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Why am I the only person bothered by Life Like P2k axles?

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Why am I the only person bothered by Life Like P2k axles?
Posted by Fitter Roger on Thursday, January 22, 2015 7:13 PM

I'm jumping back into the hobby as a runner and not a collector, I have too much stuff.  As I drag out the Life Like 4 axle units most of them run a foot and lock up with the dreaded cracked axle problem.  Remember when the BL2 came out guaranteed for life?  Walthers bought LL and doesn't honor it?  I know I'm being cheap and am junking out old Blue Box wide bodies to get axles.  To me the P2k units were not cheap when I bought them and everybody pitched a fit about fuel tanks on Alco's and that was fixed.  Anybody else with me?  Should wathers pony up?

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Posted by doctorwayne on Thursday, January 22, 2015 11:12 PM

I don't think so.  Walthers continued to support those issues for some time, but I don't think that it's fair to expect them to do so in perpetuity. 
I don't own any Proto diesels, but have repaired many of them for friends - the parts are readily available and not especially expensive.  I'd guess that those locos still having the split gear problems have been languishing on modellers' shelves for some time and are eventually popping up on ebay - probably not run for years.  If you're getting them at bargain prices, there should be sufficient funds left to make the repairs. Wink

Wayne

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Posted by Bayfield Transfer Railway on Thursday, January 22, 2015 11:14 PM

What he said.

Seriously, I paid $35 to $50 for most of my older LL P2K diesels.  Now that non-DCC diesels are up to about $150, springing a few bucks for new gears doesn't seem out of line, even taking inflation into account.

I'm also old enough to remember cutting your own flywheels, disassembling motors and rewinding and balancing the armatures, and other methods just to get the engines to run reliably, or sometimes even at all.

A decent beer is four bucks, a Big Mac is four bucks, coffee is a buck and a quarter, hamburger is up to five bucks a pound for the cheap stuff around here.  Having to spend a few bucks on new gears is peanuts.  That's why nobody else is bothered.

Disclaimer:  This post may contain humor, sarcasm, and/or flatulence.

Michael Mornard

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Posted by Darth Santa Fe on Thursday, January 22, 2015 11:16 PM

A lot of people did complain from having the same problem that you are now. Life-Like/Walthers listened, and fixed the cracked gear problem years ago. Walthers even offered replacement axles for a long time, but since these older drives have been out of production for so long, it's possible they don't even make the gears anymore. If you have a bunch of old P2K diesels that need new gears, Athearn's new replacement geared axles with nickel-silver wheels are about the best fix you can get, and they're only around $10 for a pack of 6 axles!Big Smile

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Posted by richhotrain on Thursday, January 22, 2015 11:27 PM

By now, all of those old Life-Like diesels should have had those cracked gears replaced.  And, for those locos yet to have their cracked gears replaced, replacement gears should be on hand.  That's what we all have done.  

I have a whole bunch of P2K locos, and I have replaced cracked gears on several.  And, I have a supply of replacement gears on hand for those locos that have yet to exhibit the problem.  

After Walhers bought LL and stopped providing free replacements, I bought several bags of Athearn gears, six to a package.  You should do the same. Forget about Walthers honoring LL's lifetime warranty. Ain't gonna happen.

Rich

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Posted by zstripe on Thursday, January 22, 2015 11:32 PM

Athearn drive axle Gear. #ATH 60024-six per pack.

Take Care! Big Smile

Frank

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Posted by BRAKIE on Friday, January 23, 2015 4:03 AM

I once swore off LL P2K locomotives around 12 years ago because of the crack gear problem..Fast forward today and I have two P2K SCL GP9s and several SCL/Seabord System GP38-2s.These was bought used and the gears had been replaced but,I have several Athearn gears on hand just in case my luck buying used P2K engines runs out.. 

Larry

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Posted by Kyle on Friday, January 23, 2015 4:11 AM

Walthers probably has the cost under $2 for these axles, maybe less.  I would call them up and explain the situation.  If they have good customer service, they'll send you the replacement parts.  In business the customer is always right* (*within reason).  When a company has good customer service, you will be more likely to buy from that company again. If Walthers is smart they will send you the replacement parts which they will make up when you buy another product from them. If they try to avoid sending replacement parts, then I would say something like, "I'll just go to Athearn and buy parts from them.". The fear of losing business should fix any problems regarding the warranty.

If they still don't send you replacement parts, I would recommend Athearn parts.

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Posted by hon30critter on Friday, January 23, 2015 4:23 AM

Fitter Roger:

Congratulations on getting back into the hobby.

I'm sorry but I have to agree with the others that expecting Walthers to pony up for equipment that is that old is unreasonable. Things wear out, dry up, break down...however you want to put it. If we expected the manufacturers to pay every time something broke for as long as you owned it they would have to be charging some pretty hefty prices up front to cover future losses. Just look at what current household appliance extended warranties cost.

I think Walthers deserves cudos for supporting the product for as long as they did considering the fact that they didn't create the problem.

My 2 Cents

Dave

 

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Posted by NP2626 on Friday, January 23, 2015 4:47 AM

Appears everyone agrees (Hard to believe here on the MR Forums!!!) that it's not out of line, this late in the game, that Walthers would expect you to pay for these replacement parts.

NP 2626 "Northern Pacific, really terrific"

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Posted by richhotrain on Friday, January 23, 2015 4:59 AM

Kyle

Walthers probably has the cost under $2 for these axles, maybe less.  I would call them up and explain the situation.  If they have good customer service, they'll send you the replacement parts.  In business the customer is always right* (*within reason).  When a company has good customer service, you will be more likely to buy from that company again. If Walthers is smart they will send you the replacement parts.

No, it won't. 
 
Walthers claims that it got burned right after the acquisition of Life-Like by modelers requesting inordinate numbers of replacement gears.  So, when it ran out of supply (replacement gears turned over to Walthers by LL), it began to charge for replacement gears from the next run.
 
Rich

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Posted by rrinker on Friday, January 23, 2015 7:03 AM

 People have even posted here that they requested replacements even though they didn't even have a P2K loco - to get plated wheels to replace Athearn Blue Box sintered wheels (instead of ponying up for NWSL wheels). Waltehrs seemed to always want proof of purchase, Life Like didn't seem to care and just handed them out. I just use the Athearn gears now - I buy most of my locos on ebay or at train shows, generally for $40 or less, and I just replace the gears as I put them in service, I don;t wait for them to crack (or not, if they had previous been replaced).

                         --Randy

 


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Posted by carl425 on Friday, January 23, 2015 7:59 AM

Darth Santa Fe
Athearn's new replacement geared axles with nickel-silver wheels

Got a link where I can buy these?

I have the right to remain silent.  By posting here I have given up that right and accept that anything I say can and will be used as evidence to critique me.

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Posted by cacole on Friday, January 23, 2015 9:13 AM

carl425

Got a link where I can buy these?

 
There are some being offered right now on eBay in the HO scale trains area, or you can go to Athearn's web site and purchase them under their 'Parts' category.
 
Expecting Walters to offer free replacements for a product they didn't make, that is now close to 20 years old or older, is like expecting Ace Hardware, or any other major retail outlet, to replace a product they never sold in the first place, made by a company they bought out.
 
I simply keep a ready stock of Athearn replacement gears on hand to use when a club member purchases an old LifeLike locomotive that we all know is going to have split gears.
 
 
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Posted by rrinker on Friday, January 23, 2015 10:11 AM

 Frank posted it up above - Athearn part #60024. I ordered several packs right from Athearn to have them on hand.

 This is just the gears - you reuse the wheels as there is nothign wrong with them.

 And you DO need an NMRA gauge - you do NOT push the stub axles on the wheels in as far as they go.

                    --Randy


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

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Posted by jrbernier on Friday, January 23, 2015 10:53 AM

Kyle,

  One of the 1st things Walthers did after buying the Life-Like line of diesels is standardize future production on a 14:1 gear ratio.  They have sold out/warranty replaced the old 12:1 gears years ago.  Life-Like seemed to change the gear ratio with every new model.  Only the old GP's kept the 12:1 gear ratio.

  The only way you are going to get gears is use the above mentioned Athearn parts.  You are asking Walthers to produce parts they no longer carry?  Even the automotive industry is not on the hook for parts if the car is over 10 years old - This is just model trains!

Jim

 

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Posted by Soo Line fan on Friday, January 23, 2015 11:49 AM

Very minor fix as you could do a repair in about the same time as composing a response Laugh

A bigger issue for Walthers is to support replacement parts like Atlas Kato Athearn etc does with actual parts listing. Every time I call the answer is they are not available. So l stopped buying Walthers engines. Not looking for freebies just want to be able to repair what I have.

Jim

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Posted by richhotrain on Friday, January 23, 2015 11:58 AM

Too bad that Athearn didn't buy Life-Like.

Rich

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Posted by bogp40 on Friday, January 23, 2015 1:08 PM

jrbernier

Kyle,

  One of the 1st things Walthers did after buying the Life-Like line of diesels is standardize future production on a 14:1 gear ratio.  They have sold out/warranty replaced the old 12:1 gears years ago.  Life-Like seemed to change the gear ratio with every new model.  Only the old GP's kept the 12:1 gear ratio.

  The only way you are going to get gears is use the above mentioned Athearn parts.  You are asking Walthers to produce parts they no longer carry?  Even the automotive industry is not on the hook for parts if the car is over 10 years old - This is just model trains!

Jim

 

 

All the years working on these, I never did examine/ figure what made the gear ratio changes. If the axle gear is the same on 12:1 and 14:1 am I correct to assume the change is done w/ the idler gears. is the worm the same?

Modeling B&O- Chessie  Bob K.  www.ssmrc.org

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Posted by riogrande5761 on Friday, January 23, 2015 1:24 PM

I have had 11 NIB Proto geeps and 4 Proto SD's which I bought new for the going street price which have been in storage since then.  Gurantee'd I will need wheel sets replaced one most all of them.  It ain't fair yes, but I got myself to blame for not getting the wheelsets when they were being offered by Walthers - I'll have to pony up just like everyone else.

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Posted by Catt on Friday, January 23, 2015 2:54 PM

The Athearn sets that I have bought are always in the form of a 6 pack.You buy two packs and you can do 3 four axle locos.If you do it the way I do you can do 3 six axle units by only replacing two wheel sets and leaving the sintered set (I leave the center set) to help with pulling power.These wheel sets and gears will work in any Athearn clone chassis.

Johnathan(Catt) Edwards 100 % Michigan Made
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Posted by Mark R. on Friday, January 23, 2015 3:15 PM

richhotrain

Too bad that Athearn didn't buy Life-Like.

Rich

 

Then all the Proto engines would have those cheap bulbs ! Smile, Wink & Grin

Mark.

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Posted by Soo Line fan on Friday, January 23, 2015 3:18 PM

My understanding is only the 4 axle gp units split. Has that changed to include the sd units?

Jim

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Posted by richhotrain on Friday, January 23, 2015 3:53 PM

Soo Line fan

My understanding is only the 4 axle gp units split. Has that changed to include the sd units?

 

All of the GP and SD locos had the cracked gear problem.  I replaced gears on the SD7 and SD9.

Rich

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Posted by Soo Line fan on Friday, January 23, 2015 3:57 PM

How about the sd 50/60s?

Jim

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Posted by carl425 on Friday, January 23, 2015 4:02 PM

rrinker
Frank posted it up above - Athearn part #60024. I ordered several packs right from Athearn to have them on hand.

I've got several of those.  The post I asked about mentioned geared axles with nickel silver wheels.  I have not seen those on Ebay, the Athearn site, or anywhere else.

I have the right to remain silent.  By posting here I have given up that right and accept that anything I say can and will be used as evidence to critique me.

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Posted by emdmike on Friday, January 23, 2015 4:44 PM

We are starting to see the cracked gear issue on some older blue box Athearns, GP38-2's and SD9's that run at the local club.  Most of the SD's have high milage on them and its only the plastic side frame units doing it.  The older diecast side frame units havent had any issues and they are even higher milage than the newer plastic side frame engines.  We havent seen any issues with P2K E units or SD50/60 units, of which there are several on the layout.  Just seen the issue on SD7/9's and the GP's.  Parts are cheap and easy to come by, so its just a minor inconveince when one goes down for an axle gear issue.  Just gets "shopped" on the next work night.    Mike

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Posted by csxns on Friday, January 23, 2015 6:17 PM

Soo Line fan
How about the sd 50/60s?

NO.

Russell

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Posted by peahrens on Friday, January 23, 2015 6:21 PM

I have a 2004 or so DCC E-6 (LifeLike P2K) that I acquired that had cracked gears.  The Walthers tech fellow told me it was not a problem with the 6-axle diesels but it was with this one.  I found the Athearn gears (different number of teeth) would not work right and NWSL did not have the right one.  The solution was to buy two new front trucks to get the gears.  I recently got another DC E6 that I think was an earlier run and I've converted it to DCC and it runs fine.  I don't know if it's a different gear ratio (didn't check that out when it was open).

Paul

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Posted by rrinker on Friday, January 23, 2015 7:17 PM

carl425
 
rrinker
Frank posted it up above - Athearn part #60024. I ordered several packs right from Athearn to have them on hand.

 

I've got several of those.  The post I asked about mentioned geared axles with nickel silver wheels.  I have not seen those on Ebay, the Athearn site, or anywhere else.

 

 Yes, no one has those. That was what Life Like, and then Walters, was giving as replacements for cracked gears. There was a thought that the axles were too big, or the gears too small, and that caused the cracking - but the original wheels in the Athearn gears are just fine. Before Walthers, all you had to do was call Life Liek and say you had cracked gears, they'd send you 4 sets of wheels and gears. Since they are Athearn clones, you could take the wheels and use them to replace the inferior sintered iron wheels on BB locos. Unless the posts were deleted, they might still be here - many years ago, I recall people posting, more or less boasting about how they got free wheels for Athearn locos. Any wonder Walthers started asking for proof of purchase?  NWSL probably sells compatible gears, and I know they have the wheels, I used them on my old BB locos. Already assembled together? I doubt anyone has that. NWSL probbaly has gears with the proper number of teeth for the other drive ratios like the E units, as well. NWSL has like everything driveline related.

                      --Randy


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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