Oh my goodness - this technical talk is beyond this old geazer also.
But in any event, I think I would find it useful if MRR was made available on DVD or downloadable online access in ten year blocks -maybe even five or an annual.
But I don't have a publishing business to run & a need to generate profits & a dividend for the shareholders. So much that may suit me in this discussion my not generate maximum profits utilizing existing assets such magazine content that has returned a profit n the format it was originaly published.in.
Dusty
Neil,
I appreciate the logistical nightmare that comes with trying to protect your copyright in the digital age. I get there are no easy answers, and that you will not be able to please everyone.
That being said, two things cause me concern on a personal level. One, I have already bought into both digital MR and MR Video Plus until March/April 2016. How will that factor in to my cost for All-Access? Two, the ability to download for offline reading is almost a necessity. Coverage dropouts, server issues/downtime, and anything else Mr Murphy can think of really has me concerned that I will not have the same sense of security that comes from knowing I have archived my own copies.
None of these questions, however, will be answered by a splash ad. I will therefore wait for the formal announcement, and hope my concerns are unfounded.
Chris Ballinger
Modeling the Clementon Branch of the Pennsylvania-Reading Seashore Lines in HO scale
Many, many of us are at or near retirement. That's just demographics, but along with that comes the economics of that demographic. Retired people, in general, don't have as much to spend as those with jobs.
So, what's to happen to those of us who want to cut back on unnecessary expenditures? If I buy a subscription to the paper magazine, I've got that magazine and its contents for as long as I want to keep it. But, if my subscription is digital, if I stop paying the continuing fees, I lose access not only to new content, but to the older content that I'd already payed for, right?
I can go to the public library and read the latest MR, on paper, sitting in a comfy chair off by myself. Will my library subscribe to the digital edition? I'm guessing no, at least not for a while. Libraries have budget constraints, too.
I'm fine with digital content, as long as it's an add-on and not a replacement for the old fashioned magazine.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
The loss of Digital contact with previously paid for content once one quits spending money to keep the subscription going is what everyone is hoping!
Just as some on here have stated many times - THEY only keep relitive articles they CUT from the magazine.
What happens when they decide to change ERAs or Railroads etc?
All of that paper is NOW worthless to them and they now have to go searching for that NEW info about what ever new project they will now be working on.
While storing the paper versions of the magazines takes up lots of room - I much prefer to have them as I will have them (barring Fires - in which case would also take out any stored electronic articles) almost forever.
BUT - having the content on line - is so unreliable - as we all know the Magazine industry is not what it used to be and RMC mag gone for now - is a fine example - if all of the content was online - it too would be gone in an instant. YET - I have all of the OLD RMCs in my train room.
I have Bookmarked many web places that had great into on many subjects and I have went back to them years later - ONLY to find they are gone as well as the content I wanted/needed.
SO - WHAT Good did it do me to EXPECT that the info would always be there to reference to?
This Forun could dissappear tomorrow (Just as the old ALTAS forum did) and no one could stop it!
Just as others had suggested any digital on line information can also dissappear as I have stated above!
If I am spending MY money on information - I WANT it in MY possession - NOT RELYING on someone that I can't control!
YMMV
BOB H - Clarion, PA
cmrproducts While storing the paper versions of the magazines takes up lots of room - I much prefer to have them as I will have them (barring Fires - in which case would also take out any stored electronic articles) almost forever. BUT - having the content on line - is so unreliable - as we all know the Magazine industry is not what it used to be and RMC mag gone for now - is a fine example - if all of the content was online - it too would be gone in an instant. YET - I have all of the OLD RMCs in my train room. (more examples)
(more examples)
Definitely!
Kalmbach (et. al.) are completely entitled to enforcing their copyrights -- but it's be really nice if the decision makers for this thing make it permissive enough to allow us some degree of freedom with things so that we don't lose out in the event that "bad things" happen in the future (bean counters deem it not profitable, Kalmbach is swallowed by another house whose beancounters deem it not profitable, Kalmbach closes [magazines] down, etc.)
-Dan
Builder of Bowser steam! Railimages Site
NeO6874 cmrproducts While storing the paper versions of the magazines takes up lots of room - I much prefer to have them as I will have them (barring Fires - in which case would also take out any stored electronic articles) almost forever. BUT - having the content on line - is so unreliable - as we all know the Magazine industry is not what it used to be and RMC mag gone for now - is a fine example - if all of the content was online - it too would be gone in an instant. YET - I have all of the OLD RMCs in my train room. (more examples) Definitely! Kalmbach (et. al.) are completely entitled to enforcing their copyrights -- but it's be really nice if the decision makers for this thing make it permissive enough to allow us some degree of freedom with things so that we don't lose out in the event that "bad things" happen in the future (bean counters deem it not profitable, Kalmbach is swallowed by another house whose beancounters deem it not profitable, Kalmbach closes [magazines] down, etc.)
One thing I did not state before is -
Once I have the PAPER veriosn of the magazines - I can give it to anyone I choose and they can then copy the articles they so choose as it is stated in the magazines that copies can be made for that persons use!
They can't really stop this use of the magazines (as long as the person making the copies DOES NOT sell the copies and ONLY uses them for personal use)
BUT nothing can be done if that person then passes the Magazine on to Yet another person and they then do the same thing (just as I get extra copies of the Magazines donated to our Club Library and the membership is free to use/read the magazines articles as they see fit.
Having the digital content and able to down load a copy - ONLY allowes YOU the origianl purcherser to use the DOWN LOAD.
This is what everyone is hoping to accomplish by going to Digital Content only - now they have a leg to stand on if someone make a copy of the Digital info and gives it to another perosn. Now thay are liable for copywrite problems.
Funny how they are not able to control the Magazine content once it is printed but want to control the Digital format!
Most everyone missed that part of the plan!
It is customary for digital publications to license their content to the user. The user does not own anything (except the license to use the content). Thus, a digital copy of MR is not the same as a paper copy of MR.
But, I'm not a lawyer. I'm just a model railroader that still remembers when model railroading was fun.
Jaime
Some interesting questions and concerns have been raised. What happens when you stop paying for cable? I have and you no longer can access the previous content.
Per the digital magazines mine are all on 2 hard drives as is a copy of the installation software.
But I believe the only way to make money for all access is a monthly fee. If the videos can be downloaded users can sub for a month copy then cancel. Wait 6 months to a year and repeat.........
Jim
While we are well into the digital age we seem also to be at a crossroads where there are both digital & paper options for either or both. Each one
having benefits & disadvantages over the other.
Ok, I get that.
But perhaps what is happening is that we are seeing the early stages of the end of paper magazines, especially those publications with a limited circulation amongst special interest groups such as ours.
Magazines with a mass circulation, while seeing their circulation & readership decline, will no doubt continue for a while yet.
Kalmbach Publishing will be aware of the apparent sucess of MRH, the digital only magazine & delivered free each month with additional articles arriving between issues. Because of the dig7tal nature of MRH, it will have more of an appeal to the younger generation where any growth in our hobbie will be found.
Just to stand still, each of us who head of to the eternal train room (aren't euphemisms great), will need to see our places taken by a much younger person startiig out at the other end.
I guess that these are just scattered thoughts - I have no factual basis from which to propoupnd any of them. Other than what logic suggests, I do see a future - pehaps not immediately, when digital will be all that there is.
Going to play devils advocate
I'm trying to understand if the loss of all of my mags, digital or paper, would really have that much affect on me?
I subscribe to MR digital and have some RMC's as digital (which is working fine thank you)
The web is full of so much information anything lost, to me, could be replaced, if I really needed it. (How many ballasting track articles do you need?)
I believe there is much concern about nothing short of your own personal data (pictures, videos) that cannot be replaced.
I have the MR DVD btw, and have zero worries about my ability to view it in 10 years, as a lot of the information in them are out of date or new methods have replaced the old.
This is my experience, others obviously differ.
I subscribe to Alldata but only when I need access to the automobiles service manuals to repair my own vehicles, I can subscribe for a a single model vehicle, for a short time, long enough to get the information I need to perform the repair. I don't care to pay for a complete hard copy factory service manual that I won't need, only for the pages that I do. (professional service manuals, not Chiltons)
"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination."-Albert Einstein
http://gearedsteam.blogspot.com/
While all these opinions are interesting, Obviously the staff @ MR has already decided on the format or they wouldn't have printed the tease announcement. But just in case, please don't drop the printed magazine.
I'm dissapointed to see that Kalmbach continue to view us readers as a cash cow. The digital version ought to be a freebie to print subscribers like other magazines do (for example american cinematographer is free digitial version with a paper subscription) and the archive ought to be free to subscribers while they subscribe... As an incentive to continue to subscribe. Charging $5 per month on top of a paper subscription for the archive is extortion.
JL UK I'm dissapointed [sic] to see that Kalmbach continue to view us readers as a cash cow.
I'm dissapointed [sic] to see that Kalmbach continue to view us readers as a cash cow.
While I agree with this to some extent, I don't think it's that simple.
Kalmbach wants it both ways - they want to sell their product while not giving the purchaser reasonably unfettered access to it. The first makes lots of sense as that's what keeps them in business. The second displays a strong paranoia that their intellectual property will be stolen and distributed all over the internet by some ne'er-do-wells. While a reasonable level of concern regarding this is good, Kalmbach goes way overboard, and are alienating a (probably small) minority segment of their customer base with their approach.
The 75th anniversary DVD's are a great example. These were not sold as a temporary way to access all 75 years of MR; in fact the implication was just the opposite. Now it turns out that, after only a few years, a new operating system (OS) won't read the DVD. Kalmbach has three options:
The first option may or may not be prohibitively expensive, depending on the complexity of the patch / application needed to properly read the DVD. But it would support the purchasers, at least for the near term. For the longer term, it may be a recurring cost.
The second option seems pretty drastic, and Neil's comments in this thread seem to be reasonable. But consider - The DVD's are no longer available, and apparently will not be available again in the future. So they've already been paid for all that material, leaving one wondering exactly what they have to lose by allowing free access at this point. The answer to this is obviously that there is an intent to sell this very same content yet again, and in fact we will soon have the "All-Access Pass," which will do exactly that. Another point to keep in mind also is that Kalmbach still has all the tools publishers have always had to protect their products - National and International Intellecual Property protection, known more colloqially as patent / copyright laws, which cover both the digital and hardcopy realms.
The third option, which is certainly the cheapest (at least at first glance), is to do exactly what Kalmbach did - disavow any responsibility to support their product, period. This has some cost, though, in terms both of customer goodwill and lost customer revenue into the future. These days there's also the risk (probably slight) that in this litigious climate one or more of the left-out-in-the-cold customers will file suit to recover the cost of the too-soon useless product at what to many is significant cost.
Sorry - long winded.
Mark P.
Website: http://www.thecbandqinwyoming.comVideos: https://www.youtube.com/user/mabrunton
Brunton These days there's also the risk (probably slight) that in this litigious climate one or more of the left-out-in-the-cold customers will file suit to recover the cost of the too-soon useless product
These days there's also the risk (probably slight) that in this litigious climate one or more of the left-out-in-the-cold customers will file suit to recover the cost of the too-soon useless product
Zero risk of that. If you want to use a given software package, you have to use it in the enviroment that it was developed to be executed in. The responsibility is on YOU to provide an operating system that works for the software that was sold to you on the understanding that it works on a predetermined set of operating systems. I can't go back to EA and sue them because Need for Speed: Porsche Unleashed refuses to run on a Windows 7 machine when it was developed for a Win98 machine.
I am new to model railroading and have bought just about every book kalmbach publishes as well as online and paper subscriptions. I have MRV plus as well. I bough the 75 year DVD and now cannot access it. Their decision to leave me with out access has got me rethinking Kalmbach.
And there are utilitites in for Windows that probably WILL let that Win98 program run on Win7.
All is not lost because APple did something silly in the latest OSX - There are several options to allow you to run other operating systems within OSX, so that you can run an instance of Windows (and not dual boot with Bootcamp, more like a VM like Fusion or Parallels) and run the MR DVD in there. It works with Win 7 and should still work fine with 8/8.1, the Adobe software used for it still runs on newer versions of Windows. It's not like a high performance game that may be sluggish in a virtual machine on a non-native OS, there's nothing about the MR DVD that requires ultra high speed graphics.
We're still speculating, but if All-Access requires an internet connection the entire time, it will be next to useless. It needs to be at LEAST like an e-book, where I connect, download the book I want to read, and then I do not need an internet connection to finish that book, only to get any additional books. If it expires in 30 days and needs to be redownloaded, or needs to 'phone home" on some reasonable basis, like every 30 days, that would be fine. That would allow you to load up some reading material, and then take off on vacation.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
It's the prices that lead me to the "cash cow" conclusion. The digital versions of Kalmbachs books and special editions are hardly cheaper than the print editions.
when the digital magazine costs 27.00 on top of a physical subscription I am left wondering why there is any extra cost at all?
Why is the archive a rental model? Let me buy and download the issues I need for a small fee per issue, a dollar perhaps?
Pin my opinion back issues are something you need now and again for a specific article, not something that one subscribes to for 5.00 per month indefinitely.
Library subscription models are surely better suited to services where the content is refreshed constantly like Spotify or Lovefilm.
Three months on and still no details released on the new "All Access Pass". Come on MR, we're waiting!
NittanyLionZero risk of that. If you want to use a given software package, you have to use it in the enviroment that it was developed to be executed in. The responsibility is on YOU to provide an operating system that works for the software that was sold to you on the understanding that it works on a predetermined set of operating systems. I can't go back to EA and sue them because Need for Speed: Porsche Unleashed refuses to run on a Windows 7 machine when it was developed for a Win98 machine.
As far as the DVD's being a software package - as I recall (correct me if I'm wrong) the advertising sold the DVD's as a digital collection of all MR's produced up to then. NOT as a "software package." Certainly room for argument about that, which is the foundation of almost all civil litigation.
I often have quite strong opinions and have my comments not posted, because of this - but I'll try again. I too, am rethinking Kalmbach - rrinker poses work-arounds for the software not working on the new Apple OS. Kalmbach (Through Steven Otte) pretty much says 'don't upgrade', and then locks that post.
Coming up with a potential work-around like rrinker did, would leave a much better taste in peoples mouths. Perhaps it wouldn't work for everyone, but some information is better than telling your customers sorry - nothing we can do; especially knowing that there actually is somthing that can be done - suggesting work arounds or publishing the password to name two.
I wonder if Kalmbach really knows what they are going to do with the all access pass, or are actively monitoring posts in threads like this to see what would be the best route for them to follow. I find the moderators curiously silent on what is a hot topic for their customers.
I know they do more than just monitor these forums for posts that break the rules, so it is very likely that the concerns being raised in this and other threads on this are having an influence in what the final product will be.
Since I spend approximately 200 days out of the year deployed the determining factor is going to be if I can view offline. I'll pay the cost of it if I can download and save the content for later (underwater on a submarine). If not I'll stick to reading back issues of MRH, seeing as how my 75th anniversary DVD's no longer work on my Mac Book. 200 bucks down the drain. Especially since I bought the dvd set specifically for my deployments.
Jason
Modeling the Fort Worth & Denver of the early 1970's in N scale
Project phase one: X number of people complaining that an advertised product is not yet available.
Project phase two: Y number of people complaining that the now available advertised product is too expensive.
jguess733 Since I spend approximately 200 days out of the year deployed the determining factor is going to be if I can view offline. I'll pay the cost of it if I can download and save the content for later (underwater on a submarine). If not I'll stick to reading back issues of MRH, seeing as how my 75th anniversary DVD's no longer work on my Mac Book. 200 bucks down the drain. Especially since I bought the dvd set specifically for my deployments.
Like I said - Fusion, or Parallels, or VirtualBox (VirtualBox is free), to set up a Windows VM. XP or newer will all run the DVD. Fusion and Parallels aren't free, but do have the benefit of making it a seamless app - you can have an icon on your launch bar that fires up the VM just as if it were a native OSX apps and even windows alongside other VMs and native apps.
Thanks Randy, I'll give it a try.
jguess733 Thanks Randy, I'll give it a try.
You will need a licensed version of Windows after you procure thevirtualization software.
All of which can be had (legally) for under $100, for Win 7 or 8.1.
Or you can use the VM to run a VM of the previous version of OSX, which works with the DVD collection. Depending on what Apple says about licensing it. Shame Adobe never made their software for Linux, then it could be a free solution all around - although heck, it might run under the latest WINE in Linux. I have to dig out my railroad computer and load WINE and see if it works. Using VirtualBox, it would be a 100% free and/or open source solution, though a tad more complex than just running a Windows VM.
If I had my DVD set with me, I'd set up a Linux VM and install WINE and try it. I could make the resulting VM available as a ready to go option. Won't be back to my DVD until next week though.
It's here! The All Access page has gone up. Go to www.modelrailroader.com/AllAccess $4.95 per month additional to an existing subscription gives you access to the archive and Video Plus. Strangely they are actually billing it monthly. I would rather a single yearly bill. Cannot wait to see how it works.
Just signed up! Looks like a great deal. Thanks MR!
Cliff Powers
www.magnoliaroute.com