I originally posted this to another thread that was seven years old. I did that because there had been a couple of recent posts about lost engines. Instead of letting the post wither in an old thread I thought it might be interesting to hear about other lost engines.
Here is the copied post:
"I know this is an old thread but the recent posts about sunken engines bring up an interesting topic, i.e. lost engines.
We have a local legend of a lost train.
I live close to Tottenham, Ontario where the South Simcoe Railway runs 4-4-0 #136 that is, if memory serves correctly, 135 years old and has been operating for all of its life, save for downtime to do boiler rebuilds etc. It was used in the Pierre Burton TV series called "The National Dream: Building the Impossible Railway" and it travelled the whole distance from Tottenham to British Columbia under its own power to film the series. That was in 1974.
http://southsimcoerailway.ca/
Here is a link to the TV series. It was very well done.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_National_Dream_%28TV_miniseries%29
Unfortuneatly the SSR website seems to be a little outdated in some places, and lacks a lot of information about steamer #136.
Anyhow, I digress. Sorry.
When you take the train from Tottenham to Beeton the conductor tells a story about a steam engine that disappeared in the fog one day while running on the same track. Supposedly it fell into a creek and sank without a trace. They have a lot of fun with the story. At one point the conductor tells the passengers that the whistle of the lost train can still be heard, at which point the engineer toots a few times. The creek is barely big enough to sink a wheelbarrow let alone a steam engine and train. Its all malarky of course but it adds a lot of fun to the excursion.
I saw another wrecked steam engine in Cuba a few years ago, except instead of being sunk in a marsh this one was on prominant display outside our resort. The resort had a railroad theme - rather tacky I might add. At first glance all you saw was an old steamer, but once you studied it a bit you realized that the frame was twisted rather badly and some of the major components were no longer connected as they should have been. I guess that was an example of how to make use of a wreck. Put it on a pedestal and build a huge resort around it! Please remember - no politics!
Dave"
Here are the other two recent posts to the old thread:
"At the bottom of Kerr lake in North Carolina, the is a steam locomotive. Before there was a lake, a bridge went across a river. The bridge was damaged in a forest fire, so the two brothers who operated the locomotive came up with an idea. They would stop before the bridge and one would walk to the other side, then the other would open the throttle and jump off. When the locomotive got to the other side, the first one would jump on and stop the train, and wait for the second one to walk across. They did this for awhile with out incedent. Finally the bridge was repaired so they decided to go across in the locomotive. Sadly, the bridge failed sending the brothers and the locomotive to a watery grave. The locomotive was never recovered because it went deep into the mud. Locals use to swim down and ring the bell, but then the dam was built, and it is now under sixty feet of water."
"I have a locomotive buried out back almost in my back yard. My grandmother used to tell me of a locomotive that fell off the tracks and sank into the marsh. The ground was so soft it sank away and could not be recovered. Its called Chandlers marsh in East Lansin Michigan. There is a bunch of student housing built up in the area which is called "The Landings". There is a huge field here which up until recently was a sod farm and is now a corn field. I spent some time researching it and if I'm right the date was 1869. My grandmother said that townsfolk laughed at the idea of running the tracks through the Marsh and after the derailment the railroad moved the tracks further north to what is now the corner of Chandler Rd and State Rd."
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Only recently, a sunken engine was discovered in midst of the Rhine river in Germany. The loco dates back to 1852 and never saw service. While being transported on a sailing barge from the shop to the railroad, a storm hit, the barge capsized and the loco "fell" into the river, sinking deep into the mud. The loco´s name? "The Rhine" - what else?
Now there is a fundraiser going on to have that loco retrieved from its wet grave. It is expected to be in an excellent state.
Ulrich:
That is an interesting story! I really hope that the locomotive can be raised. Perhaps you could post a link here to the organization that is working on raising the locomotive. Maybe some MR forum participants might be willing to part with a buck or two to help. I will!
Thanks
Dave
Dave,
this project is handled by the Foundation "Bahnwelt Darmstadt-Kranichstein". This foundation operates the railroad museum in Darmstadt, one of the largest collection of railroad equipment in Germany. They also operate a number of steam train excursions in Germany.
If you wish to support this project, write an email to these folks, and they will be able to tell, how that can be done from outside of Germany:
Their email address is: stiftung@bahnwelt.de
More info on the project can be found here - sorry, the page is in German only, but Google translate will help you grab the contents.
Thanks Ulrich. I'm not quite sure how to use the translater so any tips would help.
Santa Fe All The Way:
Pity the poor guys who were running the thing! I hope they were able to jump in time.
just copy and paste the link into the translater and hit the button translate.
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
Lake Erie has at least 2 1850 era steam locomotives laying on her bottom.According to the greal lake ship wreck book I read these locomotives was bound for the Rock Island Railroad.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Sir Madog Dave, just copy and paste the link into the translater and hit the button translate.
Also, if you are using Google Chrome when you go to the site you will automatically get a dropdown that asks you if you want to translate. Vey handy.
Joe
Lake Michigan has at least two car ferries that went down, and since thier discovery the cars look to be in far shape. Course since they are shipwrecks, at least in this case, they are graves, so getting the cars might present a bit of a problem. There are also rumors of a couple of logging engines and drag line stationary engines left in the woods of northern Wisconsin.
I believe it was in the Bay of Bengal where two Chinese built 2-8-2 Mikado steam engines being shipped to the U.S. for excursion railroads went overboard during a storm off the coast of India several years ago.
The 4-4-0 of Richmond. A complete 1860's train is buried underneath Roanoke in the state of Virginia.
There is RUMORED to be a sunken locomotive in the city of Pittsburgh.
Plus I have put one on my eventual layout.
(My Model Railroad, My Rules)
These are the opinions of an under 35 , from the east end of, and modeling, the same section of the Wheeling and Lake Erie railway. As well as a freelanced road (Austinville and Dynamite City railroad).
It's not a rumor. When the old turning pool for the Mainline Canal was filled a locomotive and other debry was tossed in.
Researching and writing about railroads for a living, I can tell you that most stories like this are urban legends. Most locos that went under water were recovered. A very few were not, for various reasons. I think the ones already recounted here are fact, however.
Here is one that is fact: In 1939, a Pacific, Boston & Maine No. 3666, and a passenger car went into the Piscataqua River near Portsmouth, New Hampshire. The engineer and fireman perished, but the rest of train crew and passengers survived, because when the air hose parted btw the first and second car, the rest of the train stopped. The locomotive is in deep, fast moving water, dangerous for divers, though some have been down there and viewed the locomotive. This incident has been verified and the loco is down there. Reportedly, it has been moved twice but not removed to make room for watercraft or because it was a potential hazzard for a nearby highway bridge. It's likely only the boiler and running gear have survived. Some artifiacts have been brought up and the B&M Historical Society has a part from the valve gear in its collection.
Victor A. Baird
www.erstwhilepublications.com
wabash2800Researching and writing about railroads for a living, I can tell you that most stories like this are urban legends. Most locos that went under water were recovered. A very few were not, for various reasons. I think the ones already recounted here are fact, however.
I have often wondered about that..Stories abound of Great Lake ships that sunk during storms with all hands and tells of gold and other treasures still laying on the bottom of the Great Lakes.
Stories of sunken Railroad car ferries with their cargo..
Wasn't there a means of recovering the freight car's lading or was paying for the freight car and their loads cheaper?
What about that D&RGW standard gauge articulated steam engine buried in the old tunnel at Tennesee Pass which parallels the active tunnel (before the line was closed in 1996) =P
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
I'll give you a shovel.
Here is the story of 2 locomotives left in the Maine woods when the logging operations were stopped.
http://www.maine.gov/dacf/parks/discover_history_explore_nature/history/allagash/index.shtml
Ron High
There's a lost loco in the sand of a river in eastern Colorado along I-70. Kansas Pacific, IIRC, went through a washed out bridge circa 1870-ish and basically got buried in the quicksand at that spot. This story may have been in one of the CRRM Colorado Rail Annuals or maybe Trains, not sure.
With all the hidden track, mountains and various staging locations, I lose a loco from time to time, too. If it's a sound loco and still under power on the tracks, just need to toot the horn. If not, it gets more complicated...
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
I'm in the third of a five volume history of NP steam. As you can imagine, there's a LOT of detail. It seems that every wreck on the NP is mentioned, at least if it includes a locomotive with significant damage. In the early days, the builders were a little, uh, unconservative in their grading and bridge building. And so a number of locomotives went into the water. As far as I remember, they retrieved every one of them and returned them to operation.
In deep water, retrieval can cost more than the worth of the sunken locomotive. If so, there is no reason to raise it. Also, for railroad organizations that are capitally-challenged, such as small logging operations, retrieval might be impossible.
But it does seem that regular railroads just HATE to leave a locomotive by the side of the road.
Ed
Thanks everyone for sharing your information.
is the story of 2 locomotives left in the Maine woods when the logging operations were stopped.
Ron:
Funny you should bring that one up as I wrote an article about one of those two locomotives that included a description of the Maine operation in the July 1991 issue of Trains magazine! The title was From the Maine to the Orient. One of the two locos is the only existing Lake Shore & Michigan Southern locomotive in existence.
There are rumored to be a few steam locomotives in the area that are on the now abandoned Eglin AFB railroad in the woods along the old RoW
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eglin_Air_Force_Base_Railroad
In my mind, only someone who is daft would even begin looking in the wooded-over areas. The reason as the whole area is part of the remote range and local wildlife isn't exactly friendly.
Vincent
Wants: 1. high-quality, sound equipped, SD40-2s, C636s, C30-7s, and F-units in BN. As for ones that don't cost an arm and a leg, that's out of the question....
2. An end to the limited-production and other crap that makes models harder to get and more expensive.
Checking E.D. Worley's book Iron Horses of The Santa Fe Trail (Southwest Railroad Historical Society, Philip M. Dybvig Inc., Box 29952, Dallas, TX 75229, copyright 1965; reprinted 1976), I found that at least two Santa Fe steam locomotives were lost in a flood in the Kaw River at Topeka on July 13, 1951. They were:
2-8-2 3167, Baldwin 1917, construction number 46964
2-6-2 1035, Baldwin 1901, construction number 19764 (rebuilt 1913)
I have heard this story in detail but don't recall the source. As I recall, there may have been more than two locos involved. They were positioned in a failed attempt to stabilize and hold down the track during the flood. They may have been on a bridge that gave way. I don't know Kansas geography. Is the Kaw the same as the Kansas River? Anybody wanna go swimming in the Kaw?
Tom
I am glad to see that there is at least a basic effort being made to preserve the two locomotives.
I'm also curious to know why the boiler fronts were removed. Was that part of the asbestos removal?
I have a pair of stories actually, I heard them at Toppenish Wa.'s NP museum when me and gramp visited. One was about the GS series locos the NP received, Nobody knows what happened to them or where they went after they were received.
Another involves Hanford, the Nuclear site in Eastern Washington.
Sometime during the 50's when the NP was servicing Hanford to of their locos became irradiated. the NP and Govt not wanting any residual effects buried them somewhere out there in the desert. When gramps worked for the DOT he was out by Hanford paving, needless to say he had an escort the whole time simply because of the way things were during the cold war.
SP&S modeler, 1960's give or take a decade or two for some equipment.
http://www.youtube.com/user/SGTDUPREY?feature=guide
Gary DuPrey
N scale model railroader
Dave:
The smoke box covers were on when I visited back in the 80s but the stack from one loco was gone. I was told that even though it took a two day journey by canoe to get there, snowmobilers making the trek over land and frozen lakes in the winter have been taking "souvenirs". (Asbestos would be on the outside of the boiler underneath the sheet metal lagging that wraps around the boiler.) At one time a friend from the Dunkirk, New York Historical Society had a plan to bring the LS&MS 2-8-0 back to Dunkirk to where it was built by Brooks Loco Works but the state of Maine said No. Thus both locos have been rusting away and have been pilfered where they were parked when the logging operation quit.
The boilers were blown down and parked in the engine house but the Park Service torched all the buildings one winter including the engine house many years later when the park was initiated because of a fire hazard. Many skeletons of log dump cars sit around where the locos sit in the woods. As far as I know, the rail is still in place for the 13 mile RR.
It was a wonderful experience to visit this location when I did the magazine article research. Though the LS&MS/NYC 2-8-0 had been postively identified, there seems to still be controversy over the identify of the 4-6-0. The late Bill Edson, who had access to federal boiler records and visited the two locos in the 1960s when the ten-wheeler had traces of lettring from the Grasse River RR told me that it was built for a predecessor of the IHB. Bill was an authority on steam locos and wrote a number of RR books with rosters.
But there are still some that cling to the idea that the 2-8-0 is a Rutland engine. Back then Bill had a good laugh over that. His remark to me was, "Are they still insisiting on that?" I photographed the boiler number (not builder No.) on the steam dome of the 2-8-0 and it matched up with the federal boiler records that Bill had.) The builder plates, headlights, etc., etc had been pilfered long before the engine house was burnt down and Bill had made it up there in the 60s. I hope that answers your questions.
hon30critter Ron: I am glad to see that there is at least a basic effort being made to preserve the two locomotives. I'm also curious to know why the boiler fronts were removed. Was that part of the asbestos removal? Dave
Why on earth would the State of Maine say 'no' to a locomotive restoration?