Paul3 So far, the only method for installing "glass" in models that I haven't seen mentioned here yet is one I use from time to time: Magic Tape. Note: not ordinary clear celephane tape, but 3M brand "Magic Tape". Believe it or not, it works. I only use it when I'm using 0.005" clear plastic in strips to put glass in brass passenger cars or cabooses (and some engines). I take small pieces of Magic Tape and use tweasers to stick it where it's got to be stuck. Magic Tape is also useful for holding lightbulb wires in place in brass engines. The thing about Magic Tape is that it doesn't dry out and disintegrate like normal celephane tape does. I have cars & locos that I've used this method on over 15 years ago, and the tape is still holding just fine. The guy I got the idea from has been using it for over 25 years, so I'm not sure how long it'll last...but it seems to be holding on so far. Paul A. Cutler III
So far, the only method for installing "glass" in models that I haven't seen mentioned here yet is one I use from time to time: Magic Tape. Note: not ordinary clear celephane tape, but 3M brand "Magic Tape".
Believe it or not, it works. I only use it when I'm using 0.005" clear plastic in strips to put glass in brass passenger cars or cabooses (and some engines). I take small pieces of Magic Tape and use tweasers to stick it where it's got to be stuck. Magic Tape is also useful for holding lightbulb wires in place in brass engines.
The thing about Magic Tape is that it doesn't dry out and disintegrate like normal celephane tape does. I have cars & locos that I've used this method on over 15 years ago, and the tape is still holding just fine. The guy I got the idea from has been using it for over 25 years, so I'm not sure how long it'll last...but it seems to be holding on so far.
Paul A. Cutler III
Thanks Paul. I like this idea. So you tape OVER the window? You install the window with the tape correct? Sounds like a great idea.
I found that Loctite liquid superglue works great for securing clear glazing. It doesn't seem to fog up like Jet Dry or whatever the store band is "Hobbytown USA", "Trains and Lanes", etc. Alternatively, use Micro Scale Crystal Clear.
Modeling the Pennsy and loving it!
Paul,
I have not read the previous replies so this may be "old news"............ Testors has "Clear Parts cement & Window Maker", which comes in a white squeeze bottle - the same size as their plastic cement.
It is a major improvement over anything else I've ever tried!
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
bogp40 Paul_in_GA bogp40 Paul now that you have the Future Floor "Finish" there are other uses, you can also use this product to spot "gloss" any areas that you will need to decal if surface isn't glossed already. I too prefer Canopy cement, however, I still have never had issues w/ gluing clear styrene w/ Testor's liquid. Cut and fit, handle piece w/ tweezers to place and add drops of cement to corners w/ a small paintbrush. The capillary action "wicks" the very liquid cement under the clear but I have never had it show past the frame. Thanks. No wonder it fogged. I was using a gel CA glue I bought at Hobby Lobby. I have the Testors liquid in the bottle. I cut off the brush and use the little brushes you can buy to glue things. Question, now that the windows are out and "floor waxed" I will most likely have to scrape some of the wax off for the Testors to adhere right? I gotta tell ya, windows are the worst. I even had my wife buy me some plastic binder stuff at Office Depot but she bought the cloudy stuff, not the crystal clear stuff. I'll have to go later and look to see what they have because I want to find an easier way. I do like that product that makes windows by Micro-Mark though. Might give that a try too. Thanks again. Paul Paul, Future Floor "Finish" is an acrylic finish not a wax, quite similar to Last and Last. The Testor's is aggressive enough to bond/ melt the plastic w/o trouble. Agreed, raw clean styrene will provide the best bond, but windows don't need much and they will not see any stress/ abuse, so a serious penetrating bond isn't needed like on other parts. The Testor's will work, but in your shopping, pick up some Canopy Cement for future projects. If you do ever need to CA parts, say details, wire grabs etc, where you'll be using the CA in or around cab glazing, leave the shell to air or let a fan blow on it until the chemicals finish outgassing. I have fogged many a cab window just as you found.
Paul_in_GA bogp40 Paul now that you have the Future Floor "Finish" there are other uses, you can also use this product to spot "gloss" any areas that you will need to decal if surface isn't glossed already. I too prefer Canopy cement, however, I still have never had issues w/ gluing clear styrene w/ Testor's liquid. Cut and fit, handle piece w/ tweezers to place and add drops of cement to corners w/ a small paintbrush. The capillary action "wicks" the very liquid cement under the clear but I have never had it show past the frame. Thanks. No wonder it fogged. I was using a gel CA glue I bought at Hobby Lobby. I have the Testors liquid in the bottle. I cut off the brush and use the little brushes you can buy to glue things. Question, now that the windows are out and "floor waxed" I will most likely have to scrape some of the wax off for the Testors to adhere right? I gotta tell ya, windows are the worst. I even had my wife buy me some plastic binder stuff at Office Depot but she bought the cloudy stuff, not the crystal clear stuff. I'll have to go later and look to see what they have because I want to find an easier way. I do like that product that makes windows by Micro-Mark though. Might give that a try too. Thanks again. Paul
bogp40 Paul now that you have the Future Floor "Finish" there are other uses, you can also use this product to spot "gloss" any areas that you will need to decal if surface isn't glossed already. I too prefer Canopy cement, however, I still have never had issues w/ gluing clear styrene w/ Testor's liquid. Cut and fit, handle piece w/ tweezers to place and add drops of cement to corners w/ a small paintbrush. The capillary action "wicks" the very liquid cement under the clear but I have never had it show past the frame.
Paul now that you have the Future Floor "Finish" there are other uses, you can also use this product to spot "gloss" any areas that you will need to decal if surface isn't glossed already.
I too prefer Canopy cement, however, I still have never had issues w/ gluing clear styrene w/ Testor's liquid. Cut and fit, handle piece w/ tweezers to place and add drops of cement to corners w/ a small paintbrush. The capillary action "wicks" the very liquid cement under the clear but I have never had it show past the frame.
Thanks. No wonder it fogged. I was using a gel CA glue I bought at Hobby Lobby. I have the Testors liquid in the bottle. I cut off the brush and use the little brushes you can buy to glue things.
Question, now that the windows are out and "floor waxed" I will most likely have to scrape some of the wax off for the Testors to adhere right?
I gotta tell ya, windows are the worst. I even had my wife buy me some plastic binder stuff at Office Depot but she bought the cloudy stuff, not the crystal clear stuff. I'll have to go later and look to see what they have because I want to find an easier way.
I do like that product that makes windows by Micro-Mark though. Might give that a try too.
Thanks again.
Paul
Paul, Future Floor "Finish" is an acrylic finish not a wax, quite similar to Last and Last. The Testor's is aggressive enough to bond/ melt the plastic w/o trouble. Agreed, raw clean styrene will provide the best bond, but windows don't need much and they will not see any stress/ abuse, so a serious penetrating bond isn't needed like on other parts. The Testor's will work, but in your shopping, pick up some Canopy Cement for future projects.
If you do ever need to CA parts, say details, wire grabs etc, where you'll be using the CA in or around cab glazing, leave the shell to air or let a fan blow on it until the chemicals finish outgassing. I have fogged many a cab window just as you found.
Thanks again Bob. The Future Finish is on my list. I went to my LHS today and he had the canopy cament and I asked him about it. He's a master modeler and wins a lot of trophies and stuff and is even comissioned by real railroads to make displays, he does awesome work. Anyway, I asked him and he recommended G-S cement which I bought, It's great, it comes in a tube with a very fine metal needle. So I used it to start re-gluing in the windows.
I like some of the posts about using real glass but it'd be hard to get it the exact size.
Personally I think windows has to be my least favorite part of the hobby. Also, no matter what kit you buy there always seems to be a flaw or two in it. I hate that. When I build a kit under magnification it really stands out. I guess I'm my own worst critic but I strive for perfection. Impossible actually.
Modeling B&O- Chessie Bob K. www.ssmrc.org
I bought some scale glass sheets from Sierra Scale Models and have successfully used them in several models now, both paper & plastic.
One key trick to working with scale glass is that you DON'T 'snap' it - you'll be discovering little bits of glass all over your workshop for weeks. Instead, get yourself a carbide tip glass cutter. No pressure - just draw the cutter over your line, using only the weight of the tool. Do this a few times & you'll find that the glass has separated, as if by magic.
One other thing - the plastic box the glass sheets come in has a sponge in the top, both for packaging & to absorb moisture. However, I went back to it after about a month for another project & found that several sheets had seemingly glued themselves together. Remembering a tip I'd read somewhere in the last century, I put some warm tap water into an old margarine container along with a drop or two of dish soap & put the stuck sheets into it & left it for a few minutes. I then stood the piece up, on the long side & very gently drew a blade (again, only using the weight of the blade) along the length. I then flipped it over & did it to the opposite edge, & the sheets parted. A quick rinse & allowed to air-dry on paper towels, & I'm good to go.
And a safety tip - you can't use any quick-dry cement like crazy glue, on scale glass, as the glue will shatter the glass.
Most if not all of the products mentioned, not including white glue, are "Gloss medium". I use the ModPodge brand from craft stores. It is a little thicker & will do whatever the "specialized" products will do. I also use it to make windows in HO scale vehicle kits
cmrproducts Future Floor Polish - a clear acrylic paint - many on the models forums use this as a glue and also to clear up scratches in clear plastic we use as windows. I have used it as a glue and also to glue the clear plastic on the backs of windows - it isn't that strong but it sure will take the scratches out of the clear plastic! I won't use anything else where strength is not important. BOB H - Clarion, PA
Future Floor Polish - a clear acrylic paint - many on the models forums use this as a glue and also to clear up scratches in clear plastic we use as windows.
I have used it as a glue and also to glue the clear plastic on the backs of windows - it isn't that strong but it sure will take the scratches out of the clear plastic!
I won't use anything else where strength is not important.
BOB H - Clarion, PA
Well, you guys really helped me out. I'm gonna buy some canopy cement.
But first I tried some floor polish on the windows I popped out and I was amazed to see all the fogging and scratches gone. Now I have to reglue them in.
But, one of the windows wouldn't pop out so I decided to use a small paintbrush and brush on some floor polish and perfect. Now I wish I hadn't popped out all those windows. I could have just painted on the floor polish. Works great!
Thanks.
Eric97123 Try a little nail polish remover and qtip to get the fogging off. That has worked well for me. If you have painted the area, be careful not to get the nail polish remover on the painted area.
Try a little nail polish remover and qtip to get the fogging off. That has worked well for me. If you have painted the area, be careful not to get the nail polish remover on the painted area.
Danger Danger
Acetone (The primary ingrediant in nail polish remover) is a strong solvent. While it eats CA glue nicely, it also eats a number of plastics!
Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions
Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!
I've recently discovered a product called "GoToGlue" (found at home centers) that works extremely well on clear acrylic to styrene for windows and I've even used it to glue USP car sides to a painted/sanded rough car. Longer set time than ACC but no fogging and holds extremely well when dry.
Mine doesn't move.......it's at the station!!!
DigitalGriffin maxman DigitalGriffin It's also possible to glaze entire windows with this stuff instead of using the plastic pieces in the kit. One of these windows was glazed. Can you guess which 1 of the 4? The one on the bottom left with the fingerprint? The hired help at Sunrise Feed Mill don't do windows. And it's the top center one.
maxman DigitalGriffin It's also possible to glaze entire windows with this stuff instead of using the plastic pieces in the kit. One of these windows was glazed. Can you guess which 1 of the 4? The one on the bottom left with the fingerprint?
DigitalGriffin It's also possible to glaze entire windows with this stuff instead of using the plastic pieces in the kit. One of these windows was glazed. Can you guess which 1 of the 4?
The one on the bottom left with the fingerprint?
The hired help at Sunrise Feed Mill don't do windows.
And it's the top center one.
HA! What a coincidence! This is the structure I'm building right now!
Thanks everybody for your excellent suggestions, more for the archives. I appreciate it.
For most of my structure windows I use slide covers, which are real -- extremely thin -- glass. They do not fog up regardless of the cement used. But if you need to snap one to make it smaller the sharp edges (and resulting bits of glass) are a bit of a hazard.
Dave Nelson
After much frustration attempting to scratch build storefront window systems, I finally tried using Woodland Scenics Scenic Accents Glue. Brush a thin layer of this glue onto the inside perimeter of your window frames and let it dry completely. Next, position your glazing piece over the window and press into place. That's it! No glue squeezing out and no fogging. Best of all, if you misaligned your glazing the first time, you just pull it up and try again. No need to apply more glue and any glue that does come off on the glazing can be rolled off with your finger.
When building storefront systems, I start with a slightly oversized piece of glazing material. Then I cut and fit styrene strip pieces to make up the storefront frame. I paint the framing pieces before attaching them to the glazing. I next apply a thin coat of Scenic Accents Glue to the back side of each framing piece and let the glue dry completely. At this point, I can simply align each piece over the glazing and press it into place. If I get a piece on crooked, I simply lift it off, roll off any glue that stuck to the glazing and try placing the frame piece again. When each storefront window is complete, I apply a little more Scenic Accents Glue to the inside perimeter of each window opening, let the glue dry, then press the completed window assembly into place.
One other tip: By the time I measure, cut and install a piece of clear styrene, I usually find that it is covered with so many fingerprints and scratches that it looks terrible. Thus, I like to use the clear plastic cover sheets used to spiral or comb bind business reports. Since these sheets are designed to be handled by the report reader, they are far more scratch resistant than clear styrene. Fingerprints can easily be wiped off without scratching the clear plastic. One small box of these cover sheets from an office supply store could provide you with enough model glazing material for the rest of your life.
Hornblower
Microscale also has a product called Micro Krystal Klear which is both an adhesive for clear plastic and a window forming material.
It works well as an adhesive but as far as windows go I don't like the effect. The problem is that the film formed is not perfectly flat. The Micro Krystal Klear collects around the outside edge of the window frame. It is thicker around the outside edges than it is in the middle. That results in a pane that is slightly concave which shows when light is reflected off of the surface and distorts the view of anything inside the structure. It does not look like real glass.
There are a couple of alternative materials that work for window glazing:
The best is real glass. Ngineering sells .005" x .85" x 1.70" real plate glass. As someone said on a post several months ago, "you can't beat the realistic reflection of real glass...". You can use CA on real glass but the Microscale products are easier to work with because any visible excess can be removed before it fully dries. You have to scribe and snap the glass to cut it to fit. There is a certain learning curve to that, and not all cuts will go the way you want so there is some waste.
http://www.ngineering.com/other_detail_stuff.htm Scroll down a bit.
Here is a selection of relatively inexpensive scribing tools (I am referring to the individual tools, not the sets):
http://www.tedpella.com/tools_html/54410.htm
Evergreen sells .005" clear styrene. You must use a non fogging adhesive such as those mentioned above. Regular solvent styrene glues will fog the surface:
http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/269-9005
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
I use Tacky Glue or Weld Bond, which I am pretty sure are like the other glues mentioned. Both can be found in just about any craft or hardware store (including Walmart). They're inexpensive for a large amount.
What I like best about them is that they can be wiped off with a damp tissue or Q-tip if you smear any during gluing. And they stay flexible after drying unlike typical white glue which gets hard and loses its grip.
Jim
I use Canopy Cement for all my windows. Any that does squeeze out on to the window can be easily removed with a toothpick after it's set for an hour or two.
For some multi-pane windows, I apply Canopy Cement to the window without any additional clear plastic glazing. It will bridge over the openings and harden clear. When it hardens, it has a lot of curvature and acts like a distorting lens. With windows like this, you can light the interior of the building, but visitors on the outside can't see in, so you don't need an interior.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
CSX_road_slug What type of cement are you using? if it is solvent-based liquid, that will always cause problems. Even if the glue itself doesn't physically touch the visible part of the window, fumes from the "outgassing" that occurs as it dries could damage the clear styrene. It's been awhile since my last structure build, but I think I may have used Elmer's. You also might want to try double-sided tape...?
What type of cement are you using? if it is solvent-based liquid, that will always cause problems. Even if the glue itself doesn't physically touch the visible part of the window, fumes from the "outgassing" that occurs as it dries could damage the clear styrene.
It's been awhile since my last structure build, but I think I may have used Elmer's. You also might want to try double-sided tape...?
CA glue. You're exactly right, it is outgassing. I'm gonna try all the suggestions. I especially like the Micro-Mark stuff but wanna try the Testors too.
Thank you all for you help.
It's been awhile since my last structure build, but I think I may have used Elmer's.
-Ken in Maryland (B&O modeler, former CSX modeler)
Ask your LHS for canopy glue. As mentioned above Testors makes it "Clear Parts Cement & Window Maker" others have different names for it. I have used it, no fogging and even where I have goofed and gotten it on the visible part ot the window, it has disappeared when it dried.
Good luck,
Richard
jrbernier Go to a LHS that sells plastic model airplanes - Ask for 'Canopy Cement'..... Jim
Go to a LHS that sells plastic model airplanes - Ask for 'Canopy Cement'.....
Never heard of it, I'll look tomorrow at my LHS. Thanks again.
Modeling BNSF and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin
Thanks. I'm gonna try all three.