b60bpYou can actually find inflation charts in the internet. See what's happened to Atlas track prices over the last five or six years
If you will check _your_ facts, I am pretty confident that you will find that it has been more than 5-6 years ago that Code 100 was made in the US. But it is fine, you should stay warm and cozy in your fantasy world -- unless you have a time machine, in which case you should travel back then and stock up.
floridaflyercurrent prices on the net: code 100 flex Modelpower $3.20 pc- 25 pack Atlas $3.60pc- 25 pack Peco $5.00 pc- 25 pack Shino $6.71 pc- 10 pack
And "Made in the USA" ME Code 100 flex track is $4.47 at Modeltrainstuff. Huh, _more_ than that evil "Made in China" Atlas track. Could it be that the facts show that made in the USA _would likely not_ be cheaper than Atlas current factory?
Do I wish things could be made in the US at a competitive price point? Sure. But if wishes were horses, beggars would ride.
But both Peco and Shinohara are METRIC lengths, meaning they are close to 39-1/2 inches per stick instead of a U.S. Yard piece of 36 inches.
So adding 10% to the atlas to make it a perfect match for 39.6 inches would make Atlas $3.96. Doing the same for the other 36" track would make modelpower $3.62, and, ME $4.94. Atlas still is second lowest. Not factoring in any other factor than price, not recommending one over the other, just presenting the current price, One could argue inflation and the "good old days" till the cows come home. Atlas still remains one of the lowest cost alternatives available. And if MP is still steel, then Atlas is the lowest priced NS track available.
alco_fan floridaflyer current prices on the net: code 100 flex Modelpower $3.20 pc- 25 pack Atlas $3.60pc- 25 pack Peco $5.00 pc- 25 pack Shino $6.71 pc- 10 pack And "Made in the USA" ME Code 100 flex track is $4.47 at Modeltrainstuff. Huh, _more_ than that evil "Made in China" Atlas track. Could it be that the facts show that made in the USA _would likely not_ be cheaper than Atlas current factory? Do I wish things could be made in the US at a competitive price point? Sure. But if wishes were horses, beggars would ride.
floridaflyer current prices on the net: code 100 flex Modelpower $3.20 pc- 25 pack Atlas $3.60pc- 25 pack Peco $5.00 pc- 25 pack Shino $6.71 pc- 10 pack
Guess I'm gonna have to do the hard way. OK. Grab yourself a five or six year old MR or RMC, if you've been in the hobby that long. Check the prices the dis counters were charging. Too difficult? Ok, I'll handle it. Here's a few examples from January, 2008, six years ago. Atlas 52/53 switch machine $5.59; now $7.99: increase 43 per cent. Atlas 153 turnout $7.99, now $12.25: increase 53 per cent. Pack of 9 inch straights: $3.69 , now $5.75, increase 56 per cent. Then, bundles of Atlas track $2.10 per section. According to one of the postings it can be had for $3.30 a piece in a bundle. We'll, that's an increase of a mere 57 per cent.
Now, maybe where you live, inflation's been running an average 8.83 per cent a year. But I live in the USA and inflation here has been nothing remotely close to that. Maybe you're thinking of the most beloved People's Republic, which I understand is the best place in the world to make things.
Funny thing though. I just bought a bundle of Precision Scale flex, paying full retail of $31.75. I could have ordered via online and saved better than 20 per cent. I just looked in a Walthers 1998 catalog and price was $23.76. That's 34 per cent increase over 16 years! Oh yeah, the stuff's made in Montana.
Sure wish we could be good folks like the commissars and enjoy that super stable pricing.
Benny
Atlas remains the low priced alternative available today. Is that"to dificult" for you to understand. If paying more now than you would have in yesteryear is a moral dilemma for you don't buy any. Have a good one.
floridaflyer Atlas remains the low priced alternative available today. Is that"to dificult" for you to understand. If paying more now than you would have in yesteryear is a moral dilemma for you don't buy any. Have a good one.
I looked again at the figures you posted and something popped out at me. At only $.87 a length more than Atlas, the Micro stuff is really a bargain. Atlas code 100 looks almost toylike, which isn't surprising since it hasn't been upgraded since the 1960's. Even Atlas code 83 looks less realistic than Micro code 100, but the code 100 Atlas should be cheaper, way cheaper, than the quality brands. I will admit that it's fine for staging areas and hidden trackage, which is where I use it, but I haven't bought any new Atlas for decades.
Oh well, to each his own. I've got track from Atlas, Peco, Micro, Precision Engineering, an odd German brand here or there, and Nickle Plate Products. (Anyone remember that brass importers track? I think it may have been made by Shinohara but couldn't swear to it. The flex was decent but the turnouts terrible).
b60bpNickle Plate Products. (Anyone remember that brass importers track? I think it may have been made by Shinohara but couldn't swear to it. The flex was decent but the turnouts terrible).
Lambert Associates was another brass importer, and they also cataloged Shinohara track and turnouts.
I still have some (Atlas) code 100 that I paid a buck-fifty for. "Made in USA" all over it. Sad, it seems not that long ago that I bought it......
Mike C.
Does it really matter, whether Atlas track is the cheapest, when it is not available in the market? Atlas moved the production to China to improve the margin on this product, just like any other former manufacturer now importer. If I remember my math correctly, any figure multiplied by zero still remains zero. Zero sales, zero margin.
I bet, that within short time, Atlas will move out of the track market. Dealing with quality and supply issues in China eats up whatever margin they realize on the few sales they make, and handling irate dealers and customers sure is no fun, either. Maybe time for Bachmann to step in and develop a new line of track, replacing their more toyish E-Z track.
I wish they´d do this, including On30 track. Bachmann is the only source of mass-produced On30 equipment, but don´t offer a track system.
Sir Madog I bet, that within short time, Atlas will move out of the track market.
I bet, that within short time, Atlas will move out of the track market.
On the one hand, that is hard to imagine since Atlas has led that market for so long.
On the other hand, I guess that it is not hard to imagine since, effectively, Atlas has found itself out of the market for well over a year now.
Rich
Alton Junction
I kinda doubt Atlas will be getting out of the track business, they would have a hard time trying to sell all the Electric components, that were almost exclusively designed for the track products they made. I also am sure that Atlas is rather more upset about the track problem, then the guy that can't get any, at the moment!
Again there is absolutely, nothing we can do about it, as individuals.
Restpecfully!
Frank
Sir MadogMaybe time for Bachmann to step in and develop a new line of track, replacing their more toyish E-Z track.
There is opportunity in the track market. If there wasn't Rapido would not have moved into the track business.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
b60bp floridaflyer Atlas remains the low priced alternative available today. Is that"to dificult" for you to understand. If paying more now than you would have in yesteryear is a moral dilemma for you don't buy any. Have a good one. I looked again at the figures you posted and something popped out at me. At only $.87 a length more than Atlas, the Micro stuff is really a bargain. Atlas code 100 looks almost toylike, which isn't surprising since it hasn't been upgraded since the 1960's. Even Atlas code 83 looks less realistic than Micro code 100, but the code 100 Atlas should be cheaper, way cheaper, than the quality brands. I will admit that it's fine for staging areas and hidden trackage, which is where I use it, but I haven't bought any new Atlas for decades. Oh well, to each his own. I've got track from Atlas, Peco, Micro, Precision Engineering, an odd German brand here or there, and Nickle Plate Products. (Anyone remember that brass importers track? I think it may have been made by Shinohara but couldn't swear to it. The flex was decent but the turnouts terrible).
BATMAN Sir Madog Maybe time for Bachmann to step in and develop a new line of track, replacing their more toyish E-Z track. There is opportunity in the track market. If there wasn't Rapido would not have moved into the track business.
Sir Madog Maybe time for Bachmann to step in and develop a new line of track, replacing their more toyish E-Z track.
But they don't have it yet. Walther's lists is as available in April - 1 piece for $7.50.
Atlas track has been coming, turnouts just sell out quickly.
Enjoy
Paul
IRONROOSTER BATMAN Sir Madog Maybe time for Bachmann to step in and develop a new line of track, replacing their more toyish E-Z track. There is opportunity in the track market. If there wasn't Rapido would not have moved into the track business. But they don't have it yet. Walther's lists is as available in April - 1 piece for $7.50. Atlas track has been coming, turnouts just sell out quickly. Enjoy Paul
Don't forget, it also includes joiners!
When and if Atlas track becomes available again, will their prices still be the same or will there be a price increase due to the problems encountered in finding someone in China to make it.
Some folks have suggested moving manufacturing back the US. I say why not? Here in South Carolina we've been seeing a boom in manufacturing. After the textile industry left, BMW came in, along with all their suppliers. Then so did Michelin, Boeing, Honda and the list goes on. There are firms here that could easily make models if they had the tooling.
Modeling the Pennsylvania Railroad in N Scale.
www.prr-nscale.blogspot.com
BATMANRapido would not have moved into the track business.
So far, they still have not. Waiting for their product to come ... from China.
b60bpFunny thing though. I just bought a bundle of Precision Scale flex, paying full retail of $31.75. I could have ordered via online and saved better than 20 per cent.
Even with a 20% discount to $4.23 per piece, _still_ more expensive that Atlas .. which _again_ negates your primary assertion that Atlas track would be cheaper if made in the US.
Done here ... xenophobia and irrationality rules in this thread.
alco_fan b60bp Funny thing though. I just bought a bundle of Precision Scale flex, paying full retail of $31.75. I could have ordered via online and saved better than 20 per cent. Even with a 20% discount to $4.23 per piece, _still_ more expensive that Atlas .. which _again_ negates your primary assertion that Atlas track would be cheaper if made in the US. Done here ... xenophobia and irrationality rules in this thread.
b60bp Funny thing though. I just bought a bundle of Precision Scale flex, paying full retail of $31.75. I could have ordered via online and saved better than 20 per cent.
Oh man, are you still on this bunk?! How many American made model products have you seen inflate 57 per cent in six years? And Atlas SHOULD be cheaper, much cheaper , because it's so much less realistic. And a person can shop around and get the US brands for nearly as deep a discount as Atlas goes for in your example. Precision Scale can be had for $3.81. a length at Beckers Hobby supply, $.20 more than Atlas.
Xenophobic= politically correct stereotype for anyone who doesn't admire Red China.
Buy all the Atlas you like, makes no difference to me. But I can't believe that Atlas can be happy to have spent all that money to relocate, only to lose control of their own production output. How many sales have they lost? They were the industry leader for decades. Walk into a hobby shop anywhere and as much as you wanted could be taken off the shelf. We were buying their switch kits ( yes kits ) back in the late 1950's. If a person wanted to spend the evening laying track he could pick some flex up on the way home from work. This was Atlas's strength. Now, not so much. I think they'll stay the leaders, but they've taken some damage.
GP-9_Man11786 Some folks have suggested moving manufacturing back the US. I say why not? Here in South Carolina we've been seeing a boom in manufacturing. After the textile industry left, BMW came in, along with all their suppliers. Then so did Michelin, Boeing, Honda and the list goes on. There are firms here that could easily make models if they had the tooling.
Gotta love this posting. Huge foreign companies seeking the low cost producers, and it turned out to be us!
In 1977 I bought my first brand new Chevy truck. I drove it off the lot to the gas station and it took $26.50 to fill with gas from empty. Two days ago I put a whole tank of diesel in my F-350 and it was $174.00 to fill. Are people arguing over the price difference in track that amounts to pennies or a few dollars at most for a layout?...... Really!!!!!!
richhotrain Sir Madog I bet, that within short time, Atlas will move out of the track market. On the one hand, that is hard to imagine since Atlas has led that market for so long. On the other hand, I guess that it is not hard to imagine since, effectively, Atlas has found itself out of the market for well over a year now. Rich
So is the Atlas track shortage over yet?
"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination."-Albert Einstein
http://gearedsteam.blogspot.com/
Geared Steam So is the Atlas track shortage over yet?
Not yet, GS, but it could happen at any moment. For that reason, you should check the Atlas web site once per hour.
While were waiting lets all click on the gold stars up in the corner to pass the time.
I seem to remember the supposed benefits of overseas production.
1. Lower prices.(Didn't happen)
2. Higher quality. (didn't happen)
3. more reliable supply. (Won't happen either)
I can remember a time when if a dealer didn't have a certain product, within a few days he'd have it.
That was replaced with no matter how many places you search, "Out of stock".
I still have several MDC Roundhouse kits stored away, in box. Prices marked all under five dollars.
If the manufaccturing is so much cheaper, who is it cheaper for?
GreybeardIf the manufaccturing is so much cheaper, who is it cheaper for?
In this case it was cheaper for the parent company, Atlas, but not really for the consumer. I think the only reason they shifted production to China was not so much to keep the retail price low, but to increase the profit margin. I think they figured, why make the product here and settle for a 50-100% profit margin when we can have it made in China, sell it for the same price & make a 300-400% profit margin?
Well, it backfired on them. They lost control of their production. A higher profit margin is meaningless if you have no product to sell and you're losing sales to your competitors. Obviously, people are willing to pay the difference for other brands because at least it is available. And they're finding out that in many ways those other brands are better products. I wonder how much longer Atlas is going to put up with this & finally realize that this whole China deal was a mistake.
Yes, if you brought the track production back home you would likely have to charge the same prices as the track that is made here now. Well, people are already willing to pay that anyway, so why not?
Carl
"I could never belong to any club that would have me as a member."
Carl, some will challenge your statement, but I won't. I agree with you.
Back in 2004, when I built my first HO scale layout, I bought Atlas flex track for $3.00 per stick. Now, the retail price is $6.75, but it is nowhere to be found. Rapido is $7.50 but not yet available. Peco is $7.20 per stick, but at least it is available. Micro Engineering is the cheapest at $5.49, it is available, and it is made in the USA. Go figure.
And then there is Walthers at $12.00 per stick. Tell me how a single section of flex track is worth $12. Talk about taking advantage of the market. Total ripoff.
Buying track nowadays can be one of the most expensive elements of building a layout.
I lucked out last November on my last trip down to our nearest train shop. At least then, he had plenty of Atlas Code 83 Flex in stock (3 or 4 cases as I recall) & was giving 20% off if you bought a bundle or more. I still had 4 or 5 sticks, but I bought another bundle, just to have it. But, anything else in Atlas was pretty sparse. He had a couple #8 turnouts & a couple Wye's, a few 6-packs of straight & curved, but that's about it.
Took me weeks to find a L & R #4 turnouts that I needed for a new section of the layout. Finally a couple showed up on Ebay & I grabbed them. I'm going to need at least 4 more, but can't find them. I also broke down & bought a couple Walther's Shinohara turnouts & I like them better than Atlas.