Sam Posey asks "Are you an Operator or Scenery Man"

[Anonymous]

I'm one of the scenic/runners. I like a lot going on on my layout. I also like it to look realistic as far as trees, brush and so forth goes. I guess I could say that every aspect and detail about my layout is important to me.

trainluver1

[Anonymous]

I loved Sam Posey's book. Couldn't put it down 'till I was finished. Felt little screwed up emotionally for a few days when the book takes that downward turn. I guess I could relate to his story. But I also agree with BIG_BOY!! you can be both. That's what makes model railroading so great it's that it's not one thing. It's planning, electronics,art, drafting, modeling, history, etc..... and then there's trainshows,meeting new people, forums- shared ideas and problem solving with yourself and others Live and Love it all!! NO I'm not drunk!!!!! I just get excited easy I guess. :)

[Anonymous]

OOPS!

My mistake--Sam has authored just the one book, "Playing with Trains, A Passion Beyond Scale."
The Weekend America website didn't make that clear. Sorry 'bout the screw up!

I guess I'll still get the book!

[Anonymous]

Sam has a another book out called "A Passion Beyond Scale" There was an audio snippett on Weekend America (National Public Radio) today (Saturday June 4, '05) about Sam. Weekend America has a website and the appropriate link is about halfway down and titled "A Passion Beyond Scale." The snippet is a little over eight minutes in length and also involves Tony Koester in the interview. I think I'll have to invest in both books!

[cheese3]

i am more of a scenery/runner guy. although i may not be that good at scenery it is still fun.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Bingo!! [tup] [tup]

I prefer a nice glass of Merlot to a drink, although I'll occasionally indulge in a Single Malt Scotch and glass of water.[:D]

I voted Scenery also. I don't have the capacity or care to learn all the operational details. (being just a novice maybe that'll change as I mature into the hobby) And for me it's a nice cold beer or a tall icy rum & coke. I'll sit and daydream while the train runs loops all day. Aaaahhhh, that's my escape.

Trevor [:)]

[Anonymous]

Sam's book was excellent, and the point he made was that model railroading as a hobby can be different things to all of us who are in the hobby. There are really no hard and fast lines, although there are those in the hobby who insist there are. That said, I suppose I'd fall into the "crossover" crop - about 50/50 scenery and operation. Operation is fun, it helps hold interest in the layout and the hobby by causing one to learn history, design, electronics, and an operating scheme. Scenery is fun, too, because you need a pleasant and realistic world to operate your trains in, and building such scenery is not only satisfying and challenging, but really fun when that world comes alive with the trains rolling through it.

[Anonymous]

Yes It's a very good read mouse.

[SpaceMouse]

QUOTE: Originally posted by KenLarsen

QUOTE: Originally posted by SpaceMouse

I know this way too late in the conversation to ask a dumb question, but here it is.

What book are you talking about?

Playing With Trains: A Passion Beyond Scale by Sam Posey
(not sure who the publisher is though)

Is it a good read?

[chrismay]

OP TIL YOU DROP!!![:D][yeah]

[scubaterry]

I really enjoy designing and building the scenery but I have the most fun Operating.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by SpaceMouse

I know this way too late in the conversation to ask a dumb question, but here it is.

What book are you talking about?

Playing With Trains: A Passion Beyond Scale by Sam Posey
(not sure who the publisher is though)

[SpaceMouse]

I know this way too late in the conversation to ask a dumb question, but here it is.

What book are you talking about?

[jfugate]

I find Sam's terminology to be poor ... the Layout Design SIG discussed this distinction some 20 years ago now.

They called it "Engineer" or "Railfan". To me, this terminology is much more precise and to the point. You are an engineer if you prefer to focus on a single train, follow it around the layout, and run it as realistically as possible. You are a railfan if you prefer to just watch trains run, and the more trains the better. The railfan doesn't especially care what the trains are doing, they just want to enjoy watching trains run through nice scenes.

For example, I am clearly an Engineer, for I love focusing on a single train and running it correctly as per the prototype. However, I am a "stickler" for realistic scenery, too. Posey's terminology is very poor and as confusing as heck on this point. I may lapse into railfan mode a bit while running a train, but just for a bit.

On the Siskiyou Line, we use two person crews. One person is the engineer, has the throttle, and must run the train according to the conductor's orders. The other crew person is the conductor and is assumed to be in the caboose at the rear of the train. While the train is running, it's the conductors job to watch the train from the rear and make sure all is well. In other words, the conductor *has to railfan* his train (I know, it's a hard life ...)

I find the LD SIG's engineer/railfan distinction to be extremely helpful when designing a layout, but Posey's terminology is lowsy! I 'm an engineer and I love great looking scenery -- now explain that one, Mr Posey. [%-)][tdn]

[Anonymous]

I prefer building and painting structures over anything else.

[johncolley]

Part of the trouble with some folks is they have to classify and categorize everything and everyone. And that's too bad because there is enough fun and challenge for everyone's level of interest. I bet some folks even like to paint fingernails on their HO train crews. So what? It's a hobby...for enjoyment!

[jeffshultz]

I always figured that it was a sliding scale with "Scenery" on one end and "Engineer" on the other.

I'm definitely further down on the Operator end - I'm working on scenery, but it definitely isn't a strong point with me. It does need to be there though. As far as operations go, I'm sort of a disciple of Joe F's (I'm one of his regular operators) in that the cars need to be coming from somewhere and going somewhere else for a reason. But watching the guys discuss train orders and time tables ad infinitum on the Operations Yahoo mailing list makes my eyes glaze somewhat...

[Anonymous]

I built my layout for operation. I am not much in scenery, but a layout needs to have some to give it character, hopefully I'll have my scenery in someday.

[GMTRacing]

That's Sam for you - this is the most civilized long set of posts since the Coffee Shop.
For sure I'm a scenery guy - enough stress at work, and paperwork too for that matter. The two worlds aren't mutually exclusive though. If you look at John Prykes' work it is visually stunning and nothing says an artist can't do operations. I thought Sam was more refering to the motivation for building the layout in the first place, and of course Sam is the exception to the rule as well. He is an accomplished architect and designer, and when we worked with him running Datsuns, he was the best engineering driver we'd ever had. He could diagnose and suggest solutions to get the cars going faster instead of the usual "the car is a piece of ****". I thought the book was great,and it is one of the inspirations for me to try going beyond the 4x8 plywood with track phase.
J.R.

[Anonymous]

I love scenery and nothing else gets me giddy like an operating session.

I agree with Joe fugate, I enjoy both, operating on bare plywood just isnt the same as rolling through a nicely sceniced portion of a layout.

I've often said It's dangerous liking Maclom Furlow and Tony Koester

[Anonymous]

I have to call myself a 'scenery' guy, but not for tress, mountains, etc.; I like modeling the unique structures and machinery of the steel industry, and those pretty much dominate my layout. OTOH, there are numerous opportunities for point-to-point operation within the 'mill', with lots of switching activity. I just don't use a timetable, waybills or anything like that. Frankly, guys like Koester intimidate me - I have enough paperwork, schedules and rules at my day job, I'm not about to take them home with me!

So I'll cast my vote with the 'scenery' modelers.

[SpaceMouse]

I am a scenery guy I think. I say that because I have done only one real operating session and I had a blast.

Thing is I don't think operations are a one person thing. I'm designing my layout to be run by 4-8 people, but two could have a good time. I can't see hours of running by myself. I'd just put a loco on autodrive and build a kit or paint a loco.

[Seamonster]

I'd have to call myself a scenery person, not an operator. I enjoy building my layout, making scenery, detailing the town on the layout, building structures, etc. I don't care much what road name is on the locomotive or the cars it's pulling--I just like running them. I'm so stuck in the building stage that a very good friend of mine (not a model railroader) claims that I'll never live long enough to run a train completely around the layout and I'll never fini***he layout. Maybe 150 years from now I will prove him wrong! [:D][:D] However, I don't fit in Sam Posey's mold. He claims operators are technical types and scenery people are liberal arts types. I'm definately a technical type. Oh well, the exception that proves the rule, I guess.

[Anonymous]

To me scenery is everything but the movement of the train. My East Bluff Terminal railroad was built for relyable operation. It is now ten years old and I am still upgrading the scenery that gives the operation of the railroad it's realism. If you have a great looking railroad that doesn't operate, you don't have a layout, you have a diorama with a train running through it. Viewing that is good for about ten minutes, the time it takes to drink a glass of Merlot. Summary.... sit and watch or stand and operate...
I love to stand and operate.

Joe V.

[Anonymous]

Scenery man. I basically like to watch trains just run. Excess paper work and keeping track of a schedule in my hobby isn't very fun. For those who proffess to be operators--more power to you, but I can never be that way.

[Anonymous]

ya i like scenery but i love to operate (it could be switching, mainline stuff, or both).

[Anonymous]

I'm outside the box on this one. I want my scenery to be as realistic as it is possible for me to make it, even tearing out sections I think I can improve. But this is just to provide the setting for scheduled operation of various grades of freight trains with the occasional passenger local thrown in. But I fall short as an operator in that I do card routing, but am not into CTC panels. I like to run my railroad "dark" with train orders and using a schedule. I do not use a formal dispatcher, this is handled as a matter of course as each operating session proceeds. So, my scenery is not the best in the land, and my operating seems to fall short of those in the inner clic of model railroading. Maybe I should just give it up and become an armchair type, I might be able to handle that. Yes, Master Armchair Modeller #1, that does have a ring to it.

Tom

[Anonymous]

Scenery and running, mainly my old Hornby Dublo trains, on a large layout constructed since 1986. Enjoyed Sam Posey on Speedvision (now Speed Channel) and the special segments he did for the Tour de France bicycle race. Didn't know he was into model trains, bought the book as soon as I found out about it; great stuff.

[trolleyboy]

I'm a scenery guy, I will lapse into operations but they've never been the driving force of the hobby for me. Mind you I enjoy the challenge of a good switching sched. from time to time. It's funny though I was never good at art or artistic things but MR scenery IS some thing I can do. This is the first exerpt from the book that I've read but if it's all like that I think I'll be heading down to Chapters to pick it up. TB