ATLANTIC CENTRAL You can't sell what you don't have, and you don't need an expensive store front to take special orders. Sheldon
You can't sell what you don't have, and you don't need an expensive store front to take special orders.
Sheldon
The modern Business 101 teaches that you don't need a full inventory-of course we know the bottom lines of new hobby shop that follows that teaching usually ends up continually in the RED and the shop ends up closing simply because they have low stock and usually nothing of great interest.
Common sense business will teach one needs to retain and grow his customer base..You can't do that if you have nothing in stock or if your stock dates back to the Jurassic age.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
BRAKIE ...Common sense business will teach one needs to retain and grow his customer base. You can't do that if you have nothing in stock or if your stock dates back to the Jurassic age.
...Common sense business will teach one needs to retain and grow his customer base. You can't do that if you have nothing in stock or if your stock dates back to the Jurassic age.
Unless of course one is in the business of selling dinosaur models......sorry I couldn't resist .
But more on topic, I completely agree. I do my best to support my LHS and the hobby shops in the towns and cities that I visit for business and pleasure. It's quite a let down when you visit a hobby shop with the "itch" to buy something and there really isn't much of anything on the shelves.
Happy modeling all!
Don.
"Ladies and gentlemen, I have some good news and some bad news. The bad news is that both engines have failed, and we will be stuck here for some time. The good news is that you decided to take the train and not fly."
Hobby shops that don't have much stock go out of business. I don't care what their business plan is.
I remember one store that opened up in a strip mall in Northern Virginia. The store was 6 times the size of most hobby stores. But he only had 1 item every 1-2 feet of shelf space. Literally, there would be a one boxcar by itself, a foot or so away was another. Same for structures, etc. He lasted 6 months and was gone.
I have been to hobby shops that were two rooms each less than 8x10. They were quickly gone also.
OTOH having old and new stock seems to work well. One hobby store that was about 1000 sq ft or so had lots of old stuff and lots of new stuff. His store was so packed that it was hard to walk down the aisles. The top shelves were above your head. Some of it was 20 years old, but a lot was less than a year old. Store only went out of business because the owner died.
Just-in-Time inventory might be great for your car dealer's parts department, but for a store dependent on drop in customers, it's a no go. Look at Toys R US - everyone of their stores that I have been in are chock full of stuff. Sure they'll special order stuff for you if you want something particular that's not in stock, but they have a lot of stock on the shelves to chose from.
Enjoy
Paul
Ok, we seem to have wandered from pre orders to LHS's and discounts. Guys my LHS carries bare bones MRRing stuff, Bachmann train sets, MP and a couple atlas kits, and scenery supplies. there is yet to be seen anything made for a local(past or present) road name(NP, GN, BN, UP, and BNSF) there are no Kato or atlas loco's, there are no N scale vehicles or any other items I need/want . I try to support my LHS as best as I can but most modern hobby shops are not geared or equipped for model trains(the ones that I've been in) the NP museum in toppenish had far more stock MRRing wise than my LHS did. Also My LHS offer no discounts, so I can't say anything on that.
I really want to pay up front for my models. I do it for my video games and it has yet to fail me. It was an obligation when I pre ordered those models, and now I won't ever see them because they'll sell out quickly especially those IM NP two tone green F3's... it'd costed me $140(w/o shipping) 2-3 months ago when I placed a pre order, if I would've been able to put money down on my pre order it would be guaranteed that I'd be a proud owner of them. another thing is that HO scalers and O scalers have almost every model in every scheme available to them, N scale not so much, Z scale probably just as bad if not worse of than N.
I am very careful what I wish for.......
SP&S modeler, 1960's give or take a decade or two for some equipment.
http://www.youtube.com/user/SGTDUPREY?feature=guide
Gary DuPrey
N scale model railroader
I never have pre-ordered anything and don't plan to start now. You want me to buy anything, then you'd better have it in stock. My buying habits date from the Jurassic period. What can I say!
NP 2626 "Northern Pacific, really terrific"
Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association: http://www.nprha.org/
Burlington Northern #24 Ok, we seem to have wandered from pre orders to LHS's and discounts. Guys my LHS carries bare bones MRRing stuff, Bachmann train sets, MP and a couple atlas kits, and scenery supplies. there is yet to be seen anything made for a local(past or present) road name(NP, GN, BN, UP, and BNSF) there are no Kato or atlas loco's, there are no N scale vehicles or any other items I need/want . I try to support my LHS as best as I can but most modern hobby shops are not geared or equipped for model trains(the ones that I've been in) the NP museum in toppenish had far more stock MRRing wise than my LHS did. Also My LHS offer no discounts, so I can't say anything on that. I really want to pay up front for my models. I do it for my video games and it has yet to fail me. It was an obligation when I pre ordered those models, and now I won't ever see them because they'll sell out quickly especially those IM NP two tone green F3's... it'd costed me $140(w/o shipping) 2-3 months ago when I placed a pre order, if I would've been able to put money down on my pre order it would be guaranteed that I'd be a proud owner of them. another thing is that HO scalers and O scalers have almost every model in every scheme available to them, N scale not so much, Z scale probably just as bad if not worse of than N. I am very careful what I wish for.......
Gary,
A few more thoughts.
What's a video game? Just kidding, but I have not played one since the 80's, not my thing.
While the selection in HO may be much better than N scale, there are a lot of models not made in HO as well - just ask any B&O modeler about all the passengers cars and locos that have never been correctly modeled.
Paying for your preorder would not solve the problems of companies like Broadway Limited who announce stuff and never make it, or who take years to follow through, or better yet, take years and then still get the model wrong by taking short cuts, and simply don't care, like BLI did with their Pacifics.
The topic of preorders is directly linked to hobby shops, discounts, and the general marketing approach in the hobby today - it is all one issue.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Paying for your preorder would not solve the problems of companies like Broadway Limited who announce stuff and never make it, or who take years to follow through, or better yet, take years and then still get the model wrong by taking short cuts, and simply don't care, like BLI did with their Pacifics.
How often has that occurred with BLI?
Just curious.
Rich
Alton Junction
Burlington Northern #24N scale not so much, Z scale probably just as bad if not worse of than N.
Having model in N for the last 6 years-I recently got fed up and returned to HO-I can understand your view on prepaying /pre ordering since with N its buy it now or lament later.
N Scale been around for 50 years and still treated like a redheaded stepchild by the manufacturers.
Burlington Northern #24It was an obligation when I pre ordered those models, and now I won't ever see them because they'll sell out quickly especially those IM NP two tone green F3's... it'd costed me $140(w/o shipping) 2-3 months ago when I placed a pre order
I hate to inject reality into this thread, but I don't believe that those shipped yet. How do you know for sure that you won't receive them?
Incidentally, you may be working with the wrong dealer if you are paying in advance and then not receiving pre-ordered N scale items. How often has this happened to you?
I have pre-ordered N scale locomotives many times from Brooklyn Locomotive Works and have always received the items. Payment hasn't been charged until the items shipped. As it happens, BLW is still accepting no-cost-until-shipped reservations on the Loewy Scheme IM NP F-3s in all the road numbers.
Layout Design GalleryLayout Design Special Interest Group
I will also try to inject some retail reality here.
I work in small retail, namely a used bookstore. We've been keeping track of all the books people ask for at the store since Thanksgiving last year. So far, people have asked for over 475 different titles in the past 8 months. Of those books, only 25 have been for requested more than once.
I wish someone would tell me just how I'm supposed to stock all these items in advance so that any customer that comes in or calls my shop can buy it when they want it. Believe me, I know how much money I'm leaving on the table. My Excel file can tell me. But it's impossible for me to stock every book ever made. I only have 1250 sq. ft. of space. As it is, we have around 30,000 books in stock at any one time, which is a drop in the bucket compared to what comes out every year. How can I stock items I know are going to sell before my customers even ask for it? Oh sure, I stock the bestsellers and ones that multiple people have asked for; IOW,the most popular items. But how am I to know to have a copy of "Wallace: The Underdog Who Conquered a Sport, Saved a Marriage, and Championed Pit Bulls - One Flying Disc at a Time" 10 months after it came out?
The same thing applies to a hobby shop. There are thousands of SKU's that come out every year. This is not 1988 anymore, when there's Athearn and Atlas and Stewart and that's about it. Go find an old Walthers catalog from those days. It's mostly European equipment. It was easy...yes, easy...for an LHS to stock a hobby shop. There wasn't much choice. It wasn't, "Do I buy F7's or GP7's?", it was "How many F7's & GP7's do I buy?" And people would come in off the street and just buy 'em because that's all there was to buy...anywhere. Every hobby shop in the USA had practically the same inventory because there was so little to buy. Today, it's a little different. There are so many new products that come out every year that it's impossible to stock it all...unless you're M.B. Klein.
Paul A. Cutler III
cuyama Burlington Northern #24It was an obligation when I pre ordered those models, and now I won't ever see them because they'll sell out quickly especially those IM NP two tone green F3's... it'd costed me $140(w/o shipping) 2-3 months ago when I placed a pre order I hate to inject reality into this thread, but I don't believe that those shipped yet. How do you know for sure that you won't receive them? Incidentally, you may be working with the wrong dealer if you are paying in advance and then not receiving pre-ordered N scale items. How often has this happened to you? I have pre-ordered N scale locomotives many times from Brooklyn Locomotive Works and have always received the items. Payment hasn't been charged until the items shipped. As it happens, BLW is still accepting no-cost-until-shipped reservations on the Loewy Scheme IM NP F-3s in all the road numbers.
Sheldon, how many times has BLI backed out of a loco? I know IM backed out of F units a couple years back due to the lack of pre orders. Foobie models exist in N, my BN GP15-1 based off a UP loco, my Kato BN set based off UP cars, my CC BN exec. set has the wrong kind of dome. they're everywhere, so I share those concerns.
Brakie that's spot on, I'm lucky I got my only BN F unit for $40.00 rather than what they go for currently.
Paul3 The same thing applies to a hobby shop. There are thousands of SKU's that come out every year. This is not 1988 anymore, when there's Athearn and Atlas and Stewart and that's about it. Go find an old Walthers catalog from those days. It's mostly European equipment. It was easy...yes, easy...for an LHS to stock a hobby shop. There wasn't much choice. It wasn't, "Do I buy F7's or GP7's?", it was "How many F7's & GP7's do I buy?" And people would come in off the street and just buy 'em because that's all there was to buy...anywhere. Every hobby shop in the USA had practically the same inventory because there was so little to buy. Today, it's a little different. There are so many new products that come out every year that it's impossible to stock it all...unless you're M.B. Klein. Paul A. Cutler III
Paul,I don't think anybody is suggesting a shop needs to stock everything.. A shop does need to keep current up to date stock.
Your book shop is not a hobby shop where the newest car or locomotive is wanted by your customers..
Not in stock..I walk out as a unsatisfied customer and a on line shop gets the order and that plays havoc with your bottom line.
As a small business owner you should know how important it is to have customers returning to your shop time and time again.
If I keep returning to your book shop and never finding what I want how many times do you think I will be returning? Not very many before I would simply write your shop off.
Paul3 I will also try to inject some retail reality here. I work in small retail, namely a used bookstore. We've been keeping track of all the books people ask for at the store since Thanksgiving last year. So far, people have asked for over 475 different titles in the past 8 months. Of those books, only 25 have been for requested more than once. I wish someone would tell me just how I'm supposed to stock all these items in advance so that any customer that comes in or calls my shop can buy it when they want it. Believe me, I know how much money I'm leaving on the table. My Excel file can tell me. But it's impossible for me to stock every book ever made. I only have 1250 sq. ft. of space. As it is, we have around 30,000 books in stock at any one time, which is a drop in the bucket compared to what comes out every year. How can I stock items I know are going to sell before my customers even ask for it? Oh sure, I stock the bestsellers and ones that multiple people have asked for; IOW,the most popular items. But how am I to know to have a copy of "Wallace: The Underdog Who Conquered a Sport, Saved a Marriage, and Championed Pit Bulls - One Flying Disc at a Time" 10 months after it came out? The same thing applies to a hobby shop. There are thousands of SKU's that come out every year. This is not 1988 anymore, when there's Athearn and Atlas and Stewart and that's about it. Go find an old Walthers catalog from those days. It's mostly European equipment. It was easy...yes, easy...for an LHS to stock a hobby shop. There wasn't much choice. It wasn't, "Do I buy F7's or GP7's?", it was "How many F7's & GP7's do I buy?" And people would come in off the street and just buy 'em because that's all there was to buy...anywhere. Every hobby shop in the USA had practically the same inventory because there was so little to buy. Today, it's a little different. There are so many new products that come out every year that it's impossible to stock it all...unless you're M.B. Klein. Paul A. Cutler III
I will repeat, we could see this coming back then, We could see the discounting coming. My owner and I knew then it would be "go big or go home". ANY retailer in any industry must understand and know his market and have the right size store and enough capital to be effective - business has been that way forever.
Was it a little easier to be a well stocked train store in 1975, maybe so. But there were more products then than you realize. Plastic lines - kit and RTR - Athearn, Roundhouse, Train Miniature, Model Power, Mantua/Tyco, AHM, Bachmann, Cox, Revell. Craftsman lines - Quality Craft, LaBelle, Silver Streak, Roller Bearing, Northeastern, Huff & Puff, Menzies, E&B valley, Durango press, Central Valley, BevBel, Ulrich, Walthers, Westerfield.
And those were just the big names.
Locos - Athearn had about 200 different item numbers, no counting the dummy versions.
So don't try to discount the selection of products back then. I still say, that with all this "limited" production, at any given moment, there is not a much more available right now as you think compared to back then.
Sure, if you "grab" stuff while it is available, the selection in the last 20 years has been 10,000 times what it was in the 20 years before that. But at any given moment, how much can you find? That's all the bigger your store needs to be.
Back then, MB Klein had EVERYTHING, well it seemed like it anyway. So did Gilberts, Caboose Hobbies, Corr's in DC, and so on.
Point remains, you have to have it to sell it. It was that way when I sold hobbys, and when I sold MATCO TOOLS, and I shop in stores who have stuff. I drive past ones that don't.
richhotrain ATLANTIC CENTRAL Paying for your preorder would not solve the problems of companies like Broadway Limited who announce stuff and never make it, or who take years to follow through, or better yet, take years and then still get the model wrong by taking short cuts, and simply don't care, like BLI did with their Pacifics. How often has that occurred with BLI? Just curious. Rich
Rich, I have not tracked all the stuff, but just from the unhappy people waiting on here, and the stuff I know the details about like the Pacifics, it is a lot. Projects have been announced, never done, pushed back for years, done poorly, etc. Personally I am so unimpressed with that company.....but that is just me, I know I an "old fashioned" in my views on a lot of stuff.
BRAKIEPaul,I don't think anybody is suggesting a shop needs to stock everything.. A shop does need to keep current up to date stock.
Larry,
I don't think you said it, but several others suggested that it was either that or an empty store -- because it's a lot easier to knock down strawmen here online than to determine what customers want. I actually don't expect to find much of what I specifically may want when I walk into any hobby shop, except Caboose and a few others, because I'm in narrowgauge.
On the other hand, I do expect a shop to have a lot of the basics: scenery materials, various specialties like couplers, scratchbuilding supplies, paint. But I've been told before here you don't make any money on that. On the other hand, if that's what customers want?
I think Paul has some very good points about how difficult it is to keep stock when customer needs are wide-ranging. The thing that keeps customers like that, like me, is service.
And how exactly are shops supposed to stock in the limited-run environment of today. Buy one of everything? Buy nothing and order in everything? Nope, somewhere in between. that fabulous gray area where the certainty that if we just stocked far fewer SKUs, it would somehow be a better, more profitable hobby for everyone sort of fades into the fog of reality.
I really don't know anything about the stalled BLI project. Too "East Coast" for me, that one. But even knowing nothing, I have to ask: Would the project have even been attempted without pre-orders? This sounds like a vendor trying to ascertain if demand for a loco that is decidedly middle of the pack in potential customer demand is there to support at least one run. If the answer is "Not Yet" then wait a little longer may be the right call. Should they produce a loco that the numbers tell them can't sell well enough to make a profit?
If there was no pre-order system, in the old days a vendor might just go ahead and build a bunch, then find themselves stuck with a bunch -- probably far more than the small numbers that draw close-out pricing and customers saying "No Fair! when they see it...it wouldn't be that cheap if they were really making a profit, so how could they sell the whole run at close-out price??? Nope, doesn't make sense to me either, just as building locos you're not sure you have customers for doesn't.
Finally, is it the vendor's fault when they invest money to get a project started, then find they'll not recover what it takes to bring it to market? No, it isn't, if enough people aren't willing to buy into their dream of a great product. Instead of condemning folks for putting announced projects on hold or canceling them altogether under those circumstances, we should be glad they have the good business judgment to do so. This hobby is littered with the bones of those who took good companies and miscalled a new product, bringing down the whole company and the other products they made with it. Better a cancellation than a hasty rush to market or bringing down the whole company in the process of not knowing when to say no.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
ATLANTIC CENTRAL I will repeat, we could see this coming back then, We could see the discounting coming. My owner and I knew then it would be "go big or go home". ANY retailer in any industry must understand and know his market and have the right size store and enough capital to be effective - business has been that way forever.
In my thinking, that is a key take-away. Most of the mid-size, train-only, hobby shops have gone by the wayside. The same is true for the importer/manufacturers. There has to be sufficient capital, and sufficient diversity in product for when things go wrong. The collapse (took far more orders than they could produce) and buyout of Sanda Kan has caused near failure of more than one line of Chinese-built locomotives.
There is a small manufacturer business model (used to be called basement manufacturers and sellers) that can and does work. On the manufacturing side, it features small quantity production using techniques such as photo-etching, resin and metal casting, and laser wood cutting. These small manufacturers best serve hobby niches where demand is not big, and kits are more appreciated than RTR. After all, assembly labor is at a premium for the small manufacturer. But the business model doesn't scale up in size very well. As a result, most of the small manufacturers go out of business after a decade or two when the owner gets tired of the business.
just my thoughts
Fred W
mlehmanOn the other hand, I do expect a shop to have a lot of the basics: scenery materials, various specialties like couplers, scratchbuilding supplies, paint. But I've been told before here you don't make any money on that. On the other hand, if that's what customers want?
Yes,basic stock will help the bottom line far better then a fat zero because its not in stock.
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Here's where good common sense in knowing your customers needs come into play..You order what sells locally.
As a example no need to order a W.P. GP9 if such doesn't sell.Now you know C&O sells so,you buy extra.
To draw the crowds why not have a 10% off (say) freight cars one Saturday morning and next Saturday 10% off locomotives? You will still make money on your "eye candy" which leads to impulse buying.
Don't laugh..It works like a charm. Its simple old school "suck 'em in" method that major box stores use today to entice customers to enter their store then its "welcome to the parlor said the spider to the fly."
We see it as their weekly sales flyer.
I had thought that I would be unlikely to preorder any model railroad item. I prefer to read reviews about the item and now with the computer age you can quite often check u-tube and see the product running.
That changed when BLI announced that they were going to produce a HO Great Northern locomotive the S1 Northern engine.
BLI requested those who would buy the product to preorder, there was no cost associated with the preorder.
I did per-order, I, sent a note that I would buy at least two if not three engines. On their site at that time you could preorder the locomotive. (How many remember that BLI used to maintain a Forum)
On the calender that BLI kept this engine kept being delayed, this went on for a couple of years, then, finally they announced that they would not produce that engine as there was just not enough interest.
The next time I ran across an item that I was interested in was the Rapido HO Canadian, a full set of three engines and 10 passenger cars.You had your choice of which era and paint scheme.
This time the preorder came with a cost, a deposit of around $400 if I remember correctly. This deposit was to be refundable should the item not be produced. The total cost was approximately $1,300.
I had purchased a number of Rapido HO passenger coaches and was very impressed with them, I had a number of these coaches in CNR, GN and CPR road names. These coaches were very detailed, tracked well and in the case of support Rapido was great, a truck badly our of alignment, a replacement set sent out the next day, a problem with a paint job and a replacement body was sent out. Quality control was less than perfect, but any complaint was taken care of.
I decided to buy two of these sets in two different eras.
The product was late as there were delays, these were always mentioned in their newsletters, I would rather wait until an item was fully completed rather than accept something that was incorrect.
When the model was finally produced, there were a few minor problems, but service was excellent and those problems were speedily dealt with.
Should Rapido consider making any item that I was interested in I would not hesitate to preorder, and it the item was to be rather expensive, I would certainly pay a deposit, refundable of course.
This hobby is littered with the bones of those who took good companies and miscalled a new product, bringing down the whole company and the other products they made with it. Better a cancellation than a hasty rush to market or bringing down the whole company in the process of not knowing when to say no.
Name one. I have ben in this hobby and in and out of this business for 40 years, I know of no company that went under because of one looser product.
You name the company, and there is a good chance I know the history,
DON7,
If I recall correctly, BLI,in the part two Video,of the Atlanta Train Show,,showed Cody,one of their new engines,,,A SW 1...
Cheers,
Frank
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Name one. I have ben in this hobby and in and out of this business for 40 years, I know of no company that went under because of one looser product. You name the company, and there is a good chance I know the history,
Bachmann
richhotrain ATLANTIC CENTRAL Name one. I have ben in this hobby and in and out of this business for 40 years, I know of no company that went under because of one looser product. You name the company, and there is a good chance I know the history, Bachmann
Bachmann, originally a 1900's Philadelpia brush manufacturer, who later got into the injection molded train set structure business (Plasticville), and later started importing cheap Hong Kong train sets.
Molding brush handles and plastic buildings used the same machinery.
Kader bought the company to have an American name and base to market their products in North America - Hired Lee Riley of Pro Custom Hobbies to develop "modeler grade" product line - short version.
Sheldon,
GOTTA,,hand it to you Sheldon,,,,,''Good Show'',,''Jolly Good Show''
zstripe Sheldon, GOTTA,,hand it to you Sheldon,,,,,''Good Show'',,''Jolly Good Show'' Cheers, Frank
This thread is wandering away from pre-ordering again. I saved it from being locked once already.
Dr. Frankendiesel aka Scott Running BearSpace Mouse for president!15 year veteran fire fighterCollector of Apple //e'sRunning Bear EnterprisesHistory Channel Club life member.beatus homo qui invenit sapientiam
Actually, some of these small manufacturers can last a long time if someone is willing to take them over. Silver Streak kits are still being manufactured by Ye Olde Huff n Puff. http://www.yeoldehuffnpuff.com/sstreakkits.htm Suydam structure models are still being made by Alpine Division Models. http://www.alpinemodels.com/index.html . LaBelle Woodworking is still in business even if it has moved from Oconomowoc, WI to Cheyenne, WI: https://www.labellemodels.com/ , Of course, LaBelle appeals only to those whose interest is in early 20th Century railroading.
There are other manufacturers that have been around a while like Bethelehem Car Works, that specializes in passenger cars (generally East Coast prototypes) and a number of their kits sell for about the same as Walthers RTR passenger kits. The BCW kits come less trucks and couplers.
Of course, you'll have to pay full retail, (oh the horror!) because these items aren't discounted.
I wonder how many people would be willing to pay $60 for a caboose kit that, while it comes with trucks, will have to be painted as well as assembled. I wonder how many people would be willing to assemble the caboose even if given one as a gift. Here are the instructions. http://www.wrighttrak.com/attachments/File/SP_Caboose_Instructions.pdf Since there are several variations for the caboose, it might be wise to have a copy of Tony Thompson's "Southern Pacific Freight Cars Volume 2: Cabooses" for reference and an aid to deciding which variation you want.. There's a copy available on eBay not. Only $94.99 plus shipping. At least you can amortize the cost of the book across multiple caboose projects.
As far as locomotives go, the Brits are lucky in that they have DJH. Of course, the Brits use 3 different gauge combinations for 4MM scale so that motors, gears and wheels have to be ordered separately. However, DJH does make some HO scale kits that include everything and one of them is a US Army Transportation Corps S160 2-8-0. It sells for 325 GBP (about $500 US). http://www.djhmodelloco.co.uk/prodpage.asp?productid=3073 Those who have been around for a while will remember that DJH did some US kits, an NYC J-1D Hudson, USRA Light 4-6-2 and 2-8-2 and an ATSF 3160 Class 2-8-2. Round about the early 90's, these kits were discontinued and blown out because no one was buying them. They were good kits, but weren't cheap. As I recall, they were selling north of $250/each in the late 1980's.
Anybody willing to pay over $450 US for a 2-6-2T tank engine? http://www.ironhorsehobbies.co.nz/wa-locomotive-s-scale-1-64-kitset.html
It's one of the ironies of modern life that the only place you can get Sn3 steam locomotive kits is from a country that has a population less than half that of Los Angeles County http://www.railmaster.co.nz/railway/loco.htm
Andre
jeffrey-wimberly This thread is wandering away from pre-ordering again. I saved it from being locked once already.
Burlington Northern #24 I really want to pay up front for my models. I do it for my video games and it has yet to fail me.
I really want to pay up front for my models. I do it for my video games and it has yet to fail me.
Paying up front is what I'm trying to avoid. Been burned by that on locomotives. Yep, manufacturer was coming out with just what I wanted, in the paint scheme I wanted. But had to pay deposit up front. We'll wanting this product, I bit the bullet and put down the deposit (at least I used my Amex). And then ................ waiting .................. Finally, the product arrived in the states, couldn't wait to get mine. Only it never showed up. Waited some more. Called the shop that took the order (on line shop, no LHS near me, but it was one of the biggies with good reputation). Oh, sorry they said. All sold out. Even though I PREORDERED and they had my money for a year, they didn't order enough, but if the demand was high enough they might make it again and I could PREORDER again next time. At least, like I said, I used my AMEX card and got my money back, but they had had it for a year, using my money to finance their product development and purchases, and then not making enough product to meet demand. A preorder wasn't a customer to them; it was an interest free loan.
Preorder is good only for the manufacturer, not the customer, and not for the hobby as a whole over the long term.
jmbjmbPaying up front is what I'm trying to avoid
Russell
jmbjmb Burlington Northern #24 I really want to pay up front for my models. I do it for my video games and it has yet to fail me. Paying up front is what I'm trying to avoid. Been burned by that on locomotives. Yep, manufacturer was coming out with just what I wanted, in the paint scheme I wanted. But had to pay deposit up front. We'll wanting this product, I bit the bullet and put down the deposit (at least I used my Amex). And then ................ waiting .................. Finally, the product arrived in the states, couldn't wait to get mine. Only it never showed up. Waited some more. Called the shop that took the order (on line shop, no LHS near me, but it was one of the biggies with good reputation). Oh, sorry they said. All sold out. Even though I PREORDERED and they had my money for a year, they didn't order enough, but if the demand was high enough they might make it again and I could PREORDER again next time. At least, like I said, I used my AMEX card and got my money back, but they had had it for a year, using my money to finance their product development and purchases, and then not making enough product to meet demand. A preorder wasn't a customer to them; it was an interest free loan. Preorder is good only for the manufacturer, not the customer, and not for the hobby as a whole over the long term.