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Changing to Sergent Couplers?

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Posted by ACY Tom on Thursday, September 5, 2013 4:48 PM

Wow!  Get away from the computer for a couple hours & look how much gets said  while you're gone.

Prototype freight cars of the transition era (i.e., 1940's and 1950's) tend to have the coupler pulling face about 18" from the car's end sill, which means about 36" between cars.  This is presuming we're not dealing with a Duryea underframe or some other factor that would change the dimensions.  I got my numbers mixed up a while ago, but it appears from this that a 48" distance is excessive.  Coupled 711's or 714's have a distance close to 18 scale inches from pulling face to end sill, which is just about right.  I have seen full sized HO transition era freight cars so equipped, operating successfully in both pulling and pushing situations, with 714's.  The plastic used by Kadee on these couplers is tough!

That said, I still use 58's for most of my equipment.  So I'm not saying 711/714's are necessarily the answer for everybody, including me.  I often use 714's on the pilots of steam locos, simply because their smaller size fits into tight spaces more readily. 

One problem with the Sargent coupler is that (as far as I know) they won't couple up with any coupler except another Sargent or a dummy.

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Posted by csxns on Thursday, September 5, 2013 5:16 PM

What about that brakeman standing between the rails waving to the engineer to couple up to the train in Pelle's article.

Russell

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Posted by ACY Tom on Thursday, September 5, 2013 5:45 PM

The brakeman standing inside the gauge?

1. The engineer could probably see him if he were standing almost anywhere else, BUT NOT WHERE HE IS.

2.  He doesn't know and/or doesn't read his rulebook. 

3.  He may be suicidal, in which case he has a good chance of achieving his goal.

4.  I don't think I'd let him marry my daughter unless she stands to inherit a fortune.

On a more practical note, I would add that the successful operation of fairly long HO trains with 714's (mentioned above)  was carried out on curves of less than 20" radius.

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Posted by BRAKIE on Thursday, September 5, 2013 8:17 PM

csxns

What about that brakeman standing between the rails waving to the engineer to couple up to the train in Pelle's article.

 
LOL!
 
Never happen unless the brakeman had a death wish or hooking up link & pins.

Larry

Conductor.

Summerset Ry.


"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt  Safety First!"

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Posted by ChadLRyan on Thursday, September 5, 2013 9:32 PM

I did this back in January, for another Sergent thread.
It may help but may not, I try to be honest in the presentation.

 watch?v=Ky4tQMQVN0

 

Mike, I really dig that Dual Gauge coupling system, Excellent!

Chad L Ryan
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Posted by NP2626 on Thursday, September 5, 2013 9:39 PM

ChadLRyan

I did this back in January, for another Sergent thread.
It may help but may not, I try to be honest in the presentation.

 watch?v=Ky4tQMQVN0

 

Mike, I really dig that Dual Gauge coupling system, Excellent!

Chad, what did you modify to get the two to link up?  Is the method of modification described elsewhere and could you provide a link to it?  I should think those interested in considering switching to the Sergents would be interested in what you did.  Thanks for the video!

NP 2626 "Northern Pacific, really terrific"

Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association:  http://www.nprha.org/

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Posted by ChadLRyan on Thursday, September 5, 2013 9:47 PM

Hey NP, & all,
I would not be able to find the actual thread as fast as I can find this pic..
so check this out, click the pic, as it should show you the full size version in a new window.

There may be other ways, but this is how I Dun it, only modified the KaDee, Sergent is stock.
Althought it is altered it will work with other KaDee's, but is somewhat less reliable, due to the stock removal shown in the pic.

Thanks

Chad L Ryan
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Posted by mlehman on Thursday, September 5, 2013 11:58 PM

ChadLRyan
Mike, I really dig that Dual Gauge coupling system, Excellent!

Chad,

Sometimes I even amaze myself. I was fully expecting a do-over, but I managed to get it right the first time.Beer

Mike Lehman

Urbana, IL

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Posted by NP2626 on Friday, September 6, 2013 5:59 AM

Chad,

In note #3, Outside bearing: relieved to allow engagement & closure/capture in Sergent.  What bearing are you talking about?  What I see is the outer face of the "Knuckle" (unsure of correct terminology) of the coupler has had the "flash" cleaned up.

Your photo, better than any I've ever seen, demonstrate the difference in size between the Kadee and Sergent couplers.  In actuality the shank and body of the two couplers are very similar in size, shape and detail.  It is the "Knuckle" portion of the two that is the most different.

Again, thanks for your photos and explanations, Chad!

NP 2626 "Northern Pacific, really terrific"

Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association:  http://www.nprha.org/

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Posted by rrinker on Friday, September 6, 2013 6:18 AM

 About those cushion underframes - sure the nominal distacne between the ends of the carbodies was greater, but wouldn;t they be MORE dangerous during coupling, because while the center sill stops, the actual carbody could shift depending on how rough the coupling was made? Though I suspect it would be not a whole lot unless the engineer really slammed them together.

               --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by maxman on Friday, September 6, 2013 8:48 AM

NP2626
In note #3, Outside bearing: relieved to allow engagement & closure/capture in Sergent.  What bearing are you talking about? 

I believe that he means the outer surface, as in "the outer load bearing surface".

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Posted by ACY Tom on Friday, September 6, 2013 9:40 AM

Hey guys ---

I must agree with Chad.  Mike, your dual gauge coupler system is really neat.

And Chad, the modified couplers look like they would hold a lot of promise.

And Randy, I don't know what's more dangerous: close-coupled cars or distant-coupled cars on sliding underframes.  Whichever one kills you, you're just as dead.  That's why the rule. 

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Posted by ChadLRyan on Saturday, September 7, 2013 1:06 PM

NP,
My Apologies, I was offline with work, etc.. 
Yes, Maxman said it better than my explanation did.
It is the outside surface of the face that I ground & filed down to 'nest' inside the bearing (contact) surfaces of the Sergent. Without this the closure captivity is limited & the couplers are more askew when joined.
I ground it until it would capture positively, then as a second step ground it more to allow relief to become closer to shank parallel with the Sergent capture surfaces.
Alhough it can't be perfect, it is functional.
I do not have a layout to test this (on severe turns), but in a pull situation it works great, however, I could see potential issues in a push situation with a higher load force. As they go skewed out when pushed as my video shows.
However, I use Sergents for some more closer to Scale Models, & some Photo Shoots, like I also do with with too close (set back) Kadee E & F Couplers, when taking pix. (I have been called out on this)..
For running I will be using Med Shank KaDee's, or what is appropriate for that situation.
This was an experiment to see if I could make a custom compatibility option to my current standard, (KaDee Scale Head Couplers), & for me it was a success.
Thanks, I appreciate the interest & the comments, it's nice to share.

Chad L Ryan

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