Doughless I think the percentage of society involved in model railroading is probably similar to the percentage of commercial activity that real railroads participate in. Simply, as the amount of real railroading has declined over the decades, its likely that the percentage of model railroaders have declined as well.
I think the percentage of society involved in model railroading is probably similar to the percentage of commercial activity that real railroads participate in. Simply, as the amount of real railroading has declined over the decades, its likely that the percentage of model railroaders have declined as well.
I would invite you to do some reading on this because your assumptions are not accurate. The railroad's gross tonnage hauled has increased over the last several decades (except for the recent economic downturn when everybody's tonnage dropped).
https://www.aar.org/StatisticsAndPublications/Documents/AAR-Stats-2013-04-17.pdf
Scroll down to page 5. For example in 1950 the railroads hualed 592 billion ton miles, in 2000 they hauled 1,546 billion ton miles, 3 times the amount they hauled in the "glory days" of the transition era. The year to year "noise" caused by overall economic variations is often more than all the annual tonnage hauled in 1890. The "City of New Orleans" song and the Penn Central was 50 years ago. Welcome to the 21st century. Railroads are alive and well.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
EMD.Don Lastly, we have the high end locomotive stuff for $200++ from the likes of Athearn, MTH etc. Out of my price range and budget but obviously not for other modelers. So really, you can spend as much or as little in this hobby and get the same level of enjoyment...which in itself is subjective to the individual modeler. It's all good! Happy Modeling! Don.
Lastly, we have the high end locomotive stuff for $200++ from the likes of Athearn, MTH etc. Out of my price range and budget but obviously not for other modelers. So really, you can spend as much or as little in this hobby and get the same level of enjoyment...which in itself is subjective to the individual modeler.
It's all good! Happy Modeling!
Don.
Don,I forgot to mention(silly me) the older yellow and red box Atlas plus the older P2K locomotives that can be bought at reasonable prices..There's still tons of Athearn BB and MDC car kits available for all modelers including new modelers.
Basic DCC operation can be had for around $85-89.00 by using Bachmann E-Z DCC..
Yes sirree it's all good for happy modeling.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
dehusmanWelcome to the 21st century. Railroads are alive and well.
They are alive and well, but they are also "out of sight, out of mind." Today's railroads are hauling coal in unit trains from mine to power plant, and containers from the west coast eastward. They stop in huge yards to unload the containers to trucks. We don't see much local switching to industries anymore. Passenger traffic is way down, too, as the automobile and airplane have made intercity rail traffic rare in this country. As healthy as the railroads are, they are not interacting with the public nearly as much as they used to.
At the risk of kicking off the other debate, I also think today's trains are inherently less interesting. Those unit trains are replacing mixed freight, and consolodation has left us with few railroads and many, many fallen flags. Today's railfan isn't going to see the wide variety of car types and roads that we did as kids. This diminishes the experience of the prototype and the excitement of modeling.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
MisterBeasley At the risk of kicking off the other debate, I also think today's trains are inherently less interesting. Those unit trains are replacing mixed freight, and consolodation has left us with few railroads and many, many fallen flags. Today's railfan isn't going to see the wide variety of car types and roads that we did as kids. This diminishes the experience of the prototype and the excitement of modeling.
But that's subjective and dependent upon the individual modeler and what interests him or her. Modern railroading is obviously not your thing, but to others it's what interests them. I grew up with diesels and that's all I model. Steamies don't interest me whatsoever. My young Son absolutely loves modern diesels and loves to railfan with me. Variety wise is also dependent upon where you live. We are lucky I guess in that I can sit in one spot and watch Norfolk Southern on one side of the river, CSX on the other side, with Wheeling & Lake Erie going over both railways. Coal, tank cars, boxcars, auto racks, and the odd stack to keep us entertained. Younger diesel generation modelers find a lot of excitement modeling today's railways.
There is room for everyone in the hobby and there is sufficient variety for folks of all ages to model whatever era interests them. It's all good!
Happy Modeling!
"Ladies and gentlemen, I have some good news and some bad news. The bad news is that both engines have failed, and we will be stuck here for some time. The good news is that you decided to take the train and not fly."
As long as we can argue about what the future holds (which is a rather preposterous idea) the future must be O.K.
NP 2626 "Northern Pacific, really terrific"
Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association: http://www.nprha.org/
EMD.Don We are lucky I guess in that I can sit in one spot and watch Norfolk Southern on one side of the river, CSX on the other side, with Wheeling & Lake Erie going over both railways. Coal, tank cars, boxcars, auto racks, and the odd stack to keep us entertained.
I'm jealous. Even back in the fifties, I grew up in a place devoid of freight and I had to be content with commuter cars on the Long Island Railroad, and of course the subways. Freight used to go by my apartment, 40 years ago, but I left that spot and so did the trains. That line now has nothing but commuter rail, too.
BRAKIE Burlington Northern #24The suggestion is simple quit insulting those of us who are younger, looking to start or are starting out. It seems like every time a thread like this shows up younger modelers get bashed. Hear! Hear! Your topic was well stated and should be remembered and thank you for adding your experiences.
Burlington Northern #24The suggestion is simple quit insulting those of us who are younger, looking to start or are starting out. It seems like every time a thread like this shows up younger modelers get bashed.
Hear! Hear!
Your topic was well stated and should be remembered and thank you for adding your experiences.
SP&S modeler, 1960's give or take a decade or two for some equipment.
http://www.youtube.com/user/SGTDUPREY?feature=guide
Gary DuPrey
N scale model railroader
dehusman Doughless I think the percentage of society involved in model railroading is probably similar to the percentage of commercial activity that real railroads participate in. Simply, as the amount of real railroading has declined over the decades, its likely that the percentage of model railroaders have declined as well. I would invite you to do some reading on this because your assumptions are not accurate. The railroad's gross tonnage hauled has increased over the last several decades (except for the recent economic downturn when everybody's tonnage dropped). https://www.aar.org/StatisticsAndPublications/Documents/AAR-Stats-2013-04-17.pdf Scroll down to page 5. For example in 1950 the railroads hualed 592 billion ton miles, in 2000 they hauled 1,546 billion ton miles, 3 times the amount they hauled in the "glory days" of the transition era. The year to year "noise" caused by overall economic variations is often more than all the annual tonnage hauled in 1890. The "City of New Orleans" song and the Penn Central was 50 years ago. Welcome to the 21st century. Railroads are alive and well.
I wasn't refering to the gross tonnage. That goes up as the economy, and ultimately the population and amount of goods needed goes up.
I was refering to the amount that the tonnage moved by rail represents of total tonnaged moved, and the amount that the total tonnage moved represents of the entire economy, which would tend to be less the more we become an information based economy. Basically how much trains are seen in everyday life.
Not really a statistic based thought. I think Mister B said it better than I did.
- Douglas
I'm sure glad we didn't have the internet when I was young. It would've discouraged me from joining the hobby. From the looks of it, the future of model railroading is talking about the future of model railroading. I suspect the real cause of its demise will be found to be so much time spent on that, instead of building models.
More seriously, take the opportunity to involve and encourage young people. Even among us old farts, there's maybe one person in a 100 who's interested in the hobby seriously, maybe even less. That's why there aren't any hoardes of young folks beating down the door. But when they do arrive in ones, maybe a pair or two, do everything possible to make them feel at home and appreciated.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
I can't really tell if this is serious or sarcasm. I think it's serious, but I'm not sure.
--------------------------------------------------
I'm serious.Make no mistake about that.
I'm probably among the first to defend (is that the right word?) a young modeler,a new modeler or a modeler with little skills..I never like belittling and never will..
BRAKIE I can't really tell if this is serious or sarcasm. I think it's serious, but I'm not sure. -------------------------------------------------- I'm serious.Make no mistake about that. I'm probably among the first to defend (is that the right word?) a young modeler,a new modeler or a modeler with little skills..I never like belittling and never will..
You can take it that Larry's interest is sincere. He's not one to berate someone.
Dr. Frankendiesel aka Scott Running BearSpace Mouse for president!15 year veteran fire fighterCollector of Apple //e'sRunning Bear EnterprisesHistory Channel Club life member.beatus homo qui invenit sapientiam
Did video kill the radio star?
I am just getting back into the hobby after a long absence. Why the absence? Lack of discretionary income. College, then starting my job, buying a decent truck or two, and having 3 other hobbies competing for my pocket money. It is possible to have more than one hobby, so just because somebody has an Xbox 360 doesn't mean they will never have a model railroad.
I could have started years ago with cheaper stuff, but I didn't want to. When I saw that awesome sound-equipped DCC stuff on the forums, youtubes, and from fellow coworkers (who oddly enough also don't take part in clubs), I decided to wait a little until I could start out with that.
I am lucky that I have several decent train shops near me, but unlucky in that I work nights and usually am not awake when they are open. But MB Klein is always available, and my cats love playing in the shipping boxes. I'm even pretty close to Timonium, but it's hard to justify spending 1.) gas money 2.) admission fees 3.) the time to maybe get an OK deal or two.
And despite what some people think, I don't see this hobby going anywhere. Maybe it is getting more expensive, especially for the better stuff, but that's all hobbies. That's all of life anymore, it seems. And I have no real interest in clubs, not only because of my work schedule, but most of them seem to want to model the transition era stuff. Not my cup of tea, nor do I want to sit around and listen to a bunch of (mostly) older folks talk about how everything, including modern railroading, sucks. Then they wonder why younger guys have no interest in joining?
Tom
(still a somewhat younger guy - not by much - that makes his living from that lousy, boring modern railroad.)
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
MisterBeasleyThey are alive and well, but they are also "out of sight, out of mind." Today's railroads are hauling coal in unit trains from mine to power plant, and containers from the west coast eastward. They stop in huge yards to unload the containers to trucks. We don't see much local switching to industries anymore.
Whoa! How long has it been since you been trackside? I see locals every day and NS runs lots and lots of general freights as does CSX.
With all due respect,maybe you should do some home work on you tube or trackside before making such statements? Nothing could be farther from today's railroads.
Less interesting is indeed debatable..
Frankly I like the looks and sounds of a GP38-2,GP40-2,MP15DC and SW1500s..I like the looks and sounds of a GP15 as well.
NP2626 As long as we can argue about what the future holds (which is a rather preposterous idea) the future must be O.K.
Must be OK..considering the feelings here!!
Here, around London ON we have GXRR running north out of London to Stratford to get through to the K-W area..with mixed trains..sometimes even mixed consists of old/new...one can model just about any era and type of operation...loads of opportunities abound here...
Any argument carried far enough will end up in Semantics--Hartz's law of rhetoric Emerald. Leemer and Southern The route of the Sceptre Express Barry
I just started my blog site...more stuff to come...
http://modeltrainswithmusic.blogspot.ca/
BRAKIE BrianinBuffaloI walked to school uphill both ways, but I had shoes! You forgot the weather. And in the blowing snow and cold rain.And I was thankful.
BrianinBuffaloI walked to school uphill both ways, but I had shoes!
You forgot the weather.
And in the blowing snow and cold rain.And I was thankful.
Caveat: I am not a lemming.
Where is model railroading as a hobby going? D***'fiknow!
Nor do I much care. I already own most of what I need to finish and run my 'last in this lifetime' model; railroad, and most of what I don't have will come from builoding supply and electrical equipment dealers, not hobby suppliers.
As for the future?
According to Robert Heinlein, the Emperor of the Solar System (in Double Star) is/will be a model railroader.
I also have it on good authority* that, as of 3626, the most politically influential individual in the Milky Way Galaxy, Senior Command Admiral T. P. Carlsen, CSN, has a large, detailed model railroad in his personal quarters.
* Madama Dame Sally Lady Belfrage, DCOE, planetary Madama of Britannia and Newmerica. Her three youngest children also have a model railroad, patterned on the 19th century Great Western Railway and its connections. Unfortunately, the Monolith Corporation, the company of which she is the Managing Director, doesn't own a single share of railroad stock on any of the 2,600,000 planets where it has holdings. (And now you know who will be the most commercially influential individual in the 37th century!)
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - when not writing science fiction)
Hard to say where it is heading, I'm sure it will survive, I collected stamps for years and years and wondered what to do with the collection as no one seems to want it, I phoned a stamp dealer and he said just use up your mint stamps on mail and he hasn't bought a stamp in years, he also is going out of business as no new stamp collectors are coming on scene, he said my collection is probably worth nothing except a few early valuable stamps, I can't even give the stamps away, so we have to live with the changes. BUT, one consolation is : I attended a train show recently and am amazed at what MR's buy, so---- if these few MR's still buy 5 times the amount of "stuff" they can actually use and add it to the basement full of their other "stuff" the hobby is in good shape. (have YOU looked at all the RR stuff you have? --am I right?)
BRAKIEWhoa! How long has it been since you been trackside? I see locals every day and NS runs lots and lots of general freights as does CSX.
Russell
jeffrey-wimberly BRAKIE BrianinBuffaloI walked to school uphill both ways, but I had shoes! You forgot the weather. And in the blowing snow and cold rain.And I was thankful. You rated snow? Man! Some people have all the luck! I had ankle deep mud!
Where any of you fightin' any Dini-o-saurs?...I think i recognize some of you did....
MisterBeasleyhauling coal
blownout cylinderWhere any of you fightin' any Dini-o-saurs?...I think i recognize some of you did....
tatans ....I attended a train show recently and am amazed at what MR's buy, so---- if these few MR's still buy 5 times the amount of "stuff" they can actually use and add it to the basement full of their other "stuff" the hobby is in good shape. (have YOU looked at all the RR stuff you have? --am I right?)
....I attended a train show recently and am amazed at what MR's buy, so---- if these few MR's still buy 5 times the amount of "stuff" they can actually use and add it to the basement full of their other "stuff" the hobby is in good shape. (have YOU looked at all the RR stuff you have? --am I right?)
In 3 scales!!!
Yet, I am looking forward to the next train show in Timonium to add to the pile.
My REAL hobby is modeling a hobby shop 1:1.
Enjoy
Paul
GP-9_Man11786As part of the younger generation of modelers, perhaps I can give a different perspective. I got involved in the hobby when I was 8 and my dad bought my brother and I a Bachmann HO starter set. My brother could car less but I thought trains were just the coolest things in the world ( no doubt contributing to my popularity in grade school). We have spoken about the demise of the LHS but I remember in the 1990s both KB Toys and Toys R Us both sold HO freight cars at reasonable prices ($3 a piece). That was very affordable and unfortunately has gone the way of the dodo bird. But my generation also grew up with Thomas the Tank Engine. I think Thomas helped spawn a new generation of model railroaders. Also, I don't think all is lost with the hobby. I volunteer at a local railroad museum. While a lot of our volunteers are baby boomers, there are also a fair amount who are my age and younger. We have a number of high school and middle school aged volunteers who are both modelers and railfans. In fact some of them are as young as 8. I don't think the hobby is dying, but rather undergoing drastic changes, some good and some bad.
But my generation also grew up with Thomas the Tank Engine. I think Thomas helped spawn a new generation of model railroaders.
Also, I don't think all is lost with the hobby. I volunteer at a local railroad museum. While a lot of our volunteers are baby boomers, there are also a fair amount who are my age and younger. We have a number of high school and middle school aged volunteers who are both modelers and railfans. In fact some of them are as young as 8. I don't think the hobby is dying, but rather undergoing drastic changes, some good and some bad.
It's good to get a fellow younger perspective.
There is so much FUD about the impending doom of the hobby...ABSOLUTE BULLOCKS!!!
What there happens to be is a failure of one generation to relate and understand the other. Let's face it, Baby boomers and Gen X, Y, Z, share very few points of relation other then perhaps a similar train interest. Even with a train interest, what younger modelers might enjoy out of railroading may be completely SOUTH of what the another generation enjoys.
Point blank, just because one generation own's their own house large enough for a permanent layout does not mean the younger generation can do this too. Different living arrangements force how we enjoy trains.
Just because there aren't young people involved in your club or group doesn't mean there aren't any Jr. modelers out there. Young modelers tend to associate with other young modelers or are using the internet and social media (facebook groups, twitter, youtube, forums, blogs) to find like minded modelers that can communicate at a different level. This is very foreign to many of you that are used to walking into a hobby shop and being physically introduced to people. I understand it may seem weird to be introduced to people over the net, but it's how I have been introduced to a great many other modelers and became friends due to this new world interaction. I can interact with people all over the world vs. being limited to the social group at the local hobby shop, if you are lucky enough to have one in your area.
So if the perception is the young modelers like video games, why hasn't anyone approached young modelers and introduced it as a game? The game market is huge (and related build it yourself game models). I see potential for a rebirth of the "Timesaver" head to head switching challenge where you can compete with other players through the internet. The DCC technology is there and a small switching layout as such could be built by anyone that wanted to play. ANKI Drive is a game where players over the computer and net control actual physical car models racing in real time. I definitely see a chance for Model Railroading to capture this and even incorporate the upcoming technology. How about a Railroad Tycoon type game where you compete your physical layout against other physical layouts in a game of supply and demand. When you expand your physical layout system, it would effect your potential to create more revenue.
I sure would like to see this dogma of young people of having no patience or ability to build real tangible things to be DROPPED...it's BULLOCKS!!! and it's a tired stereotype placed onto a generation by an older one that could try to do more to understand them. Chuggington and Thomas has generated more captivated young minds interested in trains recently then ever.
Hey, would YOU want to join a group of people where the older group stereotyped you for not having any patience or ability and was claiming your hobby was going to die?!
No thanks, I'd go make my own group. It may be on Facebook, and you may never see it from your basement, but it's still there.
Chris Palomarez
zugmann And despite what some people think, I don't see this hobby going anywhere. Maybe it is getting more expensive, especially for the better stuff, but that's all hobbies. That's all of life anymore, it seems. And I have no real interest in clubs, not only because of my work schedule, but most of them seem to want to model the transition era stuff. Not my cup of tea, nor do I want to sit around and listen to a bunch of (mostly) older folks talk about how everything, including modern railroading, sucks. Then they wonder why younger guys have no interest in joining?
Tom, sounds like you got thrown into the same boat as I
Well there's always Free-mo and RPM...demographics are a bit younger and more open to modern railroads
-C
Like a lot of other members have said, I don't think that the hobby will ever die completely but it won't ever be what it was in its hay day before the electronics boom and computers, the internet and video games came out. The young people of today not only find such a hobby to be totally boring but they also don't have the basic arts and crafts skills to build even the simplest layout. They grew up playing video games and are used to fast paced and exciting entertainment which model railroading isn't. However, I think there will probably always be a small percentage of people that will want to "mess with electric trains" as my nephew puts it for many years to come. The problem is that with the decline of business the locomotive and rolling stock producing companies will close their doors and the items that we now own and use will become very expensive and sought after antiques decades from now that will be in high demand. Too bad most of us won't be around to enjoy the profits...
Tracklayer
I see Jeff, my apologies Brakie.
Chris I agree.
Burlington Northern #24 BRAKIE I can't really tell if this is serious or sarcasm. I think it's serious, but I'm not sure. -------------------------------------------------- I'm serious.Make no mistake about that. I'm probably among the first to defend (is that the right word?) a young modeler,a new modeler or a modeler with little skills..I never like belittling and never will.. Ok, sorry brakie. I wasn't sure, I thank you for doing that.
Yeah, Larry. I thank you for doing the part I highlighted (since I am almost 52 years old and have been at this on and off since I was about 8). You always have made me feel welcome here.
What a great guy!
- Mark
Tracklayer Like a lot of other members have said, I don't think that the hobby will ever die completely but it won't ever be what it was in its hay day before the electronics boom and computers, the internet and video games came out. The young people of today not only find such a hobby to be totally boring but they also don't have the basic arts and crafts skills to build even the simplest layout. They grew up playing video games and are used to fast paced and exciting entertainment which model railroading isn't. However, I think there will probably always be a small percentage of people that will want to "mess with electric trains" as my nephew puts it for many years to come. The problem is that with the decline of business the locomotive and rolling stock producing companies will close their doors and the items that we now own and use will become very expensive and sought after antiques decades from now that will be in high demand. Too bad most of us won't be around to enjoy the profits... Tracklayer
Right, because electronics and computers have no place in today's model railroading?
I really don't care that much if model RRing lasts or not. If it doesn't, I'll find a new way to waste my time and money. It is just a hobby...