As a Lone Wolf, not by choice; but, by location, I have to say I would rather have more contact with modelers in my area. It's fun to talk shop and swop ideas. I enjoyed the few years I was a member of a club 40 mile away. I am a member of an R/C Model Airplane Club and have dun with that.
NP 2626 "Northern Pacific, really terrific"
Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association: http://www.nprha.org/
I'm a lone wolf on model railroading and a number of things. There are many reasons for it. I have a vision for my empire. In a lot of ways, it is an outlet.
Other reasons including the Groucho Marx quote that I wouldn't want to belong to any club that would have me as a member. Seriously, I have been in a number of clubs and organizations in my years. Too many lose sight of what it is that joins them and the goal of being a club becomes job one. For example, by laws and rules become paramount.
And I generally get my dose of personal interaction and model railroading when I want it. I don't want to be on a schedule.
MRR did a piece a few years ago on the Sipping and Switching Society of North Carolina. Here is an excerpt from their web site:
“Being refugees from various other model railroad/module layout clubs we developed a completely original and unorthodox organizational structure - none. That's right...there aren't any. The group is deliberately non-organized, not un-organized, but non-organized. Rebounding from great political strife, darkness, and gnashing of teeth limited guidelines were developed.
1. The club owns nothing
2. No voting and nothing to vote on
3. Anyone proposing changes to #1 and #2 is kicked out, drawn and quartered
Operational prerogatives are just as simple
1. Have fun (utility maximization though model railroading)
2. Run long trains well and often
3. Keep it simple s....d”
Unfortunately, while I live in North Carolina, Raleigh is about a 4 hour drive from Hooterville, so that is not realistic. But, I like their concept very much.
- Mark
Lone wolf is the way to go,i don't want anybody fiddleing with my layout and trains.
Russell
Adelie I'm a lone wolf on model railroading and a number of things. There are many reasons for it. I have a vision for my empire. In a lot of ways, it is an outlet. Other reasons including the Groucho Marx quote that I wouldn't want to belong to any club that would have me as a member. Seriously, I have been in a number of clubs and organizations in my years. Too many lose sight of what it is that joins them and the goal of being a club becomes job one. For example, by laws and rules become paramount. And I generally get my dose of personal interaction and model railroading when I want it. I don't want to be on a schedule. MRR did a piece a few years ago on the Sipping and Switching Society of North Carolina. Here is an excerpt from their web site: “Being refugees from various other model railroad/module layout clubs we developed a completely original and unorthodox organizational structure - none. That's right...there aren't any. The group is deliberately non-organized, not un-organized, but non-organized. Rebounding from great political strife, darkness, and gnashing of teeth limited guidelines were developed. 1. The club owns nothing 2. No voting and nothing to vote on 3. Anyone proposing changes to #1 and #2 is kicked out, drawn and quartered Operational prerogatives are just as simple 1. Have fun (utility maximization though model railroading) 2. Run long trains well and often 3. Keep it simple s....d” Unfortunately, while I live in North Carolina, Raleigh is about a 4 hour drive from Hooterville, so that is not realistic. But, I like their concept very much.
Very well put & I agree with it 100%. To me, the bottom line is simply this. A hobby, especially one centered around building anything like model railroading, is intended to provide the participant relaxation, enjoyment and perhaps above all else, creativity. The structured atmosphere of most formal clubs, with all of the rules, regulations, politics, personality clashes, infighting & attitudes Is simply not condusive to any of those three things. Creativity is best expressed in an un-bound, un-structured environment. And so is relaxation and enjoyment, to my way of thinking.
"I could never belong to any club that would have me as a member."
88gta350 UP 4-12-2 I might rather prefer a Round Robin type layout visiting club if there was one in the greater Harrisburg, PA area. John I'm in the Harrisburg area and would be willing to visit some layouts. I don't have an operating one myself, still building it, but wouldn't mind getting some experience on some other layouts. There's a club in Mechanicsburg. have you looked into it at all? Even if you didn't want to join there's probably members who would be willing to do some type of round robin outside of the club.
UP 4-12-2 I might rather prefer a Round Robin type layout visiting club if there was one in the greater Harrisburg, PA area. John
I might rather prefer a Round Robin type layout visiting club if there was one in the greater Harrisburg, PA area.
John
I'm in the Harrisburg area and would be willing to visit some layouts. I don't have an operating one myself, still building it, but wouldn't mind getting some experience on some other layouts.
There's a club in Mechanicsburg. have you looked into it at all? Even if you didn't want to join there's probably members who would be willing to do some type of round robin outside of the club.
Hi Dave--
Thanks much for your response. I hadn't thought much about the round robin type of informal organization until reading the responses to this thread. I would be interested, certainly, in having a few people visit or vice versa--but the folded dogbone single track plan (with only 1 stub siding) I chose is such that imo folks might be easily bored, and with a single track primarily DC only railroad (I can run DCC engines but usually end up having to reset the factory default settings to get them to run, using the MRC Sound Controller 2.0), I don't think I can accommodate more than one guest at a time effectively, and DCC fans might certainly not appreciate any kind of factory reset. So for me to "host" people might not be the best idea, unless I change my power supply to something with real (not pseudo) DCC.
I've toured the club in Mechanicsburg several times and do not believe that I would fit in there. I would fit in better with the members they actually kicked out of the club, some of whom I've been priviledged to work with on another person's layout.
Anyone in the greater Harrisburg, PA area is certainly very welcome to pm or email me.
Best Regards--
Sheldon--
I didn't realize you were so "close". Bel Aire is a beautiful area, and I've been to a local large scale outdoor layout there for many open houses, prior to switching back to HO. It's only about 70 miles from my house.
The best thing is that during those open houses, we often had WWII aircraft flying overhead--we saw all kinds of aircraft--mustangs, corsairs, etc. fly over.
"Membership has it's privileges," as American Express said. If you want the enjoy the benefits of being in a club, then one has to put up with the pains. I'll have been a member in my club, the South Shore Model Railway Club, for 20 years come September, and barring "real life" problems, I'll be in this club for decades more.
Because I've been a member, I've been able to make some great friends and have some great experiences. I've gone on the Acela from Washington to Boston, the Adirondak to Montreal, and taken the sleeper on the Lake Shore Limited from Boston to Chicago. I've toured Amtrak's Southampton St. Shops and the St. Lawrence & Atlantic Shops. I've operated an S-4, an S-6, an SW9, and a B23-7. I've been to Cass, Strasburg, East Broad Top, Wiscasset, and Steamtown. I've gotten a cab ride in an FL9, a GP28, and an F40PH-2C. I've helped various manufacturers create products, like Microscale's "MBTA Purple" trim film, Rapido's Osgood-Bradley cars, and Athearn's NH twin 50' TOFC. All because I have been a member of the SSMRC. There's no way I would have done all this if I had been a lone wolf. Sure, maybe some of it, but not all of it.
OTOH, yes, I've had to deal with club politics. We run by Robert's Rules. We are Incorporated and are 501(c)3 Not For Profit. We've had "blow ups". We've had bad members and incompetant officials. We've moved at least 4 times, and the club has almost folded a few times due to internal tensions (tho' not since I've joined).
But we're also 75 years old, so we must be doing something right.
If one cannot put up with the occasional flare ups, well, not everyone is cut out for a social club. And BTW, that's not to say that all clubs are worthy of one's time. Just as not everyone can be in a club, not every club is cut out for new members.
It's not much of a surprise to me to see that most people on this thread are "lone wolfers". This forum is a perfect way for people who won't or can't join a club to learn new hobby things and talk trains. Meanwhile, those who are in clubs don't seem to have much time to devote to online forums...or they don't feel the need to join up here because they get their hobby social interaction at the club. Let me put it this way; of the 70+ members currently in my club, and counting all the other members who have come and gone that I've known in the past 20 years, there's only two of us that have ever posted here to my knowledge (bogp40 is the other). That rather says something.
Paul A. Cutler III
I do enjoy the odd Saturday morning impromptu meetings at the hobby shop. It's a 40 minute hike for me, but it's the closest one that I have and thankfully the folks there are train people too, so it's fairly well stocked with the basics and a few higher end treats. But it's been nice to arrive and on occasion see other model railroaders milling about a new product or pouring over some catalogue. We stand around with coffee and yak about what we are doing with our layouts or other model railroading projects. It's just guys with a common interest in model railroading enjoying each others company for a bit. I think the comradery is good for all evolved.
Regards, Don.
"Ladies and gentlemen, I have some good news and some bad news. The bad news is that both engines have failed, and we will be stuck here for some time. The good news is that you decided to take the train and not fly."
Most definitely a lone wolf here. I live in a small(ish) town with no MRR clubs at all. Closest one is almost 500 miles away. We don't even have a hobby shop in town. It only sells very expensive toys and games. Outside the forums, I know only one other person into model trains and he does have a very impressive layout, but he lives about 1200 miles away. Seen his layout only 2 times.
Like a lot of you guys, I have an idea of what my little world should look like and don't want anyone farting around with it. It's my little getaway from reality.
Lorne
Paul--
Thanks for your opinions.
Yes, I couldn't have done some of the things you've done as a club member--your list is actually rather impressive.
Yet at the same time I've been able to do some fun things as more of a lone wolf modeler, as well as a member of what at one time was an informal small club of brass model operators...Some of those things I might not have done as easily if I was a formal club member. I've been invited in to see some really neat layouts and brass collections through personal contacts I made at train shows--which aren't always conducive to hosting a club-sized event.
I begged, pleaded, cajoled, sent color images, and posted often on the BLI forum to get them to do some paint schemes of (Santa Fe) RSD-15 that they had never offered--and it's nice to know that although it was a 5th or even 6th run of RSD-15, they have now had a complete sellout. Good for them! This also proves that if you can provide some decent information--and find some other people to agree that a given project can sell--you can actually persuade a manufacturer to at least do a new paint scheme.
Also--I was "that guy" who, while an employee at Bowser more than 20 years ago, was pushing for "gee, wouldn't it be cool if we made an Alco C-430"? I endured more than a few wise cracks about that at the time (from the remaining steam only devotees, no less), and my friend at the time, who happens to be the current store sales manager, also had an interest in that particular model back then (we owned 'em in brass, too.). It's really really neat to see something that was only a wishful-thinking dream all those years ago finally come to pass. (Yet it still took lots of other people asking for the very same thing on various forums--and also some of them picked up the phone and called Bowser).
That does prove that the individual(s) who squeak the loudest sometimes do get the model they want, and you can actually contribute, at least in a small way, by participating in the various online polls and discussions about "what should get done next".
For most of my life the C-430 was my favorite engine, and I'm just glad they're finally doing it.
Now, back to the Lone Wolf discussion.
AAAHHHH--OOOOOO
P.S. At Bowser's retail store, the Saturday morning "Cheers"-style discussions, which still continue to this day, occasionally help the boss decide which projects, what paint schemes--even what paint shades--should be used. They solicit input from all possible historical societies--and the Mexican modelers have been very helpful--but sometimes a finished sample model just doesn't look right under indoor lights. So the informal discussions still have a place.
As more of a "lone wolf" type, I love Athearn's facebook page with it's suggestion input.
Right now, I've identified a paint scheme of GP15 that they need to do, that I think will appeal to current modelers, and will sell quite nicely.
I'm in the process of identifying all the possible road numbers, etc. of the particular scheme that can be photo-verified, and then I will post the info. on Athearn's facebook page.
pascaff* 4) I like what I like, and model what I want. 6) I do not want to follow some groups idea of how things should be done. 7) I am too old and stubborn to change my ways.
4) I like what I like, and model what I want.
6) I do not want to follow some groups idea of how things should be done.
7) I am too old and stubborn to change my ways.
As to some of the other points: Everyones' work schedule interferes with their free time. Everyone enjoys their alone time. I used to ignore the club for MONTHs at a time. I went over 3 months without showing up to volunteer at the museum. So what? It got tedious. That doesn't make me a lone wolf.
8) If you want to visit my layout and run some trains, you are more than welcome, just do not nit pick.
And I still contend that anyone posting on this forum cannot be in the strict sense a lone wolf.
I'm a lone wolf modeller. My work forces me to interact with many people, and by the end of the day I'm basically fed up with most and would like to relax with something that does not involve others. Working on my layout while listening to music is very enjoyable and relaxing.
Here at the Abbey we take turns doing the dishes. For most of the monks there are always two doing dishes. On Sunday I do the dishes, and I do NOT WANT ANY HELP.
I do things my way. PERIOD!
BTW: We have our Lamb Dinner this evening.
Imagine that the LION and the LAMB!
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
BroadwayLion Here at the Abbey we take turns doing the dishes. For most of the monks there are always two doing dishes. On Sunday I do the dishes, and I do NOT WANT ANY HELP. I do things my way. PERIOD! BTW: We have our Lamb Dinner this evening. Imagine that the LION and the LAMB! ROAR
Really? You had Lamb for dinner? Did it come with rolls, and a side of peas and everything? Wow you are so lucky to have such nice dinners at the abbey.
I had Pizza for dinner. Imagine that! Motley & Pizza! And I didn't do any dishes either, paper plates are great!
Michael
CEO- Mile-HI-RailroadPrototype: D&RGW Moffat Line 1989
Holy Thursday, you know, a Seder Meal, Lamb, Cabbage (I'm not so sure that the Jews would have put the bacon on it, but that is the way we have always done it.) Yes, fresh bread, and the wine this year was a nice Pitite Sirah from Paso Robles, a gift from our winemaker.
Mostly we do not eat so high on the lamb. We used to raise cattle, but have gotten out of that business, so now all of our meat comes from the truck. Well, except for the lamb, Br. Placid went down to a neighbor's farm about 10 miles southeast of here and brought back the lamb (very much quite alive, thank you) and he took it to the butcher shop (Hamburger Meats would you believe, run by Kim and Tim Hamburger, and yes that is their name) where it was slaughtered and brought to the Abbey. Br. Placid explained how it was done, but I'm sure you do not want to know.
TZ:
----------------------------------------
I agree with your assessment and will add a cold faceless computer screen will never replace the friendships one can gain from being a member of a club.
pascaff wrote: I like what I like, and model what I want.
---------------------------------------
That has to be one of the funniest copouts about club membership I ever read..I'm a member of a club and model what I want..
------------------------------------
pascaff wrote:I do not want to follow some groups idea of how things should be done.
-----------------------------------
That's only at club level and you can do like I do..When in Rome do as the Romans..Simple no?
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
As I had stated earlier in this thread -
I am building my current Layout by myself
DOES That Make ME a LONE WOLF ??
Yet Every 2 weeks I have an Operating Session with about 20 Operators in!
That Doesn't sound Like a Lone Wolf !
From what I have been able to understand from the responses in this Thread
Apparently a Lone Wolf is one that
Therefore if one does not adhear to the above they CAN NOT call themselves a true LONE WOLF
Your Definitions - NOT MINE!
YMMV ;-)
BOB H - Clarion, PA
cmrproducts Apparently a Lone Wolf is one that Does NOT associate with any other known Modelers(as that might be construed as a CLUB)! Few if anyone knows HE is a Modeler (Definetly in the Closet - as that is the only room available) Plays with his Trains by himself (Doesn't Like to Share) Builds a Layout JUST the Way he wants and asks for NO HELP ( Knows everything) Doesn't get on the Forums (if he does then he is associating with others)
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
I wasn't intending for this to become...heated...in any way at all.
It was a question brought on by comments made in another thread.
I'd say that I'm in the lone wolf category due to mostly family, work, and other time constraints--and that I've had a few negative experiences with formal clubs.
So to me a "lone wolf" is somebody who models primarily by themselves, but might operate with others occasionally. The reasons the person models by themselves may be many: There might not be friends nearby with the same interests. There might not be hobby shops available within a reasonable distance. The person may have an "unworkable" work or social schedule that really doesn't allow membership in any kind of club, formal or not...
Many folks in this hobby tend to have rather strong opinions about "this is how you should do _____ ". They often are very well intentioned, but I've learned they may be very wrong, too. As the years have passed, I've come up with different ways of achieving the same goals--sometimes for a very good reason--so yes, I like to do it "my way".
I built what I felt I could afford, and could complete, with only moderate impact on the basement that my wife and kids want to use for other purposes. If I had it to do over, I likely would do it differently.
dehusman cmrproducts Apparently a Lone Wolf is one that Does NOT associate with any other known Modelers(as that might be construed as a CLUB)! Few if anyone knows HE is a Modeler (Definetly in the Closet - as that is the only room available) Plays with his Trains by himself (Doesn't Like to Share) Builds a Layout JUST the Way he wants and asks for NO HELP ( Knows everything) Doesn't get on the Forums (if he does then he is associating with others) And I realize that Bob is summarizing so this is not pointed at him. Those are some pretty narrow definitions. We are discussion a "lone wolf" not a hermit. I would say there are zero modelers that meet that definition. How would we know anyway? If they comply with the first two bullets they wouldn't have any contact with any other modelers, we are all modelers, so if we know somebody then they couldn't be a lone wolf. I would think that a lone wolf is one who primarily builds and operates layout by him or herself. Being on the forum is just like reading a book or talking to friends. The assumption that because they don't ask for help they know everything is pretty insulting. Some people like figuring out things for themselves. That's why people scratchbuild, kitbsh and build kits. I consider myself a lone wolf modeler with regard to building my layout. I designed it myself, I built it myself. Nobody else builds benchwork, nobody else builds roadbed, nobody else lays track, nobody else does wiring, nobody else builds my cars and engines, nobody else builds my buildings, nobody else does my scenery. I do it that way I get the closest to what i want. I do it that way not because I "know everything", but because I like doing those things and figuring out how to do the things I don't know how to. If I didn't like doing it, why would I have this as a hobby? I have picked a design that is small enough for me to build, but large enough that I need several other people to operate it. I am a lone wolf modeler, I am not a lone wolf operator.
Dave, Excellent summation, that's me as well. Happy to have others over to operate, happy to go elsewhere on occasion to socialize and operate. But when it comes to the "building" part, I don't see it as a group activity.
As for this comment - "Builds a Layout JUST the Way he wants and asks for NO HELP ( Knows everything)". well actually I do. After 40 years at this I at least know everything I need to know to accomplish all my modeling goals and I have seen very little new in this hobby in the last 10-15 years that would change any of my major materials or methods of constructiion.
Sheldon
MOST Model Railroaders, as far as I can tell are NOT lone Wolves. I look at every bio attached to every article and 99% (well 100%of those I have seen) are MARRIED! They have a spouse and usually children. They may model trains alone from other modelers, but they are hardly alone. Wives and families look in to see what they are doing. They give support and encouragement.
The LION is not married, him has no wife or children, his parents are still alive, but live in Pennsylvania and do not have computers so I cannot even show them my website. Sometimes monks will come up to see what I am doing, sometimes they will bring visitors up to see the layout, but they do not have the same investment in the layout as would a wife.
If the LION would keep the layout room just a little neater, he could encourage more visitors, and I am now getting to the point where the layout is worth watching, for visitors at least.
BroadwayLion MOST Model Railroaders, as far as I can tell are NOT lone Wolves. I look at every bio attached to every article and 99% (well 100%of those I have seen) are MARRIED! They have a spouse and usually children. They may model trains alone from other modelers, but they are hardly alone. Wives and families look in to see what they are doing. They give support and encouragement. . ROAR
.
Hey LION,
I am confused by the above statement, Out of curiosity I checked for the bios of every one who has a post on page one on GENERAL DISCUSION.
Tthere was one true bio and 3 who made general comments about model railroading. In fact you don't have a bio other than the description in your above post.
Also it is important to note that there is no single definition of a lone wolf as it applies to the OP's post but as its been said, being a lone wolf doesn't mean that you are a hermit.
Bob
Don't Ever Give Up
LION was looking at the bio printed in MR at the end of each article about a layout.
So, participating in this discussion means we are NOT Lone Wolves? Withdrawing from public appearances to avoid criticism is not enough if postings continue to expose one to public analysis?
The philosopy professor set a chair on his desk and told his students to write an essay proving that the chair did not exist. The best essay consisted of two words: "What Chair?"
What model?
cmrproducts ... Apparently a Lone Wolf is one that Does NOT associate with any other known Modelers(as that might be construed as a CLUB)! Few if anyone knows HE is a Modeler (Definetly in the Closet - as that is the only room available) Plays with his Trains by himself (Doesn't Like to Share) Builds a Layout JUST the Way he wants and asks for NO HELP ( Knows everything) Doesn't get on the Forums (if he does then he is associating with others) Therefore if one does not adhear to the above they CAN NOT call themselves a true LONE WOLF Your Definitions - NOT MINE! YMMV ;-) BOB H - Clarion, PA
...
Actually, I meet all those criteria including the last one since I am on the forums under an alias.
Yes, shockingly enough IRONROOSTER is not my real name.
from one in the shadows
Hmmmm, I would have never thought of building the model railroad all by myself as being a lone wolf. I have always assumed I would build my model railroads myself, but I would never consider myself a lone wolf modeler. So we are actually having a discusison about "what chair"?
Seems the discussion is almost now a list of what each of us think a lone wolf is, and how we meet or don't meet that self determine definition.
Exactly
Joe
Does it really matter? "I am what I am"
-Ken in Maryland (B&O modeler, former CSX modeler)