Whether to weather? A kinda Philosophy Friday Question.

["JaBear"]

As I mentioned in WPF I’ve been a hypocrite regarding weathering.  When  I get the opportunity I enjoy watching  most model railroading videos,  layouts and scenery that I’d give my eye teeth for but watching pristine trains, that look like they’ve only been handled with kid gloves, running on these layouts kinda grates me.

However, until a fortnight ago the thought of ruining my hard earned acquisitions by attempting to weather them   filled me with a degree of trepidation so I didn’t.  (Though with a fleet made up with mainly Athearn BB kits or similar, there certainly is an irony there.) So finally I’m experimenting with various weathering techniques, (need lots of practice), but am interested in your thoughts.

I know weathering is a very subjective subject, so there is no "right" answer and therefore no prizes or second place, just as so long as we’re having Fun no matter what our level of participation is in the hobby.

Cheers, the Bear.

[Burlington Northern #24]

There was an article in N scale magazine that shares the title of this thread, Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

[richhotrain]

Ja Bear, I don't weather nothin'.

Not my structures, not my trains.

Rich

[mlehman]

Weathering is one of thoese skills that is driven very much by one's personal tastes. Cruddy looking equipment bothers me on the prototype, for some weird reason, so I tend to not like weathering applied in a heavy-handed style. But the well-worn, but well-loved look has grown on me over the years.

Being in HOn3, I've been fortunate enough to acquire a number of Blackstone's realeases with factory weathering. I've also got a small stable of mostly Kadee rolling stock that's been weathered by various people, from ebay mostly. Mixing weathered cars in with the non-weathered works well. Not everything needs it for the overall effect to add to the layout.

I've experimented with weathering in various ways over the years with mostly indifferent results. I've recently started working in some basic weathering in structures I build. And I have a set of the Tamiya powders, which work pretty darn good in my clumsy mitts.

My advice is to start on items that you'll not be too distressed by how they turn out. You'll soon catch on and start surprising yourself as just how good it is.

[B&O1952]

If you want a model railroad yes, if you want to play with toy trains no.

[richhotrain]

B&O1952

If you. Want a model railroad yes, if you want to play with toy trains no.

 

Tsk, tsk.

I beg to differ.

You, sir, are an elitist.   

Rich

[BRAKIE]

Another overlooked thought..The weathering must match the era you model.

On my 78/80 era cars I just dirty the cars by using a black India ink wash with little rust and no two cars are alike..

Simple weathering with a black India ink wash is fun and very simple to learn.

[Heartland Division CB&Q]

Most of my freight cars have at least some weathering. I don't do all the same because some cars stayed away from the paint shop for years, and others were new or freshly painted. 

Not many of my locomotives are weathered. It is easier for me to "mess up" an inexpensive freight car than a more costly locomotive. 

Only a few of my passenger cars are weathered. 

[cambus267]

The great problem with weathering is that if you get it right ie it is subtle and realistic then it is great but get it wrong and it is awful. I have seen weathering that appears to have been applied with a 2" brush. To achieve a good standard of weathering you have to have (in my opion)  a good painters eye if you have not got that DON'T weather.

[Geared Steam]

Weathering is a must, lightly is preferred. It's easy if one uses the simple methods, washes and weathering powders. 

Nothing worse that shiny plastic to ruin the realism.

[B&O1952]

I agree that weathering is an art. It's a learning experience. When I first started using powders, I was tentative to overdo it. As I gained confidence with them, I found that there are a number of techniques you can do such as mixing the powder with Dullcote in a cup, and dry brushing them on locomotive drivers to give them a dusty look. The Dullcote makes the powder a little gritty, and tacky enough to stay put on the drivers. Also, if you have a boxcar with the brownish paint such as old athearn blue box cars, dust them with a little medium rust or faded Tuscan to brighten them up a little. Most of the cars get a spray of Dullcote before I weather with powders, then I work in some dust at the bottom, and since I run a lot of steam, the cars get some grimy black powder on the roof. All coupler knuckles get the light rust, and the coupler body gets a darker rust. With trucks, I use minimal amounts of rust because they are all friction bearing trucks and they receive a lot of grease, so inside the wheels it's strictly black. The outside of the truck frame gets dust. Since I'm modeling the 1950's, I weather my steam locos heavily, and my diesels lightly. With the steamers I start with grimy black on the boiler,, cab, tender, and pilot. The firebox gets a dark rust and maybe a little graphite by rubbing pencil lead into it. The tender deck gets a combination of different shades of rust since they usually had water laying on top. Drivers and trucks get the dust treatment, the underframe and under the boiler can get a little dust as well. Any place where steam and water might leak out get a little rust, and on the boiler where the generator, whistle or safety valve are located, I might work in a little light powder to look like the calcification you would see dripping down the boiler sometimes. diesels are easy since in the 1950's they were fairly new. I dust up the trucks, and rust the coupler and on the F units, I rust the pressure plate above the coupler. The top gets a dusting of grimy black, and that's about it. Just like Garry, the passenger cars get very little weathering. I like to believe, right or wrong, that the RR's still took a little pride in their passenger service. To me weathering is as important as scenery. 

-Stan

[hon30critter]

I'm in JaBear's situation:

I like well done weathering but it is something that I haven't done yet. Call me chicken! I hope I can get reasonably good at it because I'll have my entire fleet to do once I start.

Dave

[dehusman]

The problem is that most beginners OVER weather things.  All it takes are some very subtle washes to knock the shine off and tone down the model to make it look used.  a lot of people go for the heavy weather right from the get go, and that is a skill that has to be learned and practiced. Try with some very light washes or a little weathering powder or a LIGHT overspray with an airbrush, maybe just a tad of dry brushing.  a little goes a long way.  A consistent weathering makes everything blend together.

My answer to the original question is yes, weather, a yard full of bright shiny cars doesn't look real, it makes everything look toy like.

[Big Boy Forever]

I think weathering is overused. Some equipment needs weathered, like older boxcars, flat cars and the like, but despite the dogma about "getting rid of that plastic shine", I see prototype locomotives and tank cars with plenty of shine riding on the tracks of So. California.

Makes me long for the old Tyco train sets.

[doctorwayne]

hon30critter

I'm in JaBear's situation:

I like well done weathering but it is something that I haven't done yet. Call me chicken! I hope I can get reasonably good at it because I'll have my entire fleet to do once I start.

Dave

 

Just don't do the whole fleet in one session, or they're likely to come out looking like they were all built on the same day and saw service on the same section of the same railroad. 

I'm modelling the late '30s, but there are very few cars on my layout which are heavily weathered - not necessarily realistic or non-realistic, but simply my personal preference.  Even cars which represent almost new ones get some weathering, though.

While I don't see much point in using even cheap rolling stock to learn the art of airbrushing (a piece of cardboard will serve just as well for learning control and the nuances of the tool) but they may be a good place to start learning weathering techniques.  After you've overdone a few, you'll discover that less is more - and if "even more" is your preference, you'll have learned enough control to know when to stop.

Wayne

[rrebell]

I do weather some buildings and find is is a matter of layers. I was doing a footing to a trestle once and was having a hard time getting it to look like aged concrete, threw a bunch of paint at it and gradually picked out and replacated the parts I like, turned out great in the end.

[hon30critter]

Hi Wayne:

Yes, I figured that I would start with just a couple of each of the freight cars of various colours to experiment with various techniques. Most of my fleet is red oxide or freight car red (brown?) as well as the obligatory black coal cars and gondolas, but I have some tankers in silver and green and I just picked up some Toronto Hamilton and Buffalo 40' freight cars in their yellow side/black end livery.

Logically the heaviest weathering will be applied to older rolling stock like the CP outside braced freight cars but I don't plan to start there. Simpler things first.

I will have to inhale deeply before weathering my beautiful CP FP7s but given my era the weathering will be pretty subtle.

Dave

[AntonioFP45]

Good responses guys,

Years back I was hesitant to try weathering. Once I got into it, I was amazed at how easy it is.

I've used various techniques, including airbrushing, and they all work. However, to modelers that are beginners at weathering and are hesitant; I always respectfully suggest to take the safe routes:

1. Weathering chalks.  If overdone or if the results are unsatisfactory, the chalk powder is easily removed.

2. Weathering washes with acrylic paint.  Again, a safe route because if you overdo it, you can wash it off.

Another suggestion for beginners: 

Start with weathering the underframes, trucks, and couplers only.  I've noticed over the years that some beginners tend to go overboard on the bodies.  Metaphorically, that's like emptying a bottle of Olive Oil on a delicious pasta meal at a nice restaurant. Too much spoils a good thing. Keep it subtle.  Don't try to go for a 1974 Penn Central rustbucket when starting out. That can be a short route to frustration. (I've made that mistake before).

Practice on your freight and passenger cars' underframes and get those basics down first. Cool factor is that underframes and trucks are difficult to foul up with washes. Don't think too much about it. Just relax and do it. Practice on a scrap car or two.  On this old run Walthers car that I metalized a few years ago, I applied light washes of Engine Black and Primer Gray to the trucks and underframe.  Using a pill tray I poured about 1/2 oz of each color and thinned each one 100% with distilled water. Hence the term "Wash".   Using a #2 brush, I applied each color on the trucks, tanks, and couplers using vertical strokes (keeping in mind that gravity pulls everything down). I alternated back and forth with each color. Took me two to three minutes.  The process was relaxing and enjoyable. This should never be stressful or apprehensive.

Now the trucks and underframe are no longer "jet black", look more realistic and actually make the car stand out more. Wheel faces can be done while they're on the trucks but you'll get better results with the axles removed.

Left, stock passenger car truck. Right, passenger car truck with light weathering wash. 

 

In this more recent photo, forget the metalizer. Just look at the underframes and at the truck. Again simple washes. 

As mentioned, geographic regions affect the weathering that we see on railroad vehicles.  Keep it simple, look at the tones and hues of underframe weathering on prototype photos, then obtain acrylic paints that come reasonably close. Doesn't have to be exact as you can darken, lighten, or neutralize hues and tones easily. For my more recent projects these are the colors that  I've been using for "washing" the underframes (based on prototype photos). 

Summarizing: to those of you that don't want to try weathering.......guys you're missing out. Nothing ventured results in nothing gained.  Chances are likely that everyone has a piece of rolling stock or a locomotive that is a junker shelf queen.  Put it to use. Go for it!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Catt]

My way of weathering is do it like the prototype.By that I mean dirty it up like the real thing gets dirty .A little dust on the trucks rust up the wheels,maybe some rail splatter on the ends and call it good.Then gradually add more to some cars and locos but leave some just a little dusty.

If your gonna beat them half to death definately find a proto car and weather your model to match .

 

[hon30critter]

AntonioFP45 and Catt:

Thanks for the suggestions!

Dave

[DGX GP 38]

Bear,

Good topic for a discussion.
Weathering is one of the attractive aspects that drew me into the model railroading. I was amazed at how well rust and grime could be represented on a model.
Like you, I was apprehensive of learning how to weather on perfectly good rolling stock. Finally just had to jump in and learn hands on with some cars that I could stomach putting in peril of a paint brush. After making some ugly, garish looking cars, things began to make sense. I found that I liked the results of using an airbrush vs powders as my primary weathering tool. I still use powders, but mostly for accents, and blending colors, streaks etc...

I am still learning different techniques and in no way consider myself a pro, but am happy with the progress of the end product. Painting and detailing is very relaxing and I think it enhances the overall visual effect of our models.

One observation I will share is that weathering that is subtle and suggestive rather than heavy or over done is much more convincing. I see a lot of models at shows and online that are so slathered up with rust and such, that they simply look like a model with a bunch of paint on them.
That being said, I have rolling stock that would fit in that category. I hope to learn how to better mimic rust spots and not have the whole thing turn into a mess.

My other hobby is tying trout flies. Of all the patterns I produce, the ones that are more suggestive of a particular insect etc...are often just as if not more effective than patterns that are exact replicas of a bug. When we try to offer an exacting imitation of nature, something gets lost in translation , ultimately looking like a fake.

[Bayfield Transfer Railway]

Go to a train show and buy a dozen or so of the junk cars that are always around for a buck.

Then pratice on them.

 

[selector]

It's a personal philosophy, but I have an interest to try, or to expose myself to, just about anything in the hobby that others find interesting, fun, or simply worth doing for its own sake.  I have many miles to go on that journey, but I have already built my own turnouts, made spline roadbed, built a helix, and made a substantial double main. 

Like most of us, the thought of mucking up my nice shiney rolling stock gave me pause.  It seemed to be a form of abuse.  Eventually, I just took up my little P2K 0-6-0 and began to rub chalk on it and spray it with Dullcoat.  I overdid the rusty parts, but that was easily covered later when I gave myself time to appreciate what it takes to do a decent job...which I had yet to accomplish.

I eventually went with light acrylic paint washes.  I dunno....I like some of what I have done.  I can't say I don't like the look or agree with the idea of making models look more realistic with some judicious weathering.  It gives my stuff a more lived-in look about it.

[Southgate]

About 8 years ago, I airbrushed a light weathering on all the freightcrs I had at the time, and varied the ammount and tones. Some tank cars got further work replicating spills. My fleet has since doubled. The weathered cars just look better. I'll eventually catch up with the rest. I'll probably add powders to the technique for even better effect.

Painting the trucks and wheels rusty makes a huge difference. "Rusting up" the couplers, even lightly, messed with performance. Those Kadees need shiny faces, so I just leave them alone alltogether.

[BRAKIE]

dehusman

The problem is that most beginners OVER weather things.

As does some experience modelers that should know better.

A study of railroad photos from a given modeling era should reveal the type of weathering one should emulate on their cars,locomotives and structures..

One should keep in mind that a customer can refuse a freight car that they deem unsafe so,think twice before denting up that gon to a point where its unrealistic..

 

 

[richhotrain]

Unweathered cars look toy like?

Nonsense.

Rich

[BRAKIE]

richhotrain

Unweathered cars look toy like?

Nonsense.

Rich

 

As a side note I will weather my Athearn BB,Accurail and Roundhouse cars but,won't even think about weathering my higher end cars.

Toy like?

I can live with that much better then ruining a high dollar car.

[richhotrain]

BRAKIE

 

 

richhotrain

Unweathered cars look toy like?

Nonsense.

Rich

 

 

 

 

As a side note I will weather my Athearn BB,Accurail and Roundhouse cars but,won't even think about weathering my higher end cars.

Toy like?

I can live with that much better then ruining a high dollar car.

 

Me too.

[galaxy]

Hmm, this one comes up frequently.

Each to his own.

I am a strange bird.

I will weather buildings and structures, but NOT RR equipment!

Does that even make sense?

Somehow, to me, the equipment should be as pristene as possible, but structures, especially the unpainted colored plastic ones, should be painted and weathered as they look funny and no real building is "plastic colored plastic"...even those with "plastic" vinyl siding! Those with vinyl siding don't look "plastic" in real life, not with some dust, dirt etc on them.

RR equipment, well it can be run through the washer frequently, and so should look "cleaned", like your car.

Each to his own, but I think the biggest reason people who DON'T weather is that everyone wants their "weathering" to "look right", and if it doesn't they may feel they have ruined a good thing, so they leave well enough alone.

Also we tend to think in terms of "value" for our RR  stuff, and "weathering can lose value". IF it was "so popular" and "made right", manufacturers would have been selling us pre-weatherd stuff long ago!

so whether or not you weather is up to you.

[steemtrayn]

One thing that bugs me about weathering cheap cars is how rust and dirt accumulate above the cast-on grabirons. Also, I have yet to see a weathered box car with a roof bulge caused by overzealous forklift operators. I see this on prototype cars all the time.