -- I live in a beach town that barely has a winter population, but is mobbed in the summer, and is many, many miles from any decent RR hobby shops (thank goodness for M.B. Klein :) ). My RR is around 3 walls in a spare bedroom, representing a single-track branch line with various small town and farm industries. My "ops" consists of blank 3x5 index cards that say "X industry - 1 reefer" and "Y industry - 1 tank car", with cards for each type of car (and number of them) an industry could get.
When I'm not working on the layout itself (it's about 1/2 built right now) or putting together a structrure model, I go to the card file, grab a random card for each current industry, setup the train on the removable fiddle track, and just go out and switch the industries. No pressure, no fast clock, just relaxing fun watching my train do its work.
Although I have been building my current layout for almost 14 years, model railroading is a cold weather hobby for me replace by golf when the weather turns warmer. I rarely touch the layout during golf season. I just got the layout fully scenicked at the end of last year and finally began full fledged operations. I didn't have a desire to do that with the layout only partially scenicked. I did a few operating sessions using car cards/waybills and found it interesting. I operate from a script rather than a fast clock. Tasks are performed in a logical sequence without concern for the time taken. I discovered a few bugs in my operating scheme that need to be worked out. Most notably staging yards overflowing at certain times. I didn't make them big enough. This year I got a very late start getting back into model railroading because I was preparing my home for a reverse mortgage and the appraisal that is an intergral part of that processs. I just got back to working on the layout a few weeks ago and a lot of maintenance is needed before I can get back to full blown operations.
With the limited amount of operations I have done, I have found it very satisfying making up trains, moving them over the layout according to the schedule, switching cars, and breaking up trains at the end of their run. My layout is a time machine which takes me back to the 1950s when I was very young. I run first generation diesels which I remember as well as late steam which I don't have many memories of. Although my layout is fictional, the goal is to make it seem like it could have existed. I think I have largely achieved that.
I'm old enough (63) to remember Andy Devine but I have to confess I don't remember those expressions. Mainly I remember him as Wild Bill Hickok's sidekick. Among other things he played a spinner of tall tales on a Twilight Zone episode and was the timid sheriff in one of my favorite westerns, The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance.
I have yet to know what makes solo operation enjoyable. After dismantling a sizeable layout at my friends house some years ago, we decided to create a modular layout to NMRA specs with the idea of inviting some other modelers to adopt one and build it to his concepts, very informal. My friend lost interest, but I put so much time into design and construction that I decided to finish the layout in that form. In hindsight I think that I should have recycled the materials into a smaller layout unit with solo operation in mind.
Like CTValley (south of me on I-95) I am an introvert at heart. There is a local club (literally across the street!) that I have made inquiries about, seen their show exhibits, and even attended one of their monthly meetings, and got a pretty cold shoulder. There were about fifteen to twenty guys at the meeting and not one approached the obviously new guy to chat. At the Amherst show I approached one of the members, told him my proximity to their operation...yawwn! was about all I got out of him. I resigned that this was not going to be a good match for me and dismissed the idea.
I enjoy my winter evenings working on the layout, any evening tackling whatever aspect I want to focus on that night. Still sometimes I wish I had someone like my old friend to bounce ideas off of, and maybe show off my latest accomplishment.
My answer is simple: Scenery. I enjoy switching the new industry or crossing the new bridge. I can be happy enough just looping trains over the rivers and through the woods, too.
I'm adding flashers at one grade crossing and gates at another as my current project. That will add nothing to the operation effort, as they will be totally automatic, but they will greatly enhance the operating experience. It will be 2 more smiles every time around the layout.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Those who are interested in purposeful operation (solo or multi-person) would be well-advised to investigate the Operations Special Interest Group.
mlehman Often, though, the clock is turned off, so that's something that sticks out to me right there.
The same is true for many multi-person operating schemes built around a sequence timetable.
I operate with others and also on my own. As I wrote about in Ops Fun for One, I find that incorporating seasonality and shifts adds variety to solo operation.
Another thing that I enjoy is using small tabs of paper to represent the brakemen on the ground. This adds the challenge of trying to switch the job, not in the shortest amount of time or the fewest number of moves, but in a way that minimizes the amount of walking that would have been done by the crew members in coupling/uncoupling, throwing switch points, flagging, setting brakes, etc. I've operated with a number of professional railroaders who have shown me how real crews usually work to allow the crew to ride or stay in one place as much as possible.
This adds a lot of interest and challenge for me, both when operating solo and in multi-operator sessions when I can work without interfering with others, such as on an isolated branch job.
Layout Design GalleryLayout Design Special Interest Group
HaroldAI have never had a desire to join a club - mainly because I don't want that level of commitment and I spend summers at the cottage. So, I am solo runner and for me, it's fine. It does get me working on the RR over the winter, I am not held to any kind of a schedule and can work on everything at my pace. Every now and then there will be one or two other people, but those times are few and far between.
Harold,
Just a guess on my part but if everyone who liked trains had plenty of money and a nice basement they owned, there would probably be fewer if any clubs. I mean, who wouldn't want to do things their way if they had a choice? Clubs, generally are for people who don't have their own space, or in some cases, don't have the skills to build their own RR. Moral of the story, count your blessings and have a little sympathy for those not so fortunate.
Back on topic: Lots of going points for solo operation. Layout design is a big part of it as NP2626 pointed out, John Armstrongs "Track Planning for Realistic Operation" is a good read - I wore out my copy. Treating running trains like a game based on the real thing helps to make things interesting when just railfanning gets boring.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
MisterBeasley My answer is simple: Scenery. I enjoy switching the new industry or crossing the new bridge. I can be happy enough just looping trains over the rivers and through the woods, too. I'm adding flashers at one grade crossing and gates at another as my current project. That will add nothing to the operation effort, as they will be totally automatic, but they will greatly enhance the operating experience. It will be 2 more smiles every time around the layout.
Most in this thread most are using the - I like doing scenery - building the layout etc as an excuse to Operate Solo.
DO YOU think that those of us that that host OPs with more than ONE person - do NOT like the same things???
We do - it is just that we also like to see our layout come to life with more than ME running it. After having sunk $$$$$ into building a layout - I think others would like to run YOUR layout to see how you built it - the layout of the Towns etc.Etc. Running a train around the layout lets others see all of your great work.
Hiding it in your Basement/Garage/Attic from everyone else wanting to admire your work - seems a bit that you are afraid to let others know you PLAY With TRAINS!
We like to see the layout run like a miniature Railroad using multiple Operators to get the JOB done.
Operations whether by ONE or MANY accomplishes the same thing - it is just that having a layout capable to handle 2 operators or 20 - just makes the layout seem more like a real railroad as one has to consider how to keep the mainline open for the Thru trains - Yet getting your work done!
It is a 3D game! - nothing more - nothing less!
Some try to make OPs out as WORK - IF you are making the session into work for you - then don't do that job!
So simple Yet - everyone is so busy making excuses thay miss what running trains is all about!
Having FUN!
BOB H - Clarion, PA
cmrproductsMost in this thread most are using the - I like doing scenery - building the layout etc as an excuse to Operate Solo. DO YOU think that those of us that that host OPs with more than ONE person - do NOT like the same things???
Bob,
I don't think anyone is saying anything like that.
I think after two posts, people do get the point that you can't really conceive of having fun operating on your own. But that's not really the topic here. It's how to manage to enjoy your layout operating alone. Maybe you do have something to contribute more along those lines? Otherwise, maybe you and a couple of the clearly anti-operations folks can have it out in another thread?
Beacuse I'm not sure finding points of conflict is as useful as sharing what we each value so that others can pick and choose what they enjoy. Ultimately, that's one of the strengths of operating alone -- and a challenge sometimes -- is how to do that and be entertained when there aren't others there to share the experience -- for whatever reason. Because if you're not having fun when operating alone, it's up to you to fix that. There's no one else to blame.
There are a number of video games out there that can be played as a single player or multiple players. It's still the same game. Seems to me it's the same for model railroading. I operate my layout by myself, but I'm still "operating" the layout. I make up trains, switch industries, etc. I get the same enjoyment from it as someone taking part in a large home or club layout's 'operating sessions' gets. Since I am building the layout to have what I want to have on it, everything on the layout is basically there for my satisfaction.
Good point, stix. That's certainly a viable approach, although those who do just enjoy watching the trains go round may differ.
And if the layout is still under construction and operation is your goal, a very good idea, because it helps sort out things that are working from those that aren't. In fact, I was reading where someone was quoting Byron (cuyama) on this the other day, "Operate early and often..." or words to that effect, in order to verify how the plan meets the needs of operators.
BTW, was going to mention this earlier, but Joe and jecorbett both offer good examples of taking what you like about operations with groups and distilling it down to what works for you, alone. There are no hard and fast rules here, just what leads to fun and excitement, rather than boredom.
jecorbett ACY I wonder how many Andy Devine fans know what you're talking about. Tom I'm old enough (63) to remember Andy Devine but I have to confess I don't remember those expressions. Mainly I remember him as Wild Bill Hickok's sidekick. Among other things he played a spinner of tall tales on a Twilight Zone episode and was the timid sheriff in one of my favorite westerns, The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance.
NP2626 jecorbett ACY I wonder how many Andy Devine fans know what you're talking about. Tom I'm old enough (63) to remember Andy Devine but I have to confess I don't remember those expressions. Mainly I remember him as Wild Bill Hickok's sidekick. Among other things he played a spinner of tall tales on a Twilight Zone episode and was the timid sheriff in one of my favorite westerns, The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance. jecorbett, The "Thwap your magic Twanger, Froggy" quote is from a Saturday morning show called Andy's Gang. The star of the show was of course Andy Devive. Froggy was a frog puppet who was always causing trouble. The show had serial shows and skit type of short comedy sections with many different puppet or animal characters. The show ended in the early 60s, maybe even 1960. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy%27s_Gang will get you some more in-depth information. Sorry to have derailed the topic a bit, here!
Don't apologize. I think for many of us, nostalgia plays a big part in our interest in model railroading. I do have vague memories of that puppet show of which a Wild Bill Hickock episode was a big part and I thought it was part of the Saturday morning lineup along with a Hanna-Barberra cartoon series called Ruff and Ready about a dog and cat pals. I'm pretty sure Ruff was the same voice they used for Huckleberry Hound. I was born in 1951 so I really only remember the last few years of the Wild Bill Hickok show. I think I have one vivid memory of the show that maybe you can confirm for me. Either at the beginning or the end they played a clip of Andy riding to catch up to Wild Bill and calling out, "Hey, Bill, wait for me". Is that an accurate recollection?
Yep, Pardner, that's an accurate memory! I was a huge Wild Bill fan. I was actually shocked later in adulthood to find out what a scoundrel he really was and that he looked nothing like Guy Madison!
Jim
Raised on the Erie Lackawanna Mainline- Supt. of the Black River Transfer & Terminal R.R.
I enjoy solo operation as an escape from the sensory overload of life. This is very important as I have Aspergers Syndrome and prefer lots of solitary time after dealing with work and the stress of everyday life. My layout, as well as layouts of the other members of the local club all interchange freight with each other. So I always have a local freight to run. I get my weekly fill of operation with others at the clubhouse. But after a stressfull day at work or out at a social gathering, the solitude of running a local freight is very relaxing for me. I dont even use sound, my mind fills in those blanks with all the ground shaking bass when I ease a heavy freight into motion with one of my steamers. Mikie
Silly NT's, I have Asperger's Syndrome
Capt. Grimek Yep, Pardner, that's an accurate memory! I was a huge Wild Bill fan. I was actually shocked later in adulthood to find out what a scoundrel he really was and that he looked nothing like Guy Madison! Jim
World Harvest Television which is a religous channel fills their afternoon lineup with some classic westerns which I'm betting they can get for a song. Right now they are playing Lone Ranger and Roy Roger reruns but a few years ago they were playing Annie Oakley and the Cisco Kid (colorized) reruns. A lot of those 1950s westerns have been preserved on DVD. I'm going to look into seeing if Wild Bill Hickok is available.