Sam Posey asks "Are you an Operator or Scenery Man"

[Anonymous]

I'll also have to vote "None of the above." The either/or is too limiting. I'm building a highly sceniced point-to-point layout that requires "operation." I enjoy both.

Wayne

[bcammack]

It is a narrow definition because people are predominantly right-brained or left-brained. That was the point that Posey was driving towards. Artistic vs. Technical prediliction.

[AggroJones]

Scenery I guess. Scenic construction ranks second in activities I enjoy. If "operation" is defined by timetables and waybills and all that paperwork, then no I'm not an operator. I just like nice trains to flow through nice scenery.

[Jetrock]

QUOTE: Originally posted by vsmith
"The operators also tend to see trains as vehicles on a literal journey that has a beginning, middle, and end. (Scenery) People who are content to watch trains do laps see them more abstractly, as objects in motion, or even objects that, in thier lapping, suggest the cycles of life"

Gee, that's getting awfully existential...

If a train passes in the forest and it isn't on the timetable, does it make a sound?

I guess I'm definitely a scenery person--the yard section I scenicked last weekend didn't even have wires leading to most of it until this afternoon--I do it the lazy way with terminal rail joiners. Discovered that some of my lovely paint/ballast job had seeped in between a few chunks of flextrack, resulting in some dead sections of track. A little corrective work with a Bright Boy and some rail cleaner resolved things, and I spent half an hour or so shuffling cars around with my S1 to make sure everything is at least tolerably functional (one switch still needs a little nudge to keep current running the right way.) It was fun. I'm still planning on printing up those car cards, though, because it seems like having to pick out specific cars and bring them specific places sounds like fun.

Of course, now I have the yard and I have a couple of industries, but the two don't CONNECT TOGETHER quite yet...

[DonaldAgne]

Well, Sam, I guess I'm definitely a scenery man. I don't know if the ratio of track to scenery is measurable in any meaningful way; but, if it was, the ratio would be pretty low on my layout (not much track, lots of scenery). I'm happiest when creating a little world for the trains to travel through. My layout allows for some limited operations, like turning locos and moving them around in the engine facility, and the trains have to navigate a manual reverse loop at the end of the run. If I were to build a large switching layout sometime in the future, I might enjoy moving boxcars around in the yard for a while, but my main interest would be in trying to make it look as realistic as possible. I doubt that I would enjoy all the paperwork and stress involved in trying to meet realistic operating schedules. I get enough of that at the office.

Thought you might enjoy a couple pictures[:)]



Thanks for listening.

[cwclark]

what happens when you do both?....I'm a good operator, but spend 90% of the time doing scenery?...not a fair question especially to those that own their own MR's...

[Big_Boy_4005]

This is kind of a left brain vs right brain thing, but I agree with Joe, both are possible. Perhaps it just takes that rare individual to find balance.

Jetrock mentioned continuum, and that makes a lot more sense. This isn't a simple case of black and white, there are infinate shades of gray. Finding balance is difficult, but not impossible. The greatest model railroads feature both elements, but there is no right or wrong way.

It may not be as hard to achieve balance as some people think, because there are really two seperate processes going on, and they are not done at the same time. Operation is planned for during the design phase. Benchwork, track laying, and electrical complete the analytical elements. What's left is pure art, creating landscape and structures to tie it all together, and bring it to life.

It is posible to be both engineer and railfan, even if you can only wear one hat at a time. I consider realistic operation to be the highest level to which this hobby can be taken. Not everyone desires that level of realism, and nobody should feel bad if that isn't their style or taste. After all, this is a hobby. The most important part is to have fun!

[bcammack]

I don't think that any value judgements should be infered by this poll. Another way to ask was given previously and I think is accurate, "Are you a 'railfan' or an 'engineer'?"

In extremis, of course, you have Malcom Furlow at one end for whom, as his art matured, drifted farther and farther away from operation as even a remote possiblity and, at the other end, someone who may not even bother to ballast the track (or uses Unitrack) to produce a highly operable, yet minimally or unscenicked layout.

Obviously, the rest of the statistical universe of model railroaders spans the entire space between these two poles. I sort of grudgingly scenic the layout so that the final result will be a bit more immersive when I operate it. (a switching layout)

I think that the poll is trying to ascertain which pole you gravitate towards, philosophically and behaviorally, not which extreme you practice.

[vsmith]

Exactly, we all tend to "gravitate" to one pole or another. Its based on our deeper psyche. Are you a more Technical Degree or Liberal Arts Degree person? Control and operation -v-s- Observation and reflection. [?]

[BNSFNUT]

I operate my layout by time table and card order system but have a lot of scenery.
I like to switch a lot but want a realistic setting to do it in.
I am trying to model a complete section of a railroad which to me requires prototypical operation in a realistic setting.
But the nice thing about this hobby is no matter what you do on YOUR layout it is ok as long as YOU like it.

[LuthierTom]

Wow, an even 50 - 50 split! [:0]

If you count having accurate locomotives and cabooses (cabeese?) (e.g., cabin cars) under "scenery", I am *definately* a scenery type. I am an aerospace engineer, and deal too much with technical minutiae, micromanagement and control freaks daily in my job. For me, my trains are like a fi***ank without the associated headaches: it is very relaxing to watch them run through their little world - and I enjoy making that little world. I'll admit I am making it as an idealized world of my childhood, but that just helps the relaxing. [:)]

[Anonymous]

I have to count myself a scenery person. I have no operating layout due to constraints at home, but have been an operator at John Pryke's for many years. I have usually handled the Union Freight cab and was mentioned in Sam's book briefly. I love detailed and intricate structures with a realistic setting for the trains to operate in and will eventually have (I hope!) a street switching layout based on the Claremont and Concord Ry in Claremont NH.

John P's operating sessions were unique in that we had a timetable, but no pressure from a fast clock, when each move was finished, then we moved to the next set of moves for each cab. I have operated a timetable layout where everything had to syncronize and found it too much like work instead of relaxation.

Vic Hamburger

[Anonymous]

Huh, I didn't know I had to be one or the other[%-)] My profession tends to be technical to the point that it disallows creativity. Model railroading gives me an outlet for that creativity. So I guess that makes me a scenery person, a "liberal arts" engineer. Model railroading grew out of a lifetime of scale modeling for me. I am a stickler for accuracy of form, but applying the overall structure of accurate operations to something I do for relaxation and escape takes me in the opposite direction from that which draws me to the hobby in the first place. In it's simplest form, layout-building and the running of interesting trains upon it, are my way of hearkening back to a simpler time that I remember from my youth, recreating a world as I would like for it to still be, and sharing creative play with my young children. From that standpoint, my model railroads need no purpose or destination other than being an imaginative and visually interesting pastime.[:)]

[SSW9389]

I used to be a leg man before I got wheels! Count me with the operators.

QUOTE: Originally posted by CBQ_Guy

I'm a "leg man". [:D] [;)] [}:)] [^]

[pbjwilson]

I voted for scenery but it reminds me of a point that I have brought up before. I enjoy reading Railway Modeler an English publication. It seems to me the Brits modeling concepts are much different than americans. Point to point is very common and modeling an actual location and time is the goal. The Brits also seem to get atmosphere into their modeling. It kind of reminds me of the way Ben King modeled.His layout in M.R. had all the details, point to point operations, and lots of atmosphere. But for me my I like my trains doing laps in dramatic scenery.

[Anonymous]

My HO scale Eastern RR is a operator main line railroad

[camarokid]

I am a scenery man. I like to watch them run round and round. Takes about 10 minutes.

[Jetrock]

After a month or so of having my yard and industries set up and performing the most rudimentary sorts of operation (making a train using a half-dozen or so cars, then swapping out each siding with new cars and returning the previously set-out cars to the yard) I find I'm kind of getting hooked on it. Fixing bad trackwork and non-cooperative cars definitely moves into a higher priority, as derailments or other mechanical hinkiness immediately stall the "game" and bring one back to the real world.

Operation is also kind of giving me a taste for MORE LAYOUT--with six or seven car trains and only three sidings to drop off cars, the game is over far too soon and I crave more industries to switch. Fortunately I have another 12 or so linear feet of garage shelving built so I can double my available space and add a few more industries. Expansion will also allow me to get rid of my improvised "shoofly" between yard and industries which contains a wicked S-curve that invariably trips up my 50' cars.

[Anonymous]

Me Operator hahaha

[PennsyHoosier]

Why do both?????

[PASMITH]

One or the other must be dominant. it is a rare person who can jump between the left and right hand side of their brain.

Peter Smith, Memphis

[trolleyboy]

I'm a scenery guy, I will lapse into operations but they've never been the driving force of the hobby for me. Mind you I enjoy the challenge of a good switching sched. from time to time. It's funny though I was never good at art or artistic things but MR scenery IS some thing I can do. This is the first exerpt from the book that I've read but if it's all like that I think I'll be heading down to Chapters to pick it up. TB

[Anonymous]

Scenery and running, mainly my old Hornby Dublo trains, on a large layout constructed since 1986. Enjoyed Sam Posey on Speedvision (now Speed Channel) and the special segments he did for the Tour de France bicycle race. Didn't know he was into model trains, bought the book as soon as I found out about it; great stuff.

[Anonymous]

I'm outside the box on this one. I want my scenery to be as realistic as it is possible for me to make it, even tearing out sections I think I can improve. But this is just to provide the setting for scheduled operation of various grades of freight trains with the occasional passenger local thrown in. But I fall short as an operator in that I do card routing, but am not into CTC panels. I like to run my railroad "dark" with train orders and using a schedule. I do not use a formal dispatcher, this is handled as a matter of course as each operating session proceeds. So, my scenery is not the best in the land, and my operating seems to fall short of those in the inner clic of model railroading. Maybe I should just give it up and become an armchair type, I might be able to handle that. Yes, Master Armchair Modeller #1, that does have a ring to it.

Tom

[Anonymous]

ya i like scenery but i love to operate (it could be switching, mainline stuff, or both).

[Anonymous]

Scenery man. I basically like to watch trains just run. Excess paper work and keeping track of a schedule in my hobby isn't very fun. For those who proffess to be operators--more power to you, but I can never be that way.

[Anonymous]

To me scenery is everything but the movement of the train. My East Bluff Terminal railroad was built for relyable operation. It is now ten years old and I am still upgrading the scenery that gives the operation of the railroad it's realism. If you have a great looking railroad that doesn't operate, you don't have a layout, you have a diorama with a train running through it. Viewing that is good for about ten minutes, the time it takes to drink a glass of Merlot. Summary.... sit and watch or stand and operate...
I love to stand and operate.

Joe V.

[Seamonster]

I'd have to call myself a scenery person, not an operator. I enjoy building my layout, making scenery, detailing the town on the layout, building structures, etc. I don't care much what road name is on the locomotive or the cars it's pulling--I just like running them. I'm so stuck in the building stage that a very good friend of mine (not a model railroader) claims that I'll never live long enough to run a train completely around the layout and I'll never fini***he layout. Maybe 150 years from now I will prove him wrong! [:D][:D] However, I don't fit in Sam Posey's mold. He claims operators are technical types and scenery people are liberal arts types. I'm definately a technical type. Oh well, the exception that proves the rule, I guess.

[SpaceMouse]

I am a scenery guy I think. I say that because I have done only one real operating session and I had a blast.

Thing is I don't think operations are a one person thing. I'm designing my layout to be run by 4-8 people, but two could have a good time. I can't see hours of running by myself. I'd just put a loco on autodrive and build a kit or paint a loco.

[Anonymous]

I have to call myself a 'scenery' guy, but not for tress, mountains, etc.; I like modeling the unique structures and machinery of the steel industry, and those pretty much dominate my layout. OTOH, there are numerous opportunities for point-to-point operation within the 'mill', with lots of switching activity. I just don't use a timetable, waybills or anything like that. Frankly, guys like Koester intimidate me - I have enough paperwork, schedules and rules at my day job, I'm not about to take them home with me!

So I'll cast my vote with the 'scenery' modelers.