It took me a while to work up the nerve to weather my rolling stock and locomotives. I started doing India Ink washes and Dulcote on my structures, then moved to chalks. It's definitly a "Crawl before you walk" type of thing. One thing I find makes weathering more realistic is to vary how heavily weathered your frieght cars are. When I;m out railfaning, I try to take note of wht the prototype cars look like. Some cars on the train look like the've been to you know where and back while others are only slightly dirty.
Modeling the Pennsylvania Railroad in N Scale.
www.prr-nscale.blogspot.com
Whether to weather? A kinda Philosophy Friday Question.
This is a no brainer. There is no question of whether to weather. It's more a question of degree. ALL models look best with at least a little bit to tone them down, after that it's a matter of what looks appropriate. There really shouldn't be any but an occasional model that looks new.
dehusman The problem is that most beginners OVER weather things. All it takes are some very subtle washes to knock the shine off and tone down the model to make it look used. a lot of people go for the heavy weather right from the get go, and that is a skill that has to be learned and practiced. Try with some very light washes or a little weathering powder or a LIGHT overspray with an airbrush, maybe just a tad of dry brushing. a little goes a long way. A consistent weathering makes everything blend together. My answer to the original question is yes, weather, a yard full of bright shiny cars doesn't look real, it makes everything look toy like.
The problem is that most beginners OVER weather things. All it takes are some very subtle washes to knock the shine off and tone down the model to make it look used. a lot of people go for the heavy weather right from the get go, and that is a skill that has to be learned and practiced. Try with some very light washes or a little weathering powder or a LIGHT overspray with an airbrush, maybe just a tad of dry brushing. a little goes a long way. A consistent weathering makes everything blend together.
My answer to the original question is yes, weather, a yard full of bright shiny cars doesn't look real, it makes everything look toy like.
+++1000
I have very few weathered cars and as I've been putting them on my layout, they do look too shiny. I agree, most over weather their cars and often when people come in to forums to show them off and I just keep quiet because more than half of models shown on many forums actually have discourage me from trying myself because I don't want my models to come out like them. That said, I see a lot of models show also that look great.
I haven't had a work bench to work on mine yet, but when I see the results of many modelers, it makes me hold off cause I don't want my models to look like those. I will be practising on a few of my older models before tackling Genesis and Intermountain models.
Definitely light weathering is needed to tone those new ones down at minimum.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
Rich,
It's not so much as that they look "toy like", but rather that weathering makes them look much more realistic and attention getting. Go to a train show where HO layouts and models are displayed and it's a sure chance that the models with even light weathering are going to receive more stares and compliments. Realism in miniature attracts attentnion. Our minds can't help it.
I showed the photo below on a projector to a group of people and I was stunned that everyone thought that this was actually a full sized passenger rail car! (in spite of the Kadee coupler at the end and the missing handrails!). This isn't anywhere near Doc Wayne's high quality level of weathering. Imho, without the subtle weathering on the underframe this unit would not have fooled my audience.
Even "pristine" prototype cars (freight & passenger) that are new or restored exhibit light weathering after being exposed to the elements for a short time.
Look at this beautifully restored passenger car. Very well taken care of and washed....yet look at that underbody:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/fan-t/12544673284/in/pool-626963@N25|fan-t
For those "worried" about ruining an expensive model, again if you weather the underbody with acrylics.....it's hard to "ruin it". You can easily remove the washes with water in a spray bottle and a soft bristle tooth brush.
But as stated, to each his/her own.
richhotrain Unweathered cars look toy like? Nonsense. Rich
Unweathered cars look toy like?
Nonsense.
Rich
"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"
AntonioFP45 Rich, It's not so much as that they look "toy like", but rather that weathering makes them look much more realistic and attention getting.
It's not so much as that they look "toy like", but rather that weathering makes them look much more realistic and attention getting.
I guess.
I have the advantage of being a lone wolf operator, so no one sees my unweathered rolling stock but me.
Alton Junction
One thing to keep in mind when weathering is scale. Now here simple math works great, if you veiw your models at 3', look at the real thing from 261 feet. What you will find is that on fairly new stuff the weather stuff on the real car will fade away yet on the older stuff you will get some that is still visable. Now if you veiw stuff from as little as 6" as on my layout we are only talking about 44'.
I am with Rich on this one, I never weather my cars, I guess I just like the look of a clean car (and being able to see my logos).
-Alex
My Layout Photos- http://s1293.photobucket.com/user/ajwarshal/library/
I'm also a fan of light weathering. You be the judge.
This was all done in a short time with Dull Coat in a rattle can an AIM powders.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Looks great, Mister B, tell us how you did it.
I have sat in on a couple of hands on clinics just to try it.
But I really don't like weathered structures or engines or rolling stock. So I don't do it. I also don't add litter to my scenery either.
I can appreciate a nicely weathered car or structure as a work of art, but a whole layout of derelict structures and trains is depressing. I can watch the news for that kind of realism.
Enjoy
Paul
GP-9_Man11786 It's definitly a "Crawl before you walk" type of thing.
Yes,I started with ink washes and weather type paints from Poly S.My next step is weathering powers from Bragdon Enterprises.
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One thing I find makes weathering more realistic is to vary how heavily weathered your frieght cars are.
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Like I mention earlier in this discussion weathering should reflect the era that is being model-trashy cars was uncommon in the 70/80s and most was covered with every day grime.The weathered cars we see today would look completely out of place in the 70/80s and into the early to mid 90s.
Research is the key to realistic weathering.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
LION puts in two cents of him.
LION models NYCT (post graffitti era) : All cars are run through the car wash nightly, none leave the yard with graffitti.
They have been running around in my tran room for years, and so they have several years accumulation of dust. Hey! Instant weathering. LION does not have to bother his tail with that stuff. Buildings from the 20s and 30s looked rather tough, but modern structures do not show much in the way of weathering. It is a matter of maintianing your buildings.
Anyway, LION likes what him has builded and runs and so that is that.
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
richhotrain begged: Looks great, Mister B, tell us how you did it.
Not hard at all. I first removed the shell from the engine and the sideframes from the trucks. Wash them off with a littlle soap and water, and wash your hands while you're at it. Dry thoroughly, mask headlights, number boards and window glazing with blue tape, and then give them a light hit of Dull Coat. This gives the model more "tooth" to hold the powders. I apply AIM weathering powders with an old brush I keep around for just that purpose, working over an old box to collect the powder that falls off. Go wash your hands again (you'll see why) and then apply more Dull Coat to seal the powders. You will probably notice that the powder's effect is less than before the spray.
I remember on one of our annual trips across the prairies in the car (maybe 40 years ago?) seeing for the first time these loooooong trains of brightly coloured Government owned grain hoppers off in the distance. The entire train(s) were so bright and shinny and clean and being multiple colours, they looked quite toy like. Being a source of great pride for the Governments transportation program they were kept bright and shinny for quite a few years IIRC.
Now jump ahead maybe 30 years and I travelled abroad to attend a train show. Actually it was a short drive from the house. It was further to travel along to the border crossing than it was to go to the show. The border guards snooze just along this road a few KMS away. The road on the left is in the U.S. and the one on the right is in Canada. I could have almost walked to the show.
Anyway, when I got to the show a club had this massive layout and were running these 150 car trains of all these bright and shinny Canadian grain hoppers on their version of the Canadian prairies, it looked so real!
So thinking about it the real one looked toy like, while the toy looked so real. So there is room for whatever you want to do without being judged.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
A long time ago, shortly after the, "Let's weather EVERYTHING," trend began, an article appeared in Model Railroader from an author who stated, bluntly, that the 'good old days' (1920-30, the commonly modeled era of the time) were bright and clean and shiny, with fresh or freshly washed paint on everything. Having grown up in places where dust and coal smoke were a big part of the environment, I attributed his opinion to faulty memory.
That said, my rolling stock, like Lion's, has naturally weathered over the years but has not been artificially modified. I presume that there will be some weathering projects in my future - but their place on my priority list is somewhere below that operating tunnel boring machine I've mentioned.
But then, I am trying to capture the flavor of a memory, not reproduce a prototype photograph.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
Batman, the Lynden show in late October?
Very good points. Yet, even these beautiful, shiny Canadian Grain cars have lightly weathered underframes. Note that the trucks and frames on the 2nd and 3rd photo links are not a deep or "jet" black.
http://condrenrails.com/JDI/Waukesha/DSC_0300.JPG
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_kawpWTOGqPk/S6Fo12k71FI/AAAAAAAAB20/kbWyjikv_Cw/s1600-h/blogcylgrn1.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_kawpWTOGqPk/S6FnRW-fJ6I/AAAAAAAAB1k/6QdUDAtMai4/s1600-h/blogcylgrn11.jpg
We shouldn't have to be concerned about being judged. The points that some here, myself included, have been conveying is that it's not necessary to "pile on" weathering and that very "light" weathering can still leave a model looking new or well maintained, yet with a greater depth of realism whether we use the 3ft or 5ft viewing rule.
High Greens
BATMAN I remember on one of our annual trips across the prairies in the car (maybe 40 years ago?) seeing for the first time these loooooong trains of brightly coloured Government owned grain hoppers off in the distance. The entire train(s) were so bright and shinny and clean and being multiple colours, they looked quite toy like. Being a source of great pride for the Governments transportation program the were kept bright and shinny for quite a few years IIRC. Anyway, when I got to the show a club had this massive layout and were running these 150 car trains of all these bright and shinny Canadian grain hoppers on their version of the Canadian prairies, it looked so real! So thinking about it the real one looked toy like, while the toy looked so real. So there is room for whatever you want to do without being judged.
I remember on one of our annual trips across the prairies in the car (maybe 40 years ago?) seeing for the first time these loooooong trains of brightly coloured Government owned grain hoppers off in the distance. The entire train(s) were so bright and shinny and clean and being multiple colours, they looked quite toy like. Being a source of great pride for the Governments transportation program the were kept bright and shinny for quite a few years IIRC.
AntonioFP45Very good points. Yet, even these beautiful, shiny Canadian Grain cars have lightly weathered underframes.
I agree, this is why I now look at my work through a photo rather than just relying on the naked eye. I see all that is missing or overdone in a studied photo. I think it is because it makes me focus on a smaller area.
Whether it's on weathering or something else opinions and advice should only be given when asked for. We all march to a different drummer. I liked what Chuck said about creating a memory, it often is what we are trying to do.
NorthWest Batman, the Lynden show in late October?
Yep! That's the one. It's the closest Trainshow to my house all year. Having to "go abroad" to get there is a bit of a pain but worth it as it is a great show.
One year the Border guard asked me if I had bought anything while I was away. I told him I bought a Corvette. That woke him up. He asked how much I paid for it. I said $3.50 American and it's still in the box, see! He rolled his eye's and wiggled his fingers for me to carry on.
Here it is. Although it does need a bit of weathering as it is parked at a small dusty prairie train station.
Brent!
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
MisterB:
That is excellent weathering IMHO. That is the sort of weathering that I will attempt to achieve on my locomotives.
BATMAN
I always thought that the guy to our right was the other guy's wife.
BATMANOne year the Border guard asked me if I had bought anything while I was away. I told him I bought a Corvette. That woke him up. He asked how much I paid for it. I said $3.50 American and it's still in the box, see! He rolled his eye's and wiggled his fingers for me to carry on.
ROFLOL!
Good'un!
Cheers, the Bear.
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
richhotrain BATMAN Wait a minute! I always thought that the guy to our right was the other guy's wife. Rich
Wait a minute!
Nope, you're wrong Rich. They both are married (to others) why do you think they spend so much time in the forums balcony?
I don't have a problem with weathered cars and I don't have a problem with shiny new cars. What I do have a problem with is folks demanding an exact color match to the prototype (which I understand varied sometimes also), perfect lettering, no bent handrails or other defects, etc. Then they say you have to weather the cars so they look prototype. My preference as others have stated is to have a variety of cars and locos from shiny new to heavily weathered which is what I see on the prototypes around where I live.
Growing up in a midwestern 4-season city, I never saw such weathered brick buildings as I have seen in various model railroad images. Some of these urban scenes remind me of Gotham City- dark, dreary, and grungy! Back home, rain washed the brick regularly, the mortar was long dry before any "leakage" could occur, and many building owners of older structures were "encouraged" by preservationists and local ordinances to clean their buildings, if for no other reason than to preserve them physically against further decay (brick lasts- but not forever). My family owns a national historical registered commercial building (back home) that was built in 1905 and has been cleaned twice in the past 30 years- looks like the day it was built!
Where a heavy industrial presence exists (existed), sure, there were more dirty buildings than would otherwise be the case, but long after those processes were no longer in operation, the cleaning of the building was virtually essential to re-marketing and re-purposing it. Heck- even in the Depression 1930s, they used whitewash on houses and fences- my dad and his brothers used to earn money doing that!
As for cars- on my railroad, they are clean because I do not want all the effort I put into repainting and re-decaling them to go for naught. My railroad likes to keep things clean- it promotes the image of a well-run railroad and the HO scale shippers like that!
As I move into operations this fall, I may weather trucks and wheels appropriately, because shiny acetal plastic and those which are merely painted flat black hide the detail of those trucks and wheels. But my carsides and structures are clean!
Cedarwoodron
Swedish Custom painter and model maker. My Website:
My Railroad
My Youtube:
Graff´s channel
GraffenThey made the ship in CGI, and when test screening the scene where it departs on the maiden voyage (where it by all means must have looked rather pristine), the audience said it looked fake!
Today folks just don't understand how pristine passenger ship companies kept their ships.The prissy high society first and second class passengers demanded such conditions.
I seen modelers weather their steam era cars like the cars you see today..That's dead wrong. Weathering cars from the 60s-90s like we see today is wrong as well..
Research isn't all that hard yet,there are those that weather their cars wrong for the era they model..
I've seen some towns/cities on layouts that favored the town of "Sweethaven" from the movie "Popeye".
BRAKIE Graffen They made the ship in CGI, and when test screening the scene where it departs on the maiden voyage (where it by all means must have looked rather pristine), the audience said it looked fake! Today folks just don't understand how pristine passenger ship companies kept their ships.The prissy high society first and second class passengers demanded such conditions. I seen modelers weather their steam era cars like the cars you see today..That's dead wrong. Weathering cars from the 60s-90s like we see today is wrong as well.. Research isn't all that hard yet,there are those that weather their cars wrong for the era they model.. I've seen some towns/cities on layouts that favored the town of "Sweethaven" from the movie "Popeye".
Graffen They made the ship in CGI, and when test screening the scene where it departs on the maiden voyage (where it by all means must have looked rather pristine), the audience said it looked fake!
Having just come back from a cruise last week, let can appreciate how clean a passenger ship should be inside and out. It was the same way with passenger trains back in th day. I don't recall Amtrak being that super clean though.
As to weathering I think light weathering to tone down that bright shiny new look is fine but I'm not into heavy weathering.
Joe Staten Island West