I posted this same response on a simular thread....I hope it's not all on line as I , along with others, don't have access to high speed internet & my DSL at times is so slow that it is useless. Would really like a DVD when & if the bugs that I have heard about are cleared up.
jerryl I posted this same response on a simular thread....I hope it's not all on line as I , along with others, don't have access to high speed internet & my DSL at times is so slow that it is useless. Would really like a DVD when & if the bugs that I have heard about are cleared up.
I would hope you would be able to download issues. You could simply download the issues before you go to bed, and have them the next day if your internet is truely slow.
Kyle jerryl I posted this same response on a simular thread....I hope it's not all on line as I , along with others, don't have access to high speed internet & my DSL at times is so slow that it is useless. Would really like a DVD when & if the bugs that I have heard about are cleared up. I would hope you would be able to download issues. You could simply download the issues before you go to bed, and have them the next day if your internet is truely slow.
From the ad, I think it will be more than just the Online Issues. I get the feelilng it includes MRVideoPlus as well, and possibly both a hard copy and digital subscription.
I have the DVD as well as all hard copy issues since about 1986, and all the MRP and GMRs too. But being able to do an online search would be great.
My "Wish List" would be:
But cost will of course be the big issue.
I saw the ad and am curious. I will hope for the best. I have the DVD and while it is a bit awkward it does work. Just find it strange that they have an ad in the latest issue but I can find nothing about it, not even an ad on the website.
I agree that price will be a BIG issue. Seems like most everything has or will apear in the magazine & I can't see paying a big price for duplicate info. in different formats. I also commented about not having High Speed internet which would only add to my frustration.
I hope that our friends at Kalmbach will do something so that those of us who shelled out the cash for the 75 years DVD don't find it to be money wasted when "all access" happens. I'd hate to see it included in something else I have to buy to get the missing issues.
I have the right to remain silent. By posting here I have given up that right and accept that anything I say can and will be used as evidence to critique me.
Indeed. Some say they wish it had better quality - well, how much resolution do you think was in a low cost hobbyist published magazine 80 years ago? Also keep in mind that all the early years were in a smaller format than today's standard, so if you happen to have a fairly large size monitor, even without zooming in you are viewing the older issues in larger than life size. My 23" displays, I just checked - vertically it is exactly the same physical size as the modern magazine. Since it's widescreen, I could view a full page spread. Since I actually have two displays, I theoretically could view 4 pages at the same time.
I know, technology costs money - but 24" widescreen 1080p displays now cost less than most locos. And it beats peering at a tiny 15" CRT. No flicker, either, to tire your eyes.
But I'm with the others, I have the 75 year DVD, I don;t want to pay full price again to get the most recent 5 years, part of which I already have in electronic format thanks to a digital subscription. Also, an index is of secondary concern - there are a couple of online model railroad magazine index sites that have excellent searching capability, and as a bonus contain ALL publications, not just MR. You REALLY want to find an article you barely remember? Check one of them out, you'll find your article.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
I'm the contrary vote; I LIKE the idea of it being online.For one thing I've heard some fairly serious concerns from techies about the format the DVDs are in. In 20 years will the then-current operating systems be able to display those DVDs?
If it's online, it's not my problem.
Disclaimer: This post may contain humor, sarcasm, and/or flatulence.
Michael Mornard
Bringing the North Woods to South Dakota!
Bayfield Transfer Railway I'm the contrary vote; I LIKE the idea of it being online.For one thing I've heard some fairly serious concerns from techies about the format the DVDs are in. In 20 years will the then-current operating systems be able to display those DVDs? If it's online, it's not my problem.
Counterpoint to this -- if you have a DVD (blu-ray, laserdisc, whatever) with the articles, they're yours, and while it might take some doing to dig into the disc and rip the magazines out for storage on a HDD or secondary (tertiary) optical media, you can do it (and then just transfer from old -> new PCs as time goes on).
With the archives being online, their future depends solely on whether or not Kalmbach wants to keep the servers up.
That said - I'm not opposed to it being online ... I just hope that if they go that route, I'll be allowed to print off or otherwise locally archive articles, so I can use them at my leisure.
-Dan
Builder of Bowser steam! Railimages Site
NeO6874With the archives being online, their future depends solely on whether or not Kalmbach wants to keep the servers up.
Online is fine,. but there MUST also be a way to read off line. We do not yet live in a worlkd where an internet connection is available everywhere we might go., and even when it is, the ridiculous rates the cell phone providers charge for miniscule amounts of data traffic are out of control. We laugh at people paying more for a gallon of bottle water than a gallon of gas, but cellular data rates are like paying full carload rates to ship one tiny postcard.
That 75 year DVD will be readable as long as there is Adobe Acrobat or one of the many clones. Having everything tied up in ONE company's web site is much more precarious. Zinio seems to be fairly stable, but internet companies come and go. If Zinio folds, I can say goodbye to the past 2 years of MR Digital. This is NOT a good situation. The app does download the issues to my tablet, so I can read them with no internet connection, but it seems to periodically remove older ones that I haven't opened in a while, otherwise I would be perfectly ok, it's online, but it's also in my iPad and thus backed up to my computer (which is then backed up to my server, which has a cloud-based back....).
Long term, I think this trend to put everything on the cloud will reverse itself, as people come to realize it puts things out of their control - botht he good side of that, less management, but also the bad, as in no control and being at the merecy of someone else. Having been in the IT industry as long as I have, I've seen it all come and go. Many of those things we see today with fancy acronymns to attract the MBA degreed CIO types with limited technical knowledge are the sme old things we did 20 years ago, just with a slick sounding name. ALl marketing. I've seen things take off like ganbusters, the latest and greatest new fad, only to have it fase after a few years once people finally got a handle on just what they were giving up. The clound concept has its place. All of your data, with no offline copy, and all of your computing - that's not the place for it. COPIES - backups, etc - THAT'S a good use for offsite systems.
In 20 years, probably. That DVD or Bluray drive in your computer can still read CD's which is a format that is over 30 years old now.
I can't read my hardcopy issues from the 90's because my wife cleaned out the attic and threw them away. It's far easier to make technology "future proof" than it is to make it "wife proof".
rrinkerThe clound concept has its place. All of your data, with no offline copy, and all of your computing - that's not the place for it
I've been in the data storage and protection business for 40 years, so as you may expect, I also have an opinion on the cloud.
The major players in cloud storage offer options for maintaining copies of your data in multiple data centers across the country from each other. Most of the others at least do backups for you (probably more frequently than you do) so the data can be recovered in the event of a system failure.
The big problem with the cloud in my opinion is that many business are subject to severe fines if private data is leaked. HIPPA is the primary example of such regulations. No cloud provider has yet agreed to accept responsibility for data leaks. So if all your data "rains out of the cloud", regardless who is at fault, you are the one screwed.
The other issue is cost. An honest evaulation, when you take into account the usage patterns and responsiveness required, will show that local storage is the most cost effective option. So far, that is the conclusion that most of my customers have arrived at.
chutton01 NeO6874 With the archives being online, their future depends solely on whether or not Kalmbach wants to keep the servers up. As a demo...eh, might as well say it junior high fashion <cough>Trainlife<cough>
NeO6874 With the archives being online, their future depends solely on whether or not Kalmbach wants to keep the servers up.
As a demo...eh, might as well say it junior high fashion <cough>Trainlife<cough>
Not entirely sure what you're getting at with that. It's a website that's like four years old ... and seems extremely broken.
The articles contained therein are only accessable to "joe public" so long as the maintainer(s) choose to keep the servers online (and domain registered) -- which is EXACTLY what I said in the quote that you decided to use.
Once it's in your hands, a DVD (or other physical media, for that matter) will pretty much "always work", and is not subject to the whims of a publishing company who may deem an internet-facing archive is "too expensive" to continue to maintain.
NeO6874Not entirely sure what you're getting at with that. It's a website that's like four years old ... and seems extremely broken.
NeO6874 Once it's in your hands, a DVD (or other physical media, for that matter) will pretty much "always work", and is not subject to the whims of a publishing company who may deem an internet-facing archive is "too expensive" to continue to maintain.
The problem is, the MR DVDs include proprietary software necessary to view them; they aren't simply a PDF collection. There is absolutely NO guarantee that later operating systems will run that software. I really don't want to have to keep a Win7 computer around 25 years from now just to view my MR DVDs.
chutton01 NeO6874 Not entirely sure what you're getting at with that. It's a website that's like four years old ... and seems extremely broken. What I was getting at is that Trainlife was more or less serving as an archive of various out-of-print magazines (perhaps of questionable legality, but you wouldn't find active magazines like Model Railroader or the once and future Rail Model Craftsman on that site). Actually very useful, and people certainly used it (you can find mentions of it in various thread on this and other forums). Then, the images went away early this year - since the images were the archives of the magazines, that pretty much ended the usefulness of the site. Not much info out there why, although some posts stated the owners of the site knew about it but couldn't afford to have it working properly.The moral of this story is that online archives are great for back-ups, but don't depend on them always being there, and I was simply providing an example of a real-life situation.
NeO6874 Not entirely sure what you're getting at with that. It's a website that's like four years old ... and seems extremely broken.
What I was getting at is that Trainlife was more or less serving as an archive of various out-of-print magazines (perhaps of questionable legality, but you wouldn't find active magazines like Model Railroader or the once and future Rail Model Craftsman on that site). Actually very useful, and people certainly used it (you can find mentions of it in various thread on this and other forums). Then, the images went away early this year - since the images were the archives of the magazines, that pretty much ended the usefulness of the site. Not much info out there why, although some posts stated the owners of the site knew about it but couldn't afford to have it working properly.The moral of this story is that online archives are great for back-ups, but don't depend on them always being there, and I was simply providing an example of a real-life situation.
Ah -- I misinterpreted what you were posting as "nope, you're wrong mate -- see, this site is proof that internet archives are a good thing(tm)"
Bayfield Transfer Railway The problem is, the MR DVDs include proprietary software necessary to view them; they aren't simply a PDF collection. There is absolutely NO guarantee that later operating systems will run that software. I really don't want to have to keep a Win7 computer around 25 years from now just to view my MR DVDs.
Thing is, the data is still squirreled away on the disc (i.e. "in our hands"). Given enough desire (and know-how), said digital restrictions can be removed.
TBH, I'm appalled that they're requiring 3rd party applications (other than Adobe Reader) in the first place.
As an old geezer, it seems to me that the more advanced The tech. world gets, the more temporary it is. How many can extract info. from a floppy disk or play tapes ( 8 track, reel to reel, cassett or even VHS.) or look at a lazer disk? All of these were the best thing since sliced bread. With all the changes in software, plug ons, formats, servers etc, it seems to me the only way you can be sure you can access information from a magazine from the 90s is to keep the magazine.
I think it's been that way forever -- the only places (in my experience) where public/general use data is retained "long term" is libraries and (possibly) the creator of that data in the first place.
Just curious at what price point you guy's would be willing to pay for "all access"
Jim
Soo Line fan Just curious at what price point you guy's would be willing to pay for "all access"
jerryl Soo Line fan Just curious at what price point you guy's would be willing to pay for "all access" Depends on what format..might not even be interested if it's all online.
Depends on what format..might not even be interested if it's all online.
^ This, pretty much.
If it's all online (and any type of DRM), I wouldn't use it.
If it's all online (but, "download the PDF, and then it's yours to do as you please*"), then I would consider it. Bonus would be if they were super cheap ($0.99 per, even better would be a free** page of text*** preview). Alternatively, if it was something like $50 (or whatever) for the first 80 years "pack" (issue 1 - Dec 2014), and then a cheap (sub $5) optional addon to your recurring subscription, I'd be OK with that too.
If it's a DVD/Blu-ray again, I'd pay $50-60 or so (especially if it's "PDF and do as you please") ... bonus if they would reduce the price a bit for shipping back your 75th anniv. disc (or offer a 5 year booster DVD for cheap) for those people who have the 75th disc.
* within reason (i.e. "personal use only").
** "free" could just be a "freebie addon" for subscribers
*** "first page of text" being the first page of the article that has text beyond the article title (e.g. layout tours that do the full-page pic would show page 2 of n instead of just the pic and title).
Bayfield Transfer Railway NeO6874 Once it's in your hands, a DVD (or other physical media, for that matter) will pretty much "always work", and is not subject to the whims of a publishing company who may deem an internet-facing archive is "too expensive" to continue to maintain. The problem is, the MR DVDs include proprietary software necessary to view them; they aren't simply a PDF collection. There is absolutely NO guarantee that later operating systems will run that software. I really don't want to have to keep a Win7 computer around 25 years from now just to view my MR DVDs.
Nope - the only thing 'proprietary' in the MR collection is the password used internally. The viewer software is Adobe, each individual page of each issue is a standard PDF file, except it's password protectect - if you have full Adobe Acrobat you too can make PDFs with a password. You can at present print entire issues, using a PDF print driver, to PDFs that can be read anywhere you can get a PDF reader client - I've printed several construction articles to load on my iPad, for example.
All that is needed to read the issues on the 75 year collection is the password to the PDF files, in which case they could be opened in any PDF reader that supports Adobe's security option. You can try it - just find the files on your hard disk and try to open them with say Adobe Reader. It will ask you for a password. If you knew that password, they would open up. Without launching the index and display program that Kalmbach put on the DVD.
Hi guys,
Before you go too far down the path of unlocking PDFs, the DVD set was intentionally locked to prevent users from sharing free copies of old issues with 10,000 of their best friends via the internet.
How would you feel if you had bought the DVD set, only to later see all of it posted on someone's personal website for free?
Sincerely,
Neil B.
editor
Neil Besougloff
editor, Model Railroader magazine
Not trying to unlock it, just pointing out that while the 'front end' and search might be proprietary, the actual content is not stored in any special proprietary format that is in danger of becoming unreadable any time in the near future. The PDF format is pretty much here to stay. It is constantly being added to, but the oldest PDF files still open with current readers.
The issue of protecting or not protecting is best left for off this forum. Different ebook publishers all have their own opinions.
Neil B. Hi guys, Before you go too far down the path of unlocking PDFs, the DVD set was intentionally locked to prevent users from sharing free copies of old issues with 10,000 of their best friends via the internet. How would you feel if you had bought the DVD set, only to later see all of it posted on someone's personal website for free? Sincerely, Neil B. editor
Thing is, there's a middle ground between "Here's PDFs of every article, ever" and "you can look, but do nothing else!".
And with the DVD (which I unfortunately couldn't afford), it sounds like you took a middle-ground approach that could be done away with (relatively) easily -- "Hey MR Readers -- the 75th anniv. edition doesn't work on the new Windows Mega Edition, and the company that made the index/viewer has gone out of business ... you can still read the articles by following these steps ..."
Way I see it -- if whatever approach you take grants me reasonable rights to the materials purchased (however you do it), then I'm probably on board ... but, if your stance is "you can read online, using this awful viewer, no saving, no printing, no nothing", then I'm staying far away...
As both a former software engineer and someone who has written for money, I have NO problems with MR protecting its intellectual property rights!
NASA has Apollo moon pictures they can't retrive as the system in use at that time went bye-bye before they could access them. Typical Gov'ment! I once told a camera store owner I still prefered 35 mm film cameras for some uses. He said"why is that?" I replied " I've never seen a negative crash." He said "Good point"
God's Best & Happy Rails to You!
Bing (RIPRR The Route of the Buzzards)
The future: Dead Rail Society
The Apollo footage wasn't lost to format obsolescence. They were lost because they were inadvertantly recorded over back in the days when recording over made more sense than new tapes because tapes were expensive, even for NASA.
Oh my goodness - this technical talk is beyond this old geazer also.
But in any event, I think I would find it useful if MRR was made available on DVD or downloadable online access in ten year blocks -maybe even five or an annual.
But I don't have a publishing business to run & a need to generate profits & a dividend for the shareholders. So much that may suit me in this discussion my not generate maximum profits utilizing existing assets such magazine content that has returned a profit n the format it was originaly published.in.
Dusty
Neil,
I appreciate the logistical nightmare that comes with trying to protect your copyright in the digital age. I get there are no easy answers, and that you will not be able to please everyone.
That being said, two things cause me concern on a personal level. One, I have already bought into both digital MR and MR Video Plus until March/April 2016. How will that factor in to my cost for All-Access? Two, the ability to download for offline reading is almost a necessity. Coverage dropouts, server issues/downtime, and anything else Mr Murphy can think of really has me concerned that I will not have the same sense of security that comes from knowing I have archived my own copies.
None of these questions, however, will be answered by a splash ad. I will therefore wait for the formal announcement, and hope my concerns are unfounded.
Chris Ballinger
Modeling the Clementon Branch of the Pennsylvania-Reading Seashore Lines in HO scale
Many, many of us are at or near retirement. That's just demographics, but along with that comes the economics of that demographic. Retired people, in general, don't have as much to spend as those with jobs.
So, what's to happen to those of us who want to cut back on unnecessary expenditures? If I buy a subscription to the paper magazine, I've got that magazine and its contents for as long as I want to keep it. But, if my subscription is digital, if I stop paying the continuing fees, I lose access not only to new content, but to the older content that I'd already payed for, right?
I can go to the public library and read the latest MR, on paper, sitting in a comfy chair off by myself. Will my library subscribe to the digital edition? I'm guessing no, at least not for a while. Libraries have budget constraints, too.
I'm fine with digital content, as long as it's an add-on and not a replacement for the old fashioned magazine.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
The loss of Digital contact with previously paid for content once one quits spending money to keep the subscription going is what everyone is hoping!
Just as some on here have stated many times - THEY only keep relitive articles they CUT from the magazine.
What happens when they decide to change ERAs or Railroads etc?
All of that paper is NOW worthless to them and they now have to go searching for that NEW info about what ever new project they will now be working on.
While storing the paper versions of the magazines takes up lots of room - I much prefer to have them as I will have them (barring Fires - in which case would also take out any stored electronic articles) almost forever.
BUT - having the content on line - is so unreliable - as we all know the Magazine industry is not what it used to be and RMC mag gone for now - is a fine example - if all of the content was online - it too would be gone in an instant. YET - I have all of the OLD RMCs in my train room.
I have Bookmarked many web places that had great into on many subjects and I have went back to them years later - ONLY to find they are gone as well as the content I wanted/needed.
SO - WHAT Good did it do me to EXPECT that the info would always be there to reference to?
This Forun could dissappear tomorrow (Just as the old ALTAS forum did) and no one could stop it!
Just as others had suggested any digital on line information can also dissappear as I have stated above!
If I am spending MY money on information - I WANT it in MY possession - NOT RELYING on someone that I can't control!
YMMV
BOB H - Clarion, PA
cmrproducts While storing the paper versions of the magazines takes up lots of room - I much prefer to have them as I will have them (barring Fires - in which case would also take out any stored electronic articles) almost forever. BUT - having the content on line - is so unreliable - as we all know the Magazine industry is not what it used to be and RMC mag gone for now - is a fine example - if all of the content was online - it too would be gone in an instant. YET - I have all of the OLD RMCs in my train room. (more examples)
(more examples)
Definitely!
Kalmbach (et. al.) are completely entitled to enforcing their copyrights -- but it's be really nice if the decision makers for this thing make it permissive enough to allow us some degree of freedom with things so that we don't lose out in the event that "bad things" happen in the future (bean counters deem it not profitable, Kalmbach is swallowed by another house whose beancounters deem it not profitable, Kalmbach closes [magazines] down, etc.)
NeO6874 cmrproducts While storing the paper versions of the magazines takes up lots of room - I much prefer to have them as I will have them (barring Fires - in which case would also take out any stored electronic articles) almost forever. BUT - having the content on line - is so unreliable - as we all know the Magazine industry is not what it used to be and RMC mag gone for now - is a fine example - if all of the content was online - it too would be gone in an instant. YET - I have all of the OLD RMCs in my train room. (more examples) Definitely! Kalmbach (et. al.) are completely entitled to enforcing their copyrights -- but it's be really nice if the decision makers for this thing make it permissive enough to allow us some degree of freedom with things so that we don't lose out in the event that "bad things" happen in the future (bean counters deem it not profitable, Kalmbach is swallowed by another house whose beancounters deem it not profitable, Kalmbach closes [magazines] down, etc.)
One thing I did not state before is -
Once I have the PAPER veriosn of the magazines - I can give it to anyone I choose and they can then copy the articles they so choose as it is stated in the magazines that copies can be made for that persons use!
They can't really stop this use of the magazines (as long as the person making the copies DOES NOT sell the copies and ONLY uses them for personal use)
BUT nothing can be done if that person then passes the Magazine on to Yet another person and they then do the same thing (just as I get extra copies of the Magazines donated to our Club Library and the membership is free to use/read the magazines articles as they see fit.
Having the digital content and able to down load a copy - ONLY allowes YOU the origianl purcherser to use the DOWN LOAD.
This is what everyone is hoping to accomplish by going to Digital Content only - now they have a leg to stand on if someone make a copy of the Digital info and gives it to another perosn. Now thay are liable for copywrite problems.
Funny how they are not able to control the Magazine content once it is printed but want to control the Digital format!
Most everyone missed that part of the plan!
It is customary for digital publications to license their content to the user. The user does not own anything (except the license to use the content). Thus, a digital copy of MR is not the same as a paper copy of MR.
But, I'm not a lawyer. I'm just a model railroader that still remembers when model railroading was fun.
Jaime
Some interesting questions and concerns have been raised. What happens when you stop paying for cable? I have and you no longer can access the previous content.
Per the digital magazines mine are all on 2 hard drives as is a copy of the installation software.
But I believe the only way to make money for all access is a monthly fee. If the videos can be downloaded users can sub for a month copy then cancel. Wait 6 months to a year and repeat.........
While we are well into the digital age we seem also to be at a crossroads where there are both digital & paper options for either or both. Each one
having benefits & disadvantages over the other.
Ok, I get that.
But perhaps what is happening is that we are seeing the early stages of the end of paper magazines, especially those publications with a limited circulation amongst special interest groups such as ours.
Magazines with a mass circulation, while seeing their circulation & readership decline, will no doubt continue for a while yet.
Kalmbach Publishing will be aware of the apparent sucess of MRH, the digital only magazine & delivered free each month with additional articles arriving between issues. Because of the dig7tal nature of MRH, it will have more of an appeal to the younger generation where any growth in our hobbie will be found.
Just to stand still, each of us who head of to the eternal train room (aren't euphemisms great), will need to see our places taken by a much younger person startiig out at the other end.
I guess that these are just scattered thoughts - I have no factual basis from which to propoupnd any of them. Other than what logic suggests, I do see a future - pehaps not immediately, when digital will be all that there is.
Going to play devils advocate
I'm trying to understand if the loss of all of my mags, digital or paper, would really have that much affect on me?
I subscribe to MR digital and have some RMC's as digital (which is working fine thank you)
The web is full of so much information anything lost, to me, could be replaced, if I really needed it. (How many ballasting track articles do you need?)
I believe there is much concern about nothing short of your own personal data (pictures, videos) that cannot be replaced.
I have the MR DVD btw, and have zero worries about my ability to view it in 10 years, as a lot of the information in them are out of date or new methods have replaced the old.
This is my experience, others obviously differ.
I subscribe to Alldata but only when I need access to the automobiles service manuals to repair my own vehicles, I can subscribe for a a single model vehicle, for a short time, long enough to get the information I need to perform the repair. I don't care to pay for a complete hard copy factory service manual that I won't need, only for the pages that I do. (professional service manuals, not Chiltons)
"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination."-Albert Einstein
http://gearedsteam.blogspot.com/
While all these opinions are interesting, Obviously the staff @ MR has already decided on the format or they wouldn't have printed the tease announcement. But just in case, please don't drop the printed magazine.
I'm dissapointed to see that Kalmbach continue to view us readers as a cash cow. The digital version ought to be a freebie to print subscribers like other magazines do (for example american cinematographer is free digitial version with a paper subscription) and the archive ought to be free to subscribers while they subscribe... As an incentive to continue to subscribe. Charging $5 per month on top of a paper subscription for the archive is extortion.
JL UK I'm dissapointed [sic] to see that Kalmbach continue to view us readers as a cash cow.
I'm dissapointed [sic] to see that Kalmbach continue to view us readers as a cash cow.
While I agree with this to some extent, I don't think it's that simple.
Kalmbach wants it both ways - they want to sell their product while not giving the purchaser reasonably unfettered access to it. The first makes lots of sense as that's what keeps them in business. The second displays a strong paranoia that their intellectual property will be stolen and distributed all over the internet by some ne'er-do-wells. While a reasonable level of concern regarding this is good, Kalmbach goes way overboard, and are alienating a (probably small) minority segment of their customer base with their approach.
The 75th anniversary DVD's are a great example. These were not sold as a temporary way to access all 75 years of MR; in fact the implication was just the opposite. Now it turns out that, after only a few years, a new operating system (OS) won't read the DVD. Kalmbach has three options:
The first option may or may not be prohibitively expensive, depending on the complexity of the patch / application needed to properly read the DVD. But it would support the purchasers, at least for the near term. For the longer term, it may be a recurring cost.
The second option seems pretty drastic, and Neil's comments in this thread seem to be reasonable. But consider - The DVD's are no longer available, and apparently will not be available again in the future. So they've already been paid for all that material, leaving one wondering exactly what they have to lose by allowing free access at this point. The answer to this is obviously that there is an intent to sell this very same content yet again, and in fact we will soon have the "All-Access Pass," which will do exactly that. Another point to keep in mind also is that Kalmbach still has all the tools publishers have always had to protect their products - National and International Intellecual Property protection, known more colloqially as patent / copyright laws, which cover both the digital and hardcopy realms.
The third option, which is certainly the cheapest (at least at first glance), is to do exactly what Kalmbach did - disavow any responsibility to support their product, period. This has some cost, though, in terms both of customer goodwill and lost customer revenue into the future. These days there's also the risk (probably slight) that in this litigious climate one or more of the left-out-in-the-cold customers will file suit to recover the cost of the too-soon useless product at what to many is significant cost.
Sorry - long winded.
Mark P.
Website: http://www.thecbandqinwyoming.comVideos: https://www.youtube.com/user/mabrunton
Brunton These days there's also the risk (probably slight) that in this litigious climate one or more of the left-out-in-the-cold customers will file suit to recover the cost of the too-soon useless product
These days there's also the risk (probably slight) that in this litigious climate one or more of the left-out-in-the-cold customers will file suit to recover the cost of the too-soon useless product
Zero risk of that. If you want to use a given software package, you have to use it in the enviroment that it was developed to be executed in. The responsibility is on YOU to provide an operating system that works for the software that was sold to you on the understanding that it works on a predetermined set of operating systems. I can't go back to EA and sue them because Need for Speed: Porsche Unleashed refuses to run on a Windows 7 machine when it was developed for a Win98 machine.
I am new to model railroading and have bought just about every book kalmbach publishes as well as online and paper subscriptions. I have MRV plus as well. I bough the 75 year DVD and now cannot access it. Their decision to leave me with out access has got me rethinking Kalmbach.
And there are utilitites in for Windows that probably WILL let that Win98 program run on Win7.
All is not lost because APple did something silly in the latest OSX - There are several options to allow you to run other operating systems within OSX, so that you can run an instance of Windows (and not dual boot with Bootcamp, more like a VM like Fusion or Parallels) and run the MR DVD in there. It works with Win 7 and should still work fine with 8/8.1, the Adobe software used for it still runs on newer versions of Windows. It's not like a high performance game that may be sluggish in a virtual machine on a non-native OS, there's nothing about the MR DVD that requires ultra high speed graphics.
We're still speculating, but if All-Access requires an internet connection the entire time, it will be next to useless. It needs to be at LEAST like an e-book, where I connect, download the book I want to read, and then I do not need an internet connection to finish that book, only to get any additional books. If it expires in 30 days and needs to be redownloaded, or needs to 'phone home" on some reasonable basis, like every 30 days, that would be fine. That would allow you to load up some reading material, and then take off on vacation.
It's the prices that lead me to the "cash cow" conclusion. The digital versions of Kalmbachs books and special editions are hardly cheaper than the print editions.
when the digital magazine costs 27.00 on top of a physical subscription I am left wondering why there is any extra cost at all?
Why is the archive a rental model? Let me buy and download the issues I need for a small fee per issue, a dollar perhaps?
Pin my opinion back issues are something you need now and again for a specific article, not something that one subscribes to for 5.00 per month indefinitely.
Library subscription models are surely better suited to services where the content is refreshed constantly like Spotify or Lovefilm.
Three months on and still no details released on the new "All Access Pass". Come on MR, we're waiting!
NittanyLionZero risk of that. If you want to use a given software package, you have to use it in the enviroment that it was developed to be executed in. The responsibility is on YOU to provide an operating system that works for the software that was sold to you on the understanding that it works on a predetermined set of operating systems. I can't go back to EA and sue them because Need for Speed: Porsche Unleashed refuses to run on a Windows 7 machine when it was developed for a Win98 machine.
As far as the DVD's being a software package - as I recall (correct me if I'm wrong) the advertising sold the DVD's as a digital collection of all MR's produced up to then. NOT as a "software package." Certainly room for argument about that, which is the foundation of almost all civil litigation.
I often have quite strong opinions and have my comments not posted, because of this - but I'll try again. I too, am rethinking Kalmbach - rrinker poses work-arounds for the software not working on the new Apple OS. Kalmbach (Through Steven Otte) pretty much says 'don't upgrade', and then locks that post.
Coming up with a potential work-around like rrinker did, would leave a much better taste in peoples mouths. Perhaps it wouldn't work for everyone, but some information is better than telling your customers sorry - nothing we can do; especially knowing that there actually is somthing that can be done - suggesting work arounds or publishing the password to name two.
I wonder if Kalmbach really knows what they are going to do with the all access pass, or are actively monitoring posts in threads like this to see what would be the best route for them to follow. I find the moderators curiously silent on what is a hot topic for their customers.
I know they do more than just monitor these forums for posts that break the rules, so it is very likely that the concerns being raised in this and other threads on this are having an influence in what the final product will be.
Since I spend approximately 200 days out of the year deployed the determining factor is going to be if I can view offline. I'll pay the cost of it if I can download and save the content for later (underwater on a submarine). If not I'll stick to reading back issues of MRH, seeing as how my 75th anniversary DVD's no longer work on my Mac Book. 200 bucks down the drain. Especially since I bought the dvd set specifically for my deployments.
Jason
Modeling the Fort Worth & Denver of the early 1970's in N scale
Project phase one: X number of people complaining that an advertised product is not yet available.
Project phase two: Y number of people complaining that the now available advertised product is too expensive.
jguess733 Since I spend approximately 200 days out of the year deployed the determining factor is going to be if I can view offline. I'll pay the cost of it if I can download and save the content for later (underwater on a submarine). If not I'll stick to reading back issues of MRH, seeing as how my 75th anniversary DVD's no longer work on my Mac Book. 200 bucks down the drain. Especially since I bought the dvd set specifically for my deployments.
Like I said - Fusion, or Parallels, or VirtualBox (VirtualBox is free), to set up a Windows VM. XP or newer will all run the DVD. Fusion and Parallels aren't free, but do have the benefit of making it a seamless app - you can have an icon on your launch bar that fires up the VM just as if it were a native OSX apps and even windows alongside other VMs and native apps.
Thanks Randy, I'll give it a try.
jguess733 Thanks Randy, I'll give it a try.
You will need a licensed version of Windows after you procure thevirtualization software.
All of which can be had (legally) for under $100, for Win 7 or 8.1.
Or you can use the VM to run a VM of the previous version of OSX, which works with the DVD collection. Depending on what Apple says about licensing it. Shame Adobe never made their software for Linux, then it could be a free solution all around - although heck, it might run under the latest WINE in Linux. I have to dig out my railroad computer and load WINE and see if it works. Using VirtualBox, it would be a 100% free and/or open source solution, though a tad more complex than just running a Windows VM.
If I had my DVD set with me, I'd set up a Linux VM and install WINE and try it. I could make the resulting VM available as a ready to go option. Won't be back to my DVD until next week though.
It's here! The All Access page has gone up. Go to www.modelrailroader.com/AllAccess $4.95 per month additional to an existing subscription gives you access to the archive and Video Plus. Strangely they are actually billing it monthly. I would rather a single yearly bill. Cannot wait to see how it works.
Just signed up! Looks like a great deal. Thanks MR!
Cliff Powers
www.magnoliaroute.com
Are you able to print the archives?
NEMMRRC Are you able to print the archives? Jaime
Yes, I just printed a page with no troubles.
Dean
30 years 1:1 Canadian Pacific.....now switching in HO
Thank you. That is good news.
How does the billing work?
Monthly. Though I would rather see an option for a year at a time or something.
Only offline option appears to be printing, which doesn;t seem to be working for me, unless I am selecting too many pages. OK, I guess I just didn't wait long enough, as I went to try it in a different browser, ny print dialog finally came up. Printed out and looks fine, but iof there's a way to select all pages instead of one by one clicking through an entire issue, I missed it.
Hmm, are they going to add the special issues, or else reprint that DVD? Its the only one I missed out on. I have a few missing MRPs and GMRRs, and I'd love to see those old Model Trains magazines from the 50's.
I may need to call on Monday, my account now shows an archive subscription ending April 2015 and another end Jan 25, 2015. I guess I should have looked before I just ordered, because I have MRVP already. Usually these things work themselves out, or they have when I renewed MR or Digital MR well before the precious subscription expired (looks like I have digital MR until 2018 at present...). Have to check back after the weekend I guess.
They have an app for offline viewing. Looks like it's time to fill up the IPAD before my next deployment.
How is the search feature? Any improvements?
From a few quick tries - nope. Best to use one of the other magazine index sites to find the issue and page you are looking for. I didn't try a lot, and unlike the installed verion it's lacking the options for "and" and "all words" so I experimented a bit with quotes and it does seem to use that sort of notation to distinguish between looking for any of the words vs all of the words.
Does kind of stink that my prototype also happens to be an action verb. Which is how most people not familiar with the area (mis)pronounce it.
jguess733 They have an app for offline viewing. Looks like it's time to fill up the IPAD before my next deployment.
There's an app? Where does it say that?
rrinker jguess733 They have an app for offline viewing. Looks like it's time to fill up the IPAD before my next deployment. There's an app? Where does it say that? --Randy
Here is link to iOS app:
Model Railroader Issue Archive by Kalmbach Publishing Co.
https://appsto.re/us/WQIh3.i
I downloaded the Android App from the Play Store. I can't seem to find a search function. I the only option I seem to have is to scroll through the list of issues from the latest back.
Yeah I found the app when I checked for updates on my iPad. No search, just pick an issue and download it (after logging in with your account info).
Haven't turned off my wifi to see if it works offline though.
-Randy
~$60 a year plus an MR subscription, is close on close on $100 a year - too much for my hobby budget!
Software Tools ~$60 a year plus an MR subscription, is close on close on $100 a year - too much for my hobby budget!
Well, given you can stop the all accesses pass any time, I see it as $5 for one month's worth of archive retrieval. I may get it only when I need to retrieve any old issues I don't have on paper.
Those wishing to to get rid of their paper issues and not using the 75th DVD are the ones that will pay a lot for it.
JL UK I'm dissapointed to see that Kalmbach continue to view us readers as a cash cow. The digital version ought to be a freebie to print subscribers like other magazines do (for example american cinematographer is free digitial version with a paper subscription) and the archive ought to be free to subscribers while they subscribe... As an incentive to continue to subscribe. Charging $5 per month on top of a paper subscription for the archive is extortion.
I just subscribed to the All Access Pass. I thought $5 a month was pretty reasonable, considering it gives me access to MRVP as well as the archive. I have both a paper and digital subscription, and I think $12 a year for the convenience of being able to read MR on my tablet is great value.
I signed up last night. The price is very reasonable and looking at all the old issues has been great. What I like is I can drop it the summer months and then add it in the winter.
My only complaint is it does not have a full page mode like Zino.
Also, if you already have a print or digital subscription and MR Video Plus, you can go into the "manage your account" section and you'll have an option to purchase the archive for only $3.95 per month.
Since I found the app, I've been using my iPad pretty much exclusively. The reading experience is pretty good, at least with my gull size one in portrait mode (not a Mini). The only thing I see they really need to change is the issue browser. Unlike the web site where you can pick a year and then see each month, on the iPad app, you have to start at the current issue and scroll up. and up. and up. and up. It can take a long time to get back to the 50's and 60's.
If it weren;t for other magazines I have through Zinio, I could blow it all off, since the MR Archive app gets the most current issue as well as all the old ones.
edschonack Also, if you already have a print or digital subscription and MR Video Plus, you can go into the "manage your account" section and you'll have an option to purchase the archive for only $3.95 per month.
Thanks, I didn't see that!
mactier_hogger edschonack Also, if you already have a print or digital subscription and MR Video Plus, you can go into the "manage your account" section and you'll have an option to purchase the archive for only $3.95 per month. Thanks, I didn't see that! And I still don't see it.
And I still don't see it.
Can I save an issue or print an issue to a PDF file?
Modeling BNSF and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin
jrbernier Can I save an issue or print an issue to a PDF file? Jim
I just saved several pages as a *.PDF using Fox It reader and also as a *.one using Microsoft One Note.
You have to click on each page in a print view box. Not sure if I could keep adding pages until the complete magazine would be saved.
I signed up last night. I try to be positive about most things (my wife hates complainers), but I find the OS app seriously lacking. Here are my concerns:
If the rest of the downloads take as long as the two issues I downloaded last night, I'll be cancelling my subscription very soon.
Ray,
What are you using for your OS? And is this a smartphone/Mac/Windows system?
Update:
While the OS app for iPad is lacking, I just discovered that the archives can also be viewed on a PC. While not as convienent for late night browsing as the iPad, it will definately help for searching specific articles and printing selected pages. The download speed to the computer was as fast as I could scroll through pages, so that was refreshing.
Jim,
Thanks for your response. I was typing the above update while you were typing yours. As you can see in the updated post, I was using the OS iPad app. I'm very pleased to find that the archives can be accessed through multiple platforms.
Ray
I'm not too worried about the search, since the one on the web site still pretty much stinks. I use the NMRA Magazine Index to find things, so I can do the same on my ipad. The download speed though IS horrible. Zinio downloads issues MUCH faster, but of course only goes back to when I started my digital subscription. It's definitely the app or the servers behind it, since Zinio is on the very same iPad with the very same WiFi and internet connection. The app also locks up a LOT if you scroll past where it has downloaded so far. Once an issue is downloaded, it's pretty quick to page through an issue.
Colorado Ray Update: While the OS app for iPad is lacking, I just discovered that the archives can also be viewed on a PC. While not as convienent for late night browsing as the iPad, it will definately help for searching specific articles and printing selected pages. The download speed to the computer was as fast as I could scroll through pages, so that was refreshing.
Where did you find the MR archive on the web browser? I've been searching all over MRs site for it. I agree, the iPad app could use some work but I'm sure it will get much better in future updates.
I spoke with Kalmbach customer service this afternoon, as I had some questions.
I had purchased the MR Video Plus extension that was offered to the original 'charter' MRVP subscribers. This took me through Mar 2015. My MR print subscription ends in Mar 2016. The $3.95/month is to add the archive to a magazine subscription(either print or digital). The $4.95 adds both MRVP & Archive to the base magazine subscription. They said I would be better off going with the 4.95 one and would start that billing in Mar 2015 - and I got the archive right away. Very nice that they were able to 'dovetail' this in. I was able to use the archive right away and tried it from my laptop - the print worked good, and printing to a PDF file worked fine. I downloaded the 'app' from Google Play and it works on my Samsung GS5 - just no search capability. What I really like is that I can look at the new Feb 2015 issue right now(the print issue has not arrived in my mailbox yet).
Are the special issues (the planning issues and the greatest model railroads issues) included in the archive as well?
Not yet. I really hope they do, that's the one DVD collection I misse dout on, and I really want that one.
Have not been able to download any thing what a waste!
!
Matt,
To get to the Windows PC version, pull down the menu under "Magazine " on the tool bar. Click on the blue text "MR subscribers ....." It will open with the current issue. There's a navigation panel on the bottom that lets you scroll to any issue by year and month.
i tried this from my iPad and got a full screen version of the current issue, but couldn't find the navigation panel to scroll to other issues.
Btw, I got so frustrated with the mobile OS app, that I deleted it. I'll only access the archives from my PC.
I must admit that I have enjoyed the trip down memory lane. It's amazing what you remember from old issues. My Dad had MR from 1948 on. I think I must have learned to read with the mid-50's issues. Through many moves, most all of the hard copies got left behind over the years. It's great to revisit some of the early great layouts.
The 'trick' with the iOS app seems to be to just kill it, if you get stuck with a spinner that never ends, or an issue that downloads 2 pages and stops. Wait a few minutes, go back in, select "downloaded issues" so you don;t have to scroll through EVERY issue (the one you selected that didn;t download or only partially download will be there, but still have the green download arrow). Now the issue will download normally. Friustrating, but eventually you get it. There really does need to be a grouping by years like the web app, it takes far too long to scroll back from 2015 to 1961.
Randy's "trick" also works with the Android version. Just exit the app by hitting the "Home" button or icon. Go to settings, then Apps, pick the MR app and force close, click Ok. Go back and reopen the app, select "Downloaded issues" and click on the partially downloaded issue t oget it to complete downloading. For a first effort it isn't bad, just needs to be tweaked. The addition of a decent search function will make this great.
rrinker The 'trick' with the iOS app seems to be to just kill it, if you get stuck with a spinner that never ends, or an issue that downloads 2 pages and stops. Wait a few minutes, go back in, select "downloaded issues" so you don;t have to scroll through EVERY issue (the one you selected that didn;t download or only partially download will be there, but still have the green download arrow). Now the issue will download normally. Friustrating, but eventually you get it. There really does need to be a grouping by years like the web app, it takes far too long to scroll back from 2015 to 1961. --Randy
Neil B.How would you feel if you had bought the DVD set, only to later see all of it posted on someone's personal website for free?
Just like I feel today after it being made available for $2.70 a month.
carl425Just like I feel today after it being made available for $2.70 a month.
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
Que? Has the price changed?
I signed on this week. I first called to understand how it functions. I have Windows 8.1 and IE11, and it does work on that (they need to add IE11 to their list). Since Windows 8 uses "apps" I was disappointed to find that there is not one in the Windows app store for me.
I was ok getting used to how to look at things, how to get to and open an issue. My disappointment is the readibility on my screen. Since the layout is two pages at a time (like an open magazine) the page height is limited. Without zoomng, it is difficult to read the average size text (it's blurry). It's not great when zoomed, but readable. I tried new and older versions since they were recorded differently. I'm not keen on zooming in, then zooming out to move to the right, then zooming in again on the right page. I suspect it's not my screen resolution capability as much as the image quality. Maybe this is all covered above.
I'll keep trying, maybe I'll get used to it.
Paul
Modeling HO with a transition era UP bent
Software Tools carl425 Just like I feel today after it being made available for $2.70 a month. Que? Has the price changed?
carl425 Just like I feel today after it being made available for $2.70 a month.
$2.70 was the price in the email I received because I already subscribe to the magazine and video plus. Some kind of promotion I guess.
I am to be charged $4.95 for the signup / first month, then $2.70 per month until my Video Plus add-on subscription runs out in the fall, thereafter $4.95/month for the access to both.
I signed up for the all access on Friday night, and after I paid I was able to immediately go onto the website. So far no complaints from me, it's not that hard to navigate and to find stuff. I've found it is easier to read on my desktop (I have a larger screen) then my laptop and of course a smartphone. I've already found some of my favorite articles ("If I had a million" By Lynn Westcott) and other favorites from the past.
One thing I'm enjoying is finding all the old structure plans from past issues, in fact I found plans for a fruit packing shed in the July 1987 issue that I'm thinking of building now.
Jeff B
I wish it would have a full screen option like zino. Other than that it is a really nice product and the price is right.
Good job MR
That's why I mostly use it on my iPad - the reading experience there is almost identical to reading the current issues with Zinio, at least in the portrait orientation. One page at a time, nice and large. Oh, and it actually automatically loads the current issue too. If I didn't have other magazines in Zinio, I wouldn't even need the Zinio app any more.
Hitting F11 helps a little.
My wife got a iPad for Christmas. I will give it a try tonite
Soo Line fanI wish it would have a full screen option like zino.
What browser are you using? I know Firefox has a full screen mode, and I think IE does also. I just tried all-access with full screen mode on Firefox - it looks pretty much like Zinio.
That is what I meant when I mentioned F11 (full screen mode on ie and ff).
Zino gets rid of the tool bar at the bottom and the mr archive does not.
Soo Line fanZino gets rid of the tool bar at the bottom and the mr archive does not.
Here's what mine looks like. (This is the whole monitor)
Thanks for the cap. Mine looks like yours at the bottom. Wish the bar could be hidden. The top of your image shows full screen but mine does not.
After work I will look into it somemore.
Maybe there is an easier method for accessing, but I ended up clicking on the banner at the top of the forum page that says, "MR Subscribers, check out the new All-Time Digital Archives." There is a similar link in the "The Magazine" drop-down menu at the top of the page.
Richard
http://mrarchive.mrr.trains.com
I signed up on the phone and they said it would take a few minutes (it was more but not long). I did close my browser and then re-open it. The banner at the top worked after not too long.
Signed up got e-mail back but cannot find a method of signing on and accessing the information? What am I doing wrong?
I signed up today and have already been exploring MR from 1948 (I have a complete set in paper going back to 1949, and isolated copies from the 1930s). One of the first articles I found was an "in progress" report about his layout by John Allen! And of course the ads are interesting, sometimes charming. There were lots of scale drawings back then. Because I was basically skimming page by page I cannot comment on ease of navigation. Nor did I try to print any page (assuming that is possible) to see how it looked. But overall it seems like a worthwhile addition to the website.
Dave Nelson
Here is what mine looks like. First without full screen option.
And this is with full screen selected
Threads merged.
--Steven Otte, Model Railroader senior associate editorsotte@kalmbach.com
Can someone help me find where I can download the entire MR issue as a PDF?
If you look under the tab "Viewing Tips", it describes "DOWNLOAD a PDF version if available." Is this not possible? I can't seem to find the PDF for any issue. Has MR disabled this function or am I just missing where to find this feature?
I jumped in today and am really liking it so far. For instance, I've had an idea for a scratchbuilding project kicking around in my head and hadn't been able to find any articles to help me out, aside from a late 90s RMC article that didn't have any drawings and served more as a "here's an idea!" than "here's how to make this!" article.
Has anyone figured out a good scaling to get drawings to print to the drawn-to scale? The white space on the originals causes the page scans gets resized to fit into the printable area on a good old 8.5x11 sheet of paper, thus throwing off the scaling of any drawing. I'm sure I could trial and error a lot to get to the "ah-ha 107.5% does it!" moment, but if someone ELSE already did it...
I downloaded the App for my iPad and one dislike is that you cannot search by year and when downloading....I do have high speed internet...it takes forever unlike zinio which is lightening fast. I really hope they improve this App.
I have a feeling the app is by the provider they use, and simply gets a picture and title supplied by Kalmbach put in. The IOS (and I assume the Android one is almost identical) app would be 1000% improved if you could just jump to the year you want. For example, the thread on issue of the week - to get to 1958 is over TWO HUNDRED swipes up the list. A little silly - whoever developed that app didn't think about what happens when you have 80+ years of a magazine to serve. 10 years - it might be fine.
MauriceSteve are there any plans to add a search function to the Android app?
As Randy (above) guessed, we didn't write the app software in-house or have it custom-written for us. We purchased an off-the-shelf solution from an outside company. We're aware of the app's limitations, but we don't know when the developer plans to address these issues. In the meantime, we recommend doing your book club reading on the website, where the "Browse Issues" link at the bottom of the screen makes jumping to the year you want a breeze.
I believe it says somewhere in the app who the developer is, we might make more progress reporting directly to them, since this same issue would affect all of their clients, not just Kalmbach, although maybe not to the same degree - like I said, if the entire history of the magazine is only 5-10 years, it's not a huge deal to scroll through. But 80+ like Kalmbach - now we have a problem.
While the web app is much better at locating the issue I want to read, the default landscape orientation on my desktop monitors makes it not a great reading experience, at least compared to downloading issues to my iPad. Plus I can easily carry my iPad anywhere and continue to read offline, not so much with a pair of 24" displays and a full tower desktop. It DOES prove that their database certain can access by jumping directly to a given year, so one would expect the same functionality can be included in the mobile app. It really does seem like just a UI design mistake, in which the developer figured on at most dozens of things to scroll through, rather than 1000 - I must say I've made the same types of mistakes in programs I've written, using the wrong type of control for a specific data input which worked great with a limited test set of data, but once all the data was there, it was no longer as easy to use.
Can I still purchase this access? Can you provide a link to it? I'm getting ready to move and need to condense my magazine ad I subscribe to about 10 differnt magazines a month which includes historical societies and othe publications such as Cowctacher and the NMRA. As usual, Kalmbach was no help.