Bad news today!i got out my old Bowser 4-6-0 and noticed cracking around the cylinders!Looks like the part has to be replaced before it crumbles.Where is the best place to find a new part?
Try Bowser. While they're no longer offering those locos, they still have many parts on-hand. A friend recently drove down there and picked up over $100.00 worth of parts for a Bowser Challenger.
Not too long ago, I repainted his Bowser (originally Varney) Consolidation:
Wayne
Thanks!I thought the zinc pest problem was solved by the '50s!i bought and built this loco in 1988!
You might also try Yardbird Trains. He has a lot of parts for old steamers....
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Gary M. Collins gmcrailgNOSPAM@gmail.com
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"Common Sense, Ain't!" -- G. M. Collins
http://fhn.site90.net
Do you have a link?
I believe I have posted on this before.
The zinc pest is due to impurities in various zinc alloys. Wiki blames it on the ZAMAG lead imputies in the alloy, but in most cases I have observed, it is due to a mercury impurity carried in the original zinc or lead components.
Mercury is extremely corrosive when introduced in even minute, virtually undetectable amounts in most any alloy but is particlarly destructive in what is euphemistically termed "Pot Metal".
Pot metal is generally any very inexpensive casting metal that is massive like lead to give weight to a manufactured article, but is also hard, easy to cast in cheap molds at lower temperatures and which is relatively durable. The many forms of ZAMAG (zinc-aluminum-magnesium) alloys often have lead added. Poorly refined zinc and lead can have trace amounts of mercury as natural "tramp" metal.
Once these impure zinc or lead metals are joined with aluminum and magnesium, the mercury goes to work on these lighter metals, crawling along the grain structure and destroying metallic alloyed bonds allowing the mercury to amalagate, corrode and oxidize the aluminum. Cracks form over time and the alloy, ultimately, breaks down.
Remember, mercury is always molten at room temperatures and can move about in any alloy, no matter how well mixed.....Overtime, it does move about leaving voids in its wake where it has moved and oxidized the aluminum/magnesium which falls out as a white or grey powder.
I attach an image of a late 60's Rivarossi dockside's ZAMAG boiler weight that has falted severely. Under close inspection, tiny, nearly microscopic beads of mercury and mercury amalgam are seen.
Next time you see the zinc pest, and once you have a new part in place, crack open your old casting along the crack lines and, using a magnifier, look for those brilliant shiny beads of mercury.
The fault is not one of when the model was made, for you can make a model in 2012 from lead or zinc alloys that you do not spec to a purity greater than 98.8% and still have the pest hit your casting by 2040. It is strictly a matter of the purity of the original components in the alloy. Pot metal is called pot metal for a reason.....It is low cost and designed to not impact the cost of any item it is used in due to the use of bottom of the line materials which suffice to get the product out of the door at a price point.
Richard
If I can't fix it, I can fix it so it can't be fixed
Richard, nice job with the explanation, definitely the best one I have read.
I am wondering if Mantua was ever plagued with this issue.
Jim
I actually worked at Bowser as a factory employee during 1988--though the model in question if purchased in that year could have been in a given dealer's inventory for some years prior to the purchase.
We went to great pains to keep the lead boilers (and any waste) separate from the zinc boilers (and any waste). In the shop, the lead was fairly easy to distinguish from the zinc, because the zinc was always much shinier in color, and the lead has a duller grey look to it, even when freshly cast, brand new. (Zinc casting was done in a separate building from lead casting--down the street at a different location--that's the kind of care they took to keep lead out of the zinc).
The oldest/earliest engines (typically inherited from previous makers) were cast from a lead alloy (I believe close to pewter) and all the newest ones (M1, M1A, etc.) were done in zinc.
Bowser was well aware of intergranular corrosion and for many years cast replacement zinc wheels for Lionel Trains--some 1920's/1930's Lionel wheels are prone to zinc pest (lead had been used to make the metal flow into the Lionel molds more efficiently) and can crumble to dust in your hands (more likely if the paint has degraded or is missing).
I'm very sorry to hear about the zinc pest--and certainly this is not something I've heard about happening with Bowser engines previously. This is a first for me...
I recommend the owner contact Bowser and ask for a replacement part. Although steam loco drivers are in very short supply (if not gone), they might have replacement cylinder blocks on hand. Also check the pilot--I can't tell from the photo if it has a crack or not.
It will go faster/more efficiently if you have the part number, too. There are diagrams available on their website with part numbers. You might wish to check there.
Sincere condolences regarding the damage--
John
PennLine, Varney, Lionel -- many of the older scale and toy trains suffered from this. I appreciated the technical explanation of an above-poster, but I think it was generally assumed that the causes had been identified and the problems basically resolved by the time our OP bought his engine. Thus I think it is fair to say this is still a surprise for such a recent product of the Bowser factory.
And it does indeed look like the problem has spread on this engine beyond the cylinder casting.
Not exactly on point, but some of the very early plastics that were used in the hobby had some issues as well. They were sort of like Bakelite.
Dave Nelson
I will try Bowser and if not I am sure I can find it somewhere!I carefully inspected the boiler and luckily there is no sign of the pest.
Dave Nelson--
Well, I certainly was not the one to see the material certification forms, but as the one post above indicated, it can be caused by even just trace amounts of an impurity like mercury--simply one bad batch of metal.
This also means all the tons of fabulous Chinese and/or Korean made diesels some of us have been buying might eventually have the same problems with frames or other parts failing (beneath the plastic body).
P.S. The 4-6-0 was a fairly common engine, and you also might be able to pick up parts at a good train show.
Clic the pic to view the clip
Were you the original owner of that Bowser?
The reason I ask is I am wondering if someone swapped on a cylinder from a older run for whatever reason.
Yes I built the kit ;n 1988.
Here are the links you were looking for.
http://stores.ebay.com/Yardbird-Classic-Trains
http://yardbirdtrains.com/index.htm
http://www.bowser-trains.com/
I know for a fact that Bowser still has these cylinders in stock. I friend of mine had the same problem and spoke with Lee English about it. In fact, if you came across a set from a E6 Atlantic, there will also fit with a little filing.
Can you ask him for the part number?
I found out the part number is #8130.
parts323 I found out the part number is #8130.
Note, that is the P/N for the Atlantic cylinders. The Casey Jones 4-6-0 cylinders is P/N 2164. Both show in stock on the Bowser website.
Here is the parts listing and manual.
http://bowser-trains.com/holocos/casey_jones/Casey.pdf
http://bowser-trains.com/holocos/casey_jones/101100.pdf
Does not matter that it is the part number for the Atlantic. The cylinders for the G5 and the E6 are exactly the same according to Lee English.
Thanks!That is a great help!
I had one of those but I can't seem to find it. Now I know why.
Peter Smith, Memphis
Your welcome.
You may have to slightly file the cradle where the boiler rests due to manufacturing differences, but all valve gear and mounting holes will line up perfectly.