Sam Posey asks "Are you an Operator or Scenery Man"

[PASMITH]

One or the other must be dominant. it is a rare person who can jump between the left and right hand side of their brain.

Peter Smith, Memphis

[PennsyHoosier]

Why do both?????

[Anonymous]

Me Operator hahaha

[Jetrock]

After a month or so of having my yard and industries set up and performing the most rudimentary sorts of operation (making a train using a half-dozen or so cars, then swapping out each siding with new cars and returning the previously set-out cars to the yard) I find I'm kind of getting hooked on it. Fixing bad trackwork and non-cooperative cars definitely moves into a higher priority, as derailments or other mechanical hinkiness immediately stall the "game" and bring one back to the real world.

Operation is also kind of giving me a taste for MORE LAYOUT--with six or seven car trains and only three sidings to drop off cars, the game is over far too soon and I crave more industries to switch. Fortunately I have another 12 or so linear feet of garage shelving built so I can double my available space and add a few more industries. Expansion will also allow me to get rid of my improvised "shoofly" between yard and industries which contains a wicked S-curve that invariably trips up my 50' cars.

[camarokid]

I am a scenery man. I like to watch them run round and round. Takes about 10 minutes.

[Anonymous]

My HO scale Eastern RR is a operator main line railroad

[pbjwilson]

I voted for scenery but it reminds me of a point that I have brought up before. I enjoy reading Railway Modeler an English publication. It seems to me the Brits modeling concepts are much different than americans. Point to point is very common and modeling an actual location and time is the goal. The Brits also seem to get atmosphere into their modeling. It kind of reminds me of the way Ben King modeled.His layout in M.R. had all the details, point to point operations, and lots of atmosphere. But for me my I like my trains doing laps in dramatic scenery.

[SSW9389]

I used to be a leg man before I got wheels! Count me with the operators.

QUOTE: Originally posted by CBQ_Guy

I'm a "leg man". [:D] [;)] [}:)] [^]

[Anonymous]

Huh, I didn't know I had to be one or the other[%-)] My profession tends to be technical to the point that it disallows creativity. Model railroading gives me an outlet for that creativity. So I guess that makes me a scenery person, a "liberal arts" engineer. Model railroading grew out of a lifetime of scale modeling for me. I am a stickler for accuracy of form, but applying the overall structure of accurate operations to something I do for relaxation and escape takes me in the opposite direction from that which draws me to the hobby in the first place. In it's simplest form, layout-building and the running of interesting trains upon it, are my way of hearkening back to a simpler time that I remember from my youth, recreating a world as I would like for it to still be, and sharing creative play with my young children. From that standpoint, my model railroads need no purpose or destination other than being an imaginative and visually interesting pastime.[:)]

[Anonymous]

I have to count myself a scenery person. I have no operating layout due to constraints at home, but have been an operator at John Pryke's for many years. I have usually handled the Union Freight cab and was mentioned in Sam's book briefly. I love detailed and intricate structures with a realistic setting for the trains to operate in and will eventually have (I hope!) a street switching layout based on the Claremont and Concord Ry in Claremont NH.

John P's operating sessions were unique in that we had a timetable, but no pressure from a fast clock, when each move was finished, then we moved to the next set of moves for each cab. I have operated a timetable layout where everything had to syncronize and found it too much like work instead of relaxation.

Vic Hamburger

[LuthierTom]

Wow, an even 50 - 50 split! [:0]

If you count having accurate locomotives and cabooses (cabeese?) (e.g., cabin cars) under "scenery", I am *definately* a scenery type. I am an aerospace engineer, and deal too much with technical minutiae, micromanagement and control freaks daily in my job. For me, my trains are like a fi***ank without the associated headaches: it is very relaxing to watch them run through their little world - and I enjoy making that little world. I'll admit I am making it as an idealized world of my childhood, but that just helps the relaxing. [:)]

[BNSFNUT]

I operate my layout by time table and card order system but have a lot of scenery.
I like to switch a lot but want a realistic setting to do it in.
I am trying to model a complete section of a railroad which to me requires prototypical operation in a realistic setting.
But the nice thing about this hobby is no matter what you do on YOUR layout it is ok as long as YOU like it.

[vsmith]

Exactly, we all tend to "gravitate" to one pole or another. Its based on our deeper psyche. Are you a more Technical Degree or Liberal Arts Degree person? Control and operation -v-s- Observation and reflection. [?]

[bcammack]

I don't think that any value judgements should be infered by this poll. Another way to ask was given previously and I think is accurate, "Are you a 'railfan' or an 'engineer'?"

In extremis, of course, you have Malcom Furlow at one end for whom, as his art matured, drifted farther and farther away from operation as even a remote possiblity and, at the other end, someone who may not even bother to ballast the track (or uses Unitrack) to produce a highly operable, yet minimally or unscenicked layout.

Obviously, the rest of the statistical universe of model railroaders spans the entire space between these two poles. I sort of grudgingly scenic the layout so that the final result will be a bit more immersive when I operate it. (a switching layout)

I think that the poll is trying to ascertain which pole you gravitate towards, philosophically and behaviorally, not which extreme you practice.

[Big_Boy_4005]

This is kind of a left brain vs right brain thing, but I agree with Joe, both are possible. Perhaps it just takes that rare individual to find balance.

Jetrock mentioned continuum, and that makes a lot more sense. This isn't a simple case of black and white, there are infinate shades of gray. Finding balance is difficult, but not impossible. The greatest model railroads feature both elements, but there is no right or wrong way.

It may not be as hard to achieve balance as some people think, because there are really two seperate processes going on, and they are not done at the same time. Operation is planned for during the design phase. Benchwork, track laying, and electrical complete the analytical elements. What's left is pure art, creating landscape and structures to tie it all together, and bring it to life.

It is posible to be both engineer and railfan, even if you can only wear one hat at a time. I consider realistic operation to be the highest level to which this hobby can be taken. Not everyone desires that level of realism, and nobody should feel bad if that isn't their style or taste. After all, this is a hobby. The most important part is to have fun!

[cwclark]

what happens when you do both?....I'm a good operator, but spend 90% of the time doing scenery?...not a fair question especially to those that own their own MR's...

[DonaldAgne]

Well, Sam, I guess I'm definitely a scenery man. I don't know if the ratio of track to scenery is measurable in any meaningful way; but, if it was, the ratio would be pretty low on my layout (not much track, lots of scenery). I'm happiest when creating a little world for the trains to travel through. My layout allows for some limited operations, like turning locos and moving them around in the engine facility, and the trains have to navigate a manual reverse loop at the end of the run. If I were to build a large switching layout sometime in the future, I might enjoy moving boxcars around in the yard for a while, but my main interest would be in trying to make it look as realistic as possible. I doubt that I would enjoy all the paperwork and stress involved in trying to meet realistic operating schedules. I get enough of that at the office.

Thought you might enjoy a couple pictures[:)]



Thanks for listening.

[Jetrock]

QUOTE: Originally posted by vsmith
"The operators also tend to see trains as vehicles on a literal journey that has a beginning, middle, and end. (Scenery) People who are content to watch trains do laps see them more abstractly, as objects in motion, or even objects that, in thier lapping, suggest the cycles of life"

Gee, that's getting awfully existential...

If a train passes in the forest and it isn't on the timetable, does it make a sound?

I guess I'm definitely a scenery person--the yard section I scenicked last weekend didn't even have wires leading to most of it until this afternoon--I do it the lazy way with terminal rail joiners. Discovered that some of my lovely paint/ballast job had seeped in between a few chunks of flextrack, resulting in some dead sections of track. A little corrective work with a Bright Boy and some rail cleaner resolved things, and I spent half an hour or so shuffling cars around with my S1 to make sure everything is at least tolerably functional (one switch still needs a little nudge to keep current running the right way.) It was fun. I'm still planning on printing up those car cards, though, because it seems like having to pick out specific cars and bring them specific places sounds like fun.

Of course, now I have the yard and I have a couple of industries, but the two don't CONNECT TOGETHER quite yet...

[AggroJones]

Scenery I guess. Scenic construction ranks second in activities I enjoy. If "operation" is defined by timetables and waybills and all that paperwork, then no I'm not an operator. I just like nice trains to flow through nice scenery.

[bcammack]

It is a narrow definition because people are predominantly right-brained or left-brained. That was the point that Posey was driving towards. Artistic vs. Technical prediliction.

[Anonymous]

I'll also have to vote "None of the above." The either/or is too limiting. I'm building a highly sceniced point-to-point layout that requires "operation." I enjoy both.

Wayne

[vsmith]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CBQ_Guy

I'm a "leg man". [:D] [;)] [}:)] [^]

That counts as a "Scenery Man" vote, to count as an "Operator", you actually have to go and get her phone #.[;)]

[CBQ_Guy]

I'm a "leg man". [:D] [;)] [}:)] [^]

[cjcrescent]

I didn't vote although I prefer operations. I thought the two "backgrounds" Mr Posey used were too limiting. My background is specifically medical/nursing. It is neither simply liberal arts, nor is it simply technical. The other modellers, that I know, with the same background seem to be divided 50-50. Some are scenery gurus and have absolutely fabulous scenery with a train almost as an afterthought, while the rest are operation wizards and seem to be lucky to get even a basic landform in place or even a structure placed for an industry. I personally hold that the topology/scenery of the area modelled should explain part of the reasons behind the operations/industries.

[jfugate]

QUOTE: Originally posted by vsmith
Posey statement was that Deep Down we all fall into one or the other mindset. It doesnt have to do with weather or not you can do great scenery. It has to do with your more basic nature. or as he says...

"The operators also tend to see trains as vehicles on a literal journey that has a beginning, middle, and end. (Scenery) People who are content to watch trains do laps see them more abstractly, as objects in motion, or even objects that, in thier lapping, suggest the cycles of life"

Then I am clearly an operator. The train has to be going somewhere to be the most interesting to me.

Then the scenery type is what the LDSIG calls the "railfan", which to me is a more precise, less confusing term than "scenery guy". The LDSIG calls the "operator" the "engineer", again, a more descriptive term.

But it's the same distinction exactly -- are you a railfan or an engineer? And none of us are purists, just some mix of the two. For example, I can enjoy just watching trains run for a few minutes, and then I start wanting them to be going somewhere with a purpose, so the "engineer" in me kicks in again.

[vsmith]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jfugate

Why does it have to be one or the other?

I voted for operator because at the end of the day, everything I do is for realistic operation.

But anyone who has seen the scenery on my Siskiyou Line can attest, realistic scenery does not take a back seat with me.


Realistic scenery *AND* realistic operations

Posey statement was that Deep Down we all fall into one or the other mindset. It doesnt have to do with weather or not you can do great scenery. It has to do with your more basic nature. or as he says...

"The operators also tend to see trains as vehicles on a literal journey that has a beginning, middle, and end. (Scenery) People who are content to watch trains do laps see them more abstractly, as objects in motion, or even objects that, in thier lapping, suggest the cycles of life"

Both groups can be great modelers but the more abstract reasoning as to why me do things a certain way can be distilled down to these two fundamentals. I consider myself a scenery man, even though I'm not very good at it. I do model RRing as a form of relaxation and to give my modeling skills a creative outlet, kinda like Uber-sceneryman Furlow who models everything from an artistic frame of reference, where everything is built and staged for a specific viewpoint of observation, like a painting. I have no desire to race a timetable or master a fastclock and the only card system I like involves getting as close to 21 without busting.[;)]

[IRONROOSTER]

I just like to watch them run. Plus I get enjoyment from building the models.
Enjoy
Paul

[Anonymous]

I am trying to learn about operation and can't wait for Joe F. to come out with his operations DVD! To this point, however, most of what I have done is towards the scenery end of the spectrum and I believe I do model railroading to "Get in touch with my Artsy self"!

[Anonymous]

Operator!!!!!!

[Jetrock]

It's a continuum--many of us are "on the fence", as the above indicates, rather than strictly one or the other. I'm sure that many, if not most, model railroaders want a realistic layout with realistic operation--our various biases and preferences end up deciding what gets done first, what gets the most attention, as well as our personal ideas of what makes a "realistic layout" vs. "realistic operation."