tstage Spring better get here soon. You guys have been cooped up inside far too long. Tom
Spring better get here soon. You guys have been cooped up inside far too long.
Tom
It's been a tough and long winter for some apparently.
"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination."-Albert Einstein
http://gearedsteam.blogspot.com/
Spring is here! My Dafodils are 6 inches high already.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
I just came from the only remaining hobby shop in Tucson, Arizona, The Hobby Place at Ace Hardware, and they are beginning to receive small shipments of Atlas code 100 Snap Track pieces, but nothing else from Atlas. Lots of Bachmann EZ Track and Peco flex track and turnouts in both code 100 and code 83 available.
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
I'll tell you one thing, Bob, and that is, if I ever again need Atlas track, I am coming your way.
Rich
Alton Junction
richhotrain rrinker I visited Bob around the Christmas holidays and i saw track for sale.. just saying. --Randy LOL Randy, I was just venting to hear myself talk. Rich
rrinker I visited Bob around the Christmas holidays and i saw track for sale.. just saying. --Randy
I visited Bob around the Christmas holidays and i saw track for sale.. just saying.
--Randy
LOL
Randy, I was just venting to hear myself talk.
I agree a lot! ;-)
BOB H - Clarion, PA
It really all depends on what part of the country you live in and the important part: Did You or Your LHS, or distributor, pre-order. Atlas stated on their website months ago, they are filling and shipping all the pre-orders first and as others have stated, they are selling as fast as they arrive. It's really not that hard to figure out.
Jason at Rapido, is doing the same thing, with his ''Bendy Track'' He explained that on his Web site.
Frank
IRONROOSTERThis whole ongoing episode shows just how popular Atlas track is. And it shows that most people want the low price since there doesn't appear to be a major run on competitors' higher priced track. Paul
I have notice MBK has a lot of restocking on Peco and ME flex track over the past few months since the storage of Atlas track.
I also recall on the old Atlas forum where Atlas replied that C100 is still their best seller..I had forgotten that in my reply-too early in the morning and without my first cup-well that's my hair brain excuse for old age forgetness.
Oddly enough Peco C100 switches and ME C100 flex track is cheaper then their C83..
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
richhotrain cmrproducts My local Hobby Shop has both c83 and c100 in stock! We just got 2 cases of c100 track in last week and the c100 turnouts are starting to arrive! You guys are just venting to hear yourselves talk! BOB H - Clarion, PA Bob, you are not very sympathetic to your fellow modelers, but I could care less since I switched from Atlas to Peco when Atlas could no longer deliver. But, in deference to our fellow modelers, I just checked three huge on line retailers - - MB Klein, Caboose Hobbies, and Hobbylinc - - - and none of them have Atlas Code 83 track in stock. For all we know, you could be making up that stuff about your LHS having Atlas Code 83 track in stock. Rich
cmrproducts My local Hobby Shop has both c83 and c100 in stock! We just got 2 cases of c100 track in last week and the c100 turnouts are starting to arrive! You guys are just venting to hear yourselves talk! BOB H - Clarion, PA
My local Hobby Shop has both c83 and c100 in stock!
We just got 2 cases of c100 track in last week and the c100 turnouts are starting to arrive!
You guys are just venting to hear yourselves talk!
Bob, you are not very sympathetic to your fellow modelers, but I could care less since I switched from Atlas to Peco when Atlas could no longer deliver.
But, in deference to our fellow modelers, I just checked three huge on line retailers - - MB Klein, Caboose Hobbies, and Hobbylinc - - - and none of them have Atlas Code 83 track in stock.
For all we know, you could be making up that stuff about your LHS having Atlas Code 83 track in stock.
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
BRAKIE IRONROOSTER Atlas is delivering hundreds of code 100 turnouts, but they are selling like crazy. One online store has gone from over 400 #6 turnouts to less than 40 in the space of a couple of weeks. Snap switches before Christmas were over 1000 and are now down around 300 at this same dealer. Paul,Find Atlas C83 track in stock good luck. Thousands of modelers no longer use C100 so,it may not be so funny after all.
IRONROOSTER Atlas is delivering hundreds of code 100 turnouts, but they are selling like crazy. One online store has gone from over 400 #6 turnouts to less than 40 in the space of a couple of weeks. Snap switches before Christmas were over 1000 and are now down around 300 at this same dealer.
Paul,Find Atlas C83 track in stock good luck.
Thousands of modelers no longer use C100 so,it may not be so funny after all.
Larry,
What's funny is that people are lambasting Atlas for not having product to sell, when they actually are selling lots of product. They are selling faster than they can make it, but they are selling and selling a lot.
Obviously, a lot of people still use code 100 since it sells so well. I have heard that it sells better than code 83. But it will soon be the case that code 100 #6 switches are sold out. I don't know when the last shipment of code 83 came in, but according to the Atlas schedule more is coming. But it will probably sell out quickly and be unavailable again.
This whole ongoing episode shows just how popular Atlas track is. And it shows that most people want the low price since there doesn't appear to be a major run on competitors' higher priced track.
Paul
Rich,
transfering the tooling back to the US is virtually impossible. The PR China hardly honors any international trade agreement, unless it is to their benefit.
We finally gave up trying to move the tooling.
The Chinese may operate the production phase, but they likely did not design the tooling. Surely, that was done here in the U.S.
So, how hard or time consuming could it be to transfer production back to the good old USA?
From my point of view, they may have been a little to "blue-eyed" () when they transfered the production to China, not knowing what expenses arise from such a venue. In my time, the first thing I did when we ran into quality and delivery issues, was to hire local QC staff, which meant we had to open a local business there. You don´t want to know what amount of red tape was involved and how high the bill ran for that exercise. Even after having local staff on board, either one of my partners or I traveled to China at least once a month. In 2009, we decided it wasn´t worth the trouble, as our customers expected to pay Chinese prices, but did not honor the effort we had to put in to get the quality they expected. Since then, things may have changed a little, but, again, the rise of the RMB and ever increasing wages make China a less attractive place to go.
Whoever thinks they can pull the same trick with Vietnam or an African country will be just repeating the same mistake.
IRONROOSTERAtlas is delivering hundreds of code 100 turnouts, but they are selling like crazy. One online store has gone from over 400 #6 turnouts to less than 40 in the space of a couple of weeks. Snap switches before Christmas were over 1000 and are now down around 300 at this same dealer.
So, Ulrich, let me ask you a follow up question.
Is Atlas completely blameless?
richhotrainLet's hear from someone who has been there.
Well, Rich, I have been there! Up until 2009, I did quite a lot of business in the field of precision castings with a number of foundries in China and spent a lot of time over there. Here is my impression:
QC is an ongoing issue. As long as you don´t have your own QC staff on-site, you will always encounter quality problems. A lot of companies underestimate the cost of setting up a rigid quality regime in China.
Chinese manufacturers don´t say no - they will always promise you they can do just everything and that they have a tremendous experience in what you want them to do.
Delivery schedules are not worth the paper they are written on. Unless you have own staff monitoring the production process, meeting deadlines is just a gamble.
Chinese managers still think in production quotas, regardless whether the product is good or bad.
Now, I don´t say that one cannot do on-time, quality business with Chinese manufacturers, but you need to be prepared to invest a sizable amount into it. QC and process control need to be in your hands. That´s what the Japanese do. Companies like Kato, who do most of their manufacturing in China, do dispatch a lot of staff to China to monitor each production step and initiate corrective measures within the process. Yes, all of this eats up the margin, and with the appreciation of the RMB (Yuan) and the rising wages in China, having your products made in China has become a lot less attractive. Quite many companies are right now bringing back their production for that very reason.
I would like to hear from someone like Jason Shron at Rapido Trains who has production facilities in China.
Without asking him to criticize Atlas, what is the problem?
Can the Chinese be relied upon to produce a quality product? Is there a mismanagement problem when your track production comes to a complete halt for 1 to 2 years?
Let's hear from someone who has been there.
Swedish Custom painter and model maker. My Website:
My Railroad
My Youtube:
Graff´s channel
"I would say that with no product to sell and their customers being forced to go elsewhere for what they need, Atlas is squeezing themselves out of the track market. And they have no one but themselves to blame for it, because they have allowed this situation to exist for far too long. You can't stay in business when all you can deliver are "promised delivery schedules" that keep getting pushed back and pushed back month after month. People tend to not want to pay very much for un-fulfilled promises. Profit margin isn't too good on them either.
Carl"
You have a straw man argument there. I thought we were talking about profits and intents. Now you switch to a poor decision based on Chinese culture. Which is it to be...I can't keep up.
This thread sure is funny.
Atlas is delivering hundreds of code 100 turnouts, but they are selling like crazy. One online store has gone from over 400 #6 turnouts to less than 40 in the space of a couple of weeks. Snap switches before Christmas were over 1000 and are now down around 300 at this same dealer. (I don't know how much they got in since I don't check HO track very often.)
Atlas is producing and delivering. But catching up is going to take a while. I think people are stockpiling the stuff, which of course keeps the shortage going.
alco_fan BATMAN Rapido would not have moved into the track business. So far, they still have not. Waiting for their product to come ... from China.
BATMAN Rapido would not have moved into the track business.
So far, they still have not. Waiting for their product to come ... from China.
The first shipment of Code 100 track was delivered to distributors last week.
Code 83 and more Code 100 are leaving the factory in the next few days.
-Jason
Jason Shron - President - Rapido Trains Inc. - RapidoTrains.comMy HO scale Kingston Sub layout: Facebook.com/KingstonSub
fwrightYes, by all means cheer if Atlas goes belly up because of their China problems. Not Walthers/Shinohara, not Peco, not ME, not even all 3 combined could make up completely for the permanent loss of Atlas track from the market.
Atlas would be a great lost as far as locomotives and freight cars..N Scale would be devastated since Atlas is still the main supplier of locomotives.
Track wise..
As the on going Atlas track shortage as shown modelers that really need and want track is turning to Peco,ME and other brands..Peco and ME seems to be keeping up with the demand.
AVRNUT Well, let's see............you have a country with less than scrupulous manufacturers. You have a country where their laws can hold your production & tooling hostage. You have a country where if you don't ride herd on the manufacturers, you get a poor product. That would certainly seem an attractive atmosphere in which to have a product with a well known, trusted brand on it made. Sorry, but it was a poor decision to begin with. And staying there after all this time while these issues continue with no end in sight is an even poorer one.
Well, let's see............you have a country with less than scrupulous manufacturers.
You have a country where their laws can hold your production & tooling hostage.
You have a country where if you don't ride herd on the manufacturers, you get a poor product.
That would certainly seem an attractive atmosphere in which to have a product with a well known, trusted brand on it made.
Sorry, but it was a poor decision to begin with. And staying there after all this time while these issues continue with no end in sight is an even poorer one.
Yeah, hindsight is fantastic. Unfortunately, only the 3rd point was common knowledge 10-15 years ago when the out-sourcing decisions were made. What was also common knowledge 10-15 years ago was that your competition that had already moved to China was producing at a lower cost than you were. At the time, ME was the high-cost track producer, but they served a niche market that was willing to pay extra for the finer detail and the smaller rail size.
Fred W
Carl
"I could never belong to any club that would have me as a member."
Greybeard I was being sarcastic. I'm aware that the only motive for moving production anywhere, here or abroad, is profit. The customer doesn't mean anything except what the companies see as an endless source of money. If that decision turns around and bites Atlas, I'll cheer. Maybe a few others would have to look at the same happening to them.
I was being sarcastic. I'm aware that the only motive for moving production anywhere, here or abroad, is profit. The customer doesn't mean anything except what the companies see as an endless source of money. If that decision turns around and bites Atlas, I'll cheer. Maybe a few others would have to look at the same happening to them.
Ah, yes. Down with evil businesses that supply (or don't supply) us hobbyists what we want entirely at their own risk. Practically all of them (Atlas and Bachmann being the known exceptions) are small businesses owned and run by a small group or family who were/are into model railroading themselves.
I would disagree that customers mean nothing but an endless source of money to model railroad companies. Customer satisfaction is everything in this line of work - there are too many alternatives for customers who feel "taken". But I'm not going to convince the cynics in this crowd. Only when they go into the model railroad business themselves will they see how difficult a market it is to serve well.
Costs have to be kept in line with the competition for a company to be profitable. Without a reasonable profit, the company goes out of business. Period. In my line of real work, we are generally a prime or general contractor with several key partners and suppliers. We have to make sure that we do not squeeze them too much on price or payment schedule, or we end up failing as a prime or general contractor because our suppliers failed.
Atlas has always produced their locomotives and rolling stock abroad; only the track was produced in the U.S. When Walthers first contracted with Japan-based Shinohara for their code 83 track, they were actually lower cost than Atlas. This was Atlas's first serious competition in the track market since the days of Tru-scale. Atlas then went to China for both rolling stock and track to keep their costs in line with their competition, thereby retaining market share and position as the low cost track manufacturer.
MTH bankrupted Lionel in the 1990s by moving their production to Korea, and later China ahead of Lionel.
Yes, by all means cheer if Atlas goes belly up because of their China problems. Not Walthers/Shinohara, not Peco, not ME, not even all 3 combined could make up completely for the permanent loss of Atlas track from the market.
just my thoughts and experiences
It's not liek they set out to make sure they had no product. Fritz is probably the only one in any of these threads to actually get it right. Atlas got hosed by less than scrupulous Chinese manufacturers and Chinese law that held their tooling hostage. They absolutely did not set uout to have a year go by with little or no product, the plan was a few months while production shifted. Not unreasonable, and not really wishful thinking on their part. I know too many people that travel to China and other places like Thailand, they have ot ride herd on the factories because if you don't, you get poor products.