A club I belonged to had some type of radio system, may have been Aristo, I can’t remember. It was good system; however, the club had no blocks in their layout, just a double tracked loop with a branch line. One throttle was hooked to one of the mains and the other to the other. Pretty simple.
NP 2626 "Northern Pacific, really terrific"
Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association: http://www.nprha.org/
Soo Line fanAnd i have a suspicion a better less costly system may be on the horizon.
Russell
cuyama BroadwayLion Block Control is far more prototypical than DCC. Block Control is how the signal systems work. Obviously Railroads are not controlling power such as we are, they do not need to, but the authority to occuupy the track is conveyed by the signal blocks. This is posted often, but is false. As you yourself note, the central dispatcher does not have control over the speed of individual trains in real life. Individual engineers do. And most signal systems don't work by "block control", even defining it broadly and charitably. For the majority of railroad miles in the US, there were no signals at all. And of the signaled miles, a relatively low percentage were CTC. DC is fine, DCC is fine. But there is no benefit to anyone in incorrect statements.
BroadwayLion Block Control is far more prototypical than DCC. Block Control is how the signal systems work. Obviously Railroads are not controlling power such as we are, they do not need to, but the authority to occuupy the track is conveyed by the signal blocks.
This is posted often, but is false. As you yourself note, the central dispatcher does not have control over the speed of individual trains in real life. Individual engineers do. And most signal systems don't work by "block control", even defining it broadly and charitably.
For the majority of railroad miles in the US, there were no signals at all. And of the signaled miles, a relatively low percentage were CTC.
DC is fine, DCC is fine. But there is no benefit to anyone in incorrect statements.
Yes but for those of us modeling a CTC controlled railroad, signaling and block control can work hand in hand.
Sheldon
DigitalGriffin PM Railfan And the cost of doing so would be unfathomable. I never understood that argument. A GOOD starter 3 Amp DCC system is $160. DCC decoders are $25 each. That's less then the cost of some RTR cars. That said you will never have to worry about non-availability DC equipment. All DCC equiped products these days are DC backwards compatible. It makes no sense for manufacturers to remove this backwards compatibility because it restricts their market. It's practically a freebee to have backwards compatibility in there.
PM Railfan And the cost of doing so would be unfathomable.
I never understood that argument. A GOOD starter 3 Amp DCC system is $160. DCC decoders are $25 each. That's less then the cost of some RTR cars.
That said you will never have to worry about non-availability DC equipment. All DCC equiped products these days are DC backwards compatible. It makes no sense for manufacturers to remove this backwards compatibility because it restricts their market. It's practically a freebee to have backwards compatibility in there.
It is alway easy to talk about low "starter costs". I'm not a beginner in this hobby, here is what I would need to convert my model railroad to DCC:
120 decoders - 120 x $25 = $3,000
8 wireless throttles - 8 x $125 = $1,000
several boosters - at whatever cost
and of course the base station and some reversers.
I'm not intertested in going "backwards" in the shope of my layout to get the few extra features DCC would add. Especially considering I do not like sound in the small scales, I have no need for "ditch lights", all my MU'd and double headed locos run just fine on DC, and my operational scheme does not include helper service.
I have no fears about non-availablity of DC equipment, I remove decoders, and sometimes sound decoders from locos all the time to make them compatable with my PWM Aristo Train Engineer throttles.
cuyama ATLANTIC CENTRAL You should learn about signaling - it really adds a new demension And the more one learns about signaling, the more one will understand that it works fine on DCC, too. DC is fine, DCC is fine. Either can work well with signals.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL You should learn about signaling - it really adds a new demension
And the more one learns about signaling, the more one will understand that it works fine on DCC, too.
DC is fine, DCC is fine. Either can work well with signals.
Yes, in fact the signal system I use will work with DCC, I never implied other wise.
Fact is that adding a signal system is a complex and expensive part of model railroading with or without DCC. DCC surely does not make signaling any easier.
BroadwayLionBlock Control is far more prototypical than DCC. Block Control is how the signal systems work. Obviously Railroads are not controlling power such as we are, they do not need to, but the authority to occuupy the track is conveyed by the signal blocks.
Layout Design GalleryLayout Design Special Interest Group
ATLANTIC CENTRALYou should learn about signaling - it really adds a new demension
PM RailfanAnd the cost of doing so would be unfathomable.
Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions
Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!
I am still using DC. Its not like I am anti technology. I am anti technology for the sake of technology. At work we are currently up to 50 processors per vehicle. While this means job security, it becomes a maintenance burden for owners after the warranty expires. We have slowly conditioned people to want all these features and to pay for them.
So when it comes to a hobby, I am skeptical that I need to change a perfectly working layout just to say I did.
700 for decoders and 200 for a controller is way more than i want to spend. And i have a suspicion a better less costly system may be on the horizon.
Jim
Wireless hand held throttles are nice....too late in game for me to switch, tethered hand held's are fine for me. With a 3 cab block control system, I can run a East bound main train, a west bound main train on the double track mainline and with the 3 cab, jump on any main I want in either direction and go to a siding with a train and do my switching of industries while the mains are still running without having to stop them to do so. My grandkids can do it....that is why my track plan is laid out on the panel, so You know where the blocks are. Simple to learn if just starting out, by just turning off the block before the one you are in, so the one or two mains running do not run into Your train. You have exactly so many minutes to get off the mains before the trains come by...that's the fun part.....the kid's enjoy it.
Take Care!
Frank
richhotrain ATLANTIC CENTRAL OK Rich, you answered my next question. I was going to ask how you control turnouts. I do remember your trackplan from earlier postings. So my operation as a lone operator is not much different than yours, I walk around with my wireless throttle and set turnout routes on local panels with a push of one button as well - and then I push one more button, on that same local panel, to assign the next track section. Complex power routing through the interlocking, as well as signal indications are all set automaticly by those two actions. Here is where we differ - I have no desire to keep track of two or more trains on the same route/track at the same time when operating by myself - I have operated DCC layouts where guys try to do that - no thank you. Sheldon, My layout is centered around a double mainline, each mainline measuring 168 feet, so there is plenty of room to operate multiple trains. Running two trains at the same time at different speeds on each mainline is no big deal, even for a lone wolf. At the same time, I can perform switching operations between my downtown passenger station and coach yard. From what I understand about DC, I cannot do that. If I could, that would be great. I have no axe to grind with DC users. I could care less about who uses DC and who uses DCC other than to be fascinated with both systems and all kinds of layouts. doctorwayne, for example, has one of the most beautiful layouts that I have ever seen. He operates in DC, never runs more than one train at a time. He walks around the layout following that train. That is fine by me. Sounds pretty cool, and I am still waiting for an invite to visit Wayne and see his layout in operation. What I care about is multiple train operation on multiple tracks. Why not? That's how it works on the prototype. The railroads don't run one train at a time. So, why should I settle for a single train operation. I don't need 168 feet of mainline to run one train. Like most model railroad layouts, mine is one of selective compression. Yeah, it's only 168 feet of mainline, 2.75 scale miles, but it supposedly represents about 50 miles of prototype track. If I only ran one train at a time, I would cut back significantly. Rich
ATLANTIC CENTRAL OK Rich, you answered my next question. I was going to ask how you control turnouts. I do remember your trackplan from earlier postings. So my operation as a lone operator is not much different than yours, I walk around with my wireless throttle and set turnout routes on local panels with a push of one button as well - and then I push one more button, on that same local panel, to assign the next track section. Complex power routing through the interlocking, as well as signal indications are all set automaticly by those two actions. Here is where we differ - I have no desire to keep track of two or more trains on the same route/track at the same time when operating by myself - I have operated DCC layouts where guys try to do that - no thank you.
OK Rich, you answered my next question. I was going to ask how you control turnouts. I do remember your trackplan from earlier postings.
So my operation as a lone operator is not much different than yours, I walk around with my wireless throttle and set turnout routes on local panels with a push of one button as well - and then I push one more button, on that same local panel, to assign the next track section. Complex power routing through the interlocking, as well as signal indications are all set automaticly by those two actions.
Here is where we differ - I have no desire to keep track of two or more trains on the same route/track at the same time when operating by myself - I have operated DCC layouts where guys try to do that - no thank you.
Sheldon,
My layout is centered around a double mainline, each mainline measuring 168 feet, so there is plenty of room to operate multiple trains. Running two trains at the same time at different speeds on each mainline is no big deal, even for a lone wolf. At the same time, I can perform switching operations between my downtown passenger station and coach yard.
From what I understand about DC, I cannot do that. If I could, that would be great. I have no axe to grind with DC users. I could care less about who uses DC and who uses DCC other than to be fascinated with both systems and all kinds of layouts.
doctorwayne, for example, has one of the most beautiful layouts that I have ever seen. He operates in DC, never runs more than one train at a time. He walks around the layout following that train. That is fine by me. Sounds pretty cool, and I am still waiting for an invite to visit Wayne and see his layout in operation.
What I care about is multiple train operation on multiple tracks. Why not? That's how it works on the prototype. The railroads don't run one train at a time. So, why should I settle for a single train operation. I don't need 168 feet of mainline to run one train. Like most model railroad layouts, mine is one of selective compression. Yeah, it's only 168 feet of mainline, 2.75 scale miles, but it supposedly represents about 50 miles of prototype track. If I only ran one train at a time, I would cut back significantly.
Rich
Rich,
Actually I could run two trains on the same loop at the same time by myself, sitting at the dispatchers panel would be the easiest way to do that, lots of DC operators have done it over the years - I just don't/won't - not even if I had DCC.
And my system would be one of the easiest to do it with, short of even more sofisticated stuff like computerized block control.
My mainline loops are over 300' long, and devided into plenty of sections (blocks), but I just don't like the idea. If I missed a cab assignment, the train would just stop, but it would be an emergency stop - it hits dead track.
I will put trains on isolated loops and let them run - I like dispay running.
I will admit, I'm not good with any of these computer like/cell phone like throttles where you "toggle" to different functions, or between different trains, have small buttons like Digitrax, or endess wheel knobs, or have small displays to read (or worse obscure little "icons").
In my view, the Digitrax 400 throttle is a nightmare, and most of the other brands are not much better. This is actually one of the reasons I rejected DCC both times I stopped and gave it serious consideration - poor user interface design - and high cost in my application.
You should learn about signaling - it really adds a new demension.
Off to work now,
Alton Junction
Well, the Flint Hills Northern runs on straight DC; always has, always will. While I'd love to have DCC, I also have over 60 locos, so the cost alone of converting would be prohibitive. And no, I can't run all of the locos at once. More like 2 or 3 at the outside - Usually 1, but sometimes 2.
---
Gary M. Collins gmcrailgNOSPAM@gmail.com
===================================
"Common Sense, Ain't!" -- G. M. Collins
http://fhn.site90.net
I do I do. I have 25 blocks on my layout and over 50 locos (not all used at once). Since I usually operate alone I don't need DCC. The blocks I will use are printed on my train order cards so I know exactly which switches to throw on the control panels. I only have permission to occupy those tracks so it works out perfect.
I could leave a train orbiting the layout while I do some local switching but I'd rather let it be in suspended animation so I can just concentrate on one train at a time. As for sound, I play some music and try to block out the noise.
BRAKIE Doughless BTW, the whole reason I went with the Aristo throttle is because I needed to cover 35 feet and didn't want a tethered plug in system like the CM20. The superior lighting and excellent slow speed control was a pleasant surprise. I agree.Those Aristo throttles is sweet..I have used them on a friends layout and really like the feel and of course the locomotive control.. I still have my CM20 and a 30 year old MRC Tech II that still works.. My "poor man's DCC" is a MRC Tech 6 with its matching hand held throttle.
Doughless BTW, the whole reason I went with the Aristo throttle is because I needed to cover 35 feet and didn't want a tethered plug in system like the CM20. The superior lighting and excellent slow speed control was a pleasant surprise.
I agree.Those Aristo throttles is sweet..I have used them on a friends layout and really like the feel and of course the locomotive control..
I still have my CM20 and a 30 year old MRC Tech II that still works..
My "poor man's DCC" is a MRC Tech 6 with its matching hand held throttle.
A few more quick points in response to a several posts all related to this one.
Yes, the Aristo throttles provide nice control, and have momentum, if desired. The push button operation of them is more like a real loco than a knob, and even in the minimum momentum setting there is a natural, gental ramp up/ramp down in the speed control.
Doughless, despite how this conversation has dirfted, I for one have always acknowledged the lone operator with no need for blocks. I know a modeler here in our area with a layout concept similar to yours, and like us, he uses the Aristo throttle on his basement filling industrial switching layout - with no seperate blocks, just a few kill zones to store locos.
DoughlessBTW, the whole reason I went with the Aristo throttle is because I needed to cover 35 feet and didn't want a tethered plug in system like the CM20. The superior lighting and excellent slow speed control was a pleasant surprise.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
richhotrain ATLANTIC CENTRAL richhotrain Is it possible to automate block control, so that it is unnecessary to flip switches when entering/exiting blocks? Yes, it is. It has been done many times. it is called coputerized block control. there is one "plug and play" type product on the market that does it. There are several guys who will build you custom microprocessor systems, or you can roll your own. I considered it as well and decided I did not need that either. Rich, in the explaination of my control system do you understand that if a dispatcher is on duty the operators do not have to flip any switches, push any buttons, they just run the train? And, even without the dispatcher, in walk around mode, they is no big complex control panel to "operate". As you walk around the layout, there are small tower panels at interlockings - the same kind of thing most DCC layouts have for turnout control. You set the turnout route through the interlocking by pushing one button, even if it is a complex route through two, three, four or more turnouts, and then you push one additiona button to assign your cab to the desired track section on the other side of the interlocking. Two buttons. How many buttons do you have to push to throw a turnout on a Digitrax throttle? It is more than two. After pushing those two buttons, you trains has green signals until the next interlocking along the line. Sheldon My disadvantage, if that's what it is, is that I never operated block control DC, so I don't have a lot of familiarity with it. That's great if you have a dispatcher throwing switches, but as a lone wolf with a large layout and a desire to run multiple trains simultaneously, DCC seemed to be the logical alternative back when I started in HO scale eleven years ago. With my NCE PH-Pro system, I use Switch-Its and Switch-8's along with a Mini Panel to automate and control routes. Push one button and you're done. I am not knocking DC. In many ways, it seems cool. I just have no real familiarity with it. Rich
ATLANTIC CENTRAL richhotrain Is it possible to automate block control, so that it is unnecessary to flip switches when entering/exiting blocks? Yes, it is. It has been done many times. it is called coputerized block control. there is one "plug and play" type product on the market that does it. There are several guys who will build you custom microprocessor systems, or you can roll your own. I considered it as well and decided I did not need that either. Rich, in the explaination of my control system do you understand that if a dispatcher is on duty the operators do not have to flip any switches, push any buttons, they just run the train? And, even without the dispatcher, in walk around mode, they is no big complex control panel to "operate". As you walk around the layout, there are small tower panels at interlockings - the same kind of thing most DCC layouts have for turnout control. You set the turnout route through the interlocking by pushing one button, even if it is a complex route through two, three, four or more turnouts, and then you push one additiona button to assign your cab to the desired track section on the other side of the interlocking. Two buttons. How many buttons do you have to push to throw a turnout on a Digitrax throttle? It is more than two. After pushing those two buttons, you trains has green signals until the next interlocking along the line. Sheldon
richhotrain Is it possible to automate block control, so that it is unnecessary to flip switches when entering/exiting blocks?
Is it possible to automate block control, so that it is unnecessary to flip switches when entering/exiting blocks?
Yes, it is. It has been done many times. it is called coputerized block control. there is one "plug and play" type product on the market that does it. There are several guys who will build you custom microprocessor systems, or you can roll your own.
I considered it as well and decided I did not need that either.
Rich, in the explaination of my control system do you understand that if a dispatcher is on duty the operators do not have to flip any switches, push any buttons, they just run the train?
And, even without the dispatcher, in walk around mode, they is no big complex control panel to "operate". As you walk around the layout, there are small tower panels at interlockings - the same kind of thing most DCC layouts have for turnout control. You set the turnout route through the interlocking by pushing one button, even if it is a complex route through two, three, four or more turnouts, and then you push one additiona button to assign your cab to the desired track section on the other side of the interlocking. Two buttons.
How many buttons do you have to push to throw a turnout on a Digitrax throttle? It is more than two.
After pushing those two buttons, you trains has green signals until the next interlocking along the line.
My disadvantage, if that's what it is, is that I never operated block control DC, so I don't have a lot of familiarity with it.
That's great if you have a dispatcher throwing switches, but as a lone wolf with a large layout and a desire to run multiple trains simultaneously, DCC seemed to be the logical alternative back when I started in HO scale eleven years ago.
With my NCE PH-Pro system, I use Switch-Its and Switch-8's along with a Mini Panel to automate and control routes. Push one button and you're done.
I am not knocking DC. In many ways, it seems cool. I just have no real familiarity with it.
My layout was purposely planned with "display loops" intergrated into it. I can run several trains on display loops while actually "operating" an additional train. But to actually operate two or more trains on the same route, I perfer and require a seperate operator for each train - with or without a dispatcher.
My layout is also designed with most industrial switching completely off the mainline - like a whole seperate ISL (industrial switching layout) apart from the mainline layout, but connected to it, similar to the industrial "belt lines" found in most industrial cities.
An operator can work the industries, while two more work the yard/engine terminal, while four operators/trains run on the mainline and one operates the branch line.
In real life trains don't move without "permission". That permission comes from a chain of command - dispatcher to conductor to engineer. Engineers are only responsable for operating the locomotive as directed by the dispatcher and conductor.
Model CTC systems do just like the real railroad - the dispatcher uses mainly signals and a published timetable to control train movements - a system like mine simulates that.
I could use DCC to control the locos, but it would cost a lot more and only add a few features - features I don't really need.
Rich, for a lot of people, for a lot of reasons, DCC is the best choice. But for me, with my desire for signaling and CTC, DCC would easily add $3000 or more to the cost of my layout.
120 non sound decoders alone at $25 each - even if we assume 8 wireless throttles and all the other infrastructure could be had for what I have invested in my eight Aristo throttles, which I doubt. All the rest of my control system would still be needed for the detection, signaling, CTC and turnout control.
And the "you don't have to convert all your locos at once" line is a red herring. The layout and its operational scheme are designed for 25 to 30 staged trains, most mainline trains require 3-4 powered diesels or two steam locos. 30 trains x 3 powered units = 90 locos, plus switchers, power changes, backups - to run the layout I need all 120 locos.
mlehman richhotrain Being unfamiliar with DC block control, I have to ask this question. Is it possible to automate block control, so that it is unnecessary to flip switches when entering/exiting blocks? Rich and Dave, That's exactly what Sheldon's system does. It automates power control and eliminates orienting all those cab power control switches. It's a sweet design and does overcome many of the same issues in DC that DCC does.
richhotrain Being unfamiliar with DC block control, I have to ask this question. Is it possible to automate block control, so that it is unnecessary to flip switches when entering/exiting blocks?
Rich and Dave,
That's exactly what Sheldon's system does. It automates power control and eliminates orienting all those cab power control switches. It's a sweet design and does overcome many of the same issues in DC that DCC does.
To be slightly more accurate, my system cuts the number of switches in half, but more importantly they are not toggles or rotary switches in a fixed location - they are pushbuttons that are redundantly repeated at both ends of each track section and on the dispacters panel.
It is a kind of semi automation - you pick a track section and turnout route and the power is routed automaticly as needed.
Remember - it all fully intergrated - detection, signaling, CTC, turnout routing. they all work together - each turnout has relay, that relay directs power, operates signal circuits through the interlocking and powers frogs. Signals do not go green and power is not avaialbe unless a clear route is selected.
No clear route through the interlocking creates dead buffer sections that sop trains from overrunning their signal - Automatic Train Control.
Detection indicator lights show where your train and other trains are on local tower and dispatcher panels.
ATLANTIC CENTRALExcept for the desire for sound, I cannot understand what any lone operator running one train at a time would want about DCC?
I have a very poor excuse for a railroad. More of a glorified loop maybe 9-1/2 by 17. Being by myself, I can really only run one train at a time. But being a typical model rail, I have more than one loco on the tracks here and there. Since nothing is set in stone, I don't want a central control panel. I don't want to deal with toggle switches to have locos other than the one I'm running stand still. And I don't want to deal with power routing turnouts.
I have decoders controlling the few turnouts I have. Although some day I may have local push button panels to throw those turnouts, right now I can control them with the hand controller. And until that day comes, I don't need a central control panel that may need to be modified if I make a change.
I don't have a simplified DCC system. I have the 5 amp PowerPro NCE command station. This is because the PowerCab system that would probably have done all the same things was not available when I jumped in. I do not regret the purchase.
There, those are my reasons, and I didn't mention sound.
Hopefully this will help you understand.
richhotrain ATLANTIC CENTRAL BroadwayLion Block Control is far more prototypical than DCC. Block Control is how the signal systems work. Obviously Railroads are not controlling power such as we are, they do not need to, but the authority to occuupy the track is conveyed by the signal blocks. Idealy, a scale block would have no power on it. When the signal is cleared for a train to proceed, the power from the block that the train is on is routed to the block that it is entering. While your engineering is more complicated than that, the practice is not. What DCC buys you in NOT ease of operation, operation becomes far more difficult, but it simplifies wiring and construction, and for a large layout would be far less expensive than the cost and labor of a DC wired layout. ROAR Great explaination Lion - and this is also why I decided to stay DC with signaling and CTC. Sheldon Being unfamiliar with DC block control, I have to ask this question. Is it possible to automate block control, so that it is unnecessary to flip switches when entering/exiting blocks? Rich
ATLANTIC CENTRAL BroadwayLion Block Control is far more prototypical than DCC. Block Control is how the signal systems work. Obviously Railroads are not controlling power such as we are, they do not need to, but the authority to occuupy the track is conveyed by the signal blocks. Idealy, a scale block would have no power on it. When the signal is cleared for a train to proceed, the power from the block that the train is on is routed to the block that it is entering. While your engineering is more complicated than that, the practice is not. What DCC buys you in NOT ease of operation, operation becomes far more difficult, but it simplifies wiring and construction, and for a large layout would be far less expensive than the cost and labor of a DC wired layout. ROAR Great explaination Lion - and this is also why I decided to stay DC with signaling and CTC. Sheldon
BroadwayLion Block Control is far more prototypical than DCC. Block Control is how the signal systems work. Obviously Railroads are not controlling power such as we are, they do not need to, but the authority to occuupy the track is conveyed by the signal blocks. Idealy, a scale block would have no power on it. When the signal is cleared for a train to proceed, the power from the block that the train is on is routed to the block that it is entering. While your engineering is more complicated than that, the practice is not. What DCC buys you in NOT ease of operation, operation becomes far more difficult, but it simplifies wiring and construction, and for a large layout would be far less expensive than the cost and labor of a DC wired layout. ROAR
Block Control is far more prototypical than DCC.
Block Control is how the signal systems work. Obviously Railroads are not controlling power such as we are, they do not need to, but the authority to occuupy the track is conveyed by the signal blocks.
Idealy, a scale block would have no power on it. When the signal is cleared for a train to proceed, the power from the block that the train is on is routed to the block that it is entering. While your engineering is more complicated than that, the practice is not.
What DCC buys you in NOT ease of operation, operation becomes far more difficult, but it simplifies wiring and construction, and for a large layout would be far less expensive than the cost and labor of a DC wired layout.
ROAR
Great explaination Lion - and this is also why I decided to stay DC with signaling and CTC.
Being unfamiliar with DC block control, I have to ask this question.
Yes, it is. It has been done many times. it is called computerized block control. there is one "plug and play" type product on the market that does it. There are several guys who will build you custom microprocessor systems, or you can roll your own.
And, even without the dispatcher, in walk around mode, there is no big complex control panel to "operate". As you walk around the layout, there are small tower panels at interlockings - the same kind of thing most DCC layouts have for turnout control. You set the turnout route through the interlocking by pushing one button, even if it is a complex route through two, three, four or more turnouts, and then you push one additional button to assign your cab to the desired track section on the other side of the interlocking. Two buttons.
So, am I to interpret this to mean that DC users enjoy flipping switches as a train runs through blocks because it is prototypical?
Are we saying that it is simply more fun?
richhotrainIs it possible to automate block control, so that it is unnecessary to flip switches when entering/exiting blocks?
Of course it is, it would be complicated it. I have seen it done with stepping switches.
My point was that such was not necessary. Power is lined up by the tower operator along with the track alignment and signals. Of course most layouts do not have a tower of any sort. But it is prototypical for a train to wait for the route to be set up for it.
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NP2626 I get the distinct impression in these types of discussions, that people feel it’s necessary to justify their decision to go one way; or the other. That’s why the can become heated. Well, I don’ need to justify why I went the way I went and don’t feel you need to justify why you went the way you went. Simply put, we each saw something we wanted, and went for it! Should be enough said!
Well, I don’ need to justify why I went the way I went and don’t feel you need to justify why you went the way you went.
The explanation part is the interesting part of the discussion, and is not necessarily a justification, IMO.
I have a large layout that runs one train at a time using a one train throttle. As near as I can tell by reading comments on this forum, by comparison to others, that situation is an outlier of extreme proportion. But I bet that there are other modelers who have similar circumstances, although not exact, and would benefit from an explanation of my situation. That helps a reader compare their situation to mine so that they can make an informed decision. I'm not trying to justify my decision to anyone.
But the thread is partially about DC block control so I'll drop out.
- Douglas
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Except for the desire for sound, I cannot understand what any lone operator running one train at a time would want about DCC? Sheldon
Except for the desire for sound, I cannot understand what any lone operator running one train at a time would want about DCC?
As simply as I can make this Sheldon, this is not your decision to make, so it's easy to understand why you don't understand!
Well, I don’t need to justify why I went the way I went and don’t feel you need to justify why you went the way you went.
BRAKIE ATLANTIC CENTRAL Except for the desire for sound, I cannot understand what any lone operator running one train at a time would want about DCC? If I may take a shot at this. As I have mention elsewhere I use DCC on my 1'x10' ISL because of the following CV settings,brake,momentum,voltage and speed step.I found these settings add to my switching enjoyment because I had to learn to "operate" my DCC engines like a engineer..
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Except for the desire for sound, I cannot understand what any lone operator running one train at a time would want about DCC?
If I may take a shot at this.
As I have mention elsewhere I use DCC on my 1'x10' ISL because of the following CV settings,brake,momentum,voltage and speed step.I found these settings add to my switching enjoyment because I had to learn to "operate" my DCC engines like a engineer..
Brakie, let me take a shot at this.
My layout is basically two industrial switching layouts strung together by about 35 feet of countryside mainline. I do a lot of switching. With my AristoCraft Basic Train Engineer (its orange, not black) it takes me pressing the throttle button (not a dial) 4 or 5 times before the loco starts moving. On the first or second press, the lights come on brightly (it has to do with the pulse of the current getting to the Pcboard effecting the lighting before it effects the motor..someone else can explain that better than me), then the loco accelerates extremely slowly with each press.
I have tried CV adjustments to my sound locos to get better performance on DCC than what I get from the Aristo throttle on my nonsound locos, and can't seem to do it. What I can do is use a momentum setting and program the loco to accelerate very slowly to speed step 3 (or whatever), but the automatic incremental increase in speed occurs no mre gradually than what I can get with the Aristo throttle. Perhaps those with a more "sensitive pallet" for operations can detect a difference, but I can't.
BTW, the whole reason I went with the Aristo throttle is because I needed to cover 35 feet and didn't want a tethered plug in system like the CM20. The superior lighting and excellent slow speed control was a pleasant surprise.
On my small 'one man' layout no DCC because:
- one train at the time (aristo remote control)
- too many old engines, and quite a lot of them not worth to modify in DCC (old engines often require more that just soldering two wires, the full wiring has to be redone!). More because of hassle as of money ...
- at the club DCC-layout I saw enough decoders go 'puff&smoke'.... I do not want to count how many my daughters (9+7 y) would have already baked!
- a few engines with sound system working also in DC (albeit with limited functions) already fulfilled my need for noise. Do not need more.
sebastian
richhotrainBeing unfamiliar with DC block control, I have to ask this question. Is it possible to automate block control, so that it is unnecessary to flip switches when entering/exiting blocks?
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL