Basic Inexpensive Diesels Like Old Athearn

["JaBear"]

While there’s not wrong with viewing the past nostalgically through coloured glasses, don’t be surprised, or even disappointed if others aren’t wearing the same glasses.

I must admit to be somewhat envious reading of these large amounts of BB kits, (for me kitbashing fodder), that are still available about at US train shows, and while I’m in no hurry to replace my BB locos, let alone freight cars, mourning the past is counterproductive, though I’d also argue that “evolution” is not necessarily all it’s cracked to be.

Cheers, the Bear.

[Southgate]

When I was new here, I started a thread "Left Behind by Technology, Am I Alone?.  What, about a year and some ago now...  It was the only thread I ever started that I couldn't read all the replies to!  I wasn't lamenting, just wanted to know how many guys like myself there are who like old school stuff.

The 'bay satisfies the supply/demand equasion for me, and I do have enough P2k and other nice engines to run the RR if I wanted to. But it's still fun to get the hands on and in the machinery and make them purr. Dan

[modelmaker51]

I find that the oportunities for kit bashing locomotives have increased over the years. While Athearn BB kits direct from the manufacturer are gone, there are still plenty available thru trainshows and Ebay etc. There are are also plenty of chassis and shells (from other manufacturers) available thru Ebay and the secondary markets and most of these with a higher level of detail and higher quality drives than those old Athearn BBs. I have always been a kitbasher and I never spend more than 50-75 bucks, now thats more than the price of the old BBs. but as I said the quality is better and the price of everything has gone up too. You just have to be creative.

[BRAKIE]

cacole

They do -- the basic Athearn RTR locomotives are still Blue Box kit quality but everything is pre-assembled.  Only the more expensive Genesis locomotives have the 'superior detail' you mention.

 

 

Actually the RTR Athearn are superior to the older BB locomotives..They have the hex drive train, wire grabs and are smoother runners straight from the box.

[BRAKIE]

Guys,There's still a lot of BB cars and locomotives available on e-Bay,train shows and the use market.

Bachmann's newer "DCC On Board" and "Sound Value" locomotives are smooth runners and reasonably price.

Athearn RTR is within reason,Atlas has Trainman locomotives..

Don't overlook the older Gold and Blue box LL P2K,then there's the yellow and red box Atlas locomotives.

There are reasonably priced locomotives available as well as the BB locomotives.

[cacole]

They do -- the basic Athearn RTR locomotives are still Blue Box kit quality but everything is pre-assembled.  Only the more expensive Genesis locomotives have the 'superior detail' you mention.

 

[ndbprr]

I think the long term answer may be 3d printing for basic shells. I just read about a library that installed one for the use of their community. That makes costs manageable fo r most of us.

[doug u]

It would be nice if they made a more basic locomotive without all the superior detail. My 8 year old end up destroying all the extra detail on the locomotive.

[trwroute]

riogrande5761

 You said "continues to go south".  That is in error from all the news reports I have been listening to in the past 12 months or so.  What the economy "continues to do" is slowly recover although there have been recent signs of softening - being blamed on various things.  It would have been more correct for you to say "if the economy reverses and starts to go south"  I was listening to the national news yesterday and they said the US economy bottomed out around in 2009 and had been recovering since, especially in the past year or 18 months.

Interesting.  I learned something new today!

[rtstasiak]

"Necessity is the mother of invention" Long before Athearn shifted over to RTR, I built my collection of a particular diesel model around 4 or 5 chassis and 10 custom decorated shells for a "costume change."  I picked up a number of replacement parts for the drivetrains as well.  After 34 years, I'm replacing the Athearn chassis with Bachmann DCC innards, or remotoring / converting to DCC with Bachmann parts.  No hurry, just a couple of units at a time.  My layout toggles between DCC and DC and my receivers are all dual mode.  There is no interruption of model rail service for upgrades.

This works out to be a major cost savings because one chassis can represent two or more locomotives.  You would have to be pretty careful swapping shells for superdetailed models, but so far my mid-quality Athearn, Atlas, Proto, and Stewart models have survived a few swaps intact.

Just the way that I handle a few sticky situations.

Rich

 

 

[NittanyLion]

People seem to act like the old BBs are gone and buried never to be seen again.  Yes, they're not in production any more, but there's mountains of the things out in the show market.  I'm not a locomotive collector, so I only really buy what I need (or plan to need).  A couple years back...less than three because both happened at seperate Timonium shows and I didn't go to one until well after I moved to VA and that was late 2010, I picked up a BB GP38-2 and an undecorated AC4400CW.  A few months ago, I specifically went looking for a BB wide vision caboose so I could use it frame for a transfer caboose.  Not only did I fiind one, one vendor had so many I had my choice of roadnames.  Almost bought two only because I was amused at the idea of having an RF&P one to build as designed.  I think I picked a Chessie one to gut.  It was $5.

[bogp40]

hon30critter

Bob:

Thanks for that info regarding which drives will fit the Intermountain shell!

Dave

 

The Stewart, both Bowser or the Kato, use the window/ porthole glazing for the frame latches. This is where mods may be needed for a change out. I believe the Genesis/ highliner works the same.

[cx500]

To add to Dave Nelson's post a few back, the one shell fits all paint schemes of the old Athearn/ Atlas, etc, did provide a basic starting point.  But lots of serious modelers then went to work, removing inappropriate details and adding numerous detail parts, and maybe replacing the open frame motor with a can motor.  Finally time for painting and decaling.  By the time the project was finished, the total cost was often far higher than that of the basic model that we tend to remember.  And that faulty memory is probably because we didn't actually want to know how much extra we had to spend.

Modelers are a diverse lot.  Some enjoy the challenges of building and kitbashing accurately detailed locomotives and rolling stock while others enjoy protoypically based operations.  Both are model railroaders, as are all the other specialists within the hobby.  Being able to buy rolling stock with fine and correct details and paint right out of the box can be well worth the extra cost.  Not all of us have the skill level to achieve as good a result.  The time saved can be redirected into other enjoyable, for some more enjoyable, aspects of the hobby, whether operations, track laying, scenery, structures..... 

Mind you, there is still a place for the old Athearn BB style.  Delicately detailed models and small children are not always the wisest combination!

John

John

[hon30critter]

Bob:

Thanks for that info regarding which drives will fit the Intermountain shell!

Dave

[bogp40]

hon30critter

Unfortunately InterMountain seems to have discontinued their powered chassis, or at least the last time I looked on their web site I couldn't find them. Walthers doesn't list them anymore either. Too bad. I have an FP7 shell that needs one and eBay prices for complete locomotives are a bit high.

Dave

 

Dave, many other drives will fit that shell and most w/o any mods of very minor. The Regal drive is as good as the Stewart/ Bowser and is an easy fit. You still may be able to find the early Stewart/ Kato drive. Not sure of the Genesis drive being a drop on fit.

[BRAKIE]

dknelson

Jim Kelly once wrote that N scale was stunted for years for lack of an equivalent to Athearn. Dave Nelson

Old Jim was sadly mistaken or forgot about Atlas as the "Athearn" of  N Scale.Even today Atlas remains the biggest supplier of  N Scale and much like Athearn its not  hard  to find Atlas N Scale..

[dknelson]

It is easy to forget the growing chorus of bellyaching about how Athearn and others were simply putting paint schemes on one basic shell with no regard for prototype accuracy -- one headlight casing vs. two on the nose of the F, ignoring the "phases" of their various EMD and GE offering, and so on.  There was also grousing about Athearn never improving their somewhat iffy electrical contact system with that metal strip running the length of the interior and an L shaped piece of metal from the truck rubbing on it.  A variety of firms made money selling after-market improvements that Athearn itself could have introduced had it wanted to.

At the time guys said that the hobby would pay for quality as regards prototype specific details and paint schemes and I think they have been proven correct.  Knowing what we know now, it is astounding what the hobby has proven itself willing to pay for.

But it is true that Athearn offered medium to entry level trains well above mere trainset quality and today's market has something of a missing niche in that regard, unless you include the Walthers Trainline GP9M and similar models.  Jim Kelly once wrote that N scale was stunted for years for lack of an equivalent to Athearn.  

Dave Nelson

[riogrande5761]

ndbprr

You may see something if the economy continues to go further south. There will be many people looking for cheaper options.

You said "continues to go south".  That is in error from all the news reports I have been listening to in the past 12 months or so.  What the economy "continues to do" is slowly recover although there have been recent signs of softening - being blamed on various things.  It would have been more correct for you to say "if the economy reverses and starts to go south"  I was listening to the national news yesterday and they said the US economy bottomed out around in 2009 and had been recovering since, especially in the past year or 18 months.

Anyway, as long as there is a market, Athearn Genesis, ExactRail, Tangent and Intermountain will continue to turn out nice detailed models.  In the mean time cheaper options still exist on Ebay and at train shows.  As for in shops, again, it's been pointed out that the stuff the OP was nostalgic for would not be on the market at such cheap prices - with inflation and higher factory costs, those items will be more modestly priced than the highest detailed models but still not cheap either.  If cheap is the goal, visit the next train show that comes to your area ... lots of cheap kits in the $5-10 range.  LOTS.

[ruderunner]

As for basic how about Bachman?  They are now a serious player when it comes to functyion but still are pretty generic and plain in terms of details.  No they're not kits

Buy one and detial it to yor hearts content, RTR versions can be picked up for not much more than the old BB kits.

[ndbprr]

You may see something if the economy continues to go further south. There will be many people looking for cheaper options.

[BRAKIE]

Paul3

In actuality, building kits is not as old as the hobby.

Paul,O Scale Car kits and basic locomotive kits been around since Moses..I will agree one had to be highly skilled in order to build the locomotive kits.

The first model trains was RTR--Lionel not HO.HO is a johnny come lately since HO popularity didn't take hold until the early 50s even though HO been around since the 20s..It was considered to small by "serious" modelers.

 

As far as the early scratch builders I consider them true rivet counters since they counted the rivets before making the rivet indentions.

[Southgate]

Keep a sharp eye on the "bay", you can still pick up some deals on these. I still enjoy working on these the way you talk about. Still, I like my Atlas and P2k engines, and am willing to pay the extra for them. You can see why the market wouldn't support the old school ways. I think the new stuff out there is fantastic, by the way.

One deal I got recently was an Athearn GP 35. The seller knew nothing about it, described it as "Southern Pacific  6539", One blurry picture. Same seller was selling other locos this way, some were dummys, some runners, but no indication thereof, or brand. I chanced it, the wheels looked kinda gray, meaning it should be a runner. Road number 6539 means Athearn. Good runner after a cleanup and lube.

Ok, that's an exception, but watch long enough and you'll find deals. And enjoy the hobby at whatever level pleases you. Dan

[Darth Santa Fe]

I'm a kit builder. I like a lot of the RTR models from today, especially since they have a level of razor sharp detail, paint and lettering that I could never even hope to do so well on my own. But, I'll rarely pass up the chance to build a good kit, or even piece a model together and go so far as to make major parts from scratch. Those kits often cost as much or even more than the RTR models though, so I can't always justify it. I'd love to get my hands on an unbuilt Arbour Models steam engine kit.

[Paul3]

up831 wrote:
"Is there anyone else besides me that misses the inexpensive old Athearn type locomotive kits?"

Nope, not me.  I don't miss those at all.  I've been in the hobby seriously since 1990, and before that as a kid with trains in the basement, so I remember those days well.

"I for one am saddened to see this wonderful facet of the hobby wane."

Wonderful?  Yeah, if you like the same old generic, toy-like models in the same old semi-opaque paint schemes with the same old road numbers for decade after decade.  In yon olden days, one could go into any hobby shop in the entire country and find all the same models.  It didn't matter if you were in Boston, Chicago, or Los Angeles, they all had the same stock...because that's all there was.  I guess it was great if you modeled the ATSF, SP, or UP, but it pretty much stunk if you were a fan of smaller RR's.

 

As for the economic factor, at the time they killed off the BB kits, Athearn stated that the cost of making them would end up making them just as expensive as the RTR versions. 

 

For the part about drives...  This happened for years and years with undec.'s.  Remember "Chuck's Chop Shop"?  I know they made U18B shells to fit Athearn drives.  Same goes for Rail Power Products (since bought by Athearn) and Bowser (H16-44's fit on Athearn F-7A drives).  I even remember someone did FA-1's for Athearn drives.  Please note that all these shell-making companies are all now defunct.  Why?  Not because Athearn stopped making drives, but because people stopped buying undec. shells.  I seriously doubt anyone would get into that market again unless it was print on demand.

 

In actuality, building kits is not as old as the hobby.  For many years, it was a scratchbuilder's hobby peopled by machinists.  When kits first became available, they wrote nasty letters to the editor bemoaning how the wood and metal kit was ruining the hobby.   

 

Paul A. Cutler III

[BRAKIE]

up831

But, could there be any way those mechanisms could still be produced and offered on the market and allow other mfrs to offer the blank undecorated shells and detail parts? Since several locomotives have the same wheel base only a relatively few mechanisms would need to be available. (For example: GP-7’s, GP-9’s have the same wheel base.)

To answer your question Hobbytown Of Boston did that with their locomotive kits you bought the body,frame etc came in the body kit and of course you bought the drive kit later.

 

[hon30critter]

Unfortunately InterMountain seems to have discontinued their powered chassis, or at least the last time I looked on their web site I couldn't find them. Walthers doesn't list them anymore either. Too bad. I have an FP7 shell that needs one and eBay prices for complete locomotives are a bit high.

Dave

[riogrande5761]

up831

Is there anyone else besides me that misses the inexpensive old Athearn type locomotive kits?  I for one am saddened to see this wonderful facet of the hobby wane.

 

Those old kits were relatively dirt cheap and when detailed provided many hours of modeling satisfaction, not to mention sustaining the modeling economy.  (What has happened to all of those parts mfrs?)

 

Now, I don’t blame Athearn and the other mfrs for going the RTR route.  It is simply a matter of economics and they do have to pay attention to their bottom line.  That is reality. 

 

But, could there be any way those mechanisms could still be produced and offered on the market and allow other mfrs to offer the blank undecorated shells and detail parts?  Since several locomotives have the same wheel base only a relatively few mechanisms would need to be available.  (For example: GP-7’s, GP-9’s have the same wheel base.)

 

The shells could be devoid of precast grabs, etc.., with maybe little dimples in their place for drill guides.

 

Even though it would ultimately cost more if fully detailed, a modeler could do their kits for less expense in stages and stop or add at their discretion.  This could be done with steam kits as well.

 

I know this concept is as old as the hobby, but is there any way this vital and rewarding part of the hobby could be allowed to continue and thrive by making the mechanisms available again?

 

Does anyone else share this opinion?

 

It sounds like you have a fairly rose colored nostagia for the past.  Nothing wrong with that but as others have pointed out, if Athearn did produce those blue box kit engines today you would be very disappointed with the prices.

 

But there is a silver lining.  If you go to some large train shows, you should be able to fulfill your nostalgic longings as you should be able to find old Athearn locomotive and freight car kits available.  So there is no need to be sad.  Just get yourself to a good sized train show and you should be in good shape.  Lots of older Athearn kits stuff at those shows.

[jrbernier]

Inflation - a $32 model in 1970 now would sell for $100 2014 dollars.  You can buy lots of Atlas Trainman or Athearn RTR engines for that price or less....

  Unless you are into 'Barn Finds' at estate sales/flea markets/train shows, and want to do the work to get them running again - The above option makes more sense.

  I had a good sized fleet of Athearn GP9's, SD7's and F units.  All were upgraded with n/s wheels, re-wired, detailed, painted/decaled/weathered.  When the P2K Geeps and SD's came out in the 90's, I bought heavy and started over.  All of my old 'BB' engines have been sold off at local train meets or on eBay.  The new stuff runs so much better and has correct width hoods as well.

Jim

[richhotrain]

Can you really blame today's modelers for preferring RTR over the kit?  

Isn't it just part of the evolution of the hobby?

Like so many other developments in every aspect of modern life, technological developments render prior methodologies antiquated.

At one time, the tooling and the technologies may not have been developed to a point that they are today, so kits were probably the way to go to construct a highly detailed loco.  Not so today.

As for me, having entered the hobby just 10 years ago, I don't miss what I never had.

Rich