There is a Precision Scale NP Q-4 4-6-2 up for grabs on eBay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/HO-scale-N-P-4-6-2-Pacific-New-2008-/301313402809?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item4627ada7b9
And a steal at only $950.
Not to mention a Q-1: http://www.ebay.com/itm/BRASS-W-R-NP-4-6-2-CLASS-Q-1-STANDARD-2129-F-P-PASSENGER-GRAY-/161398626865?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item25941b9a31
Not cheap.
Andre
At least with the Precision model the seller offers an oportunity to "make an offer" and perhaps buy the model for a little less money.
The Q1 is a huge price - perhaps here the sale of this model will be a major contribution to "uncle dave's" retirement plan;)
Dusty
I just wish someone would make a non-brass model of the big pig palace.
Texas Zepher I just wish someone would make a non-brass model of the big pig palace.
SP&S modeler, 1960's give or take a decade or two for some equipment.
http://www.youtube.com/user/SGTDUPREY?feature=guide
Gary DuPrey
N scale model railroader
My part in this conversation was not triggered by my feeling there is a lack of equipment for the N.P., yet the jist of what has been talked about here is exactly peoples persception that that was what I was talking about.
I was simply wondering why the N.P. appears to be so low down on peoples lists of railroads they will model.
NP 2626 "Northern Pacific, really terrific"
Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association: http://www.nprha.org/
Perhaps the reason this conversation has drifted off into discussions about the availability of models of NP prototypes is because your expectations of a definitive answer to your original question is almost impossible to provide. Several contributors to this discussion have stated that - have you not read these posts?
Let me put a question for you to consider because your answer to my question will apply equally to the NP. So here is my question: why is the Richmond, Fredricksburg & Potomac not high on peoples lists to model? If you can answer that then you have answered your own question relating to the NP.
NP2626 I was simply wondering why the N.P. appears to be so low down on peoples lists of railroads they will model.
I can only guess, but it probably has to do with the percentage of people who were truly exposed to the N.P. enough to want to model it being fairly low on the national scale. As someone else commented, in the 1950's and 1960's (last 20 years of the RR's independant existance), there were far more railroads in the U.S. so N.P. was one of many RR's. Add to that it's been 45 years since N.P. ceased to exist, so fewer of those still alive who experienced it first hand, and add to that the population it served was relatively few in the scheme of the whole country. Does that make sense?
I mean, sometimes I wonder why more people don't model the standard gauge D&RGW? Whats not to like? Spectacular scenery, bridge traffic including coal, intermodal, mixed freights, passenger trains etc. But I have to understand everyone usually needs a connection with the RR they prefer.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
Dusty Solo Perhaps the reason this conversation has drifted off into discussions about the availability of models of NP prototypes is because your expectations of a definitive answer to your original question is almost impossible to provide. Several contributors to this discussion have stated that - have you not read these posts? Let me put a question for you to consider because your answer to my question will apply equally to the NP. So here is my question: why is the Richmond, Fredricksburg & Potomac not high on peoples lists to model? If you can answer that then you have answered your own question relating to the NP. Dusty
RG5761 has a point though, I missed all four of the original BN roads by about 24 years but here I am modeling primarily the SP&S. To be fair though in my SP&S books GN units are ore common than NP ones(because of the Oregon trunk), I found this the other day while trying to get info on GN's train "The Western Star" so I can start putting a proper representation of SP&S trains 1 & 2 together.
http://www.gngoat.org/gn-np.htm
The GN and NP did have a bitter rivalry, the SP&S was often a source of contention between the two because of the Oregon trunk(SP&S locos were stored serviceable while GN units were used, eventually the NP had this turned around) and the Scribner Turn(NP units were used with SP&S units Stored serviceable, during the 60'sthe NP was short on locos and the GN had the Scribner turn run with SP&S engines).
Plus the NP main through Southwestern Wa. had GN power on it all the time, Modelers are an odd bunch we know what we like regardless of geographical location(trust me I'm friends with an SP&S modeler from Australia, another from Virginia as well.)
I have read and understood every response that has been given in this thread. The fact is my questions on why the N.P. is not very popular to model have been for the most part answered, answered enough that I really don't care if there are any better answers out there. It is what it is.
I'm happy I modeled the N.P., the line is imporatnt to me, having grown up in it's back yard.
As to your question, I really don't care much about the RF&P. Probably the fact that I don't care about it, might be an answer for you.
NP2626 I'm happy I modeled the N.P., the line is important to me, having grown up in it's back yard.
I'm happy I modeled the N.P., the line is important to me, having grown up in it's back yard.
Rich
Alton Junction
So really you knew the answer to your question all long when you originally asked it which makes its purpose somewhat pointless or at least unnessesery. So why then continue to belabor your dissatisfaction with the comments you have received to a question that was flawed in the first place.
Perhaps now you will be satisfied that you have answered your own question for yourself when you put succinctly that few people actually care that much, or at least not care enough, in the same way you do to model the NP.
But at least you have given those of us who did take the trouble to respond honestly & in good faith to your question the opportunity to help you out even though, as it appears now, that the answer was already known to you.
Dusty Solo So really you knew the answer to your question all long when you originally asked it which makes its purpose somewhat pointless or at least unnessesery. So why then continue to belabor your dissatisfaction with the comments you have received to a question that was flawed in the first place. Perhaps now you will be satisfied that you have answered your own question for yourself when you put succinctly that few people actually care that much, or at least not care enough, in the same way you do to model the NP. But at least you have given those of us who did take the trouble to respond honestly & in good faith to your question the opportunity to help you out even though, as it appears now, that the answer was already known to you. Dusty
Always on the attack. are we? Did I do something that you felt belittled you?
My questions were not asked under any types of false pretenses. You sir, would need to know far more about me than your capable of knowing to make the ascertions you have made.
NP2626 ...
I would like to thank you for starting the thread. It was a good thought starter and there were some interesting comments. Your orginal question had some thoughtful replies. It also inspired other good conversations.
Also, in my case, the thread inpsired me to work on some of my Northern Pacific models, and I worked on them in the past few days.
GARRY
HEARTLAND DIVISION, CB&Q RR
EVERYWHERE LOST; WE HUSTLE OUR CABOOSE FOR YOU
Heartland Division CB&Q NP2626 ... I would like to thank you for starting the thread. It was a good thought starter and there were some interesting comments. Your orginal question had some thoughtful replies. It also inspired other good conversations. Also, in my case, the thread inpsired me to work on some of my Northern Pacific models, and I worked on them in the past few days.
I would like to thank everyone who contributed their thoughts on my original question. Certainly, it is within the rights of anyone posting here to ask about the availability of any equipment; or comisserate on the lack of equipment for their chosen line(s). I was just commenting that this was not my original intent for the thread. I feel there is (has been)enough equipment available for Northern Pacific modelers, if they are willing to wait.
Again, Thanks!
Well after reading through this thread, I started to become interested. I found out that the NPR dipped its toes into Canada in a couple of places like Winnipeg, which happens to be my home town and I had family that worked for the Railroads in and around that city all through the steam era and beyond. I now have to pull out Grandpas photo albums and see if there are any NP photo's in the mix. While he worked for CN, he took photo's of many different RR's rolling stock and steam engines that passed through.
I now live on the West Coast where NP also had a toe hold into Canada and where my layout is suppose to be more or less. So I think anything NP will now catch my eye at a trainshow or shop.
I also found NP photo's on some of the Government online archives.
It's always good to learn something new.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
Always on the attack. are we? Did I do something that you felt belittled you? My questions were not asked under any types of false pretenses. You sir, would need to know far more about me than your capable of knowing to make the ascertions you have made.
I don't feel belittled nor do I feel that what I wrote was an attack.
I made observations resulting from what I read in your posts. I found these perplexing and difficult to follow what looked to me like self contradictionery statements.I really don't need to know you or to have your personal aqaintence to be able to form an opinion from what you have written.
How & what people write here can often speak volumes about them. An example: from how I write it is easy to tell that I can be a pompous s.o.b. Not with standing that, I don't offen attack people who are othersise pretty hamless or at least have done me no harm.
In any event, i did enjoy reading the responses to your original post & learned much from them.
Dusty.
BATMAN Well after reading through this thread, I started to become interested. I found out that the NPR dipped its toes into Canada in a couple of places like Winnipeg, which happens to be my home town and I had family that worked for the Railroads in and around that city all through the steam era and beyond. I now have to pull out Grandpas photo albums and see if there are any NP photo's in the mix. While he worked for CN, he took photo's of many different RR's rolling stock and steam engines that passed through. I now live on the West Coast where NP also had a toe hold into Canada and where my layout is suppose to be more or less. So I think anything NP will now catch my eye at a trainshow or shop. I also found NP photo's on some of the Government online archives. It's always good to learn something new.
Dusty Solo Always on the attack. are we? Did I do something that you felt belittled you? My questions were not asked under any types of false pretenses. You sir, would need to know far more about me than your capable of knowing to make the ascertions you have made. I don't feel belittled nor do I feel that what I wrote was an attack. I made observations resulting from what I read in your posts. I found these perplexing and difficult to follow what looked to me like self contradictionery statements.I really don't need to know you or to have your personal aqaintence to be able to form an opinion from what you have written. How & what people write here can often speak volumes about them. An example: from how I write it is easy to tell that I can be a pompous s.o.b. Not with standing that, I don't offen attack people who are othersise pretty hamless or at least have done me no harm. In any event, i did enjoy reading the responses to your original post & learned much from them. Dusty.
My only motive in posting this thread was the hope of starting friendly discourse on the subject. While you don't feel your posts where a personal attack on my good name, I feel exactly quite the opposite! This statement by you: "from how I write it is easy to tell that I can be a pompous s.o.b."(In your own words) explains this situation extremely well! If you don't like what I have to say; or, what I say, can I suggest that you don't read my threads; or, posts! There is no need for ill tempered and unfriendly comment here on Model Railroader's Forums!
NP2626I was simply wondering why the N.P. appears to be so low down on peoples lists of railroads they will model.
The researching bit is the fun part to me, Always learning something about the hill lines. I plan on picking up the NP and GN through pass. service books, see if I can gather more tidbits.
I'm deep in NP country so it's only fair that I moodel it alongside the SP&S, my favorite locos from the NP were the F units, their Northerns and challengers were also very nice. the SP&S ones matched(except for the fact that SP&S locos burned oil instead of coal.)
the schemes were fantastic, also the SP&S hourglass scheme was close to NP's Pine tree scheme. Plus this caboose helped me further along my fascination with N scale.
I think one of the main reasons for NP´s unpopularity is it´s unspectacular history and it´s conservatism. There is simply not much spectacular to tell about the NP. I think the most famous facts about the NP are that it was the 4th transcontinental US railroad (after UP/CP, SF & SP), the first railroad in the Northwest, that the NCL operated over it´s whole lifespan without any major accident and last but not least the big backed potato. Well, the scenery traversed by the NP was surely spectacular but so was too on the MILW, GN and other western roads. So there was nothing to stand out. Also the area (Northwest) belongs to the most sparsely populated areas of the US, so that could be a reason too, but it doesn´t really count since GN´s and MILW´s areas were the same but these roads are much more popular than the NP. When you look at the variety of steam engines, it´s not hard to tell why the NP is not so popular despite the fact that it had the first Northern types: no Mountains, Berkshires, Santa Fes and Hudsons. It went straight from Mikados and Pacifics to Northerns, and in addition to that none of their steamers had some distinctive look where one could easily say "this is a typical NP feature". Also when it comes to passenger service, NP simply never had those special names and stories to tell. Olympian (Hiawatha) and Empire Builder simply sound more spectacular/interesting than NCL, and one must not forget that NP by far didn´t put so much effort into advertising the streamlining of the NCL and the NCL in general than the GN and MILW for example. It also never had streamlined steamers or any steamers that were famous for something. The only thing I know is that their Yellowstones used to be the worlds biggest steamers for a short time after they showed up in 1928. Nevertheless I like the NP very much although I don´t consider myself a NP fan. Simply because of superficial reasons: I love the looks of their steamers (the A3 and Z6 are my absolute favorites) and for me the 1954 Raymond Loewy Two Tone Green scheme for the NCL is by far the most beautiful paint scheme of ANY passenger train in the world! I like many trains from all over the world and there are many beautiful paint schemes all over, but the 1954 NCL scheme beats it all. And the NCL 1948 Pine Tree scheme comes very close at number 2. For me the 1954 and 1948 scheme of the NCL are by far the most beautiful schemes ever (with a slightly bigger preference for the 1954 scheme) followed by the MILW 1952 Hiawatha scheme on a far away number 3 position. Maybe because green (in all it´s variations is my favorite color). And the NP´s Challengers are the most beautiful Challengers of all in my eyes. My favorite roads are SP, SF and T&P. Mainly also because of superficial reasons but also because I´m somehow connected to the Southwest because of many southwestern based Western movies I saw in my life because I simply like them. And even if a NP train wouldn´t absolutely fit into my layout theme among the SP, SF and T&P, I´m very sure I could not resist a 1948 or 1954 NCL in plastic if some manufacturer will produce it. Maybe I would even by a Z6 for freight service once an affordable and good model is available.
De Luxe I think one of the main reasons for NP´s unpopularity is it´s unspectacular history and it´s conservatism. There is simply not much spectacular to tell about the NP. I think the most famous facts about the NP are that it was the 4th transcontinental US railroad (after UP/CP, SF & SP), the first railroad in the Northwest, that the NCL operated over it´s whole lifespan without any major accident and last but not least the big backed potato. Well, the scenery traversed by the NP was surely spectacular but so was too on the MILW, GN and other western roads. So there was nothing to stand out. Also the area (Northwest) belongs to the most sparsely populated areas of the US, so that could be a reason too, but it doesn´t really count since GN´s and MILW´s areas were the same but these roads are much more popular than the NP. When you look at the variety of steam engines, it´s not hard to tell why the NP is not so popular despite the fact that it had the first Northern types: no Mountains, Berkshires, Santa Fes and Hudsons. It went straight from Mikados and Pacifics to Northerns, and in addition to that none of their steamers had some distinctive look where one could easily say "this is a typical NP feature". Also when it comes to passenger service, NP simply never had those special names and stories to tell. Olympian (Hiawatha) and Empire Builder simply sound more spectacular/interesting than NCL, and one must not forget that NP by far didn´t put so much effort into advertising the streamlining of the NCL and the NCL in general than the GN and MILW for example. It also never had streamlined steamers or any steamers that were famous for something. The only thing I know is that their Yellowstones used to be the worlds biggest steamers for a short time after they showed up in 1928. Nevertheless I like the NP very much although I don´t consider myself a NP fan. Simply because of superficial reasons: I love the looks of their steamers (the A3 and Z6 are my absolute favorites) and for me the 1954 Raymond Loewy Two Tone Green scheme for the NCL is by far the most beautiful paint scheme of ANY passenger train in the world! I like many trains from all over the world and there are many beautiful paint schemes all over, but the 1954 NCL scheme beats it all. And the NCL 1948 Pine Tree scheme comes very close at number 2. For me the 1954 and 1948 scheme of the NCL are by far the most beautiful schemes ever (with a slightly bigger preference for the 1954 scheme) followed by the MILW 1952 Hiawatha scheme on a far away number 3 position. Maybe because green (in all it´s variations is my favorite color). And the NP´s Challengers are the most beautiful Challengers of all in my eyes. My favorite roads are SP, SF and T&P. Mainly also because of superficial reasons but also because I´m somehow connected to the Southwest because of many southwestern based Western movies I saw in my life because I simply like them. And even if a NP train wouldn´t absolutely fit into my layout theme among the SP, SF and T&P, I´m very sure I could not resist a 1948 or 1954 NCL in plastic if some manufacturer will produce it. Maybe I would even by a Z6 for freight service once an affordable and good model is available.
Everyone is intitled to their opinions.
Interesting response to De Lux as your question posed to the forum would require "opinion".
I guess you just want to hear from everyone that likes the NP?
I'm constantly amazed at your approach to this forum, but hey, that's just my opinion.
"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination."-Albert Einstein
http://gearedsteam.blogspot.com/
Burlington Northern #24The researching bit is the fun part to me, Always learning something about the hill lines. I plan on picking up the NP and GN through pass. service books, see if I can gather more tidbits. I'm deep in NP country ...
I'm deep in NP country ...
duplicate apparently can't delete.
Texas Zepher Burlington Northern #24 The researching bit is the fun part to me, Always learning something about the hill lines. I plan on picking up the NP and GN through pass. service books, see if I can gather more tidbits. I'm deep in NP country ... Yes, If that is in response to my earlier reply, I didn't say I didn't like research. I have an emense library that I would love to live in. It is just way-different to research something one cannot relate to such that everything is just book knowledge, than it is where the research is applicable to places and things one has first hand knowledge of.
Burlington Northern #24 The researching bit is the fun part to me, Always learning something about the hill lines. I plan on picking up the NP and GN through pass. service books, see if I can gather more tidbits. I'm deep in NP country ...
Yes, If that is in response to my earlier reply, I didn't say I didn't like research. I have an emense library that I would love to live in. It is just way-different to research something one cannot relate to such that everything is just book knowledge, than it is where the research is applicable to places and things one has first hand knowledge of.
Yep, I'm in, Gary. Once there I won't be retrning back to current time. If I see Michael J. Fox, I'll let him know you said, hi;)
Burlington Northern #24 I guess book knowledge, youtube vids, and webpages are about where my knowledge ends.
Nothing wrong with that Gary. It all helps to keep the memories "alive".
Cheers, the Bear.
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
Burlington Northern #24I need a time machine lol. who's in?
Post removed.