Modeling advise getting harder to come by.

[n2mopac]

I am noticing a trend on this forum lately. I first must say that I enjoy this forum immensely and I have been here since its very beginning. But I have noticed that real modeling help is getting harder to find here. Look at the topics and the number of replies. Topics like "What am I?" and "The coffee shop" and some gossip topics (what I affectionallycall fluff) get huge numbers while real modeling querries get 2 or 4 posts. Now WAIT, before we start a flame war here, I am not against those topics. In fact I participte in them some myself, I just hope that they do not overwhelm the forum to the point that people who come here for real help with their model railroads do not find the help the want and need.

What I am saying is this, enjoy the fluff topics, but take time to put your 2 cents worth in when someone is looking for some ideal, advice, or real modeling help. That is, I think, what this forum was created for. I'm sure I'll get no end of replies here from those who think I am persecuting them or infringing on their first amendment rights of some other rediculous thing. Well, that's not my intent. Just trying ton encourage a well rounded forum where we can find leisure and helpful information all in one place.

Ron

[StillGrande]

"Real" questions on modeling are generally answered in 2-3 posts, with a thanks or whatnot as the final post. "Fluff" lets everyone have a say, and say it they do.

Because of these trends, modeling tips tend to sink while "fluff" tends to remain near the top for a while.

What helps everyone is when you have a question, put in in the topic title instead of "I have a question" or "Newby with a question". Not only do people know what you want, but others can find it through a search of the topics much easier.

I like the "fluff". There is some interesting reading there on occasion, and sometimes I might even learn something.

[vsmith]

Well there are only 2 other parts of this forum devoted to prototype modeling and layout building. Maybe the answer is a new Specific "Modeling, Scratbuilding and Kitbashing" forum?

Over on the Garden Railroad forum there are seperate forums for general discussion, R/C, layout building, live steam, AND scratchbuilding and kitbashing. Yet here we are still cramming every subject into the General Discussion catagory, maybe its time for a change?

BERGIE how about adding a new "Modeling, Scratbuilding and Kitbashing" forum for MR?

Might help to seperate the wheat from the chaff here.

[Isambard]

QUOTE: Originally posted by n2mopac

I am noticing a trend on this forum lately. I first must say that I enjoy this forum immensely and I have been here since its very beginning. But I have noticed that real modeling help is getting harder to find here. Look at the topics and the number of replies. Topics like "What am I?" and "The coffee shop" and some gossip topics (what I affectionallycall fluff) get huge numbers while real modeling querries get 2 or 4 posts. Now WAIT, before we start a flame war here, I am not against those topics. In fact I participte in them some myself, I just hope that they do not overwhelm the forum to the point that people who come here for real help with their model railroads do not find the help the want and need.

What I am saying is this, enjoy the fluff topics, but take time to put your 2 cents worth in when someone is looking for some ideal, advice, or real modeling help. That is, I think, what this forum was created for. I'm sure I'll get no end of replies here from those who think I am persecuting them or infringing on their first amendment rights of some other rediculous thing. Well, that's not my intent. Just trying ton encourage a well rounded forum where we can find leisure and helpful information all in one place.

Ron

I've observed the same trend Ron and agree with you. While I do read some of the fluffy stuff I take a pass of most of it in favour of look for topics that have some meat to them.

My impression from the appalling spelling and grammar that shows up in many of the fluff threads is that there are some who use the forum to fill their idle time (and brains) with such stuff, who might be better off doing something more creative and educational. To me it's on a par with watching junk-TV and spending time talking about it.
As a result I've been spending more of my on-line time with several other model railroader and train forums, which appear to draw more serious participants.
But, I'm certainly not going to abandon this forum, I do find enough nuggets amongst the dross to keep me happy. To name a few, contributors such as Orsonroy, andrechapelon and JDBarney are invaluable!
That's my rant for the day. Happy model railroading!
[:)]

[egmurphy]

Ron

I might agree that there have been more general interest topics than requests for modeling help, but I’m not sure I have seen many posts looking for info or assistance that have not been adequately responded to. Of course, that may have occurred on threads that I didn’t read due to lack of knowledge or interest (for example, I seldom open threads related to DCC). I don’t think you can relate the number of posts on a topic to whether the question was satisfied or not. Sometimes one good response can do it, while other times the question gets discussed at length. Are there any threads or questions in particular that you think were neglected?

I think that the apparent recent trend in more polls/less queries might have also have been influenced because a lot of old general interest/poll threads have been recently resurfaced because some posters are going through the back threads and replying to polls/posts that are months old. By the way, I think that’s good since a lot of those threads are getting seen by people who weren’t around when the threads were originally raised. But it may also tend to shift the impression that there have been more of these type threads lately.

The topics with huge numbers of posts (like Coffee Shop and What Am I) tend to be the long running threads. For example, Coffee Shop has now been running for 5 months. While it has 2,250 posts, that works out to only an average of 15 per day. Since there are probably at least 15-20 regulars who visit/hang out there, that works out to an average of only about 1 post per day per regular. Yes, I know that some there (like me) post more than once a day, but others, like Fergmeister, didn’t get to 1000 posts by only posting on the Coffee Shop thread. In fact, the posters who seem more active over there are usually also active in responding to modeling type questions on other threads. Oh, and by the way, we actually discuss model railroading occasionally over there. [:D]

Another thought is that a lot of query type questions show up over on the Layout Building forum. I drop in there regularly and also have not noticed threads going without at least a decent number of responses over there.

“Just trying to encourage a well rounded forum where we can find leisure and helpful information all in one place.” I’m with you 100%. Our only difference may be one of perception of the state of the board. Of course, you’ve been here longer than I have, so maybe the shift you’ve noticed is more obvious over the long period, while I only have a 4-5 month history to look back on and compare to.

Best regards

Ed

[Anonymous]

I think the reason people use this forum to post modeling questions, as opposed to using the layout building and Prototype forums, is that the General Discussion forum gets a LOT more traffic, and therefore a broader exposure and wider range of answers. I've posted several questions here recently that could be classified under the other forums, but I knew I'd get better, faster response by using this one.

If MR created a specific modeling questions forum, I'm not sure it would change the above state of reality. It would quite possibly become another niche forum that those looking for the widest response possible would tend to bypass.

That's my [2c]

[AntonioFP45]

One thing I used to do up until recently: I would go look at some past topics, let's say way back on page 58 or further that are "Modeling Question" related. This includes ones I started and bring them up to the front page.

I noticed then that some of the newbies that had joined recently would benefit from them. I also update topics that "I think" would be beneficial like my "Passenger Car" interior color posts. Especially since the Walther's cars hit the scene, more modelers are now interested in making the inside look just as good as the outside.

Sometimes though when this is done, whether by me or other posters, several comments come in like: "Wow! Who dug up this old topic?!" or something along those lines. I realize that doesn't matter. If it helps a modeler, even one......then go for it!

One more thing that can happen also that I learned the hardway with some posters that ask modeling related questions: If you don't give them the info they're seeking and just give them a suggestion that in all honesty could have been a little better researched, you may get Blowtorched for it by the frustrated poster. [:(!] Doesn't happen too often though as most of the time they're appreciative.[:D][8D]

Cheers!

[n2mopac]

Dewey: I certainly agree about topic titles. I have railed on that subject here several times before. Meaningless subject titles are a pet peece. An I'm not saying I dislike the "fluff," I just like to balance it with more substance.

vsmith: sounds like a good idea. If it happens, I hope these aren't ignored like some other forums are here--abandoned for the higher traffic of the general topics forum.

Ed: I suppose that some questions might be answered in 2 or 3 posts. I suppose what I'm hoping for is to get a greater variety of approachs to a particular problem. Just seems like these questiions don't get the intereste response that they once did. I am well aware that some of the threads are long standing, but at 15 posts a day, the coffee shop gets more response than almost any substantive topic you see here.

As I stated above, I have participated in the "fluff" topics as well (I really don't mean that term to sound offensive). I have given up the coffee shop because I don't have the time to spend reading all of the posts and I couldn't keep with everyone's gossip there. It wasn't for me. I'm not saying it shouldn't exist. I would just like to see a greater number and variety of responses to substantive questions

BY THE WAY, whoever it was (I forgot now) who mentioned above the spelllling and grammmarrr of them that use this here forum and othrs (that was intentional), I get in a hurry here and may often make spelling mistakes. I wouldn't judge anyone's intelligence level by that. Its the nature of web posting everywhere.

Ron

[Anonymous]

Another thing I have noticed is that for some posts like, "How do I make Scenery" (A post I noticed a recently) is that while there may be two or three diffrent ways for making the substructure. All the above the hard shell stuff is done pretty much the same way, wheather you are using natural tree armatures, home made ones, or the exellent ones made by Woodland Scenics and others.

Another example, How many ways are their to lay track? Only two that I know of, Pre-manufactured, (Sectional and Flex Track) and Hand Laid. And unless your using some obscure rail code, (Like 60 in HO scale) chances are you a re using the pre-manufactured method.

Painting questions could take a little longer to answer, as I am aware of three primary methods to paint stuff. Hand Brushing, Airbrushing Solvents, Air Brushing Acrylics. And a post about that could take a few replies.

I agree In that I would like to see more modeling related content here as well, and I am doing my best to try and supply some. For example my recent post about a brewery complex I am designing, simply titled BEER!! However I am in my last semester of college and my modeling time has fallen down to meer minuts per week VS. the Hours and Hours I used to enjoy before college. I plan to put more modeling stuff up in the future, But I need the free time to do the modeling first.

Just my two cents worth. And Remember The fluff (or the Cream as like to think of it) serves to remind us that this truely is a hobby, and Its OK to make things as whimsical or as prototypical as you like.

James

[Fergmiester]

There is another side to this and that is when someone asks a question someone always comes back and says " Have you done search on the Forum?!"

I've used search before and it sometimes it doesn't give me what I know what has been asked in the past. I hate when someone tells me "Go search" for the sake of saying it.

or

Maybe alot of people aren't asking questions anymore because we have a huge resource in the archives and their questions have already been answered.

or

It's been summer time and for the most part, with the exception of the die hards, people have taken a break and will only get back into it once the cold weather forces them indoors or they realize the hockey season has been cancelled. Oh did I say that!

[jfugate]

With modeling questions, the person needs to feel they have experience with the issue to post something useful. With open-ended topics, anyone can (and does) post.

It's posts that keep a topic on the first page or two, and those are the topics that get all the attention.

There's another dynamic too.

A good answer to open ended questions like "how do I do model scenery?" Could fill volumes. And a largely text-based forum really isn't even the best place to get answers. Visual presentation with photos and video clips is the real answer.

Text is largely passe' to the current generation. Tomorrow's medium is going to be multimedia over the internet. I say tomorrow because the technology isn't quite here yet to allow great looking streaming video over the internet. It's here in measure, but hardly what I would call being exploited.

The internet is largely a visual medium, and the really clever ones take advantage of that. I'm amazed at how many web sites are mostly text with few, if any, photos. Even my own web site is guilty of that charge (I'm working on a serious upgrade to the site, however), and the search engines generally don't index non-text media very well (like flash, for example).

We'll see who gets it and who doesn't in the months and years to come, aye?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: There is another side to this and that is when someone asks a question someone always comes back and says " Have you done search on the Forum?!"

I've used search before and it sometimes it doesn't give me what I know what has been asked in the past. I hate when someone tells me "Go search" for the sake of saying it.

truuuuuuue! Had that happen to me the other day on a question about airbrushes. Someone told me to search the forum because it had been discussed many times before. I did a search for the word 'airbrush' and none gave me the info I was looking for. Only when someone else gave me a few helpful web links was I able to get some answers. So rather than just telling people "GO SEARCH THE FORUM YOU MORONIC NEWBIE !!! [banghead][banghead], give them a link or two [:)]

[Anonymous]

There is another advantage of topics being posted for a second or even third time. Let's say, to use yankees example, a total expert on airbrushes joins the forum. If he or she sees yankee's question at the top of the list, he or she could provide the exact answer to the question which will in turn help numerous modelers I'm sure. I doubt very much that that person would search old topics looking for something that he or she could answer.

[Fergmiester]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dkelly

There is another advantage of topics being posted for a second or even third time. Let's say, to use yankees example, a total expert on airbrushes joins the forum. If he or she sees yankee's question at the top of the list, he or she could provide the exact answer to the question which will in turn help numerous modelers I'm sure. I doubt very much that that person would search old topics looking for something that he or she could answer.

Good Point Dave

Let's go one further. yes many of the questions have already been asked, but people come up with new solutions daily that haven't been posted before or new technology is there, which makes it easier than before.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE:
My impression from the appalling spelling and grammar that shows up in many of the fluff threads is that there are some who use the forum to fill their idle time (and brains) with such stuff, who might be better off doing something more creative and educational. To me it's on a par with watching junk-TV and spending time talking about it.

This even shows up in this thread - it should be looking for ADVICE and not advise! [V]

Bob Boudreau

[Anonymous]

Good catch Bob!!!! The quote you posted also seems to have a bit of a run-on sentence lol. Oh heck . . .we're all here to have fun!

[Isambard]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dkelly

Good catch Bob!!!! The quote you posted also seems to have a bit of a run-on sentence lol. Oh heck . . .we're all here to have fun!

I'll have to watch my tendency towards run-on sentences, particularly when I'm ranting about other's and their aweful speling and grammer and stuf like that and accept yhat many are in a hurrey and this forum duzzn't have a spel chequer, and recognise that weer all in it to have phun, eh?
[:D]

[dknelson]

One pet peeve I have is that people do not use helpful titles for their subject on their posts. Things like "A question" do not invite as much attention as "A question about scenery" So if someone feels real modeling questions are ignored, it might be the subject heading does not invite review. Just a thought.
Speaking as someone who probably posts far too many replies to modeling questions in this forum .... it is sometimes difficult to understand or visualize the problem, and it can also be hard to articulate a useful answer. It would be so simple if you could just be THERE to see the problem and assist with a possible solution. Even over the phone could be easier than cold hard print. Real masters of understanding the questions and crafting a helpful response, such as Jim Hediger, write for MR while we amateurs struggle here in the forum.
But we do our best.
Speaking of not understanding ... I think I have as good a sense of humor as the next person ... but lately I fail to see even a speck of humor in the cartoons in MR. The one in the November issue has the additional problem of not being able to tell from the drawing if the husband or the wife is speaking the caption -- but regardless there is zero humor in it. None. Zippo. It isn't offensive. It isn't childish. It just isn't funny.
Dave Nelson

[railman]

I'd say that it is somewhat disapointing that detailed questions only get a few bites...this maybe isn't such a bad thing. While all of us are experts on our own railroad, when someone asks for help, you want to be able to add something constructive to the discussion.

This reminds me of something my old HS shop teacher once said before starting a lecture on electrical wiring-and how the knowlege we'd gain would make us pocket experts, but to not over reach;

"I only know enough to burn my own house down."

[Anonymous]

QUOTE:
I'll have to watch my tendency towards run-on sentences, particularly when I'm ranting about other's and their aweful speling and grammer and stuf like that and accept yhat many are in a hurrey and this forum duzzn't have a spel chequer, and recognise that weer all in it to have phun, eh?

Spell checker? Mine OK'd this:

Eye halve a spelling chequer
It came with my pea sea
It plainly marques four my revue
Miss steaks eye kin knot sea.
Eye strike a key and type a word
And weight four it two say
Weather eye am wrong oar write
It shows me strait a weigh.
As soon as a mist ache is maid
It nose bee four two long
And eye can put the error rite
Its rare lea ever wrong.
Eye have run this poem threw it
Eye am shore your pleased two no
Its letter perfect awl the weigh
My chequer tolled me sew.


Bob Boudreau [:D] [:D]

[davekelly]

Isambard,

No problem guy! I have a tendency to do the same and well, my spelling and typing skills can be sometimes big time deficient. I'm glad you saw my post in the spirit it was meant. When I lose the ability to laugh at myself . . . well, you can bury me six feet under! It seems there are days I do a bazillion things that if I didn't laugh at, I'd end up crying!!

Dave

[Isambard]

QUOTE: Originally posted by FundyNorthern

QUOTE:
I'll have to watch my tendency towards run-on sentences, particularly when I'm ranting about other's and their aweful speling and grammer and stuf like that and accept yhat many are in a hurrey and this forum duzzn't have a spel chequer, and recognise that weer all in it to have phun, eh?

Spell checker? Mine OK'd this:

Eye halve a spelling chequer
It came with my pea sea
It plainly marques four my revue
Miss steaks eye kin knot sea.
Eye strike a key and type a word
And weight four it two say
Weather eye am wrong oar write
It shows me strait a weigh.
As soon as a mist ache is maid
It nose bee four two long
And eye can put the error rite
Its rare lea ever wrong.
Eye have run this poem threw it
Eye am shore your pleased two no
Its letter perfect awl the weigh
My chequer tolled me sew.


Bob Boudreau [:D] [:D]

So much for my faith in spell chequers! Thanks for the chuckles B.B.!
[:D][:D]

[Big_Boy_4005]

Hey guys, when I see someone ask one of those questions that have been done before, rather than telling the person to look it up by searching, I do the search myself, and post the link. I usually know what I'm looking for.

[fec153]

I rarely have the knowhow to answer the query, but when I think I can help, I reply. Most of the time I just read the question and pass.
Phil

[n2mopac]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Isambard

QUOTE: Originally posted by dkelly

Good catch Bob!!!! The quote you posted also seems to have a bit of a run-on sentence lol. Oh heck . . .we're all here to have fun!

I'll have to watch my tendency towards run-on sentences, particularly when I'm ranting about other's and their aweful speling and grammer and stuf like that and accept yhat many are in a hurrey and this forum duzzn't have a spel chequer, and recognise that weer all in it to have phun, eh?
[:D]

Now THAT i understandzzz! [8D]

Ron

[n2mopac]

QUOTE: Originally posted by FundyNorthern

QUOTE:
My impression from the appalling spelling and grammar that shows up in many of the fluff threads is that there are some who use the forum to fill their idle time (and brains) with such stuff, who might be better off doing something more creative and educational. To me it's on a par with watching junk-TV and spending time talking about it.

This even shows up in this thread - it should be looking for ADVICE and not advise! [V]

Bob Boudreau

For all of you who seem to go searching for other people's mistakes to make your self feel better, its time to realize that a TYPOGRAPHICAL ERROR does NOT make one an idiot.

Ron

[tatans]

Let's see how this works, replys are: If you are for it , I'm against it, if you are against it, I'm for it. If the spelling is so bad no one can even imagine what the subject is, it's o.k. because they asked a question. If you're right, I'm wrong, If modeling advice is scarce, then look at coffe forums, Can't anyone just justify a comment like n2mopac has to say, does it always have to be a challenge in the opposite viewpoint. I happen to agree with his points--0h ,wait maybe I shouldn't .maybe I should, maybe I'll just make an argumentive point. Anyway, great question.

[DSchmitt]

I usually keep a word processer (opps) I mean processor program open and check the spelling of words that don't look right with it. I make a lot fewer mistakes that way.

There are still a lot of modeling questions on the board. When I think I can help I give my best shot at answering. Even on the topics I know something about, I learn a lot from the answers others give. Repeat questions don't bother me because often someone has a new insight or information that is new to me.[:D]

[CBQ_Guy]

I agree.

I like to be able to pass along the bits of knowledge and experience I have with those just starting out or looking for a new or alternative way of doing things. (though it get a bit difficult when people tell you it's their railroad and nobody can tell them how to do something. Fine, but my response then would be, "So then why'd ya ask?!") [%-)]

[Robert Langford]

O.K. guys, I have to agree, I've been trying to find out the best way to paint the window seperations of Walthers Mine kit. I need help. Please. BOB
[e-mail]