QUOTE: The Bachmann DCC "Myth"? Some of the responses to the "Has anyone tried the new Bachmann DCC" thread seem to try to belittle it claiming "limited loco use". Apparently it can control 10 locos or consists at once. So, my question is, how many operators do you use on a regular basis and how many locos or consists do you run at once? I am guessing that most people that have "home based" layouts will probably fit category 3, but hey, tell me I am wrong, OK? Oh, I forgot. No flame wars, OK? I am not trying to judge
QUOTE: "DON, you ASSume I want some "friends" over to run trains. That is not the case".
QUOTE: My layout is for ME. No photos, no viewings, just for me. I don't care what other people have to say about it, pro or con. It is 100% self satisfaction. i don't need to impress anyone but myself.
QUOTE: Originally posted by dkelly Rex, Tony's also has a very informative website, filled with reviews, comparison charts, tips etc etc. While I have not dealt with them directly, their website seems to take a very objective approach, not favoring any one system over another. Are they the same "live"?
The original MRC Prodigy (not the new Prodigy Advanced) just had the dial to sleect 1 of 16 locos. On systems like that, you have to remember somehow that 4-6-0 #1843 is #5 ont he controller, and 2-4-0 #3281 is number 9, etc. I'm sorry, this does NOT make it easier for beginners. I'm a beginner. I have two locos right now, looking at a third. I have enough brain cells left from adolescence to remember that the BL2 is number 1. The SW1200 is number 2. The Mikado is number 3. I'm nowhere near the point of worrying about identifying engines by road number. And when things get really hairy, there's always pen and paper ( costs almost a dollar) to make a little chart I can reference when the cobwebs are clogging my memory. Yes, I see your point, but it's not a problem right now. Reply Edit rexhea Member sinceJuly 2004 From: Southeast U.S.A. 851 posts Posted by rexhea on Wednesday, October 6, 2004 10:57 AM dkelly, The first thing I bought, before I put up the first board on the benchwork, was a DCC system. I did a careful reseach and chose Digitrax over other very good systems. I learned from years experience in other things that "if you don't have a solid foundation, your building will eventually crumble". In other words, one day you will run out of capability to run your loco's like you want. Then it won't matter how many or how fancy of locomotives you have, they will either sit like a collector's roster or you will be unhappy with their performance. Then you end up spending more money on another system and setting up again. Just look at your power system as the heart of your entire layout. If it's weak, then your layout will be too. I know all about the temptations of a new release or limited issue. I wasn't going to buy any more loco's for a few months then: there was the BLI E7's, then the Atlas Gold SD24's and away I go. But, would you believe I am still waiting for them to ship. D....n ! I sure get frustrated with these so called release dates.[:(] What ever direction you choose, Happy Railroading! REX Rex "Blue Creek & Warrior Railways" http://www.railimages.com/gallery/rexheacock Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, October 6, 2004 9:36 AM rexhea, I hate limited edition locomotives. It makes it very difficult to plan my hobby budget in advance. Every time I think I've gotten a plan in place either a manufacturer comes out with something new that I don't want to miss, or I find something on ebay that I have missed previously and there goes my monthly budget! That is what makes the Bachmann system very attractive. But, if what joe says is correct (and I think he is), I'll probably be looking at either Digitrax or Lenz (MRC Advanced Prodigy might make the finalists also). Too bad there isn't a way to upgrade the thing or at least up the power to the tracks. Reply Edit rexhea Member sinceJuly 2004 From: Southeast U.S.A. 851 posts Posted by rexhea on Tuesday, October 5, 2004 11:02 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by rrinker QUOTE: Originally posted by bcammack QUOTE: Originally posted by rexhea Unless a person is only looking at a layout as a novelty, I think it's a mistake to purchase a system that cannot be power expanded or have the capabilities that you may want in the future--regardless of cost But could one not make the same argument that one should skip the small, "starter" layout and begin at once building a large, complex layout? [:)] I don't think that's what anyone's trying to say. No, what is being said is more like the idea of building a small layout first, but one that has room to add on once you have the time/skill/money to do so. See for example Tony Koester's sidebar in MRP 2004 in the article on the 4x8 S scale layout. rrinker Yes, that is correct. If at all possible, don't back yourself in a corner with no where to go. Model Railroading is a life long hobby that is endless in possibilities. That very difinitely applys to track layout size and operations. If you envision that one day you will be able to have more, better, or bigger, then you should grin and bear the pain until you can have a basic control system that will have the capabilities to grow with your layout. The difference in price isn't that great, but the difference in performance and operational capabilities are. dkelly How right you are about the fancy loco not being there tomorrow[:(]. It didn't take me long to learn that in this hobby you eat while the food is hot because there won't be anything left later.[:D] Rex "Blue Creek & Warrior Railways" http://www.railimages.com/gallery/rexheacock Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, October 5, 2004 10:47 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by dkelly This 1 amp thing seems to be a major down check for the Bachmann system. I can live with the others, I think. I do have a question. I've noticed that several of the other systems have numerous boosters or different power supplies ie: 5, 8 and 10 amp. What exactly is that for? Tony's website discusses placing a booster between the command center and the layout. Can this be done with the Bachmann? Boosters are basically add-on DCC power supplies for your track. They let you divide your layout into multiple power districts so you can run more locos at the same time. For example, say you have a very busy yard with trains coming and going and a switcher or two moving cars around and a roundhouse with locos idling away -- that could easily draw most if not all of your available power, leaving nothing to run trains on the mainline, let alone at another yard at the other end of the line. But if you put a booster on the yard, connected to the command station via whatever command link the particular vendor uses, and keep the command station/booster on the mainline, you now have more power to operate trains in both places. Whether you can add boosters to the Bachmann DCC or not is an unknown at this point, though I suspect not from what little I've read about it in their ad in the November MR. Reply Edit rrinker Member sinceFebruary 2002 From: Reading, PA 30,002 posts Posted by rrinker on Tuesday, October 5, 2004 4:29 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by bcammack QUOTE: Originally posted by rexhea Unless a person is only looking at a layout as a novelty, I think it's a mistake to purchase a system that cannot be power expanded or have the capabilities that you may want in the future--regardless of cost But could one not make the same argument that one should skip the small, "starter" layout and begin at once building a large, complex layout? [:)] I don't think that's what anyone's trying to say. No, what is being said is more like the idea of building a small layout first, but one that has room to add on once you have the time/skill/money to do so. See for example Tony Koester's sidebar in MRP 2004 in the article on the 4x8 S scale layout. Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more. Reply jfugate Member sinceJanuary 2002 From: Portland, OR 3,119 posts Posted by jfugate on Tuesday, October 5, 2004 4:07 PM On my HO Siskiyou Line I have from 6-12 operators at a time, and we have from 4-6 trains active at a time, some with helper crews, and loco lashups of 2-4 locos. We use 2 person crews, plus a helper crew if helpers are involved. Multiply that all out and you can have 25-50 locos active on the layout at a time, with at least 12 loco consists active. Also there are 1-2 switchers active in each of the two main yards, which means another 4 loco consists, for at least 16. Each loco lashup probably draws up to an amp, so there could be 16 amps total feeding the layout at a given time. However, to keep the likelihood of welding something to the rails low, I believe in lots of low amp train blocks. I prefer boosters in the 3 amp range, and just bust the layout up more so the likelihood of any one train block having a lot of locos in it drawing amps is low. For a small layout, the Bachman DCC unit might work, but not on the Siskiyou Line. For me features matter most, which is why I went with EasyDCC wireless. Joe Fugate Modeling the 1980s SP Siskiyou Line in southern Oregon Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, October 5, 2004 3:54 PM This 1 amp thing seems to be a major down check for the Bachmann system. I can live with the others, I think. I do have a question. I've noticed that several of the other systems have numerous boosters or different power supplies ie: 5, 8 and 10 amp. What exactly is that for? Tony's website discusses placing a booster between the command center and the layout. Can this be done with the Bachmann? Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, October 5, 2004 3:20 PM I voted, like the majority so far, as being a sole operator with less than 10 locos which I interpret as being in operation at one time, though in fact, is about the number I picture sitting on my moderate sized home layout at one time. I only picture two or three operating at the same time, and then only occasionaly. This isn't necessarily a vote in favor of Bachmann over MRC or Digitrax or NCE but I think I'll try this system since I have simple needs and and it appears to offer everything I currently need. It looks like an easy intro into DCC for a moderate sized but simple home layout. (It still hasn't been made clear why the size of the layout as opposed to it's complexity is a factor.) If I were running a club layout with more than 10 operators, I wouldn't buy it. If I needed more features than it offers, I wouldn't buy it. If I needed more power than it offers, I wouldn't buy it. If I needed to roam around further than it's tether restricts me I wouldn't buy it If I thought I wouldn't be able to resell it after trying it and outgrowing it, I wouldn't buy it. If I drove a Lexus instead of a Dodge, I probably wouldn't buy it but not for any logical reason. What I won't do is not consider it based on reasons that don't apply to my situation offered by those who haven't tried it. If and when I'm not happy about my decision, I'll report back. :) Wayne Reply Edit 12345 Subscriber & Member Login Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more! Login Register Users Online There are no community member online Search the Community ADVERTISEMENT ADVERTISEMENT ADVERTISEMENT Model Railroader Newsletter See all Sign up for our FREE e-newsletter and get model railroad news in your inbox! Sign up
I'm a beginner. I have two locos right now, looking at a third. I have enough brain cells left from adolescence to remember that the BL2 is number 1. The SW1200 is number 2. The Mikado is number 3. I'm nowhere near the point of worrying about identifying engines by road number. And when things get really hairy, there's always pen and paper ( costs almost a dollar) to make a little chart I can reference when the cobwebs are clogging my memory. Yes, I see your point, but it's not a problem right now. Reply Edit rexhea Member sinceJuly 2004 From: Southeast U.S.A. 851 posts Posted by rexhea on Wednesday, October 6, 2004 10:57 AM dkelly, The first thing I bought, before I put up the first board on the benchwork, was a DCC system. I did a careful reseach and chose Digitrax over other very good systems. I learned from years experience in other things that "if you don't have a solid foundation, your building will eventually crumble". In other words, one day you will run out of capability to run your loco's like you want. Then it won't matter how many or how fancy of locomotives you have, they will either sit like a collector's roster or you will be unhappy with their performance. Then you end up spending more money on another system and setting up again. Just look at your power system as the heart of your entire layout. If it's weak, then your layout will be too. I know all about the temptations of a new release or limited issue. I wasn't going to buy any more loco's for a few months then: there was the BLI E7's, then the Atlas Gold SD24's and away I go. But, would you believe I am still waiting for them to ship. D....n ! I sure get frustrated with these so called release dates.[:(] What ever direction you choose, Happy Railroading! REX Rex "Blue Creek & Warrior Railways" http://www.railimages.com/gallery/rexheacock Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, October 6, 2004 9:36 AM rexhea, I hate limited edition locomotives. It makes it very difficult to plan my hobby budget in advance. Every time I think I've gotten a plan in place either a manufacturer comes out with something new that I don't want to miss, or I find something on ebay that I have missed previously and there goes my monthly budget! That is what makes the Bachmann system very attractive. But, if what joe says is correct (and I think he is), I'll probably be looking at either Digitrax or Lenz (MRC Advanced Prodigy might make the finalists also). Too bad there isn't a way to upgrade the thing or at least up the power to the tracks. Reply Edit rexhea Member sinceJuly 2004 From: Southeast U.S.A. 851 posts Posted by rexhea on Tuesday, October 5, 2004 11:02 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by rrinker QUOTE: Originally posted by bcammack QUOTE: Originally posted by rexhea Unless a person is only looking at a layout as a novelty, I think it's a mistake to purchase a system that cannot be power expanded or have the capabilities that you may want in the future--regardless of cost But could one not make the same argument that one should skip the small, "starter" layout and begin at once building a large, complex layout? [:)] I don't think that's what anyone's trying to say. No, what is being said is more like the idea of building a small layout first, but one that has room to add on once you have the time/skill/money to do so. See for example Tony Koester's sidebar in MRP 2004 in the article on the 4x8 S scale layout. rrinker Yes, that is correct. If at all possible, don't back yourself in a corner with no where to go. Model Railroading is a life long hobby that is endless in possibilities. That very difinitely applys to track layout size and operations. If you envision that one day you will be able to have more, better, or bigger, then you should grin and bear the pain until you can have a basic control system that will have the capabilities to grow with your layout. The difference in price isn't that great, but the difference in performance and operational capabilities are. dkelly How right you are about the fancy loco not being there tomorrow[:(]. It didn't take me long to learn that in this hobby you eat while the food is hot because there won't be anything left later.[:D] Rex "Blue Creek & Warrior Railways" http://www.railimages.com/gallery/rexheacock Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, October 5, 2004 10:47 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by dkelly This 1 amp thing seems to be a major down check for the Bachmann system. I can live with the others, I think. I do have a question. I've noticed that several of the other systems have numerous boosters or different power supplies ie: 5, 8 and 10 amp. What exactly is that for? Tony's website discusses placing a booster between the command center and the layout. Can this be done with the Bachmann? Boosters are basically add-on DCC power supplies for your track. They let you divide your layout into multiple power districts so you can run more locos at the same time. For example, say you have a very busy yard with trains coming and going and a switcher or two moving cars around and a roundhouse with locos idling away -- that could easily draw most if not all of your available power, leaving nothing to run trains on the mainline, let alone at another yard at the other end of the line. But if you put a booster on the yard, connected to the command station via whatever command link the particular vendor uses, and keep the command station/booster on the mainline, you now have more power to operate trains in both places. Whether you can add boosters to the Bachmann DCC or not is an unknown at this point, though I suspect not from what little I've read about it in their ad in the November MR. Reply Edit rrinker Member sinceFebruary 2002 From: Reading, PA 30,002 posts Posted by rrinker on Tuesday, October 5, 2004 4:29 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by bcammack QUOTE: Originally posted by rexhea Unless a person is only looking at a layout as a novelty, I think it's a mistake to purchase a system that cannot be power expanded or have the capabilities that you may want in the future--regardless of cost But could one not make the same argument that one should skip the small, "starter" layout and begin at once building a large, complex layout? [:)] I don't think that's what anyone's trying to say. No, what is being said is more like the idea of building a small layout first, but one that has room to add on once you have the time/skill/money to do so. See for example Tony Koester's sidebar in MRP 2004 in the article on the 4x8 S scale layout. Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more. Reply jfugate Member sinceJanuary 2002 From: Portland, OR 3,119 posts Posted by jfugate on Tuesday, October 5, 2004 4:07 PM On my HO Siskiyou Line I have from 6-12 operators at a time, and we have from 4-6 trains active at a time, some with helper crews, and loco lashups of 2-4 locos. We use 2 person crews, plus a helper crew if helpers are involved. Multiply that all out and you can have 25-50 locos active on the layout at a time, with at least 12 loco consists active. Also there are 1-2 switchers active in each of the two main yards, which means another 4 loco consists, for at least 16. Each loco lashup probably draws up to an amp, so there could be 16 amps total feeding the layout at a given time. However, to keep the likelihood of welding something to the rails low, I believe in lots of low amp train blocks. I prefer boosters in the 3 amp range, and just bust the layout up more so the likelihood of any one train block having a lot of locos in it drawing amps is low. For a small layout, the Bachman DCC unit might work, but not on the Siskiyou Line. For me features matter most, which is why I went with EasyDCC wireless. Joe Fugate Modeling the 1980s SP Siskiyou Line in southern Oregon Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, October 5, 2004 3:54 PM This 1 amp thing seems to be a major down check for the Bachmann system. I can live with the others, I think. I do have a question. I've noticed that several of the other systems have numerous boosters or different power supplies ie: 5, 8 and 10 amp. What exactly is that for? Tony's website discusses placing a booster between the command center and the layout. Can this be done with the Bachmann? Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, October 5, 2004 3:20 PM I voted, like the majority so far, as being a sole operator with less than 10 locos which I interpret as being in operation at one time, though in fact, is about the number I picture sitting on my moderate sized home layout at one time. I only picture two or three operating at the same time, and then only occasionaly. This isn't necessarily a vote in favor of Bachmann over MRC or Digitrax or NCE but I think I'll try this system since I have simple needs and and it appears to offer everything I currently need. It looks like an easy intro into DCC for a moderate sized but simple home layout. (It still hasn't been made clear why the size of the layout as opposed to it's complexity is a factor.) If I were running a club layout with more than 10 operators, I wouldn't buy it. If I needed more features than it offers, I wouldn't buy it. If I needed more power than it offers, I wouldn't buy it. If I needed to roam around further than it's tether restricts me I wouldn't buy it If I thought I wouldn't be able to resell it after trying it and outgrowing it, I wouldn't buy it. If I drove a Lexus instead of a Dodge, I probably wouldn't buy it but not for any logical reason. What I won't do is not consider it based on reasons that don't apply to my situation offered by those who haven't tried it. If and when I'm not happy about my decision, I'll report back. :) Wayne Reply Edit 12345 Subscriber & Member Login Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more! Login Register Users Online There are no community member online Search the Community ADVERTISEMENT ADVERTISEMENT ADVERTISEMENT Model Railroader Newsletter See all Sign up for our FREE e-newsletter and get model railroad news in your inbox! Sign up
QUOTE: Originally posted by rrinker QUOTE: Originally posted by bcammack QUOTE: Originally posted by rexhea Unless a person is only looking at a layout as a novelty, I think it's a mistake to purchase a system that cannot be power expanded or have the capabilities that you may want in the future--regardless of cost But could one not make the same argument that one should skip the small, "starter" layout and begin at once building a large, complex layout? [:)] I don't think that's what anyone's trying to say. No, what is being said is more like the idea of building a small layout first, but one that has room to add on once you have the time/skill/money to do so. See for example Tony Koester's sidebar in MRP 2004 in the article on the 4x8 S scale layout.
QUOTE: Originally posted by bcammack QUOTE: Originally posted by rexhea Unless a person is only looking at a layout as a novelty, I think it's a mistake to purchase a system that cannot be power expanded or have the capabilities that you may want in the future--regardless of cost But could one not make the same argument that one should skip the small, "starter" layout and begin at once building a large, complex layout? [:)]
QUOTE: Originally posted by rexhea Unless a person is only looking at a layout as a novelty, I think it's a mistake to purchase a system that cannot be power expanded or have the capabilities that you may want in the future--regardless of cost
QUOTE: Originally posted by dkelly This 1 amp thing seems to be a major down check for the Bachmann system. I can live with the others, I think. I do have a question. I've noticed that several of the other systems have numerous boosters or different power supplies ie: 5, 8 and 10 amp. What exactly is that for? Tony's website discusses placing a booster between the command center and the layout. Can this be done with the Bachmann?
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Joe Fugate Modeling the 1980s SP Siskiyou Line in southern Oregon