zugmann If I had to build models, I wouldn't be in this hobby. A major factor that brought me back is all the cool, RTR, highly detailed, sound-equipped locos and cars that I don't have to build myself. I just don't have the time or attention span to complete what I want. And if I can have models of stuff that I handle in real life - so much the better. Am I a true modeler? Who knows, and who cares.
If I had to build models, I wouldn't be in this hobby. A major factor that brought me back is all the cool, RTR, highly detailed, sound-equipped locos and cars that I don't have to build myself. I just don't have the time or attention span to complete what I want. And if I can have models of stuff that I handle in real life - so much the better.
Am I a true modeler? Who knows, and who cares.
+1
As I have said before, I am grateful that the folks I talked to at the San Diego Model Railroad Museum were excited to get me introduced to this hobby. They took time to answer my questions, including recommending that I start with Kato RTR engines and track. They took me "behind the glass" of the exhibits, showed me their collections and patiently answered my questions. Right behind them has been this community and my local MRR store. Thank goodness there are ambassadors for the hobby or I would still have a bunch of money still sitting in my pocket.
Richard
whoa hold up there are different opinions on how this hobby went, Space is a big factor we all know this and if someone wants to set up the unitrack, eztrack, whatever and run trains it's still model railroading. everybodies entitled to their opinions but remember to what's said there will be a risk of backlash. to each their own.
SP&S modeler, 1960's give or take a decade or two for some equipment.
http://www.youtube.com/user/SGTDUPREY?feature=guide
Gary DuPrey
N scale model railroader
The OP was asking about youth. IMHO, hopefully that's what we're posting about vs a general thread on why you're in or out of the hobby or what you do or don't like.
I've not seen anyone mention or suggest helping out with the local Youth In Model Railroading Division (as I do) nor starting a division in an area where one does not exist, or any youth oriented club. A few years ago my club actually put together a "family membership" option along these lines of thought.
http://www.ymr-online.org/
I actually think there are many fewer divisions than there were 10 years go. At that time Walthers almost became a corporate sponsor but they decided to go a different route. Youth organizations have many different problems than a normal MR club, especially when it comes to long time membership and shows. Children can't just take off on Friday to get the displays set up, and really can't just take off a couple days in order to get to/from the show in the next town on time.
There is a specific thread category on the trains website.
http://cs.trains.com/trc/f/218.aspx
The Reading Society of Model Engineers has had some success with the Explorer Post that they support.
I think that the problem is that so few kids are exposed to model trains. In addition, the environment at schools discourages playing with "toy" trains, and I've even heard of instances of bullying because a kid was into model railroading. Model Railroading is constantly viewed as an old man's hobby, and kids who are into trains as a teenager are viewed like there is something wrong with them.
Case in point. Two TV programs recently (NUMBERS and 2 1/2 Men) had model railroaders and railfans as characters on the show. In NUMBERS, the attitude towards the railfan was along the lines of "don't you have something better to do with your time than watch trains", and the model railroader at the railroad museum was 25-ish an protrayed as odd and possibly a little creepy. In 2 1/2 men, the model railroader was a friend of the kid's father and was a total nut case - but with a very nice layout.
Is it any wonder that not many teenagers aren't into model railroading?
Anyway, "Keep your stick on the ice."
Ever try modeling in Duct Tape?
Modeling the Pennsy and loving it!
Train Modeler The OP was asking about youth. IMHO, hopefully that's what we're posting about vs a general thread on why you're in or out of the hobby or what you do or don't like. Richard
I was youth at one time. Had interest, but never the money. Just had to wait a few years.... I suspect many of us had similar pasts.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.
NP2626 HAROLDA, I could not agree more! Don't get me started on how stupidly this country has been pushing SPORTS to children, to the detriment of education, which should be the focus of our schools and not sports!
HAROLDA, I could not agree more! Don't get me started on how stupidly this country has been pushing SPORTS to children, to the detriment of education, which should be the focus of our schools and not sports!
Given the skyrocketing childhood obesity rates, getting them running around outside is probably a pretty good idea.
Schuylkill and Susquehanna The Reading Society of Model Engineers has had some success with the Explorer Post that they support. I think that the problem is that so few kids are exposed to model trains. In addition, the environment at schools discourages playing with "toy" trains, and I've even heard of instances of bullying because a kid was into model railroading. Model Railroading is constantly viewed as an old man's hobby, and kids who are into trains as a teenager are viewed like there is something wrong with them. Case in point. Two TV programs recently (NUMBERS and 2 1/2 Men) had model railroaders and railfans as characters on the show. In NUMBERS, the attitude towards the railfan was along the lines of "don't you have something better to do with your time than watch trains", and the model railroader at the railroad museum was 25-ish an protrayed as odd and possibly a little creepy. In 2 1/2 men, the model railroader was a friend of the kid's father and was a total nut case - but with a very nice layout. Is it any wonder that not many teenagers aren't into model railroading? Anyway, "Keep your stick on the ice." Ever try modeling in Duct Tape?
I know I'm going to get in trouble here, but shows like 2-1/2 Men are the worst kind of trash on television. They portray the good people as nerds and losers while those of low moral character are glorified as winners.
Real life is generally the reverse. If you are letting or encouraging your child to watch that, you have bigger problems than getting them interested in model trains.
Sheldon
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Schuylkill and Susquehanna The Reading Society of Model Engineers has had some success with the Explorer Post that they support. I think that the problem is that so few kids are exposed to model trains. In addition, the environment at schools discourages playing with "toy" trains, and I've even heard of instances of bullying because a kid was into model railroading. Model Railroading is constantly viewed as an old man's hobby, and kids who are into trains as a teenager are viewed like there is something wrong with them. Case in point. Two TV programs recently (NUMBERS and 2 1/2 Men) had model railroaders and railfans as characters on the show. In NUMBERS, the attitude towards the railfan was along the lines of "don't you have something better to do with your time than watch trains", and the model railroader at the railroad museum was 25-ish an protrayed as odd and possibly a little creepy. In 2 1/2 men, the model railroader was a friend of the kid's father and was a total nut case - but with a very nice layout. Is it any wonder that not many teenagers aren't into model railroading? Anyway, "Keep your stick on the ice." Ever try modeling in Duct Tape? I know I'm going to get in trouble here, but shows like 2-1/2 Men are the worst kind of trash on television. They portray the good people as nerds and losers while those of low moral character are glorified as winners. Real life is generally the reverse. If you are letting or encouraging your child to watch that, you have bigger problems than getting them interested in model trains. Sheldon
Sheldon,
There you go, playing the morality card! Your saying your so much more moral than we are, because some of us view these shows as nothing more than attempts at entertainment. You don't like them, fine! However, I don't, nor does anyone else, need you to tell us what to watch on TV! Leave your judgemental garbage for your neighbors, this is America and we watch what we want!
NP 2626 "Northern Pacific, really terrific"
Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association: http://www.nprha.org/
NP2626 ATLANTIC CENTRAL Schuylkill and Susquehanna The Reading Society of Model Engineers has had some success with the Explorer Post that they support. I think that the problem is that so few kids are exposed to model trains. In addition, the environment at schools discourages playing with "toy" trains, and I've even heard of instances of bullying because a kid was into model railroading. Model Railroading is constantly viewed as an old man's hobby, and kids who are into trains as a teenager are viewed like there is something wrong with them. Case in point. Two TV programs recently (NUMBERS and 2 1/2 Men) had model railroaders and railfans as characters on the show. In NUMBERS, the attitude towards the railfan was along the lines of "don't you have something better to do with your time than watch trains", and the model railroader at the railroad museum was 25-ish an protrayed as odd and possibly a little creepy. In 2 1/2 men, the model railroader was a friend of the kid's father and was a total nut case - but with a very nice layout. Is it any wonder that not many teenagers aren't into model railroading? Anyway, "Keep your stick on the ice." Ever try modeling in Duct Tape? I know I'm going to get in trouble here, but shows like 2-1/2 Men are the worst kind of trash on television. They portray the good people as nerds and losers while those of low moral character are glorified as winners. Real life is generally the reverse. If you are letting or encouraging your child to watch that, you have bigger problems than getting them interested in model trains. Sheldon Sheldon, There you go, playing the morality card! Your saying your so much more moral than we are, because some of us view these shows as nothing more than attempts at entertainment. You don't like them, fine! However, I don't, nor does anyone else, need you to tell us what to watch on TV! Leave your judgemental garbage for your neighbors, this is America and we watch what we want!
I really don't care what other people watch, but you (or the poster I quoted) cannot complain about how shows like that portray model railroaders (or any of the groups belittled on those shows) without considering the "moral" aspect of it.
If you find that kind of stuff entertaining, good for you - I don't watch much TV - I don't assume to be more "more moral" than you - I don't know you - I just know why I don't watch stuff like that.
Of course as stated earlier, I don't feel any great need to recruit America's youth into Model Railroading either.
I simply find all this pontificating over it amussing.
Then there's the Big Bang Theory, which oddly enough has a main character named Sheldon that is into model trains.
Hmmm.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL NP2626Sheldon, There you go, playing the morality card! Your saying your so much more moral than we are, because some of us view these shows as nothing more than attempts at entertainment. You don't like them, fine! However, I don't, nor does anyone else, need you to tell us what to watch on TV! Leave your judgemental garbage for your neighbors, this is America and we watch what we want! I really don't care what other people watch, but you (or the poster I quoted) cannot complain about how shows like that portray model railroaders (or any of the groups belittled on those shows) without considering the "moral" aspect of it. ... Sheldon
NP2626Sheldon, There you go, playing the morality card! Your saying your so much more moral than we are, because some of us view these shows as nothing more than attempts at entertainment. You don't like them, fine! However, I don't, nor does anyone else, need you to tell us what to watch on TV! Leave your judgemental garbage for your neighbors, this is America and we watch what we want!
...
There's one thing we can say, Sheldon - he's a lot more thin-skinned than you! Maybe it comes from all the pressure of having such a heavy "responsibility to the hobby"?
DON'T TAKE OFFENSE, ANYONE! I'M JUST POKING A LITTLE FUN HERE!
Mark P.
Website: http://www.thecbandqinwyoming.comVideos: https://www.youtube.com/user/mabrunton
The amount of responsibility I feel about attempting to make sure the hobby continues beyond my lifetime, is somewhat irrelevant However, I suggest you two look no further than yourselves, when speaking of pontification on this subject.
My grandson showed some interest; so, I purchased a train set for him. That is the extent of my involvement in attempting to promote the hobby to the youth and future. However, I will tip my hat to those who do more to promote it, by supporting and developing youth programs! That seems like a far better and friendlier point of view than not caring about the hobbies future such as you two seem to be promoting!
If you truly feel the way you espouse, I really think that is a very sad position to take!
zugmann Then there's the Big Bang Theory, which oddly enough has a main character named Sheldon that is into model trains. Hmmm.
That show is funny - those characters make fun of themselves, they don't belittle others different from them, and they don't glorify bad behavior - but I don't watch that on a regular basis either - that would detract from model building time.
zugmann ATLANTIC CENTRAL I'm in this hobby because I like to sit quitely and build models, not becuase I like large crouds of people - young or old. Oh, I forgot, this hobby is no longer about building models - we just buy them RTR and drop them on KATO track. Sheldon If I had to build models, I wouldn't be in this hobby. A major factor that brought me back is all the cool, RTR, highly detailed, sound-equipped locos and cars that I don't have to build myself. I just don't have the time or attention span to complete what I want. And if I can have models of stuff that I handle in real life - so much the better. Am I a true modeler? Who knows, and who cares.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL I'm in this hobby because I like to sit quitely and build models, not becuase I like large crouds of people - young or old. Oh, I forgot, this hobby is no longer about building models - we just buy them RTR and drop them on KATO track. Sheldon
I'm in this hobby because I like to sit quitely and build models, not becuase I like large crouds of people - young or old. Oh, I forgot, this hobby is no longer about building models - we just buy them RTR and drop them on KATO track.
I'm not going to debate the "label" of "model Railroader" or "collector" or whatever, that has been done plenty in the past to no good end.
But I will say respectfully you are not really in the same hobby as me if you have no interest or ability in building models.
This gets back to this simple idea that we all enjoy the hobby as we see fit, with whatever products suit our needs and budget that are offered by the various manufacturers - it also speaks directly of "recruiting" new people - what "aspect" or "version" of the hobby do we recruit them into?
I vote for simply letting them find and chose for themselves as opposed to campaigns to "recruit" them.
NP2626 The amount of responsibility I feel about attempting to make sure the hobby continues beyond my lifetime, is somewhat irrelevant However, I suggest you two look no further than yourselves, when speaking of pontification on this subject. My grandson showed some interest; so, I purchased a train set for him. That is the extent of my involvement in attempting to promote the hobby to the youth and future. However, I will tip my hat to those who do more to promote it, by supporting and developing youth programs! That seems like a far better and friendlier point of view than not caring about the hobbies future such as you two seem to be promoting! If you truly feel the way you espouse, I really think that is a very sad position to take!
If you have read ALL my posts in this thread, you would know that I have already spent a portion of my life assisting and teaching those new to this hobby.
And, I do take personal responsibility for my children/grandchildren if they show interest.
But I'm not a social bug, club joiner, school teacher, scout leader, etc,etc.
And I believe this is largely an adult hobby - at least my version of it is an adult hobby - so I'm not going out and spend time getting the children of strangers to be interested in model trains, and even less so regarding adults.
I would suggest current readers of this thread go back and read the beginning of the thread.
zugmann Am I a true modeler? Who knows, and who cares.
Am I a true modeler?
By my definition of what modeling means, no your not a modeler. Being a modeler, modeling and having models has to do with building models from scratch; or, a kit. Having been involved in modeling and being a modeler building models since the mid 1950s, my definition stems from that era.
I know that definitions seem to be in a state of flux today and are redefined regularly. The rest of you can define what modeling is with your own definitions! For me however, I'm staying with what I believe models modeling and modelers are all about and that is "building models".
Don't worry, eventually these terms WILL morph into meaning simply to buy RTR stuff and you folks who have no interest in building and only want to buy your equipment, will be given the "Highly Esteemed" monikers of "Genuine Modelers"! However, all of us old "Stick in the Mud" model railroading "Codgers" will need to be dead first!
Schuylkill and Susquehanna I think that the problem is that so few kids are exposed to model trains. In addition, the environment at schools discourages playing with "toy" trains, and I've even heard of instances of bullying because a kid was into model railroading. Model Railroading is constantly viewed as an old man's hobby, and kids who are into trains as a teenager are viewed like there is something wrong with them.
Well, let's face it, it is an old man's hobby.
Most of us old guys first picked up on the hobby as kids in the 1940s and 1950s with Lionel and American Flyer trains.
Most of us continued, on and off, in the hobby ever since, picking up on the HO scale side of the hobby because of added realism and the greater availability of product.
At one time, very little was available in the form of RTR, so we had to rely on kits and scratch building.
For the most part, today's kids have no interest in model railroading. So what?
Most kids today have no interest in stamp collecting or coin collecting or marbles or toy soldiers.
Kids today have more access to organized sports, computer and video games. As kids, we didn't.
Times change. Get with the times. Enjoy the hobby of model railroading. These are the glory days.
I would suggest that as we all die off, so will the hobby. It will take its place along side stamp collecting, coin collecting, marbles and toy soldiers.
Save your energy and quit worrying about bringing today's younger generation into the hobby.
Ain't gonna happen.
Rich
Alton Junction
I hid my interest in Model Railroading and Model Airplanes for fear of ridicule when I was a kid back in the 50s and 60s, so the fear of ridicule for ones interests has always been around.
There seems to be two positions on this subject: those who say: "Stop worrying about whether kids become involved" and those who care about getting kids involved and are doing something in attempts to bring kids into the hobby. I have to wonder: If you have no interest in kids getting involved, why would you even take the time to make comment? Are you saying those who take an interest, are wrong for doing it?
I think that the logical starting point is to look at it from the kid's point of view.
I have three children and six grandchildren.
All have seen my layout, and all have been exposed to model railroading.
None of them has shown any inclination to take up model railroading.
My efforts stop there.
For those among us who may be interested in more actively promoting the hobby among members of the younger generation, there is nothing wrong with that.
It is just my opinion that they are fighting a losing battle. Still, if you want to fight the good fight, you have every right to do so.
This has drifted a bit. My point was that popular TV shows today give a negative impression of model railroading. Besides 2 1/2 men and NUMB3RS, there was a 3rd show I saw that gave a negtive impression of model railroading. I think it was one of the NCIS shows. These are all shows that are commonly watched, and all have given a bad impression of model railroading.
The negative impression isn't the only problem. I mentioned bullying, and somebody else said that in the 50s and 60s they had to hide their Model Aviation and Model Railroader. THE SITUATION IS SCHOOLS IS WORSE TODAY. I should know, I've been there. Openly dispaling an issue of MR in the hallways is just asking for trouble. (Fortunately, I wasn't dumb enough to try it.) Even in classrooms, you will still get hassled a little about being into trains.
In addition, the classic way of getting into trains with Loinel or American Flyer or other train set is becoming less and less common. In the 50s and 60s, almost every family had a train under the tree, and the stereotype was that women did knitting or sewing, and the men had a train set. Today, many households do not have a train under the tree, and kids are not being exposed as much to trains.
I'm not saying anybody is wrong here for what they want to do. If Zugman's (sorry if I misspelled that) idea of model railroading is assembling as much RTR as he can into his layout, that's fine for him. That's not Sheldon's idea of model railroading, and that's fine for him, too. I'm more towards Sheldon's end of the spectrum, and (guess what), that's fine for me.
If someone feels an obligation to promote the hobby, that's fine. What I'm saying is that I don't.
I'm not into PROMOTING the hobby - either someone likes trains or they don't. If they do, I'll help them out if they decide to try model railroading, but I'm not going to push it at anyone.
richhotrain I think that the logical starting point is to look at it from the kid's point of view. I have three children and six grandchildren. All have seen my layout, and all have been exposed to model railroading. None of them has shown any inclination to take up model railroading. My efforts stop there. For those among us who may be interested in more actively promoting the hobby among members of the younger generation, there is nothing wrong with that. It is just my opinion that they are fighting a losing battle. Still, if you want to fight the good fight, you have every right to do so. Rich
I think Rich has summed this up pretty well.
I will simply repeat/add the opinion that beyond train sets around the Christmas tree, this is, and always has been an adult hobby - in terms of the required skills, space and means.
Some of us, like myself, got a good start as teens because we gravitated to the needed skills and we had some sort of mentor or mentors who helped us.
I suspect that still goes on today on a one to one basis like it did for me. But few of my friends in the late 60's or early 70's when I was a teen understood or were interested in my hobby - same as today.
Had I not shown an interest, I doubt my father would have built that first layout for me at age 10. But three years later I was building locos and cars from craftsman kits - not every 13 year old has that skill set or interest in those sorts of activities - then or now.
zugmann Train Modeler The OP was asking about youth. IMHO, hopefully that's what we're posting about vs a general thread on why you're in or out of the hobby or what you do or don't like. Richard I was youth at one time. Had interest, but never the money. Just had to wait a few years.... I suspect many of us had similar pasts.
Zugman,
You're right that most of us in the hobby today had an interest when we were younger. And of course when you're young and not working you don't have a lot of money. In my case I went onto college, working overseas, started a few companies, got married, had kids and with all that never found the time until the last several years. My kids liked trains more when they were younger, but now that they're older(HS/college) other things are taking up their time too--to me, this is normal. I believe they will come back to it, as I and you did. To what extent they come back, I don't know. I wouldn't be surprised if my son started a mfg company making train merchandise--I've considered it. My son still invites people over for trains and they enjoy it. I don't believe in pushing the hobby onto someone, but inviting/sharing, answering questions as we do here in this blog is different.
I am glad you came back as well as the many others. Not that I need or want to be a part of a hobby with a huge following, but as exhibited here--one where some are passionate.
OK, guys, enough of the bickering. Talk about trains, or don't say anything at all. Continue attacking each other, and you will be put on moderation.
--Steven Otte, Model Railroader senior associate editorsotte@kalmbach.com
If the kids are exposed to it, they will be attracted to it.
A couple of years ago, we invited my daughters ringette team (9 yr olds) including parents over for a party.
I had about 20 kids in the train room at one time, several of the girls stayed in the train room for most of the time they were here.
Gordon
Brought to you by the letters C.P.R. as well as D&H!
K1a - all the way
My opinion is that kids really aren't exposed to the Model Railroading hobby anymore. Many have no idea that the hobby even exists. It's not like it was when us 50-60 & 70 year olds where kids and almost every kid had a trainset and certainly if they didn't, a neighbor kid did that you could fool around with.
Simple exposure to the hobby can trigger an interest and a new model railroader and I think this is an easy painless way to promote the hobby!
Whenever I complete a project on my layout, I send out pictures of them. My middle granddaughter saw them and she loves it. So, for Christmas two years ago, I bought her first train set. I'm sure as she gets older, other things with occupy her time, but if you light the spark, you just never know.
Marlon
See pictures of the Clinton-Golden Valley RR
LION grew up on Long Island. Dad rode the train everyday to work. I remember going with mom to drive dad to the station. In those days the LIRR tracks in Merrick were not elevated, and while I never saw a steam engine running on this part of the railroad, they were still in service elsewhere.
The trains were all electric mu sets, running on the third rail. The third rail was right there on the ground for everybody to see. There were two tracks, there was a hairpin fence between the two tracks so that people would not walk across the tracks. The station was a wood frame building, there was an asphalt walk from the station which was on the East bound side, across the tracks to the westbound track, and is where commuters would have to gather to wait for trains to the city. There was a bit of an arcade in that big white building north of the tracks, there was a barber shop in there, and as lunch counter / newsstand on the corner of Merrick Avenue and the Railroad track.
I remember when there was a gate-man in a little house on the west side of the avenue, and he would come out and lower the crossing gates with a crank. It lowered the gates at Merrick Avenue (four quadrant gates) and the gates a block to the east as well.
I remember when the man with the crank was replaced with automatic gates. But Freeport, the next town toward the city did not get automatic gates. My father explained that these tracks were to be elevated, and so there was no point in replacing those gates now. And indeed those tracks were elevated, ours remained at street grade level.
I remember riding those trains with my father: I liked riding on the double decker cars even though those were sometimes smoking cars. Mom would notice if we sat in the smoker. A little later, I was old enough to ride on the trains and to go to the city by myself. On the way home, from Penn Station all the way to Freeport were at elevated platforms, then the conductors raised the trap doors in the vestibules, and would open the train-line doors. From that point I would move down to the lowest step, with one foot on the train and one hand on the grip as the train swept into the station.
In the parking lot, there was a flag pole and a grave. The grave was that of a dog who loved the trains and was always around the station. He was a favorite with the commuters. Now the station is elevated, and I do not believe that their is any marker for the dog. I also began riding on the city subways, and found out that I liked the subways even better than the railroad. What else could a kid do all day for 15c?
I grew older, and I worked in Manhattan, and so I too was a commuter on the Long Island Rail Road. I would ride up front, and in those days the engineer occupied a little booth in the corner of the car, and so passengers could if they wanted stand at the "Rail Fan Window" aka the storm door. I'd catch the 6:06 train every morning, and most mornings the Navy could have set its observatory to the train time, but if it was late, the cold winter wind on Long Island could be colder than that in North Dakota.
To make a short story long, I was hooked on trains. When I was about seven or eight, I asked my parents for a train set for Christmas and an American Flyer set appeared under the tree, after many years I graduated to HO trains and dad kept the American Flyers, they eventually were given to grand children.
After about 10th grade I sold the trains to a neighbor and bought a printing press. After I joined the Navy, I began buying more trains while stationed in Japan. So when I got out of the Navy, I had both trains and a printing press. Eventually the press was sold, and the trains followed me to North Dakota. Here in North Dakota the layout grew to fill up the space that it was in, but railroads tend to do that do they not.
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS