I admit that there is one thing that I find bizarre about some layouts and that is the lack of roads. For example, how can you have a gas station in between two tracks and NOT have some sort of road that would provide access to the gas station for vehicles?
Am I off base here?
Bear "It's all about having fun."
No, not off base - it is common to visit or see photo stories on layouts where one can wonder just how folks get to work including the station agent and tower operator., or why structures were constructed with no possible means of access.
On the other hand you also see wildly improbable roads with curves that would need 5 mph or less -- and perhaps no road at all is better than one that is immediately seen as toylike. The fact is that realistic looking roads (which can be narrower than prototype and still look OK) take up space that most of us have used for something else.
Dave Nelson
How can I put this without being lamblasted?
Modelers tend to get sloppy in some scenery areas like roads their road is either doesn't exists, to toy like or not wide enough for two Ford model As to past safely yet they place 18 wheelers on these narrow roads that resemble a narrow dirt road going up a hollow in the Appalachians..
Folks,when in doubt throw it out and do some research.
IMHO nothing looks as foolish as a station backed up against a mountain with no visible road,horse,wagon or foot path.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Yes. You are way off base.
Rather, that is to say, this is a refuling station for UFOs stopping enroute to Mars from Venus.
If you do not have intergalatic services on your railroad you will be accused of alien discrimination and the Federal Government will, in conjunction with the Inter-Galatic Police banish you to an astiroid south of Mars.
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
I guess I am with brakie on this. As I am scenicing my layout, I am becoming an expert in building road crossings. Originally based on the plan there were going to be three. Nope, turns out there have to be six, plus a cattle crossing to get the cattle from the range to the loading pens. I admit that the cattle crossing probably is a bit on the hazey side since I doubt that you could get the cows to cross over a set of rr tracks. But, this was a case of having no choice.
Some modelers don't really care to even have roads on their layouts but rather prefer just to have tracks and basic scenery such as grass, bushes and trees with maybe telephone poles along the sides of the track. I actually knew a guy that had a layout like this without any buildings or structures. He called it his country layout... I on the other hand do have roads that are made of posterboard that's been spray painted primer gray, glued down to the layout with Elmer's wood glue and striped with stick on white striping down the main highway and also across the roads at stop signs. I had considered respraying them with gray spattering paint but it would be too much trouble and probably wouldn't look right so I'm just going to leave them as they are.
Tracklayer
BroadwayLion Yes. You are way off base. Rather, that is to say, this is a refuling station for UFOs stopping enroute to Mars from Venus. If you do not have intergalatic services on your railroad you will be accused of alien discrimination and the Federal Government will, in conjunction with the Inter-Galatic Police banish you to an astiroid south of Mars. ROAR
Actually, the refueling stations for starships are in the Fore Trojan asteroid node sixty degrees in advance of Jupiter. And any asteroid south of Mars will shortly be north of Mars - or imbedded in Mars...
Since the Milky Way Galaxy is under the jurisdiction of the Confederation of Galactic Civilizations the Inter-Galactic Police are not permitted to operate here. Rather like the situation with the New York State Police, who are barred from New York City.
Not intergalactic yet. The First Intergalactic Expedition [CSS Isaac Asimov (ex CSS Scharnhorst), CSS Robert A Heinlein (ex CSS Denver) and CPV Kurohime, under Commo (former SrCAdm) T. P. Carlsen] is scheduled to depart for the Andromeda Galaxy in the early 38th century. My detailed writing is now at 3626...
Brakie has it right. Do some research. For the present and recent past, jump into your personal transportation and drive around near the rails. The more distant past can be studied in photos.
In my case, I was all over the area I model, so I know what it was like - ONE concrete main road, some 'two ruts in the mud' type and a lot of goat trails. The main road is only hinted at (it's in the aisleway) but the others will, eventually, be well represented - including a scene with three ladies in blue pajamas with white polka-dots and conical bamboo hats trying to get a three-wheel truck out of one of the deeper mud puddles.
And now you know why the railroads in my era/area are still in the LCL business...
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - as I saw it)
I actually planned roads when I planned my layout's track. Even though it was 40 years ago, I still remember my previous layout and the problems I had because roads always seemed to want to cross the tracks at turnouts. That wasn't going to happen again.
I do use the aisle as part of my road network. I don't require all roads to connect. If they go into the aisle or into the wall, that's fine. I've got one place where I meant to join to roads, but ran out of space. So, I made up a story that Beaver Street used to run all the way through, but the beavers built a dam and turned a stream into a swamp, washing out the road.
My packing plant has no road access. That's one of the buildings I'm likely to relocate in my next layout, sometime in the future, but hopefully before 3626 AD....
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Another thing I see missing are businesses and factories with no parking for employees or customers. They can not all be automated or deliver by drone (except, perhaps, in Lion's imagination ROAR )
George In Midcoast Maine, 'bout halfway up the Rockland branch
" Rather like the situation with the New York State Police, who are barred from New York City."
As a retired Lt in the New York State Police, who was once offerred command of The Manhattan office, I can assure you that is not true.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
MisterBeasleyI do use the aisle as part of my road network. I don't require all roads to connect. If they go into the aisle or into the wall, that's fine. I've got one place where I meant to join to roads, but ran out of space.
Good tricks of the trade. I try to make it seem like a road goes somewhere, even if it sort of thins out quick behind some convenient trees or a building. But roads aren't the first priority for many of those looking to build a railroad in limited space. Still helps to suggest them as best you can.
I've also got the good fortune of modeling an area -- the Silverton Branch and the 3 Silverton "Mears roads" -- where the roads were either non-existent, as along the river in the Rio de las Animas canyon, or pretty minimal, as along the RRs as they climbed out of Silverton to the mines.
You can also model 19th century when roads were even narrower and sketchier except in urban areas.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
Not sure if this was what Mister Beasly meant when he wrote "I do use the aisle as part of my road network", but a fairly common trick is to model half (or less) of a road along the aisle, say some storefronts, a sidewalk, maybe a lane, and then the layout edge. It does give the impression that life goes on beyond the edge, indicates that a road network does exist, and doesn't look anywhere near as jarring to me as those half-a-building structures where the layout edge goes right thru the building, the other half being not modelled (like IIRC that paper/building supplies warehouse on a MR project layout last year).Also reasonably wide roads which narrow down to squeeze in between a building and track, usually because the track is curving in at that point, bug me more than it really should...(I had a scene like that on an old layout, and upon reflection it looked really awkward).
chutton01 and Mister Beasly wrote the following:
model half (or less) of a road along the aisle, say some storefronts, a sidewalk, maybe a lane, and then the layout edge. It does give the impression that life goes on beyond the edge-------------------------
I have a couple of places with half a road on my layout. In one place, there are stores, parking spaces and the depot; in the other the half road connects 2 adjoining businesses before it turns into the aisle. In another area, the access road to 2 industries go to the aisle, with the road assumed to be off the edge of the layout
I like to have alot of roads, concrete, blacktop, dirt ect
Tomkat-13:
Good looking roads!
I am a car nut so roads are an absolute neccessity. Besides, I have to have a place to put the dozen or so vehicles that I have installed LEDs in.
I also agree with Brakie and others who can't stand illogical, unsupported structure placements. As far as I am concerned scenes have to be believeable.
I would really love to install a Faller road system but the layout plan doesn't have any space to allow turn arounds.
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
G Painemodel half (or less) of a road along the aisle, say some storefronts, a sidewalk, maybe a lane, and then the layout edge. It does give the impression that life goes on beyond the edge-------------------------I have a couple of places with half a road on my layout. In one place, there are stores, parking spaces and the depot; in the other the half road connects 2 adjoining businesses before it turns into the aisle. In another area, the access road to 2 industries go to the aisle, with the road assumed to be off the edge of the layout
tomkat-13I like to have alot of roads, concrete, blacktop, dirt etc
Everything on a model railroad is a compromise. Even the largest ones do not have broad enough curves for example. Some compormises stand out more than others & people have their own tolerance levels. The best layouts could be picked apart, but it's just better to enjoy them.
This is the half road (mentioned above) on the edge of the layout in Greenvale Junction; CMW, Alloy Forms, Jordan, and other vehicles on display
Central St in Sheepscott is another edge road that continues to the backdrop
IN Greenvale, the Dragon Products employee parking lot is suggested by a few spaces and a road along the edge of the layout
The entrance road to Phil's Power Equipment (Under construction) is next to Dragon, and suggests a road or highway just off the edge.
The road by the South Greenvale curve (removed in a rebuild project) also suggects traffic flow from a couple of points off the layout into the industrial area
I'm going to add a rant:
[rant] I don't see this on the photos here, ever, but at train shows I see it a lot on display layouts. Some people insist on putting every vehicle they own on the roads, even though they are bumper-to-bumper and extend from end to end. There is little regard for era, and there are usually a few oversided Hot Wheels race cars mixed in to make it look even worse. [/rant]
Good rant, Mr. B.
First - we have to remember that it IS THEIR Layout/Module and THEY can do what they want!
With my layout doing a prototypical Layout and doing it in an area that is just down over the hill from me
I can run down and take pictures of the area to be sure what roads look like!
Using arial views off the internet gives a much better perspective as what it should look like from our typical viewpoint and how they were laid out!
Again those that wing a Model Railroad will tend to have a harder time leaving enough room for the road (if they even have the roads as was mentioned above) because they are not or can't see the real thing and remember that thery should include the road access!
BOB H - Clarion, PA
Bob,
I don't "wing" the layout, but I do wing the roads.... to a point. Mostly, my roads lead off of the layout.sometimes via an overpass that dead ends in thin air. However, I do include roads, but I fit them in as necessary..... and yes, I either have parking lots or, in some cases, a sidewalk TO an off-layout parking area. Fitting the roads in at the end helps me to make sure all the buildings have the required access. I use a couple of vehicle models side-by-side to make sure I get the width right, unless I want a single lane alley or track, which is fairly common in this neck of the woodd.
Connecticut Valley Railroad A Branch of the New York, New Haven, and Hartford
"If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right." -- Henry Ford
Layout of LION is a SUBWAY layout. Roads are either above the subway or the tracks are elevated above the roads.
Lots od room for roads, but of course they are not there yet, except for Broadway in the Bronx which has the el above it.
Pitkin Avenue will be modeled along the south wall on the upper level.
Seventh Avenue is modeled both on the east loop and on the west loop, one above 42nd Street station, and the other above the 34th Street station.
Finally, I am going to model 9th Street in Brooklyn with the elevated above the buildings instead of above the street. Yeah IND!
My roads are more than a place to park model vehicles. I use the roads to force perspective and trick the viewer into thinking the layout is deeper than is really the case. Most of my layout is around-the-wall and two feet or less in width. The the aisle side of the layout, the roads are the correct width , but as it goes toward the background it gets narrower.
Below is an example . The highway bridge gets progressively more narrow as it goes from the forground back toward the middle of the layout. The road continues back to the backdrop, and it becomes more narrow. It bends to the right, and is too narrow for any HO vehicle. At the far right, the road is down to only about an inch wide before it disappears into the distance.
Below ( 2 photos) is a road which also starts out as correct width at the edge of the layout. It keeps getting more narrow as it crosses the tracks. It goes uphill. Behind the trees it transitions from the surface of the layout to being painted on the back drop.
This last picture shows a village with undersized houses and undersized roads. There are some N scale vehicles on the road which are not visible in this picture. The covered bridge is also undersized.
GARRY
HEARTLAND DIVISION, CB&Q RR
EVERYWHERE LOST; WE HUSTLE OUR CABOOSE FOR YOU
Gotta have believeable streets, just like any other scenic element.
Otherwise,,,,,you cant there from here!
Karl
NCE über alles!
kbkchoochGotta have believeable streets, just like any other scenic element.
...yes indeedy!
-Ken in Maryland (B&O modeler, former CSX modeler)
Garry:
Your transitions from actual roads to painted backdrops are superb!
I hope I can do half as well.
CSX_road_slug kbkchooch Gotta have believeable streets, just like any other scenic element. ...yes indeedy!
kbkchooch Gotta have believeable streets, just like any other scenic element.
Nice fade into the backdrop. Where have I seen that station before?
MisterBeasley I'm going to add a rant: [rant] I don't see this on the photos here, ever, but at train shows I see it a lot on display layouts. Some people insist on putting every vehicle they own on the roads, even though they are bumper-to-bumper and extend from end to end. There is little regard for era, and there are usually a few oversided Hot Wheels race cars mixed in to make it look even worse. [/rant
[rant] I don't see this on the photos here, ever, but at train shows I see it a lot on display layouts. Some people insist on putting every vehicle they own on the roads, even though they are bumper-to-bumper and extend from end to end. There is little regard for era, and there are usually a few oversided Hot Wheels race cars mixed in to make it look even worse. [/rant
Howdy, Mister Beasley,
Logical excuse for nose-to-tail vehicles. Put a highway worker with a lollipop facing the lane that's about 1.5 pickup lengths from the abyss (layout edge.) That leaves room for the pickup with the big PILOT CAR sign, facing traffic wrong-lane.
The nose-to-tail parade in the other lane is the squadron that was following the pilot car at 25mph through the construction zone. They should spread out as they get back up to speed. Once the last one clears, the pickup will make a Y-in reverse turn, The flagperson will flip the lollipop from STOP to PROCEED WITH CAUTION and step into the other lane.
As has been said innumerable times, there's a prototype for everything. Except the hot wheels racers, of course.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - with rather few motor vehicles)
Great topic!
I actually removed a sizable siding and was going to remove it's 4% grade when it occured to me it would make the perfect road leading into the layout. It was the solution to quite a number of problems, including eliminating a steep grade I didn't like for trains, and a super tight spot for a road to go through at one point, and provided a generous roadway even for big trucks. It looks like great planning, but admittedly, it was an afterthought.
Collecting and building 1/87 vehicles is a significant part of the hobby to me, and they now have their own fair share of "right of way", not just in parking lots.
Brakie said all else I would have said. Dan