I've been a reader here for quite a while, and now have room, wonderful, wonderful room to build. So, as you may expect, I have questions.
I have a carpeted 10 ft. square basement room, that is dry. Never no moisture.
My plan is for Colorado mining and lumber, and at this point is just forming in my mind. So, I figured it was big enough for On30, but correct me if I am wrong.
I have been looking for turn of the century shay/heisler locos, and it seems most of the economical stuff is Bachmann. Could you guys help me with plastic/ cast/brass manufacturers for these type engines? I have kinda decided to not go over $500.00.
Actually any help on good quality On30 suppliers would be a huge help. I have been searching on-line, but prefer suggestions by human beings with lots of experience to jump start me.
So... what's up with On30?
Thanks guys.
Life is tough, but it's tougher if your'e stupid.
Fouled Anchor,
To The Forums.
I personally don't have any experience with that gauge, but know of a site, that has ton's of info and pic's, that if it does not help you, it will surely entertain and give you more idea's than I can:
http://www.railserve.com/Models/Layouts/Narrow_Gauge/
Frank
I am right now starting a small, shelf-type On30 layout and just got my first engine and car a few days ago. Man, do I love them! it´s a Bachmann Forney, which was at sale at Micromark´s for just $ 99,95 (DCC, no sound), and a caboose, I bought at a train show for about $ 10.
The loco has a wealth of detail, including a choice of 3 different headlights and a cinder trap for the smoke stack. It´s a smooth runner, right from the beginning. The gearbox was a bit noisy at first, but after an hour´s running in, the noise is gone.
Bachmann has a nice selection of On30 locos and the can be had at prices way below MSRP. None of them has a real prototype though, which is no issue for me, as there has been no 2 1/2 ft. gauge railroad, either.
Aside from BLI, who had a D&RGW C-16 on sale some time ago, Bachmann seems to be the only source for On30 locos. I am not aware that there are any brass models around.
Sir Madog Bachmann has a nice selection of On30 locos and the can be had at prices way below MSRP. None of them has a real prototype though, which is no issue for me, as there has been no 2 1/2 ft. gauge railroad, either.
Ulrich, my friend, I most respectfully beg to differ.
My monitor desktop is Kurobe Gorge Railway EDS13, a 762mm gauge Bo+Bo steeplecab that still exists and still runs - or will, once the KGR reopens after its winter shutdown. (You don't buck snow when its depth is measured in meters!) The Kiso Forest Railway, also 762mm gauge, survived until it was superseded by self-loading log trucks in 1975. Models of both are in the as-yet-unbuilt parts of my master plan.
Japan had quite a few 762mm gauge rail lines, from commuter EMU under wire to little rural tramways. Very few survive today, but I rode several back in the 'sixties that have since dried up and blown away. The Kurobe Gorge Railway survives because it is the only access to the power stations in the roadless gorge. (Much of it is closed to passengers.)
Australia has an extensive system of 2'6" sugar cane railways. In the US, the Portland (Oregon) Zoo Railway runs 1:2 scale rolling stock on 2'6" gauge. If you add in 760mm ('Bosnian gauge') and 750mm (Decauville) the list of countries with close approximations of 30 inch gauge rails comes close to filling a page. The prototype helix (Tzu-li Shan) on Taiwan's AliShan Forest Railway is also 762mm gauge, and once hosted two classes of Lima-built Shay locos.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - with two 30 inch gauge feeders)
Chuck, I agree to what you say, and I disagree at the same time. Outside of the US, 2 1/2 ft. railroads were and still are quite common. Germany and Austria, just to name a few countries, have a number of lines still in operation (if you consider 750 mm, resp. 762 mm gauge as being the equivalent to 2 1/2 ft. gauge. In North America, 2 1/2 ft. gauge lines were mostly unknown.
As with HOn30, On30 is used to represent 2 foot narrow gauge. This was the commmon narrow gauge in Maine from the late 1800s until the 1930s Great Depression killed most of these RR off. It was also a common narrow gauge in Wales.
The reason that 30" gauge is used to represent 2 ft is that N scale locomotive mechansims can be used in HO scale and HO scale mechanisms can be used in O scale. This makes life easier for this small niche market (particularly in HO) to survive, and scale 6" is not that that much of a difference visually.
Here, on the Boothbay Railway Village layout, a 2 ft gauge train passes by the end of standard gauge.
The 1:1 2 footers at the museum pass by a couple dozen feet from our layout building front door. Here are a couple of prototype photos. An undated photo of SD Warren #1, probably around 1900.
And the museum's Plymouth critter with a restored passenger car that ran on Sandy River & Rangley Lakes RR
And last, but not least, one of the museums Henchel 2 footers working Day Out with Thomas
George In Midcoast Maine, 'bout halfway up the Rockland branch
Wow... guys thank you for the great support!!!
zstripe, thanks for the welcome, and the link is great... just what I was looking for.
Sir Madog, I have looked at the Bachmann stuff, and for the cost, they seem highly detailed. I think I will use them for consists I will not use all that much, and for the workers go with brass, as the Bachmann's I hear have plastic gears. Thank you for the advice, and good luck with the shelf layout.
tomikawa, thanks... not sure I understood all that.
G Paine, thanks. Do a lot of folks run both guages like that? Is there a difference btween On3 and On30? I think now I will stick to strictly On30 for both mining/timber operations, and also for a mainline loop for passenger service. I have vasilated between HOn3 for open scenery between operations, and On30 for the locomotive detail I admire. Solution... got permission for a little more room. Planning a "U" shape using 4X8 sheets, with one leg being 16 feet the other leg being 11 feet, and the base of the "U" being 12 feet. Do you guys feel this is suitable for On30?
Thanks again guys for the quick responses. No so confused anymore.
30" gauge was not unknown for contractor's railroads, such as would be involved with a major earthworks project, including major road and railroad construction. When MiniTrains first came out with HOn2 1/2, at the same time as the Eggerbahn line from Europe, the engines and cars of both were very much of the small mining/contractor/industrial railroad prototypes, with two axle freight cars and such. It was really Bachmann's On30 line that basically modeled 36" gauge trains on 30" gauge wheels and track, with larger locomotives and cars as a result
Bachmann has little 0-4-0T and 0-4-2T steamers that would be perfect for contractor's railroads but they seem to lack the small two axle freight cars to go with. Were I to dabble in On30 (and the trains seem very nicely done) I think I'd go with a real prototype 30" railroad.
There is usually a nice selectionof Bachmann On30 in the MicroMark sales flyers.
Dave Nelson
So, the track is correct but the locos and cars are not? Are there different codes available for On30. If I was to get a Bachman Climax in On30, the wheels and trucks would be correctly sized, but not the body?
I'll check out MicroMark, thanks.
Just an example of a German 2 1/2 line still in operation (with steam!):
Ulrich, could that loco be from Henchel Werk, like the 2 ft one in Boothbay I showed above (not the blue one). Those 0-4-0Ts worked the Hamburg docks before emigrating to Maine
Actually all of the Bachmann engines are based on real engines, but not all the same gauge. Their early products (like the 2-6-0) are based on Colorado 3' gauge railroads (D&RGW, RGS etc.). Some of their newer engines and cars are based on 2' gauge railroads from Maine, and a few of their engines are based on actual 30" gauge engines built by US manufacturers.
p.s. Just for background, HO gauge track works out in US O scale (1/4" = 1 foot) to be 30" wide, which inspired some modellers years ago to use it to model 2' or 3' gauge railroads. Bachmann started making On30 stuff a decade or so ago, and it's proved to be very popular.
There are more than one company that make superstructures for conversion of HO engines!
Back to the OP's question, Bachmann's line is affordable and reliable, plus the warranty is there to back you up.
"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination."-Albert Einstein
http://gearedsteam.blogspot.com/
As others have noted, Bachmann is the way to go, especially if you want to stay under $500 per engine. Consider scratch building your cars. They are wood and relatively easy to do.
You will find the 10x10 to be kinda of small for your layout. While the trains are narrow gauge and smaller, the buildings are still O scale. Even using 1900 era buildings, you'll have to be selective of prototype and probably compress them as well. I would suggest you consider either mining or lumbering, not both - especially if you're trying to cover the whole operation.
Good luck
Paul
G PaineUlrich, could that loco be from Henchel Werk, like the 2 ft one in Boothbay I showed above (not the blue one).
The loco was built in 1953 by Lokomotivbau Karl Marx in Babelsberg, near Berlin and noperated on various narrow gauge lines of Deutsche Reichsbahn in the former communistic part of Germany.
LKM used to be Orenstein & Koppel, before being forcibly nationalized by the East German government.
Thanks IronRooster, that makes a lot of sense. The layout is a "U" shape, one leg being 11', the other 11', and the base of the "U" is 12'. So, now I am considering HOn2 because of the reasons you mentioned, and am figuring the brass would be more affordable, and the selection greater. I downloaded that XTrackCAD, and right away got into issues using On3 for planning. How is brass detail for HOn2?
Thanks for pointing that out.
Wow, what a move! From On30 to HOn2!
To my knowledge, hardly anything is available R-T-R for that gauge. It´s pretty much a scratchbuilder´s scale and gauge. You even have to hand-lay your track.
Regarding IronRooster´s comment on the space you have, I agree to kindly disagree. I am in the process of building a T-shaped shelf layout, which is basically a 10´6" by 1´8" shelf with a leg of of 2´10" by 1´8" sticking out in the middle. It is loosely set somewhere on the Maine coast, so with lot´s of water.
The plan does not include some minor changes I have made in the meantime, however, something like this could be easily expanded into an around-the walls layout in your room.
The May 2008 issue of MR also featured a nice 10 by 12 layout called the Mojave & Death Valley RR - it´s worth taking a look at it!
Dang Sir Madog... now ya got me thinkin back on the On30 again. I am planning (using AnyRail 5) on a 2' shelf, but at each end of the U, a 4' square to handle a turn around for a continuous loop. The mining operation will all be point to point. What track are you planning to use? Gonna swith AnyRail over to On30 and see what fits. What minimum radius are you using? Dang.
Steve
Fouled Anchor ....So, now I am considering HOn2 because of the reasons you mentioned, and am figuring the brass would be more affordable, and the selection greater. I downloaded that XTrackCAD, and right away got into issues using On3 for planning. How is brass detail for HOn2?
....So, now I am considering HOn2 because of the reasons you mentioned, and am figuring the brass would be more affordable, and the selection greater. I downloaded that XTrackCAD, and right away got into issues using On3 for planning. How is brass detail for HOn2?
Similar to On30, HOn2 is usually HOn30, using N track gauge to represent 2ft gauge in HO scale. (9mm = 30.9" in HO scale). Due to a lack of non-brass locomotives in HOn3, HOn30 became somewhat popular in the 1980s.
There were some brass models (Flying Zoo and Joe Works are the brands I remember) made which tended to run as well as (or not) as their HOn3 bethren - these are still available used at e-Bay and similar. Those who didn't want to or couldn't pay for brass locos made their own using N mechanisms as the basis for their bashes. There is still a cottage industry supporting HOn2/HOn30, which has been revitalized to some extent by 3D printing at companies like Shapeways. David Huff (no web site) made some nice HOn30 stuff (mostly logging prototype) before his recent move into the Civil War era.
I have heard of a couple of HOn3 modelers who moved into or added true HOn2 to model the Gilpin Tram (2ft gauge) mining line in Colorado.
To represent 2ft gauge, On30 would be a lot easier to get started in unless you enjoy model building and bashing.
my thoughts, your choices
Fred W
fwrightSimilar to On30, HOn2 is usually HOn30, using N track gauge to represent 2ft gauge in HO scale.
Wouldn´t that be HOn30?
HOn2 would be something like 7.1 mm, or .6mm larger than Z scale track.
Z gauge track is used for Nn3 as it is almost 36" wide when used in N scale.
HOn2 generally uses N gauge for their track, which does scale out to 30" in HO scale. The scale/gauge disparity is/was accepted to be able to use N mechanisms, track, and wheels when there are not enough users to produce for a new gauge. At the time HOn30 was developed, N scale/gauge was the smallest practical scale/gauge combination. HOn30 is typically used to model 2ft gauge in HO, since HOn3 is an accepted scale/gauge with commercial support.
Like I said, I've heard of maybe two modelers who have ever attempted true HOn2 (7mm gauge at 3.5mm/ft).
Sn2 uses HOn3 (10.5mm vs the correct 9.5mm) for the same reasons.
To my knowledge, only On2 established enough of a commercial following to use a true scale/gauge relationship for an n2 scale. But the advent of On30, with nice RTR models of 2 ft gauge prototypes has pushed many would-be On2 modelers to use On30 as a substitute for On2.
It boils down to whether or not to accept a scale/gauge disparity or make everything track and locomotive-related yourself. More often than building everything yourself has been the use of a standard modeling gauge and a custom scale to make things come out correctly. 55n3 scale is a modern example, using HO track (16.5mm gauge) with 5.5mm/ft scale, to representing 3ft gauge at 1/55 scale. HO gauge mechanisms and details, particularly those that are over-size, look pretty good in 55n3.
The various scales using the same #1 gauge track are another example. 1/20.3 is true for 3ft gauge prototypes, whatever LGB used for a scale is true for meter gauge prototypes, and 1/32 is correct for standard gauge, all using the same track.
Fouled Anchor G Paine, thanks. Do a lot of folks run both guages like that? Is there a difference btween On3 and On30? I think now I will stick to strictly On30 for both mining/timber operations, and also for a mainline loop for passenger service. I have vasilated between HOn3 for open scenery between operations, and On30 for the locomotive detail I admire. Solution... got permission for a little more room. Planning a "U" shape using 4X8 sheets, with one leg being 16 feet the other leg being 11 feet, and the base of the "U" being 12 feet. Do you guys feel this is suitable for On30?
On30 and On3 are not the same. On3 is O scale (1/48) running on track that is 3 feet (36 inches) wide in O scale. On30 track is the same width as HO standard gauge track (although the ties are the wrong size), which means there is a lot of kitbashing of HO scale mechanisms for On30 motive power. On3 track is wider than On30 (6 scale inches) and can't use HO mechanisms (or On30 equipment.) As many have mentioned, 30" gauge was very rarely used in the united states, if at all--but it is a common stand-in for 2' gauge equipment.
Thanks Jetrock. Bachmann has a nice two truck Shay, and Climax in On30 which I hear good things about except for platic gears, and I found some nice flex track by Custom Trax, so I am settling on the On30.
Thanks Jetrock, ya gotta admit, it can be quite confusing. 30 years ago, it was simple.
Steven - to make it even more confusing: On30 runs on HO gauge track, but tie size and spacing are different then on your normal HO track. ZTo be blunt, On30 stock looks quite silly on HO track. Custom Trax does not make On30 track - your source would be either Peco or MicroEngineering.
Ulrich, I was so confused that I just brought the old dart board... On30 it is.
Welcome to the club - I am just in the process of starting my own On30 layout. Last Thursday, I received my order of Peco On30 track. Btw, I am going to use regular code 100 HO track for my staging.
A quick comparison:
Ulrich... good news for me! I'm just starting, and I hope you do not mind comparing notes once in a while.
Are you planning to use layout software? I have been learning AnyRail, and really like the easment tools... quick and easy. How big will your layout be?
Have a good day.
Steve,
the layout is basically a shelf layout, a little over 10´6" long and 19" wide. There is a leg sticking out, making it into a T-shaped layout. That leg will have to be removed, when the layout is not in operation. On the right side is an extension which will be the staging. This is also removable, as it in front of the windows of this room. I don´t have a separate train room, so my layout shares the space with my office, guest room and laundry room.
Here is the latest edition of my track plan:
I am using an old version of WinRail for my track planning exercises. As it is about 10 years old now, its library does not contain all the recent additions. It does include Peco´s On30 track, though, that´s why I went for them.
Right now I am struggling with constructing the benchwork, for which I need the help of a friend, who is not available at the moment. So that will have to wait for some more time. Once I have started on building the layout, I will open a thread in the layouts section on the construction.
If you are looking for some inspiration, take a look here . I´s 100 pages, loaded with info on h2do things!