Trains.com

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Where do we fall on the modeling spectrum?

14746 views
74 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    December 2004
  • From: Bedford, MA, USA
  • 21,484 posts
Posted by MisterBeasley on Friday, December 7, 2012 7:34 AM

mononguy63

Interesting that the initial responses of rating yourself on the 1-to-10 scale quickly distilled into more of a "where am I in the 5-to-8 range" evaluation. If I'd paid more attention years ago in my psychology class, I might be able to make something of that...

Psychology?  How about statistics?  Purely based on a gaussian distribution about the mean, we should be centered at 5.5.  But, we're not.  And, I think there's a pretty easy answer.  Most of us here are "self-selected" as people who are far more serious about the hobby than the more casual model railroaders who pull out the trains and put them around the tree every year.  Those guys and gals (as opposed to us guys and gals) fill that gap in the 2-4 range.  Some may not even get why the Hot Wheels cars look out of place, having only a passing understanding of scale and era.  And, they (and perhaps their kids) have a great time even if they mix the Late Transition Era with the Jurassic.

Where are the 9's and 10's?  I think they're here.  But I think they are too modest to claim their rightful place.  We are a humble bunch.

It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse. 

Moderator
  • Member since
    June 2003
  • From: Northeast OH
  • 17,255 posts
Posted by tstage on Friday, December 7, 2012 7:46 AM

For me, I would label myself as a protolancer; modeling a small country town, freight house, and servicing terminal along the NYC in the early 40s.  While I do attempt to historically model and operate my layout as the prototype would during that era, I model no specific place on the NYC.  My enjoyment in modeling derives from the desire to create - as plausible as possible - a cross-section or window of time that no longer exists; locomotive, rolling stock, automobiles, structures, flora, lighting, etc. all blending together to take one back to an era where the railroad was a lifeline and an integral part of people's lives on a daily basis.

That doesn't mean I can't enjoy occasional anachronistic whimsey - e.g. a '51 VW Bug parked in the driveway. - or a stretch in "prototype adherence" because of lack of historical data - e.g. the use of a simple ball signal (mostly found and concentrated in the New England area); something that the NYC "may" have used but I can't find any info to support that.  Each layout should (and does) reflect its creator and his or her own personality.  That's what brings the creation alive.

So, if I were to rate myself on a scale of 1-10, I'd have to give myself an 8.5 or 9.  And the accuracy (or inaccuracy) that I desire to achieve is confined and limited to the sphere of my own layout and no one else's.

Tom

https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling

Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.

  • Member since
    January 2001
  • From: Nevada
  • 825 posts
Posted by NevinW on Friday, December 7, 2012 7:56 AM

I am about an 8 or 9.  I like things to be accurate and in scale.  I try to model actual places and try to make it as accurate as I can given the historical record.  It was easier when I was modeling 1950's B&O.  Modeling 1910 Nevada railroads means some modeling license is required since there are no maps or pictures for a lot of things.  

  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Mpls/St.Paul
  • 13,892 posts
Posted by wjstix on Friday, December 7, 2012 8:13 AM

I've always been interested in history, so I like things on my railroad to be pretty accurate. I know how to do detailed historical research, and have done so in the past. That being said, my job working with tax laws and regulations can be very VERY detail oriented, so I when I go home I don't want to put that same strain and effort into the layout. I'm aiming for getting the feel of the time and place more than exactly recreating reality. For me, running an NP RS-11 that was built in 1959 next to a GN 2-8-2 that was retired in 1955 isn't a big issue. Both engines were used in the area I model and in the same type of service (Minnesota iron ore railroading) at roughly the same time, so are fine with me being on the layout at the same time.

Stix
  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Northern CA Bay Area
  • 4,387 posts
Posted by cuyama on Friday, December 7, 2012 10:02 AM

Burlington Northern #24
the problem is that many of us are not tony koester trying to follow a railroad exactly to the last screw on the long hood of a Locomotive.

That's not what he wrote about. Only the Original Poster is trying to to somehow turn Tony Koester's column into some kind of value judgement about layouts, which it most certainly was not.

Koester's column was about using prototype information to make a freelance layout more plausible -- if that's what you want

All this discussion of applying value judgments and awarding style points 1-10 to model railroading is counter-productive in my view. But to be accurate, leave Koester out of it in any case.

As Dave H. notes, there are many dimensions along which one may measure themselves in the hobby. Many of which have not been mentioned here, such as reliability, authenticity of operating scheme, replication of real-life job roles, etc.

Byron

  • Member since
    October 2001
  • From: OH
  • 17,574 posts
Posted by BRAKIE on Friday, December 7, 2012 10:15 AM

Rastafarr
Even if Tyco guy isn't up to TK's admirable and difficult standards,

Stu,Actually Tony's standards isn't all that hard to achieve but,it does take time and above all dedication for doing the research involved with such modeling..

Even though such modeling fascinates me I never had the needed dedication for doing the required research and making field trips so,I always stuck with close enough/good enough modeling in the era I am modeling-with believability based on limited research of course..

Larry

Conductor.

Summerset Ry.


"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt  Safety First!"

  • Member since
    October 2001
  • From: OH
  • 17,574 posts
Posted by BRAKIE on Friday, December 7, 2012 10:31 AM

cuyama

Koester's column was about using prototype information to make a freelance layout more plausible -- if that's what you want

Bryon,That's been Tony's mantra for years so,nothing new there.I have learn a lot about freelancing a railroad through his lessons and  by doing limited research to learn the  how and why modern prototype short lines came into being.

------------------------------

As Dave H. notes, there are many dimensions along which one may measure themselves in the hobby. Many of which have not been mentioned here, such as reliability, authenticity of operating scheme, replication of real-life job roles, etc.

----------------------------

I agree..IMHO the best way to improved our modeling is by judging ourselves and not by other's modeling or modeling style since we need only to please ourselves..

Larry

Conductor.

Summerset Ry.


"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt  Safety First!"

  • Member since
    September 2002
  • 642 posts
Posted by RMax1 on Friday, December 7, 2012 11:38 AM

On a scale of 1 to 10 I rate myself as a B.

RMax

  • Member since
    June 2003
  • From: Culpeper, Va
  • 8,204 posts
Posted by IRONROOSTER on Friday, December 7, 2012 12:44 PM

RMax1

On a scale of 1 to 10 I rate myself as a B.

RMax

Is that a Hex B?

Laugh Laugh Laugh Laugh

Paul

If you're having fun, you're doing it the right way.
  • Member since
    March 2009
  • From: Western NYS
  • 549 posts
Posted by B&O1952 on Friday, December 7, 2012 1:06 PM

It's your layout, you can do as you wish. We still keep one piece of just about every HO manufacturer from the "vintage" days around. We will change out the truck sets, and add Kadee couplers and draft gear to all. We have an old Globe 40' NKP boxcar that I recently weathered, there's a Tyco Western Maryland flat car with the three tractors still making the rounds, some other classic manufacturers include Lionel, Marx, Varney, Cox, Model Power, and a few more if I think hard enough. Of course, they are a small part of our 600 car fleet, and blend in quite well with our more accurate cars.

-Stan

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • 10,582 posts
Posted by mlehman on Friday, December 7, 2012 1:15 PM

B&O1952

It's your layout, you can do as you wish...

SNIP

We have an old Globe 40' NKP boxcar that I recently weathered, there's a Tyco Western Maryland flat car with the three tractors still making the rounds, some other classic manufacturers include Lionel, Marx, Varney, Cox, Model Power, and a few more if I think hard enough. Of course, they are a small part of our 600 car fleet, and blend in quite well with our more accurate cars.

-Stan

Stan,

Yeah, that's what the last guy said, right before the "prototype police" slapped the cuffs on him...Smile, Wink & GrinLaugh

Mike Lehman

Urbana, IL

  • Member since
    June 2012
  • 2,297 posts
Posted by Burlington Northern #24 on Friday, December 7, 2012 1:27 PM

cuyama

Burlington Northern #24
the problem is that many of us are not tony koester trying to follow a railroad exactly to the last screw on the long hood of a Locomotive.

That's not what he wrote about. Only the Original Poster is trying to to somehow turn Tony Koester's column into some kind of value judgement about layouts, which it most certainly was not.

Koester's column was about using prototype information to make a freelance layout more plausible -- if that's what you want

All this discussion of applying value judgments and awarding style points 1-10 to model railroading is counter-productive in my view. But to be accurate, leave Koester out of it in any case.

As Dave H. notes, there are many dimensions along which one may measure themselves in the hobby. Many of which have not been mentioned here, such as reliability, authenticity of operating scheme, replication of real-life job roles, etc.

Byron

so a misinterpretation of ones post, rereading the article and reading this post. Man I'm all over the place.

SP&S modeler, 1960's give or take a decade or two for some equipment.

 http://www.youtube.com/user/SGTDUPREY?feature=guide 

Gary DuPrey

N scale model railroader 

  • Member since
    December 2008
  • From: Heart of Georgia
  • 5,406 posts
Posted by Doughless on Friday, December 7, 2012 2:33 PM

Over the years, I've never gotten the impression that TK advocated being a 10 in accuracy.  In fact, he probably shares some of the "good enough" philosophy that his friend Allen McClelland of the V&O expressed.   I have not read the current column yet.

I don't like to own anything that does not look realistic to me.  The tyco products and grass mat scenery stuff  doesn't cut it.  I'm not a stickler for accuracy, but I don't want to have a Genset pull a string of 55-ton coal hoppers and would prefer to use an RS1.

I guess that means somewhere between a 5 and an 8.

 

- Douglas

  • Member since
    October 2001
  • From: OH
  • 17,574 posts
Posted by BRAKIE on Friday, December 7, 2012 5:13 PM

TA462

BRAKIE

Rastafarr
Even if Tyco guy isn't up to TK's admirable and difficult standards,

Stu,Actually Tony's standards isn't all that hard to achieve but,it does take time and above all dedication for doing the research involved with such modeling..

Thats were the good enough for me attitude comes into play.   I find it funny that some people simple don't want to try to be better.   Sure it takes some time to research a project, it takes time to practice and improve your modeling skills and it takes time to become a over all great model builder.   I could never understand why people don't want to be as good as what you see in the magazines.  

 

I did do extensive research on the Kinniconic & Freestone Ry(C&O's Carter City branch) down in Lewis County Ky with high hopes of modeling it some day..I can take you to where the track went,the stations,water tanks to include a spring fed tank,the deep cut and know several stories.

I can switch cars with the best and will be right at home talking to Tony Koester,Allen McCellend,Bill Darnaby and the other top guns on prototypical operation and LDEs..I've study the rationalization of the railroad plant.

I guess I never found a need to turn the hobby into a competition or feel the need to model beyond my needs and I'm very happy with my basic  modeling style since it served me quite well over the past 55 years.

Besides this is a hobby that is only limited by the modeler choices.

.

 

Larry

Conductor.

Summerset Ry.


"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt  Safety First!"

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • From: Omaha, NE
  • 10,621 posts
Posted by dehusman on Friday, December 7, 2012 5:21 PM

IRONROOSTER

Is that a Hex B?

Laugh Laugh Laugh Laugh

There are 10 types of people who understand binary, those that do and those that don't.

Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • From: Omaha, NE
  • 10,621 posts
Posted by dehusman on Friday, December 7, 2012 5:33 PM

TA462

I guess I never found a need to turn the hobby into a competition 

I see it as a competition.  With myself.  When I see a great model, I ask myself if I can do that, how can I do that.  I may try something 2 or 3 (or more) to try to improve my skills.

Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com

  • Member since
    June 2012
  • 2,297 posts
Posted by Burlington Northern #24 on Friday, December 7, 2012 5:54 PM

dehusman

TA462

I guess I never found a need to turn the hobby into a competition 

I see it as a competition.  With myself.  When I see a great model, I ask myself if I can do that, how can I do that.  I may try something 2 or 3 (or more) to try to improve my skills.

I agree lately I've been thinking, "what can I do to improve the look of my locos" so far I've detailed the railings on the decks of all my diesel locos. next layout what can I build or how can the track plan be set to achieve full functionality and not inhibit my loco and rolling stock choices. layout details, etc. 

SP&S modeler, 1960's give or take a decade or two for some equipment.

 http://www.youtube.com/user/SGTDUPREY?feature=guide 

Gary DuPrey

N scale model railroader 

  • Member since
    October 2001
  • From: OH
  • 17,574 posts
Posted by BRAKIE on Friday, December 7, 2012 6:34 PM

dehusman

TA462

I guess I never found a need to turn the hobby into a competition 

I see it as a competition.  With myself.  When I see a great model, I ask myself if I can do that, how can I do that.  I may try something 2 or 3 (or more) to try to improve my skills.

 
That's probably the best type of competition since it improves the skills.
 
However,one should never try to emulate another's modeling style or one could become dishearten and quit the hobby on the grounds he can't measure up to modeler Jim's modeling nor should he model to please others.
 
Think of this.
 
If I can't please myself then who can? Now,if I please myself and I am happy then why worry about pleasing others?
 
 

Larry

Conductor.

Summerset Ry.


"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt  Safety First!"

  • Member since
    December 2004
  • From: Bedford, MA, USA
  • 21,484 posts
Posted by MisterBeasley on Friday, December 7, 2012 7:52 PM

dehusman
I see it as a competition.  With myself.  When I see a great model, I ask myself if I can do that, how can I do that. 

I see it as a competition with Weekend Photo Fun.  WPF, more than anything, has improved my modeling by showing me what can be done and therefore challenging me to achieve that level.

On the other hand, I may already be a 10 because my mermaid is a perfect 1:87 scale.

It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse. 

  • Member since
    June 2003
  • From: Culpeper, Va
  • 8,204 posts
Posted by IRONROOSTER on Friday, December 7, 2012 8:37 PM

dehusman

IRONROOSTER

Is that a Hex B?

Laugh Laugh Laugh Laugh

There are 10 types of people who understand binary, those that do and those that don't.

Exactly!!!

If you're having fun, you're doing it the right way.
  • Member since
    October 2007
  • From: Jersey Shore
  • 313 posts
Posted by wojosa31 on Friday, December 7, 2012 9:13 PM

BRAKIE

I find it funny that some people simple don't want to try to be better.   Sure it takes some time to research a project, it takes time to practice and improve your modeling skills and it takes time to become a over all great model builder.   I could never understand why people don't want to be as good as what you see in the magazines.  

 

 I returned to model railroading, back in 1984 or so, when I bought a house with a basement. My first attempt was a 5x9 kid friendly layout closely resembling "Tyco Guy's" layout, as pictured in the other forum.

It wasn't long until I was replacing the Bachmann and Tyco track with Atlas, and the Bachmann Fs with Athearn Fs and Atlas Rs3s. I was looking for something that looked like what I observed every day at work.

As time passed on, Code 100 track was replaced by Code 83, and more recently Code 70, to make it look right. Equipment has evolved to the point where Kadee, Tangent and Intermountain  freight cars now outnumber my Athearn BB cars. The Cabin cars are prototype specific cars from Walthers and Bowser, and the lettering and numbering are beginning to conform to the 1966 renumbering prior to merger with the NYC.

Operation is Yard Rules and Industrial Track, Restricted Speed. No signals no track warrants, mostly using first generation power, EMD NW2, ALCo RS1 and S3 with an occasional RS3, RS11 or RS27 for variety.

Funny part is I'm not competitive. Most likely no one on this forum will ever see my layout or operate it. Yet, I want it to appear like I remember the territory when I last operated over it in 1977 (Which is 10 years after the era I'm modeling).

The biggest danger, is that one day I will attain what I'm looking for, but at that point it will be like going to workBig Smile.

  • Member since
    June 2012
  • 2,297 posts
Posted by Burlington Northern #24 on Saturday, December 8, 2012 3:38 AM

I could care less If I could't match someones level, I have a long life ahead with lots to learn but one of the most basic things one can do with their diesels is paint white the railing(according to prototype) did that to my locos. happiest camper ever, they look so nice now it feels right.

SP&S modeler, 1960's give or take a decade or two for some equipment.

 http://www.youtube.com/user/SGTDUPREY?feature=guide 

Gary DuPrey

N scale model railroader 

  • Member since
    October 2001
  • From: OH
  • 17,574 posts
Posted by BRAKIE on Saturday, December 8, 2012 5:10 AM

Burlington Northern #24
I have a long life ahead with lots to learn but one of the most basic things one can do with their diesels is paint white the railing(according to prototype) did that to my locos. happiest camper ever, they look so nice now it feels right.

That's the type of modeling I do..Add or change some details(change out horns if needed,add visors,stuff like that),paint the handrails and like you I'm a happy camper.

Larry

Conductor.

Summerset Ry.


"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt  Safety First!"

  • Member since
    October 2001
  • From: OH
  • 17,574 posts
Posted by BRAKIE on Saturday, December 8, 2012 5:14 AM

wojosa31

BRAKIE

I find it funny that some people simple don't want to try to be better.   Sure it takes some time to research a project, it takes time to practice and improve your modeling skills and it takes time to become a over all great model builder.   I could never understand why people don't want to be as good as what you see in the magazines.  

 

I didn't write that.. TA462  did..

 

Larry

Conductor.

Summerset Ry.


"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt  Safety First!"

  • Member since
    December 2011
  • From: Northern Minnesota
  • 2,774 posts
Posted by NP2626 on Saturday, December 8, 2012 6:05 AM

While I try to reproduce my models to as close to the real thing as possible and enjoy immensely the process of doing so and I try to make my railroad and scenery look as though it could easily exist in the real world (plausible) there is no other impetus for my doing this than my own enjoyment of doing it.

I get better over time and my expectations of myself, increase due to having painstakingly built a better set of skills.  Although I will likely take a few of my best efforts along with me to a Northern Pacific Railroad Historical Association's annual meeting someday to display, they were not built with that end in mind.

I feel it is ridiculous to  stand in judgment of others efforts.  Freelanced/Prototype, who cares, it is just a hobby; so, enjoy the hobby for what it is, an enjoyable past time.

NP 2626 "Northern Pacific, really terrific"

Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association:  http://www.nprha.org/

  • Member since
    October 2001
  • From: OH
  • 17,574 posts
Posted by BRAKIE on Saturday, December 8, 2012 7:06 AM

NP2626

I feel it is ridiculous to  stand in judgment of others efforts.  Freelanced/Prototype, who cares, it is just a hobby; so, enjoy the hobby for what it is, an enjoyable past time.

I agree but,I don't think anybody is judging anybody here..I believe we are having a very civil conversation on modeling styles and there's certainly nothing wrong with that on a general discussion forum..

Regardless if a modeler tries to match the way other fella models or models with 110% accuracy or models close enough/good enough one should enjoy what he is doing..

Tags: I

Larry

Conductor.

Summerset Ry.


"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt  Safety First!"

  • Member since
    December 2011
  • From: Northern Minnesota
  • 2,774 posts
Posted by NP2626 on Saturday, December 8, 2012 7:32 AM

Really!  Nobody's judging anyone?!? 

NP 2626 "Northern Pacific, really terrific"

Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association:  http://www.nprha.org/

Moderator
  • Member since
    November 2008
  • From: London ON
  • 10,392 posts
Posted by blownout cylinder on Saturday, December 8, 2012 8:20 AM

Now...let's not get into one of these things again.Huh?

Myself, I tend toward a six or seven...

Any argument carried far enough will end up in Semantics--Hartz's law of rhetoric Emerald. Leemer and Southern The route of the Sceptre Express Barry

I just started my blog site...more stuff to come...

http://modeltrainswithmusic.blogspot.ca/

  • Member since
    June 2007
  • From: Mankato MN
  • 1,358 posts
Posted by secondhandmodeler on Saturday, December 8, 2012 8:26 AM

Somewhere between one and ten you change from having a train set to having a model railroad.  Where that change occurs could result in a ten page discussion on this forum!Big Smile

In my own modeling efforts I hope to have someone who knows the area I model see the resemblance between the model and real thing.  That being said, a person who knows how the railroad actually operated would see no resemblance at all!  My modeling efforts have been focused on recreating the scene, not the railroad.  My layout is probably like a cake that looks really good but tastes just okay!Big Smile

Corey
  • Member since
    June 2012
  • 2,297 posts
Posted by Burlington Northern #24 on Saturday, December 8, 2012 9:50 AM

BRAKIE

Burlington Northern #24
I have a long life ahead with lots to learn but one of the most basic things one can do with their diesels is paint white the railing(according to prototype) did that to my locos. happiest camper ever, they look so nice now it feels right.

That's the type of modeling I do..Add or change some details(change out horns if needed,add visors,stuff like that),paint the handrails and like you I'm a happy camper.

want to roast some s'mores? Laugh  

SP&S modeler, 1960's give or take a decade or two for some equipment.

 http://www.youtube.com/user/SGTDUPREY?feature=guide 

Gary DuPrey

N scale model railroader 

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Users Online

There are no community member online

Search the Community

ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
Model Railroader Newsletter See all
Sign up for our FREE e-newsletter and get model railroad news in your inbox!