First Athearn Never has ready to run in stock their genisis line it seems they are emphasizing on. Kind of ires me not all of us can spend 150 Plus on a loco. The bethgons OMG for 5 cars!!!! no thank you. Ill keep getting blue box kits at shows and ebay. I do miss the BB locos though i think the drives on the ready to run are not as Robust as the blue box. I do have 1 ready to run loco just had to have Iowa Interstate 711.
I often wonder how many people that complain about the high cost of things have ever been in business for themselves. Ask someone that has only ever been an employee what it cost to run a business and they may be able to tell you some of the cost, but most are clueless.
It's like when someone drives a hundred miles to a train show and complains admission went up $.50 this year. They'll complain about the increase in admission along with the cost of gas it took to get there and state they won't be going to any more train shows. So they spend $25.00 in gas and an extra 50 cents to the $4.00 admission to get in. That's laughable! They don't have a clue of the real cost of moving their vehicle to and from the train show. The true cost is probably in the neighbourhood of $75.00.
When I worked for the federal Government we had huge a book that had the cost of operating every kind of vehicle imaginable. It made us choose the best vehicle for the job very carefully when purchasing. It also made us very aware of how much each trip cost. A good rule of thumb was, the true cost of moving a vehicle down the road is three times the fuel bill. I don't have to drive far before it is cheaper for the nearest hobby store to pop something in the mail to me. But then I wouldn't get to BS with the staff, and that can be worth the price of the trip.
MRR companies do have to compete. Like any other business it is a balancing act as to whether they will succeed or fail.
They have the freedom to charge whatever they wish, and we have the freedom to go out and make more money. So let's stop whining.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
Russell,Maybe I should have said some? I've had several to fall off on these boxcars:5347,5277s,and the 5344..
The last three I purchase had at least one step laying in the car's tray.One(LVRC) had two.
Again its a very easy fix.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Brunton richhotrainMark, your reply seems somewhat disingenuous. If you can deliver all of the details and more in RTR form, then why do you need a kit. ... RichHm. I wonder if you know the meaning of the word "disingenuous." I hope not, because if you do you're apparently being intentionally offensive.
richhotrainMark, your reply seems somewhat disingenuous. If you can deliver all of the details and more in RTR form, then why do you need a kit. ... Rich
Rich
Mark, sorry, no intent to be intentionally offensive. The word has more than one meaning, and I chose the extended meaning relating to less reproachable behavior. But, perhaps, a better choice of words would have been incongruous.
Alton Junction
BRAKIEmetal stirrups that has the tenancy to fall off due to the lack of glue
Russell
So is all thins complaining going to drop the prices?
The MFGs are reading this Thread and saying -
Well I guess it is time to RAISE the prices again - the complaining is only 5 pages LONG! ;-)
BOB H - Clarion, PA
Russell,I was answering Mark's comment.That's ok though.
The newer cars also have metal stirrups that has the tenancy to fall off due to the lack of glue.A easy fix like I mention.I have 39 or 40 of these supped up ex MDC boxcars and like 'em all.
I will say those 5 MDC kits cost me less then 3 RTR Athearn ex MDC boxcars in the same road name on e-Bay..
You will recall I have often mention I have a thing about boxcars..
I dunno..I just like boxcars.
BRAKIEAnd the more recent discontinued plastic kits use the exact same parts as the RTR version
BruntonSome of us want kits because we enjoy assembling them.
Mark,Odd thing that..As much as I like RTR cars I got this-not to sure what to call it-where I can't get enough MDC modern (74-80) boxcars..In fact I just picked 5 kits up off e-Bay at very reasonable price with free shipping.
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And the more recent discontinued plastic kits use the exact same parts as the RTR version.
Now stepping out and into the danger zone while switching cars I couldn't tell my old MDC boxcars from my newer Athearn supped up RTR ex MDC boxcars.
What's wrong with that picture or is my eyesight going downgrade at ninety miles per hour?
Some of us want kits because we enjoy assembling them. And the more recent discontinued plastic kits use the exact same parts as the RTR version. I don't want to pay for someone else to build kits for me, which is essentially what's happening. I want to do it myself, both for the fun of it and because the kits are (were) cheaper than the RTR stuff.
Mark P.
Website: http://www.thecbandqinwyoming.comVideos: https://www.youtube.com/user/mabrunton
Andre,I agree..If I was modeling the 50s I would need several PFE reefers..
I won't be buying any Bethgons either..I don't need 'em..
How many 5 packs are you guys planning on buying?
None, but not because of the price. I'm not interested in any piece of equipment that represents a prototype built later than about 1954. As I recall, Sheldon won't have anything to do with them for the same reason.
Now a 5 pack of these : http://www.intermountain-railway.com/ho/html/45532.htm is a different story. Admittedly, the MSRP ($32.95) is a bit lower than for the Bethgons, but they're still well above $30/car. These: http://www.intermountain-railway.com/distrib/redcaboose/html/RR-39003.htm are more comparable in price at $39.95/ea.
I wouldn't buy one of these either: http://www.intermountain-railway.com/distrib/ccs/html/ccs1301.htm, but again not because of the price. The C40-4 cabooses date from 1961. Now a C30-4, C30-5 or C30-6 with the proper paint scheme and graphics, sure.
Andre
ATLANTIC CENTRALJust this, half the Athearn RTR line is EXACTLY the same as the blue box kits they came from (except for better paint jos), and adjusted for inflation they are priced at almost exactly what Athearn sold them for as RTR cars in the early 1960's. I've done the math in a dozen other threads, i'm not repeating it here.
Actually all that adjusting and comparison means nothing..We are living in 2013 and paying today's prices just like we did back then.
What needs to be "adjusted" about that?
Modelers complain about high prices back then too.
I recall the flap when MR went from 50 cents to 60 cents and like today some quit buying or subscribing to MR because of the increase price.Sound familiar?
Each decade has seen improvements along with price increases..Nothing new this decade will see more improvements with price increases.
However,the price balloon will burst and the fallout aftermath may spell doom for some of the weaker manufacturers.
Here’s a good comparative as I see it.
Let’s say you want to build a shed. Many people have a couple 2X4’s laying around, maybe…., but do you have enough to build a shed. No. So you go to your local retailer and you buy the pieces and parts to build a shed. Now you find you have a pretty little designed cupola that needs ordered because they don’t stock it. Why not? Because they simply don’t get enough requests for one to justify buying several to sit on the shelves. Keep in mind the distributers and/or manufacturers don’t front the shops these items until they’re bought. It costs the shop to have something sitting on the shelf. They’ll only continue to stock stuff that moves. What doesn’t, they’ll order on a as needed basis. Same with the nails for the shed. Most everyone keeps some nails around, but not enough to build a shed and why not? WE can't justify buying that many nails on the thought that maybe someday I'll build a shed The concept of if I need it, it should be sitting there waiting for me if and when I need it isn’t reasonable. Neither is it for the LHS especially with all the avenues available to get these things other than LHS's. Maybe I need something now and again, but if I’m the only one, or one of a few, the amount may not justify the stocking of said item especially with the discounts cutting into profits. They need to make the volume. Sorry, I like the discounts as much as the next guy, but it still cuts into the end sellers profits and therefore his likelihood of staying in business another year.
Supply and demand is very relevant, but we need to look at it from reality….trust me, if the demand for an item is there, and I’m not talking a couple guys like something and buy one or two packages every couple months because to me that’s a lot but to a retailer it’s not much, they’ll do their best to have it there for purchase. They want to make money more than you want to spend it. But don't call up Bachmann and say "hey, I'm creating a railroad called Bob's railroad. Start making some loco's and cars. To which Bachmann people say "well, I guess we'll make a bunch then because if we have it available others will buy it too."
It’s the same virtually everywhere and I know there are examples of one off specialty or “great shops” that appear to operate differently by having a package or two of this little do dad or that, there always are and always will be, but by and large every retailer buys and stocks according to what actually moves off the shelves and I don't mean just to dust it. Look at the grocery stores. You can see what sells and what doesn’t as much. Peanut butter….I like Skippy. One row Skippy, 3 of Peter Pan and like 6 of JIF. Why. JIF sells most, but Skippy stills sells enough for small space. I would love to see an endless supply of Skippy peanut butter, but until they actually sell more than JIF, it ain't gonna happen. People don't buy more JIF because there's more available, ther'es more available because more people buy JIF. The store in your neck of the woods may be different. Probably is. Demand in your area is different than mine. You may be in Skippy territory. Frozen Pizza, baked beans, potato chips. Look at the amounts of one brand over another and you can see what people are buying. People buy a lot more canned green beans than caned asparagus I tell you what. Now from time to time there is always some thing that holds up an order, but for the most part if you go to a hobby shop and they don’t carry and have to order your item, chances are it’s just not as popular as you think it is or should be. Like I said, they only want to buy something people will buy from them. Not just buy everything and hope someone comes and buys it before they go under.
THAT is supply and demand. Not stock it and if it’s available they’ll buy it. That’s “Build it and the will come”. Oh you can say if it’s not there I can’t buy it all you want but it doesn’t work that way. Many places have gone broke using that concept. OP asked what consumers can do? Buy. If they don’t stock, order. An order counts as good as a sale. If a shop gets sufficient orders to justify carrying an item, they will. If they don’t, sorry, they won’t.
Todd
Central Illinoyz
In order to keep my position as Master and Supreme Ruler of the House, I don't argue with my wife.
I'm a small town boy. A product of two people from even smaller towns. I don’t talk on topic….. I just talk.
richhotrain Brunton andrechapelonAdjusted for inflation, the price 50 years ago would have been $26.77 for the 5 pack or about $5.35/car. ... 50 years ago, you wouldn't have gotten this, either: • Removable coal load • Factory installed wire grab irons • 100 ton roller bearing trucks ... 50 years ago (IIRC), Athearn had 3 locomotives, the F7, GP9, and Hustler, having dropped the steam engines they introduced in the late 1950's. As far as freight cars go, they had (again, IIRC), a 40 ft box, 40 ft reefer, a 4 truck flat car something like this: http://www.athearn.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=ATH92695 but without the load, a tank car, a gondola, and a caboose (based on ATSF prototype). ... AndreAnd 50 years ago, you probably had a black and white TV set and no Air conditioning, in your home OR car. You had no VCR, DVD, home computer or CD player. You might have had a radio / record player, most likely with a vacuum tube amplifier, though transistors were making inroads fast. My point: Production values and productivity have made great leaps in the past 50 years. I expect my inflation-adjusted money to buy a LOT more than it did back then. So what-your-money-bought-then comparisons are of very limited utility, because NO amount of money would buy you a lot of what we have now (DCC, for one obvious example). More generally: RTR rolling stock prices are absolutely outrageous. When the same car as a $10 kit costs $30 RTR and the assembly labor is getting one or two bucks an hour, somebody in the chain between manufacturer and customer is cleaning up on these RTR prices. Why do you think kits have disappeared from Athearn, Atlas and others? Expanded profits are why! Maybe they lose half their customer base, but if they're making twice the profit from that smaller base, who cares (except the customers?). End of rant. LOL I am sure that Sheldon will have something to say about this. Mark, your reply seems somewhat disingenuous. Perhaps the Athearn kits disappeared for the very reason that you gave in the first part of your argument. If you can deliver all of the details and more in RTR form, then why do you need a kit. The very fact that production values and productivity have made great leaps in the past 50 years would explain the fact that the RTR version is superior to the kit version. The fact that the RTR version costs three times the kit version can be explained by the fact that your inflation-adjusted money buys a lot more in the RTR version than it did back then in the kit version. Rich
Brunton andrechapelonAdjusted for inflation, the price 50 years ago would have been $26.77 for the 5 pack or about $5.35/car. ... 50 years ago, you wouldn't have gotten this, either: • Removable coal load • Factory installed wire grab irons • 100 ton roller bearing trucks ... 50 years ago (IIRC), Athearn had 3 locomotives, the F7, GP9, and Hustler, having dropped the steam engines they introduced in the late 1950's. As far as freight cars go, they had (again, IIRC), a 40 ft box, 40 ft reefer, a 4 truck flat car something like this: http://www.athearn.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=ATH92695 but without the load, a tank car, a gondola, and a caboose (based on ATSF prototype). ... AndreAnd 50 years ago, you probably had a black and white TV set and no Air conditioning, in your home OR car. You had no VCR, DVD, home computer or CD player. You might have had a radio / record player, most likely with a vacuum tube amplifier, though transistors were making inroads fast. My point: Production values and productivity have made great leaps in the past 50 years. I expect my inflation-adjusted money to buy a LOT more than it did back then. So what-your-money-bought-then comparisons are of very limited utility, because NO amount of money would buy you a lot of what we have now (DCC, for one obvious example). More generally: RTR rolling stock prices are absolutely outrageous. When the same car as a $10 kit costs $30 RTR and the assembly labor is getting one or two bucks an hour, somebody in the chain between manufacturer and customer is cleaning up on these RTR prices. Why do you think kits have disappeared from Athearn, Atlas and others? Expanded profits are why! Maybe they lose half their customer base, but if they're making twice the profit from that smaller base, who cares (except the customers?). End of rant.
andrechapelonAdjusted for inflation, the price 50 years ago would have been $26.77 for the 5 pack or about $5.35/car. ... 50 years ago, you wouldn't have gotten this, either: • Removable coal load • Factory installed wire grab irons • 100 ton roller bearing trucks ... 50 years ago (IIRC), Athearn had 3 locomotives, the F7, GP9, and Hustler, having dropped the steam engines they introduced in the late 1950's. As far as freight cars go, they had (again, IIRC), a 40 ft box, 40 ft reefer, a 4 truck flat car something like this: http://www.athearn.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=ATH92695 but without the load, a tank car, a gondola, and a caboose (based on ATSF prototype). ... Andre
...
50 years ago, you wouldn't have gotten this, either:
• Removable coal load • Factory installed wire grab irons • 100 ton roller bearing trucks ...
50 years ago (IIRC), Athearn had 3 locomotives, the F7, GP9, and Hustler, having dropped the steam engines they introduced in the late 1950's. As far as freight cars go, they had (again, IIRC), a 40 ft box, 40 ft reefer, a 4 truck flat car something like this: http://www.athearn.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=ATH92695 but without the load, a tank car, a gondola, and a caboose (based on ATSF prototype).
My point: Production values and productivity have made great leaps in the past 50 years. I expect my inflation-adjusted money to buy a LOT more than it did back then. So what-your-money-bought-then comparisons are of very limited utility, because NO amount of money would buy you a lot of what we have now (DCC, for one obvious example).
More generally:
RTR rolling stock prices are absolutely outrageous. When the same car as a $10 kit costs $30 RTR and the assembly labor is getting one or two bucks an hour, somebody in the chain between manufacturer and customer is cleaning up on these RTR prices. Why do you think kits have disappeared from Athearn, Atlas and others? Expanded profits are why! Maybe they lose half their customer base, but if they're making twice the profit from that smaller base, who cares (except the customers?). End of rant.
LOL
I am sure that Sheldon will have something to say about this.
Mark, your reply seems somewhat disingenuous. Perhaps the Athearn kits disappeared for the very reason that you gave in the first part of your argument. If you can deliver all of the details and more in RTR form, then why do you need a kit. The very fact that production values and productivity have made great leaps in the past 50 years would explain the fact that the RTR version is superior to the kit version. The fact that the RTR version costs three times the kit version can be explained by the fact that your inflation-adjusted money buys a lot more in the RTR version than it did back then in the kit version.
Actually, I'm not going to say too much. Just this, half the Athearn RTR line is EXACTLY the same as the blue box kits they came from (except for better paint jos), and adjusted for inflation they are priced at almost exactly what Athearn sold them for as RTR cars in the early 1960's. I've done the math in a dozen other threads, i'm not repeating it here.
As for Walthers RTR prices, agreed, a little on the high side, but most of it is off my radar.
Sheldon
BRAKIE ATLANTIC CENTRAL Andre, There you go again with all that math and logic. We have both likely caused many eyes to just roll backwards................. Sheldon That was a mindless comparison of the first order. Actually adjusted to today's prices which is more realistic since we are living in today's world and the cars are $40.00 a piece.. How many 5 packs are you guys planning on buying?
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Andre, There you go again with all that math and logic. We have both likely caused many eyes to just roll backwards................. Sheldon
Andre,
There you go again with all that math and logic.
We have both likely caused many eyes to just roll backwards.................
None - What is a Bethgon? Way outside my 1954 era.
richhotrainThe very fact that production values and productivity have made great leaps in the past 50 years would explain the fact that the RTR version is superior to the kit version.
I won't go there I won't go there..Must not go there.
Getting weak,weaker,I must not----
If you want to overlook the stirrups I found laying in the some of the Athearn supped up former MDC 50' (modern) boxcars inserts yes,production is right up there.
Thankfully its a easy fix..I replace the stirrup(s)add a tad of glue to the backside of the stirrups while I'm changing out couplers.I do all those cars that way now-save the stirrups from falling off later never to be found.
Apparently there's a glue shortage in China.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL And I do believe I am right about their gently moving away from being a "distributor", one day planning to just be Walthers Trains - direct mail order and direct supplier to big retailers.
And I do believe I am right about their gently moving away from being a "distributor", one day planning to just be Walthers Trains - direct mail order and direct supplier to big retailers.
Sheldon, you are probably right.
I'm shocked at the price of the announced 5 car set of Athearn Bethgons..OUCH! (scream intended).
199.98? Why? Adjusted for inflation, the price 50 years ago would have been $26.77 for the 5 pack or about $5.35/car. That's not bad for cars that are RTR, painted and lettered with trucks (metal RP25 wheels) and couplers. I can remember paying $4.25 for a wooden reefer kit (Ulrich, IIRC) less trucks and couplers in the early 60's which only had the car sides painted and lettered.
• Removable coal load • Factory installed wire grab irons • 100 ton roller bearing trucks • Fully-assembled and ready to run out of the box • Highly-detailed, injection-molded body • Separate wireform grab irons, etched metal coupler platforms, and/or etched metal roofwalks on select models • Separately applied brake wheel • Painted and printed for realistic decoration • Multiple road numbers • Machined metal wheels • Weighted for trouble free operation • Wheels with RP25 contours operate on Code 75, 83, 100 rail • Body mounted McHenry operating scale knuckle couplers • Window packaging for easy viewing plus interior plastic blister safely holds the model for convenient storage
50 years ago (IIRC), Athearn had 3 locomotives, the F7, GP9, and Hustler, having dropped the steam engines they introduced in the late 1950's. As far as freight cars go, they had (again, IIRC), a 40 ft box, 40 ft reefer, a 4 truck flat car something like this: http://www.athearn.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=ATH92695 but without the load, a tank car, a gondola, and a caboose (based on ATSF prototype). They may have introduced the 34 ft hoppers about that time, but I'm not sure. Of course, that's only listing freight equipment, as Athearn did make 4 heavyweight passenger cars as well as 4 lightweights, not to mention the RDC and 200 ton crane. Around 1965 or so, the line underwent a significant expansion, but nothing like the explosion of different models that have happened in the last 15 years.
Back in the day, if you got a decorated car kit (or RTR for that matter) for a given roadname, it only came with one number. If you bought a decorated locomotive for any given road (usually SP, ATSF, NYNH&H, Pennsy, or B&O), it only came with one number and in only one version (no variants). How many F unit (F2,F3,F7,F9 and FP7) variations has Athearn done since the introduction of the Genesis units? How many different paint scheme variations even for the same railroad? Just in the GP9 alone and just for SP, Athearn's done freight GP9's as built, the torpedo boat passenger GP9's as built and the freight GP9's as rebuilt under the SP GRIP program. Not only that, they were available with different numbers for each run. Back in 1963, if you wanted an SP GP9, it was numbered 5600 and it only came in Bloody Nose (Athearn dropped Black Widow for a number of years after SP switched paint schemes). That GP9 also didn't have the SP light cluster fore and aft (well actually, 5600 would have had barrel type Gyralights, but you get the point).
Rich,
I have to agree, Walthers is far from my favorite company in this hobby. In fact, as a percentage of models on my layout, Walthers holds a pretty small slice, with structures being the one place they might have a double digit percentage.
When it comes to rolling stock, I do have 30-40 Walthers freight cars, most of them 75' piggy back flats from way back in the 80's. That's 40 cars out of over 900.
I have only one set of Proto diesels, a set of C&O F7's, since their takeover, I don't see any more new production Proto diesels in my future.
I don't buy the expensive high priced passenger cars - from them or anyone, as recently explained in another thread.
Walthers has long ago lost me as a major customer. And despite the size of their catalog, they are no longer the "force" they once where in this hobby.
I agree about their customer service, it was once very good, but as time has passed I have had similar experiences to yours.
I ordered, site unseen, their new Proto F7's undecorated, when they can out several years ago. I was very disappointed that they chose to supply a 'modernized" version of the shell on the undecorated model. I called them to see if I could buy the as built early version of the shell, which they used on a number of the road names offered.
They had no such parts, for sale or as free replacements, even though the parts were listed in the parts list with the locos.
Since this made it impossible for me to build and paint the units correctly for my modeled era, I sold them. That was the last new release Proto product I have bought.
I bought some more Intermoutain F units instead, from my LHS, who ordered them directly from Intermountain - he even put me on the phone while placing the order to make sure we got the right ones - perfect.
So I don't have to boycott Walthers, very little of their stuff is even on my radar.
rdgk1se3019 Boycott Walthers.
Boycott Walthers.
Let's face it, Walthers sucks.
I spent $500 buying an 8-car set of Walthers Santa Fe Super Chief cars new on eBay. One of the cars was missing a package of grab irons which Walthers should have installed at the factory for the outrageous price per car. So, I email Walthers and ask them to send me the missing package. They take their sweet time to respond, only to say, send them a check for $10 to cover the cost because an eBay seller is not an authorized dealer. I write back and point out that I am a Walthers Valued Customer. That is someone who has spent an inordinate amount of money buying stuff from them at MSRP. I ask them to make an exception for me as a Walthers Valued Customer. They didn't give me the dignity of a response.
Dennis Blank Jr.
CEO,COO,CFO,CMO,Bossman,Slavedriver,Engineer,Trackforeman,Grunt. Birdsboro & Reading Railroad
ATLANTIC CENTRAL But getting it to you requires all those other costs. Sheldon
But getting it to you requires all those other costs.
Don't talk to loud you might give them a reason to jack the prices up-naw,they find reasons enough.
BRAKIE ATLANTIC CENTRALLarry, the cost making and selling anything is way more than the cost of raw materials or even subcontracted parts. If the production cost was up there like we think that $34.95 boxcar would cost $99.95.I know that much. A ton of material must turn out a lot of shells,car bodies etc made by one or two machine operator(s).A computerized machine probably paints the cars while another silk screens the road names and data.Might be done by one man monitoring the computers. I suspect the real labor cost would be in the final assembly line. I would love to watch a car made from raw material to finish.
ATLANTIC CENTRALLarry, the cost making and selling anything is way more than the cost of raw materials or even subcontracted parts.
If the production cost was up there like we think that $34.95 boxcar would cost $99.95.I know that much.
A ton of material must turn out a lot of shells,car bodies etc made by one or two machine operator(s).A computerized machine probably paints the cars while another silk screens the road names and data.Might be done by one man monitoring the computers.
I suspect the real labor cost would be in the final assembly line.
I would love to watch a car made from raw material to finish.
Larry,
Think about it like this, take the MSRP, subtract about 60% for the distributor and retail mark ups. That's about what the manufacturer sells it for. Subtract another 10-15% of the MSRP for their net profit. That leaves production cost. Divide that in half, that is the hard cost to produce - no marketing, no shipping, no tooling investment recovery, no distribution costs, etc.
Now, nobody needs to make 60% to run their retail business - but they need to make 30-40% - cut out the distributors 20% and you have the current model for discounted prices.
Obviously these numbers are approximate, and situations do vary, but you might be surprised at how close they are in most cases.
In my work years ago in the electrical trade, I watched all sorts of stuff being manufactured. Autos, machinery, food processing, paint, steel, printing, injection molding (not trains though), and much more. It is very interesting to see how stuff is made.
A lot of hobby shops won't order through anybody but Walthers. It's as if Tony Soprano is the salesman for Walthers. I'd love to give my money to a LHS (assuming I had one, which I don't) to support both him and the local business community, regardless of slightly higher prices, but if they can't or won't order something, then it's time to take the bull by the horns.
If the manufacturer's web page shows an item in stock, give them a phone call and find out what the problem is. I've done that lots of times, and the typical response is "all they have to do is order from us." The manufacturers invested the money to make something, and they don't get their money back and make a profit unless whatever it is that they have on their shelves sells. Every manufacturer (except one, who now has a full on-line store) that I ever contacted like this has told me that if I wanted to pay full retail and pay the shipping that they would sell direct to me.
In a city where I used to live, when I got ornery and demanded answers as to why my orders at the full-line (R/C, plastics, trains) LHS never arrived, I was told that the manager, who was an R/C enthusiast, was cancelling my orders in order that he could "make his budget." This was in spite of the fact that I always paid cash, and never stood them up on an order.
If you tried to go through your LHS first, and they can't or won't get something for you, it's not your problem if they're upset about you going elsewhere. They should have done something about it. Business is competitive, not fair.
BRAKIE I would love to watch a car made from raw material to finish.
Be prepared,,to do a lot of traveling,,for all the parts that make up a car,or truck,are not made on site,,
Cheers,
Frank