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New couplers for old cars

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New couplers for old cars
Posted by jimmyn4 on Thursday, November 20, 2014 9:47 AM

Hi, I'm new here.  I tried searching the forums but I feel like no thread addressed my concern.  When I was a kid, I got two HO Bachmann train sets.  I've always wanted to build a layout since that time but money and space just have never been there.  So the trains have sat in the boxes for nearly 30 years.  Just for fun, I opened the boxes up and set up the tracks but I found that both of my locomatives don't operate well (lack of maintenance?) and I want to replace them.  The issue I have is that newer locomatives have a different coupler system than what they had in the 80s.  I'm planning on buying a Bachmann locomative so I figure EZ Mate couplers are the way to go for the rest of cars.  If I buy these couplers, which do i get small, medium, large?  Do I need to purchase the under track magnet? All of this newer stuff is overwhelming for me, I really haven't looked at model trains since I was a teen.  So much has changed.  Any help or suggestions is greatly appreciated!

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Posted by LensCapOn on Friday, November 21, 2014 10:28 AM

Or you could go to Kadee couplers. They have a broad listing of coupler conversions and can be emailed for specific questions. They should be better than, and compatable with, EZ-mate couplers. You may need to install a coupler with new draft gear in an older B'mann. 

http://kadee.com/

 

Also search YouTube for coupler install videos. There is a good chance you can find what you want.

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Posted by richg1998 on Friday, November 21, 2014 10:35 AM

Bachmann couplers are ok but Kadee are better.

Below is a link to the Bachmann HO forum with many users there and Bachmann reps also.

You would do good to join the forums. Loads of info about Bachmann products including new releases.

Forums for other scales also.

These scales are good but the Bachmann are specific to their products.

http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/board/index.php/board,2.0.html

Rich

If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.

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Posted by ACY Tom on Friday, November 21, 2014 11:32 AM

In general, the model railroad equipment being sold on the North American market today is compatible with Kadee couplers.  The Kadee system has become the de facto standard because it is, frankly, the best in terms of appearance, reliability, quality control, durability, simplicity, availability, cost, and probably some other advantages I haven't even thought of.  Some brands that are compatible with Kadee couplers are OK, but most are not quite up to Kadee quality because of durability issues.  If your older equipment has horn hook (X2F) couplers, but is otherwise worth keeping, then you will want to change them to Kadees.  Kadee has a chart that tells what kind of Kadee couplers to use to convert most models.

For newer equipment that has non-Kadee knuckle couplers, most modelers run that stuff until the couplers fail, then replace the couplers with good ol' reliable Kadees.

Under-track magnets are OK.  They work.  But they're not 100% necessary.  Kadee-style knuckle couplers (including AccuMate) can be separated by just lifting one car a bit to disengage the coupler.  That's almost impossible with the X2F horn hook coupler.  You can also insert a wooden skewer between couplers to work them apart.  Rix also makes a magnetic tool that works.

(No, I do not work for Kadee).Big Smile

Tom

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Posted by railroaded on Friday, November 21, 2014 11:34 AM

I've tried each & every "knuckle" stlye coupler for the last 30 years & Kadees come out the most reliable, with the most different types for all different applications. McHenry is ok, but any of the other plastic style couplers all have major flaws that can't be overcome & lead to major problems. The steel "trip pin" (simulated air hose) for magnetic operation will turn inside the plastic ones & then fail to operate properly. Any of the couplers with a plastic knuckle return spring will take a set eventually & remain in the open position, leading to unexpected uncouplings while in a train. The plastic centering springs are weak & don't return the coupler to the center position properly so they don't line up for couples. I tried all the different brands & none work consistently like Kadees. They're worth the time & money to get right, it makes running trains so much more enjoyable. The effort spent installing them saves frustrstion in operation later on the layout. This issue is my biggest pet peeve with model railroad products. Manufacturers have had, what? About 100 years or so to figure this out, yet they charge big MSRP's for locos & cars with junk couplers, coupler pockets that are too hi or too low, or can't easily be modified. What a pain. Brand new out of the box, suppossedly "ready to run" stuff neededs an hour and & half at the bench before I can even set it on the layout. To me, that's just crazy, but that's how it is. I could immagine how discouraging this is to newcomers into the hobby if they don't know any better. One time, my cousin's husband was over & I ran some trains for him. When I asked him what he thought, he surprised me by saying "Well, the most impressive thing isn't the scenery or all this stuff, its that the train has been running for at least 20 minutes while we talk & it hasn't uncoupled yet & run into itself or derailed yet." I then realized that this must be happening all the time when he sets up his trains for the kids & he had just come to except it because he didn't know any better about more reliable couplers & properly weighted cars.

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Posted by mobilman44 on Friday, November 21, 2014 11:52 AM

Hi,

Welcome to the hobby!  

To mirror previous posters........ KD (kaDee) couplers are the only way to go.  They cost a bit more, but will do the job and last forever.  I've been on this forum longer than most, and have yet to hear someone say they regretted going to KDs.

But a lot of folks have regretted using others....................

ENJOY  !

 

Mobilman44

 

Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central 

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Posted by galaxy on Friday, November 21, 2014 12:08 PM

HI Jimmy!  a Big HEarty Welcome to you!

~Ka Dees are probably your best best. I have a lot of newer Bachmann stuff, and even those I replace the EZMates with KaDee couplers on every chance I get.

Here is a "conversion chart" listing for KaDees-it contains suggestions for Bachmann stuff :

http://www.kadee.com/conv/holist.pdf

See if it lists your B. Equipment and the KaDee model to replace on it. 

~You only need to purchase an under track magnet is you want to uncouple your cars somewhere without the "hand of God" method {using your hands, which in the model world would be like that}, {you cna also use a skewer}. The simulated coupler hose will do the trick then to open the coupler to uncouple.

~DOn't be overwhelmed, just READ a lot first before you buy much...then buy. FOr excample I found the new-fangled thing called DCC to be just what I wanted {AFTER I had already bought some newer DC stuff..mistake}

~ANd don't be affraid to come here and ask any questions.

Have fun, its  A HOBBY to enjoy!

Geeked

-G .

Just my thoughts, ideas, opinions and experiences. Others may vary.

 HO and N Scale.

After long and careful thought, they have convinced me. I have come to the conclusion that they are right. The aliens did it.

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Posted by MisterBeasley on Friday, November 21, 2014 12:17 PM

I have lots of rolling stock built during the Eisenhower administration.  A few years back I did the same thing as you - found the locomotives didn't work, bought new ones that did, and began the process of replacing the couplers.  Old Varney, Mantua and Athearn cars, plus other oddballs I can't even identify.

There isn't one that I couldn't find a Kadee to fit.  And not one of those Kadees has ever failed in service.

It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse. 

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Posted by dstarr on Friday, November 21, 2014 12:26 PM

HO couplers in a nutshell.  Kadee magnetic knuckle couplers came on the market in the 1960's.  Everyone agrees that the Kadee coupler is very good, and they had the market to themselves until their patents ran out in the 1990's.  The competitors, Bachmann and McHenry offered a line of Kadee compatable, ie would mate with Kadees, couplers that became popular with the RTR rolling stock makers 'cause the were cheaper.  Early models had some problems, current production works OK.  But, they cost as much as Kadees when you buy them in the hobby shop.  So why not buy the best, since it doesn't cost any more?

  As for which coupler style to buy (Kadee has countless different styles), there is asimple rule.  A #5 Kadee is right for most freight cars.  When in doubt, (locomotives, passenger cars) check the Kadee what-fits-what list on their website or in the big Walthers catalog.  They list every piece of rolling stock ever manufactured going back to the beginning of HO and which coupler to use. 

   One caution.  Kadee lists a truck mounted coupler for cars with truck mounted couplers.  You may want to upgrade to body mount couplers, they look better and they stay on the track better while backing up.  Usually a #5 coupler can be secured to the end sill with a 2-56 screw. 

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Posted by jjdamnit on Friday, November 21, 2014 12:31 PM

Hello and welcome,

I too have gotten back into this hobby; HO scale, after an over 40-year hiatus.

The older style couplers you’re referring to are know as Hook & Horn. Still available and in use today (By whom I don’t know).

The other type of coupler you are referring to is a knuckle coupler, produced by numerous manufacturers. Today’s standard.

After less than six months back in this hobby I’ve come to the conclusion that Kadee couplers are the best- -hands down!

My experience with other manufacturers knuckle couplers has been disappointing to say the least. Especially the E-Z Mates. I’ve switched out all the stock Bachmann knuckle couplers for Kadees with no regrets. An easy conversions with a jewelers screwdriver.

Check out the Kadee website. It’s a wealth of information on couplers in general. They offer downloadable data sheets to convert almost any coupler to Kadees. Some conversions are quite simple, requiring only a jewelers screwdriver, while some are more complex requiring some minor to major surgery. All worth the effort in my opinion.

I also bought their printed catalog. Like the website, it has a wealth of information not only about couplers but scale and measurement charts along with coupler specs, hardware recommendations, tools and other products they offer. A great reference to have.

Items you will need for coupler conversion are:

  • Replacement couplers (For size and type check Kadees website.)
  • A set of jewelers screwdrivers (Available at your home improvement center typically less than $10.00.)
  • Hobby knife (Xacto type) with #11 blades
  • A coupler height gage (I prefer the Kadee #206 HO scale insulated gauge.)
  • Graphite lube (Comes in a tube and can be found in the locksmith section of your local home improvement center. Much cheaper than what’s sold on the Kadee site.)

Depending on the depth of the conversion some other handy items are (but not required):

  • A utility knife with extra blades
  • A set of needle (jewelers) files
  • 2-56 screws (I prefer the nylon type.)
  • Fiber washers; various thicknesses (To use as insulators and spacers.)
  • Coupler pin pliers (A luxury definitely worth the investment from Kadee.)
  • Coupler/spring pick (Again a luxury but when you need it you need it!)
  • Coupler tweezers (See above note.)
  • A digital caliper (Available at Harbor Supply for around $25.00 that measures metric, standard decimal and standard fractions! BRILLIANT!!)

Kadee offers an HO-Scale Starter Pack and a Coupler Sample Test Kit. These include some of the items I’ve listed above but my problem with these kits is that in the end I’m stuck with four sets of short, overset, whisker couplers that I’ll never use. I prefer the buy as you need method so I’m not stuck with more stuff that I’ll never use.

As far as magnets. Those are for uncoupling. On Kadees website (and in the catalog) they have a great primer on coupling and uncoupling that is too extensive for this forum.

Initially you may not need uncoupling magnets. A dental pick, straight or angled pick or the above mentioned coupler/spring pick will allow you to uncouple cars within an arms reach.

For remote uncoupling there are various methods you can install. From the simple between the rails magnets, to electronically controlled under the layout units to what I’ve just learned- -Dual Magnet Uncoupling (Google it).

This may sound daunting to begin with, but like other projects; once you have the knowledge and tools the actual conversions will save you time and headache (dealing with derailed cars and inconsistent uncoupling) and money (eventually upgrading to Kadees which is what you should have done in the first place).

Hope this helps.

"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"

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Posted by peahrens on Friday, November 21, 2014 1:15 PM

As noted above, the Kadee #5 fits a fair percentage of freight cars, and many passenger cars.  The #5 has a brass(?) spring that goes in the box and centers the coupler.  It's been around over 50 years and became the most popular. 

The #148 is an equivalent (in terms of being larger than scale (but more commonly used), with a "standard" length and the shank centered vertically, that many folks are moving to as their favored "go to" as it's a bit easier to install, and may be less opt to have friction issues in the box from centering (though this problem is relatively rare if the box is not pinched by overtightening.  The #148 whiskers are integral to the coupler.  A bit protrudes from the box but is not very visible IMO.

I see the 2-pair packets, which come with boxes if you decide to remove the old and install the Kadee box, sell for about $3.30 discounted, or $1.65 per car.  You often can get 25-pair packs without boxes that can save a little on cost.

http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/Kadee-HO-Universal-Metal-Coupler-Medium-Centerset-p/kad-5.htm

http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/Kadee-HO-Metal-WHISKER-Coupler-Medium-p/kad-148.htm

Paul

Modeling HO with a transition era UP bent

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Posted by jimmyn4 on Friday, November 21, 2014 2:05 PM

Wow! Thanks for all of the great responses. I do just have hook and horn couplers. I just purchased a GE ES44 AC Central of Georgia by Bachmann.  I know it's not ideal, but for the time being, just to get up and rolling, could I just install an ez mate coupler to the front of one of my cars to couple with the locomative and leave the hook and horn couplers on the other cars and slowly upgrade them down the line with kadee.  Please keep in mind, right now I have an oval on my living room floor, no serious layout yet so authenticity isn't as paramount.  I'm glad to be here, thanks again for all of your input.

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Posted by richg1998 on Friday, November 21, 2014 2:47 PM

Be advise, the #5 is oversize if you count all the rivets.

Kadee does sell more to scale couplers. I used the old time coupler in 1890's modeling before Kadee came up with the more prototypical coupler.

The #5 is much too large for 36ft and shorter cars. Looks like a little boy wearing his father's shoes.

Do your research. Don't be in a hurry like some have said. we are still kids. Never forget that.

Rich

 

If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.

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Posted by ACY Tom on Friday, November 21, 2014 5:15 PM

There is precedent for having a RR car with a Kadee coupler on one end and an X2f horn hook at the other end.  It's a workable temporary solution.  I've done that myself in the distant past.  But the X2F's will always be troublesome & difficult to uncouple by hand.  If you only have a handful of cars, you might as well just convert them all.  You can probably get the job done in one evening.  You can keep the factory-installed coupler on your new locomotive as long as it continues to work reliably.  It will mate with Kadees.

Tom

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Posted by jjdamnit on Friday, November 21, 2014 5:38 PM

Hello,

You can do it either way on the cheap without having to buy couplers. You’ll still need some basic tools and knowledge.

If you’re able, swap the front knuckle coupler from your locomotive and the lead (front) Hook & Horn coupler of your string of cars and you’re in business!

Later on you can replace the front coupler you used and upgrade the cars as needed or budget permits. Meanwhile the loco can pull or push from either end. Just be aware that uncoupling from the H&H end won’t be as easy as the Knuckle end.

One caveat is if the mounting positions (Gear Boxes) aren’t compatible with the couplers.

Another is, if the mounting position of the two couplers is not the same height in relation to one and another.

Go to the Kadee website and do some research. You’ll be surprised how much you will learn from them.

Hope this helps.

 

"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"

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Posted by richg1998 on Friday, November 21, 2014 5:47 PM

ACY

There is precedent for having a RR car with a Kadee coupler on one end and an X2f horn hook at the other end.  It's a workable temporary solution.  I've done that myself in the distant past.  But the X2F's will always be troublesome & difficult to uncouple by hand.  If you only have a handful of cars, you might as well just convert them all.  You can probably get the job done in one evening.  You can keep the factory-installed coupler on your new locomotive as long as it continues to work reliably.  It will mate with Kadees.

Tom

 

A fellow in out club did that. The only issue was backing a train, usually on a curve or turnout. Generally he was happy with it.

Rich

If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.

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Posted by jimmyn4 on Friday, November 21, 2014 8:36 PM
Just an update. I got the newly purchased DCC locomotive up and running on the track tonight. Holy cow I'm so impressed with how it runs, can't believe how quiet and smooth it is compared to my old locomotives. Anyways, I went ahead and switched the coupler out on one of my cars to be compatible. It works for now. Next step is the Kadee website and converting all of cars over. Thanks again.
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Posted by Southgate on Sunday, November 23, 2014 4:10 AM

Unless I missed it, nobody has mentioned track...If a magnet sticks to it, it's so called nickel steel. It makes good locomotives run poorly. If it's brass, it needs to be shined often, or it conducts poorly. Your best track will be nickel silver, many brands are available. Atlas is the most common used.

If you're going to bother, use Kadee "whisker" couplers  whever possible, as they work even better than good old #5s especially for delayed magnetic uncoupling. Buying in bulk packs will save ya some bucks.

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