We in the Vancouver area of British Columbia are looking to grow and change our Train Show that some have felt has become stale. I've never seen a thread discussing train shows other than advertising. So as an assist to us I have some questions about the show in your area, some things you do well and maybe not so well will help us to make our show better. [Note: if you aren't comfortable naming the show your are discussing then don't name it, I don't need to know the specific show, more the details of the show]
Questions:
What do you most like about your show?
What do you dislike about your show?
What is public admission?
What is registrants admission where applicable, early admission, latter admission?
What are the costs for vendors?
Aside from personal costs, any costings of exhibitors, especially layout exhibitors, what are they charged for tables and other fees?
Is money provided for some exhibitors, especially layout exhibitors for transportation, etc.?
What exhibitors, non-layout, attend your show, I'm especially interested in this question if they live or carry on business along the west coast of North America?
What strategies do you use for advertising, radio, TV, newspaper, modelling mags?
Do you have sponsors, if you don't want to name them, can you give me an idea of a category, like “Class 1 RR,” or something like that.
Aside from revenue generated by admission and participants at all levels, are there other forms of money or revenue you receive – again I respect this could be confidential so if you can generalize the answer that would be great.
If the train show is large (lets say 40,000 feet or larger) how many are on the executive and how many committees, maybe name the work the committees do would be great.
Thank you in advance for your participation.
[Also note: I will be asking this in several forums on the web, so if you have already seen this and responded in another forum, thank you]
Look at the below link.
http://www.amherstrail.org/show/show.htm
Go to the Home page. Ask them. I have belonged to this club for many years. Many years ago, one building, one day. Now four buildings and two days.
They are active in the MRH eZine also.
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
Here in the Twin Cities, we seem to have a lot of shows / sales going on. The Choo-Choo Bob's Hobby Shop / TV show just held a large train show / swap meet in Eagan MN March 22-23. Sat. April 5th is the Greater Upper Midwest Train Show & Sale at Century Community College in White Bear Lake. Sat. April 19 the Newport Model RR Club sponsors a flea market at Woodbury High School. Finally May 10th the Twin City Model Railroad Museum / O gauge club sponsors the twice-a-year "big" sale at the MN State Fairgrounds.
east of Toronto, ontario.
1) same place, same weekend for 30 years
3) six per adult, 12 per family, 5 per senior.
8) CN?CP Safety exhibit.
Vendors pay per table, all vendors, exhibitors get free lunch both days, Held in triple gym in high school.
The show in Chilliwack is a good show and I really like to attend that one every year. The two at Cameron Centre are OK, but are too cramped and crowded. That is the biggest complaint I hear from most people.
I don't understand why Vancouver can't have a show like Supertrain in Calgary. Vancouver has more than twice the population of Calgary and Calgary manages to have that show annually.
I feel the Greater Vancouver shows really lack exposure through the media. Anyone I have told about the Chilliwack show that goes, has had a very enjoyable time and many make it an annual trip with the kids and grand kids. Yet I never hear or see squat about these shows on the local news programs or in the "what's happening" this weekend parts of the newspapers we all get for free.
As far as admission cost go, whatever you charge is peanuts compared to the cost of just getting to the show. The Chilliwack show is 128 KMs round trip for me. At $.62 a KM to drive my 7.3LTR F-350 there and back, a couple of bucks in admission up or down is not worth thinking about.
I really hope that someone tries to give us the kind of show a city like Vancouver should have. I think it would be a risk that would pay off.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
As an attender of shows, I like those that have lots of stuff, lots of vendors.
I like the display layouts.
Like Batman, I have to drive a bit so for me also the gas out weighs the show cost. That said, how far I will drive depends on how good the show is. I have gone 3 hours one way for the National Train Show. But usually limit my driving to 2 hours for a good show like the Great Scale Train Show or 1 hour for a smaller show.
Good luck
Paul
I can only comment from a buyers point of view. I rarely look at new stuff , I can get that in a shop etc , so I like lots of sellers with used items , from box cars to magazines. One thing i really dislike is narrow isles , to many tables in not enough space, people tend to gather 1/2 way down any isle so they need to be wide. Also having a PA system is a plus , "Any seller have a Pink Lineol set " . And some of my favorite shows have had a place to get a cup of coffee.
Another attendees point of view.
1. Variety.
2. Narrow aisles.
3. Small shows $4-$6 w/family and military plans. Larger shows up to $10.
5. + 6. The ones I kinow about are $25/8' table. Free layout space.
8. Small shows, some individuals sideline income, small local shops, indviduals selliing off excess, donations recieved by a club being sold, are a few I can think of.
9. MR Coming Events, Local Radio/TV Community Events spots, LHS posters up to 50 - 75 miles depending on area, are a few of the places I am notified by.
11. 50/50 Raffle, need not be present to win. (Not part of admission.)
Just some ideas!
Don't ask why I used a different font for that paragraph. I haven't the slightest idea.
Good luck,
Richard
I agree with most of the previous comments. The only comment I can add is that I can't stand when it costs twice as much to park your car than it costs to get into the show!
Hornblower
You may be in for a big surprise, I attended a train show @ 6,000 people showed up ( a small town) I was asked to sit at a table and sell "stuff" new locos, new cars, passenger cars, power packs etc, I had no idea what I was doing, I was told this table was from all the exhibitors in the show, fixed price, no bargaining, profits made from the sale of this stuff had 10% go to the show to pay some bills, WELL, after about an hour all the stuff was sold, so they brought more stuff and again sold and they brought more stuff to sell, I'm talking $150 locos, $45 cars and coaches, I was amazed, I had so much money stuffed in a box they had to come and get it, the amount of money was incredible, and and guess who most of the buyers were??? other vendors, The show organizers made wads of money and so did the vendors, so there is money to be made at these events, Now I know why most MR's have tons of stuff under their layouts, they were like hyenas at a fresh kill.
Brent, you're reaction is similiar to those who have run the show in the past and are running it now. We can't "catch" Calgary's Super Train but we can try and improve ours significantly.
My own personal opinion is that TV spots and radio spots aren't that effective is a large city, more effective in a smaller population base. We had a TV spot on "Go Vancouver" with yours truly here making the pitch for the show, I'd show it to you but I detest seeing me. But you can go to our facebook page and track it down:
https://www.facebook.com/Trains2014
Here is a CBC spot on their web site featuring Mike Chandler, Master Modeler, with photos:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/working-on-the-model-railroad-for-16-years-1.2417589
CBC Vancouver did what I suspect is one of the best "spots" interviewing Mike Chandler for the Early Editon of Rick Cluff's show. I've tried to find it but its buried deep within the bowls of the web site.
I searched the site for Mike's interview which I feel is excellent and I think I have found it, hope the link works: [you need to go to the beginning of the 2nd hour so 2:00:00 on the video time, long radio show]
http://www.cbc.ca/player/Radio/Local+Shows/British+Columbia/The+Early+Edition/Full+Episodes/ID/2416459883/
CBC also came out, sending a crew on Saturday which had shoots of the show and we'd hope that might get more out on Sunday.
So its not like we aren't hitting the media, but our surveys of show attendees, public included, showed very little influence by TV and radio spots, depressingly so. And your response reflects the lack of our success of reaching people through the media.
We also had paid ads in the two Chinese newspapers. Community centers will reject our advertising if the show isn't in their area, so my local community center in North Vancouver, for example, wouldn't carry it - the show is in Burnaby. We ran into this a lot.
With reduced retailers, 3 Floors gone, Pacific Scale Rail gone, Van Hobbies gone, Hobby store in West Vancouver gone, relying on "stores" to advert is limited at best.
Happy to hear ideas from you. And the reason I posted my questions.
Take a look at the Trainfest (Milwaukee) website. It gives prices (including the early bird discounts) and other info
Trainfest is under new leadership in 2014 so a number of things are being freshly considered. However the main thing about Trainfest, historically, is the focus on operating layouts and that it is NOT a swap meet. There is a substantial presence by manufacturers as well and it has become one of the annual opportunities to announce new products.
There is large corps of volunteers from the local NMRA division that runs Trainfest. However it has become so big that a professional PR/advertising firm is retained and the set up of the room is done by a vendor rather than volunteers. It is also in an expensive locale that charges for everything -- every electrical plug in a socket -- and also charges for parking. Nonetheless in the last few years it has pretty consistently gotten 22,000 to 25,000 over its two day run.
http://www.trainfest.com/
Historical socities are not charged for their tables unless they sell stuff. Vendors are charged. The layouts are not charged but neither are they subsidized other than with a limited number of free tickets and free parking.
One guy is very much in charge but there is also a committee, all NMRA people except for the PR firm folks.
You need people to monitor and assist with orderly setup. You need folks at registration who need to record that packets have been picked up -- and are prepared to document what the vendor or person requested in the way of table and space -- you need a guy with a computer who has all that right there. You need someone to deal with the fire marshall. Radio communications in a large room are a must. Golf carts are very useful, nearly essential.
Dave Nelson
Trainfest in a small problem for us, not a big one. Our show is roughly around the same time and we know this scheduling basically blocks our opportunity to get manufactures to ours, this has been a reality for some time and something we accept due to our scheduling decisions.
Calgary's Supertrains (coming up in about 9 days as I type this) has begun to attratct manufactures, but because we are tail end charlie on the continent our hopes of getting an Atlas or whomever is slim. Again we accept this, but I am looking for other ways to compensate.
Rick.
Supertrains catchment area is the Calgary/Edmonton corridor with some participation from as far away as the West coast and points East depending on the weather. Vancouvers market for a larger show is the Vancouver/Seattle corridor. The Vancouver Canucks get a good crowd up from Seattle for games just as the Seattle Seahawkes get a lot of Canadians down for their games.
In talking to a friend of mine who does large trade shows, I asked him about where he draws his visitors from. The first thing he mentioned was depending on what the type of show it was (say health vs Finance) determines where the draw comes from. His biggest concern when plannig a show where he wants to attract the U.S. visitors is are they the type that holds Passports. He said only 31% of Americans hold passports vs 78% of the industrialized world. So you have to be careful in your planning he said.
I have talked to a lot of club members of U.S. clubs at the Lynden Washington show and at shows in B.C. Passports (or lack of) came up in the conversations as a reason that many club members don't accompany their clubs on their visits north of the border. Often when they do come up they are operating on a skeleton crew because of it. I guess a lot of train guy's just are not world travelers.
With all of the above I still think a much larger show is still possible. I think a show South of the Fraser, say at Tradex at Abbottsford would do well. The population to the East of Vancouver is more family oriented than those in Vancouver. After all who can afford a million bucks for an averaged priced dump in Vancouver these days. Train shows are good cheap family fun, so pack up and take the show to where the people are.
I grew up in North Vancouver and moved to the Fraser valley when I realized that I could get a huge house with a big train room on acreage for the same price as my house in North Vancouver. Now if only the Train shows would follow me East.
Batman
Did you go to Supertain? If so how was it?
Thanks Mike
The big no-no's of a train show is try to limit it to trains (it is amazing how many junk venders want in). Second is parking, alright to charge whatever you want as long as free parking is available a few blocks away. Try and have varius scales and price range for stuff and always have a reasonable tool salesman (tools sell and make people think the trip was worth it even if a tool is all they bought).
M_Robinson Batman Did you go to Supertain? If so how was it? Thanks Mike
Didn't make it Mike. I thought I would be going for sure as I had pretty much made up my mind to go.
I saw a specialist Doc on the Monday before the show for a rather minor issue that's been nagging me for a couple of years. He said I needed a Hospital stay for the problem and asked when I wanted to go in. Figuring I would have to wait a couple of weeks or so, he said how about Wednesday. I said "sounds good". So there ended the trip to the train show.
I haven't been in Hospital since 1957 when I was born in a January blizzard in Winnipeg ( except for all my broken bones, which didn't require an overnight ) . I must say it was an OK experience. I walked into Admitting and as I approached the girl said "you look like a Brent" I said "are you a Psychic"? It turned out I was the last one on the admitting list for the day and she saw this straggler coming.
She gave me a map to my ward on the sixth floor. Nice private room with an incredible view through the floor to ceiling windows and a 50" TV that was perfect for all those Hockey games and an excellent WIFI system. Had my days in the Hospital being waited on hand and foot and came home. Never even took my wallet out. I would have surely done that at the train show, so I saved a bundle.
Thanks Brent
Good to hear your hospital visit went well. Maybe you can do Supertain next year.
Quality dealers is a must if the show is to survive the coming years..A good show draws returnees and suggestions to others to attend because its a "great show"..
On the other hand junk dealers will turn attendees away and will lead to negative feed back.
Remember word of mouth can either help your show to survive or cause its early death due to the show not being worth the time and effort to attend..
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Best train shows always had: good selection of new and used, decent aisles, consistent dates, and plenty of parking.
Reasonable admission is a plus. Early admission, at higher costs can be a major turn-off to attend. Those who just want the regular price, feel the good stuff is already gone. They may not bother going. Late discount admission is a good way to attract more, but these are likely less serious buyers.
Consider the internet, has the easiest and largest selection. I haven't 'needed a show' for 20 years. I used to go to shows often. Purely optional now.
Make it easy and keep it friendly.
Good luck!
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William