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Very strangely wired as well as my grammar?
First, you make a lot of assumptions you that you have no idea about. I have the simplest system. Two wires soldered to the tracks. All the other locos run fine. I am an electrician by trade, an aircraft avionics electrician so I think I know what I'm doing.
Second, my grammar? Who made you a grammar troll?
Have a nice night and thanks for your help and God bless you.
ChadLRyan Paul, If you saw wires, we may be talking different units & my efforts my have been misleading, & I do apologize.However, should any major parts resemble these, I do hope it is of some benefit to you.Please click on the Photo, or bottom of the Photo to enlarge it to 'FULL Size'.Paul, I was hoping your unit would be more like this one, but it sounds like it is very different, I hope I have not led you down a wrong path. PS, I have limited space, & may remove this, so for everyone, (as usual) please save this picture if you feel you would like to reference it in the future! I will honor a request for it if it is missing, as I only delete the internet link, not the master picture. Thanks
Paul,
If you saw wires, we may be talking different units & my efforts my have been misleading, & I do apologize.However, should any major parts resemble these, I do hope it is of some benefit to you.Please click on the Photo, or bottom of the Photo to enlarge it to 'FULL Size'.Paul, I was hoping your unit would be more like this one, but it sounds like it is very different, I hope I have not led you down a wrong path.
PS, I have limited space, & may remove this, so for everyone, (as usual) please save this picture if you feel you would like to reference it in the future! I will honor a request for it if it is missing, as I only delete the internet link, not the master picture. Thanks
Chad, thanks a lot for the photo. Mine looks exactly like this however I haven't disassembled it all the way as shown in your photo.
While waiting for your responses (which I really appreciate) I have learned how to program the CV's. But no luck. It simply will not even start moving till I set the speed to 8 or 9. I think the worm gear system as opposed to the flywheel system is where the problem lies.
A guy named cuyama posted this then either he or someone else deleted it. "And you shouldn't. His layout is very strangely wired (as is his grammar) and does not apply to typical DC or DCC."
So I posted back to his deleted post. I feel sorry for people who have to belittle others, after all they had to start out as newbies but you can't change people can you.
Thanks for your help Chad, I appreciate it a lot.
Paul
Paul_in_GA Very strangely wired as well as my grammar? First, you make a lot of assumptions you that you have no idea about. I have the simplest system. Two wires soldered to the tracks. All the other locos run fine. I am an electrician by trade, an aircraft avionics electrician so I think I know what I'm doing. Second, my grammar? Who made you a grammar troll? Have a nice night and thanks for your help and God bless you.
When I mentioned grammar, I was talking about the guy (Lion) who pretends he's a stuffed toy.
I was saying to you don't wire your motor directly to the wheels as he advised. He has a weird set-up that doesn't apply to anyone else's layout I've ever seen. (or ever will.)
I was making no comment about, you, your wiring, or yo Mama. Sorry for the confusion.
I understand the reason you might be confused, but believe me, I wasn't directing anything towards you. Best of luck with your layout.
cuyama Paul_in_GA Very strangely wired as well as my grammar? First, you make a lot of assumptions you that you have no idea about. I have the simplest system. Two wires soldered to the tracks. All the other locos run fine. I am an electrician by trade, an aircraft avionics electrician so I think I know what I'm doing. Second, my grammar? Who made you a grammar troll? Have a nice night and thanks for your help and God bless you. When I mentioned grammar, I was talking about the guy (Lion) who pretends he's a stuffed toy and. I was saying to you don't wire your motor directly to the wheels as he advised. He has a weird set-up that doesn't apply to anyone else's layout I've ever seen. (or ever will.) I was making no comment about, you, your wiring, or yo Mama. Sorry for the confusion. I understand the reason you might be confused, but believe me, I wasn't directing anything towards you. Best of luck with your layout.
When I mentioned grammar, I was talking about the guy (Lion) who pretends he's a stuffed toy and.
Thank you cuyama, I stand corrected and appreciate the clarification. In the future I will be sure to be very wary of what Mr. Lion has to say.
Have a nice evening and I appreciate your help also.
Paul_in_GA "And you shouldn't. His layout is very strangely wired (as is his grammar) and does not apply to typical DC or DCC." So I posted back to his deleted post. I feel sorry for people who have to belittle others, after all they had to start out as newbies but you can't change people can you.
"And you shouldn't. His layout is very strangely wired (as is his grammar) and does not apply to typical DC or DCC."
I have helped dozens and dozens of newbies -- including, briefly, you. Check my posts. My gripe is with people who make impractical suggestions that don't apply to the newbie, confusing them. So it wasn't directed toward you. When I rethought it and tried to delete it, you were too quick on the draw.
Again, best of luck with your layout -- but don't wire your wheels directly to the motor as you were advised.
cuyama Paul_in_GA "And you shouldn't. His layout is very strangely wired (as is his grammar) and does not apply to typical DC or DCC." So I posted back to his deleted post. I feel sorry for people who have to belittle others, after all they had to start out as newbies but you can't change people can you. I have helped dozens and dozens of newbies -- including, briefly, you. Check my posts. My gripe is with people who make impractical suggestions that don't apply to the newbie, confusing them. So it wasn't directed toward you. When I rethought it and tried to delete it, you were too quick on the draw. Again, best of luck with your layout -- but don't wire your wheels directly to the motor as you were advised.
Yes, I do recall you helping. I have found that 99% of the people here to be very helpful and gracious. Ken and Brad come to mind.
You can be sure I would never wire my wheels as Mr. stuffed lion suggested.
Now, I wonder why a grown man would want to consider himself a stuffed lion? Very curious indeed.
I have one of the newer single motor DCC-equipped 44-tonners. The orange capacitors -- IF they are present -- will be buried under the motor. I looked for them there like on my 70-tonners, but couldn't see any without disassembling it. It's possible they may be on the board (not on the decoder) instead of directly attached to the motor. In which case, you might be better off leaving things alone in the absence of better guidance of what to snip off.
I will say this. Bachmann decoders are worth what you pay for them -- free, included with the loco. I eventually gave up on the ones in the 70-tonners and installed NCE decoders -- things worked MUCH better. The drive in these locos is actually pretty good.
So far, I've played with various CVs and have got the different decoder that's in the 44-tonner to work fairly well. I suggest keep trying different settings for voltage, etc, rather than trying to sort out anything else that's not obvious at this point. It's is most likely the decoder, as you've verified the motor likes to go round and round just fine when it gets the juice.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
mlehman I have one of the newer single motor DCC-equipped 44-tonners. The orange capacitors -- IF they are present -- will be buried under the motor. I looked for them there like on my 70-tonners, but couldn't see any without disassembling it. It's possible they may be on the board (not on the decoder) instead of directly attached to the motor. In which case, you might be better off leaving things alone in the absence of better guidance of what to snip off. I will say this. Bachmann decoders are worth what you pay for them -- free, included with the loco. I eventually gave up on the ones in the 70-tonners and installed NCE decoders -- things worked MUCH better. The drive in these locos is actually pretty good. So far, I've played with various CVs and have got the different decoder that's in the 44-tonner to work fairly well. I suggest keep trying different settings for voltage, etc, rather than trying to sort out anything else that's not obvious at this point. It's is most likely the decoder, as you've verified the motor likes to go round and round just fine when it gets the juice.
From what I have discovered tonight I completely agree. I will soon be installing an NCE in mine too.
Thanks for the advice.
Hi Paul,Hey, You are very Welcome, when it comes to similar models, & similar interests, I make an attempt to respond.On my model my driving trucks popped themselves out when I was going for the body mounting screws behind the coupler pockets.Until then I mistakenly thought they were capped units like most SD & GP models, they are not, (& I did mis inform!) so these can Gently be pryed out from the bottom of the assembled chassis..Then one can try to remove the bottom covers (like in the pic), & the wheel sets should pull out & then can be cleaned. I, typically use a toothpic for this, the wood will grab the grease, & let me scoop it out.To address another question I missed, there willbe enough lube there to test with, once the cleaning & issue has been remedied, then a little 'plastic compatible' or 'very light' plastic compatible grease will do, here, less is more.
On mine, I will 'de-clump' it & maybe rub only a smidgeon back into the gear mesch, & call it ready-to-go!I have not smoked a crankcase yet with that approach, but, I also do not run 24/7, but they do run often.
Again, I hope I was able to offer some helpfull info, & hope it can help you identify the issue with your little guy.Actually when I saw the open gears on the truck bottoms, that is a real sign that a peice of ballast, some pet hair, or some oter foreign object got embedded in the gear train. I would spin & tooth check that carefully, as that would really be my primary suspect..
Hope that helps.. Best of luck!
ChadLRyan Hi Paul,Hey, You are very Welcome, when it comes to similar models, & similar interests, I make an attempt to respond.On my model my driving trucks popped themselves out when I was going for the body mounting screws behind the coupler pockets.Until then I mistakenly thought they were capped units like most SD & GP models, they are not, (& I did mis inform!) so these can Gently be pryed out from the bottom of the assembled chassis..Then one can try to remove the bottom covers (like in the pic), & the wheel sets should pull out & then can be cleaned. I, typically use a toothpic for this, the wood will grab the grease, & let me scoop it out.To address another question I missed, there willbe enough lube there to test with, once the cleaning & issue has been remedied, then a little 'plastic compatible' or 'very light' plastic compatible grease will do, here, less is more. On mine, I will 'de-clump' it & maybe rub only a smidgeon back into the gear mesch, & call it ready-to-go!I have not smoked a crankcase yet with that approach, but, I also do not run 24/7, but they do run often. Again, I hope I was able to offer some helpfull info, & hope it can help you identify the issue with your little guy.Actually when I saw the open gears on the truck bottoms, that is a real sign that a peice of ballast, some pet hair, or some oter foreign object got embedded in the gear train. I would spin & tooth check that carefully, as that would really be my primary suspect.. Hope that helps.. Best of luck!
Thanks again Chad, I will take your advice. When I removed the worm drive and drive shaft and saw how fast the motor spun I was surprised. But then the wheels also moves freely without the worm drive installed too. This is a new loco and has had only a couple of runs and it's always been like this. I think I'm gonna put a better decoder in it.
I can see how easily debris could accumulate in it though with it being open on the bottom and all.
Going to bed, very tired. Thanks for your help.
Anytime! Please PM me if you ever find the root cause of the issue.I'm going to go do a little de greasing on mine & then re-assemble it.Kinda glad we opened her up! Ha hah.
Yeah, I'd like to hear more, too. Bachmann's CVs are baffling. If anyone finds anything better than the weak factory documentation, that would be helpful.
Oh, another tip. A dab of contact cleaner - I use CRC 2-26 - on the wheel-contact interface at the bearing/sideframe helps some, too.
Now that I'm thinking about it, they blacken that metal truck sideframe. I suppose it's conductive? It still may be worth disassembly to clean that area up, then apply CRC 2-26?
Paul_in_GA mlehman I have one of the newer single motor DCC-equipped 44-tonners. The orange capacitors -- IF they are present -- will be buried under the motor. I looked for them there like on my 70-tonners, but couldn't see any without disassembling it. It's possible they may be on the board (not on the decoder) instead of directly attached to the motor. In which case, you might be better off leaving things alone in the absence of better guidance of what to snip off. I will say this. Bachmann decoders are worth what you pay for them -- free, included with the loco. I eventually gave up on the ones in the 70-tonners and installed NCE decoders -- things worked MUCH better. The drive in these locos is actually pretty good. So far, I've played with various CVs and have got the different decoder that's in the 44-tonner to work fairly well. I suggest keep trying different settings for voltage, etc, rather than trying to sort out anything else that's not obvious at this point. It's is most likely the decoder, as you've verified the motor likes to go round and round just fine when it gets the juice. From what I have discovered tonight I completely agree. I will soon be installing an NCE in mine too. Thanks for the advice.
It sounds like you have electrical experience, so soldering isn't a big deal to you. I have several 44 tonners, even after installing a better decoder the operation was erratic. So what I did was trash the board and hard wire the decoder directly. The capacitors that Rich spoke of earlier are still on that board, but they aren't as obvious as they used to be. Operations smoothed out and it runs perfectly.
My experience is on the website below,
http://gearedsteam.blogspot.com/2012/02/tsunami-sound-decoder-install-mdc.html
I was installing sound and using a different shell but the chassis is a Bachmann 44 ton.
Good Luck
"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination."-Albert Einstein
http://gearedsteam.blogspot.com/
Geared Steam Paul_in_GA mlehman I have one of the newer single motor DCC-equipped 44-tonners. The orange capacitors -- IF they are present -- will be buried under the motor. I looked for them there like on my 70-tonners, but couldn't see any without disassembling it. It's possible they may be on the board (not on the decoder) instead of directly attached to the motor. In which case, you might be better off leaving things alone in the absence of better guidance of what to snip off. I will say this. Bachmann decoders are worth what you pay for them -- free, included with the loco. I eventually gave up on the ones in the 70-tonners and installed NCE decoders -- things worked MUCH better. The drive in these locos is actually pretty good. So far, I've played with various CVs and have got the different decoder that's in the 44-tonner to work fairly well. I suggest keep trying different settings for voltage, etc, rather than trying to sort out anything else that's not obvious at this point. It's is most likely the decoder, as you've verified the motor likes to go round and round just fine when it gets the juice. From what I have discovered tonight I completely agree. I will soon be installing an NCE in mine too. Thanks for the advice. Paul It sounds like you have electrical experience, so soldering isn't a big deal to you. I have several 44 tonners, even after installing a better decoder the operation was erratic. So what I did was trash the board and hard wire the decoder directly. The capacitors that Rich spoke of earlier are still on that board, but they aren't as obvious as they used to be. Operations smoothed out and it runs perfectly. My experience is on the website below, http://gearedsteam.blogspot.com/2012/02/tsunami-sound-decoder-install-mdc.html I was installing sound and using a different shell but the chassis is a Bachmann 44 ton. Good Luck
Well, soldering is nothing for me but I need wiring diagrams which the locomotives lack. The decoders have diagrams. I have never wired a loco directly and wouldn't even know where to begin. Maybe your site you gave me might help. I haven't visited it yet.
This "hobby" can be very trying at times.
Geared Steam,
So I was right in suspecting the caps are on the board in the new 44-tonners. Even a stopped clock is right twice a day...
Your blog write-up says they're yellow. Can you give any other guidance to locating them? I'd just as soon give clipping them off a try before giving up totally on the Bachmann decoder and having to install another decoder.
Geared Steam SNIP The capacitors that Rich spoke of earlier are still on that board, but they aren't as obvious as they used to be. Operations smoothed out and it runs perfectly. My experience is on the website below, http://gearedsteam.blogspot.com/2012/02/tsunami-sound-decoder-install-mdc.html I was installing sound and using a different shell but the chassis is a Bachmann 44 ton. Good Luck
SNIP
The capacitors that Rich spoke of earlier are still on that board, but they aren't as obvious as they used to be. Operations smoothed out and it runs perfectly.
mlehman Geared Steam, So I was right in suspecting the caps are on the board in the new 44-tonners. Even a stopped clock is right twice a day... Your blog write-up says they're yellow. Can you give any other guidance to locating them? I'd just as soon give clipping them off a try before giving up totally on the Bachmann decoder and having to install another decoder. Geared Steam SNIP The capacitors that Rich spoke of earlier are still on that board, but they aren't as obvious as they used to be. Operations smoothed out and it runs perfectly. My experience is on the website below, http://gearedsteam.blogspot.com/2012/02/tsunami-sound-decoder-install-mdc.html I was installing sound and using a different shell but the chassis is a Bachmann 44 ton. Good Luck
Yeah, count me in! Are the yellow caps ON the decoder? I used a razor knife and made a small slice in the heat shrink on the decoder and I saw a yellowish/orangish square that MIGHT be a cap but I wasn't sure. This is the original decoder that came factory installed by Bachman.
I'm pretty sure they're on the separate "light" board from the decoder. This Bachmann is a weird hybrid of big old-style board and teensy decoder.
mlehman Paul, I'm pretty sure they're on the separate "light" board from the decoder. This Bachmann is a weird hybrid of big old-style board and teensy decoder.
Hmm. I looked and looked last night and all I saw were two green resistors. I posted a photo of it. Could it be on the bottom of the board underneath the resistors somewhere? It's all back together again and it runs so poorly I was gonna toss it in the trash. Well, maybe throw it against a brick wall at a VERY high velocity.
I mean it won't even BUDGE until I get to 8 on the CAB. I ruled out anything mechanical because last night when I removed the worm gears the motor spun very fast, I rotated the wheels and they were all smooth with no binding or crud in the gears, it had fresh grease in the gears as well, AND this is a new loco. So my conclusion is it has to be electronic.
While removing the filter capacitors on the Bachmann locos can improve the performance, it is no substute for a higher quality decoder.
About 2 years ago Bachmann started putting the RF chokes (2 capacitors and 2 resistors and 2 coils in some cases) in all their worldwide production They are required in many countries, but not in north America. As they are Radio Frequency chokes and the DCC signal is an Rf signal (broadcast through the tracks) the choke can and does interfer with the NMRA DCC signal and can corrupt the digital packets going to the decoders. The solution is simple, remove the filters (the capacitors) but can be a PIA now that Bachman is including them on their decoder boards. The caps can be yellow, yellow/orange and I've even seen yellow/green. Once the caps have been removed, you don't have to bother with the associated resistors or if present, coils as they will then be inert.
On the four and six axle units, they're an even bigger pain, as they are attached to the motor power lugs and require loosening/removal of the chassis weight to get to (you may have to temporaily disconect the truck wires). Once there though, just clip all the bare wires (don't cut the black or red wires), remove the resistors and caps and then reassemble the weight to the frame. Some of the newer releases now may also have them on the decoder boards.
To the OP, the only difference between a flywheel drive and the wormgear drive is the lack of flywheels, both have wormgears. In a drive as small as the 44 tonner, the effect of flywheels on the performance would be negligable. As to the wormgears themselves, the "plastic" ones are made of a tough engineering plastic like Delrin, Celcon or Nylon and are self-lubricating. They are in part also used because they are quieter. I have been custom building and servicing locomotives for 30 years and have yet to come across a bad worm gear in a plastic locomotive. So while they may look "cheesy", they are in fact, not. I have seen issues with mixing brass and plastic gears in brass locomotives, but that's a different story.
The only issue there has been aver the past 20 years with plastic gears in locos, was an issue that LifeLike/Proto2000 had with cracked axel gears before 1999 (or so) and this was due to a production error.
Jay
C-415 Build: https://imageshack.com/a/tShC/1
Other builds: https://imageshack.com/my/albums
modelmaker51 While removing the filter capacitors on the Bachmann locos can improve the performance, it is no substute for a higher quality decoder. About 2 years ago Bachmann started putting the RF chokes (2 capacitors and 2 resistors and 2 coils in some cases) in all their worldwide production They are required in many countries, but not in north America. As they are Radio Frequency chokes and the DCC signal is an Rf signal (broadcast through the tracks) the choke can and does interfer with the NMRA DCC signal and can corrupt the digital packets going to the decoders. The solution is simple, remove the filters (the capacitors) but can be a PIA now that Bachman is including them on their decoder boards. The caps can be yellow, yellow/orange and I've even seen yellow/green. Once the caps have been removed, you don't have to bother with the associated resistors or if present, coils as they will then be inert. On the four and six axle units, they're an even bigger pain, as they are attached to the motor power lugs and require loosening/removal of the chassis weight to get to (you may have to temporaily disconect the truck wires). Once there though, just clip all the bare wires (don't cut the black or red wires), remove the resistors and caps and then reassemble the weight to the frame. Some of the newer releases now may also have them on the decoder boards. To the OP, the only difference between a flywheel drive and the wormgear drive is the lack of flywheels, both have wormgears. In a drive as small as the 44 tonner, the effect of flywheels on the performance would be negligable. As to the wormgears themselves, the "plastic" ones are made of a tough engineering plastic like Delrin, Celcon or Nylon and are self-lubricating. They are in part also used because they are quieter. I have been custom building and servicing locomotives for 30 years and have yet to come across a bad worm gear in a plastic locomotive. So while they may look "cheesy", they are in fact, not. I have seen issues with mixing brass and plastic gears in brass locomotives, but that's a different story. The only issue there has been aver the past 20 years with plastic gears in locos, was an issue that LifeLike/Proto2000 had with cracked axel gears before 1999 (or so) and this was due to a production error.
Jay, thanks a lot for all that info. I just said "cheesy" because I thought at the time they were but now that I can see that they are Delrin that makes a difference. I have used Delrin bushings in Corvette headlights for years and you can't beat the self-lubricating and reliability of them.
So it looks like I need a new decoder or try to clip those caps. Bottom line.
Thanks.
Well, soldering is nothing for me but I need wiring diagrams which the locomotives lack. The decoders have diagrams. I have never wired a loco directly and wouldn't even know where to begin. Maybe your site you gave me might help. I haven't visited it yet. This "hobby" can be very trying at times.
Your going to have to learn to figure some things out yourself in this hobby. If you remove the shell, there are 2 wires from the motor, two from front, and two from rear truck, these are power pickups. 4 other wires are lights. It/s a case of unhooking the light board (the wires are not soldered to the board, but held on by black clips. Its as simple as tracing where the wires go to. The decoder you decide to purchase will have a wiring diagram, you just need to know what wire is which.
Perhaps you should just return the loco to Bachmann under warranty. Even with the Bachmann decoder and light board, I did not need to full power to get it going, my low speed was jerky.
Good luck
EDIT
Geared Steam Well, soldering is nothing for me but I need wiring diagrams which the locomotives lack. The decoders have diagrams. I have never wired a loco directly and wouldn't even know where to begin. Maybe your site you gave me might help. I haven't visited it yet. This "hobby" can be very trying at times. Your going to have to learn to figure some things out yourself in this hobby. If you remove the shell, there are 2 wires from the motor, two from front, and two from rear truck, these are power pickups. 4 other wires are lights. It/s a case of unhooking the light board (the wires are not soldered to the board, but held on by black clips. Its as simple as tracing where the wires go to. The decoder you decide to purchase will have a wiring diagram, you just need to know what wire is which. Perhaps you should just return the loco to Bachmann under warranty. Even with the Bachmann decoder and light board, I did not need to full power to get it going, my low speed was jerky. Good luck EDIT
Thanks for the photos. This is exactly what I have. You're right, I am going to have to figure things out.
By the way, what do you use to strip those wires? My aircraft quality strippers have teeth ranging from 18G to 26G but these wires are even smaller. How do you strip them?
Actually, I would agree with GEARED STEAM, this was a new purchase, take advantage of Bachmann's warranty, call them up, tell them the engine won't move untill you turn it up all the way (this is not normal even with the cheap decoder), they will have you send yours in and they will send you a new one by return mail. Bachmann is usually pretty quick, however they are located somewhere in New Jersey, so you might want to ask them if they are ok or should you expect a delay because of Sandy. I would also ask if the replacement will be in the same roadname, if not should you remove and keep your shell.
modelmaker51 Actually, I would agree with GEARED STEAM, this was a new purchase, take advantage of Bachmann's warranty, call them up, tell them the engine won't move untill you turn it up all the way (this is not normal even with the cheap decoder), they will have you send yours in and they will send you a new one by return mail. Bachmann is usually pretty quick, however they are located somewhere in New Jersey, so you might want to ask them if they are ok or should you expect a delay because of Sandy. I would also ask if the replacement will be in the same roadname, if not should you remove and keep your shell.
I might as well give it a try. It's no good the way it is.
Again, the two green resistor like devices are Ferrite Inductors. Do a Google search for ferrite inductor color code and read the value.
My two 44 ton DCC ready had two wire wound inductors which were easy to see. They also had the label, L1 and L2.
The PC boards usually have a C prefix for Caps. L for inductors. D for diodes. R for resistor.
The inside of the shrink wrapped decoder is not the place to look for the caps.
Some had the yellow blob caps. Some SMD caps on the PC board. Those would be small black square items with, you guessed it, C prefix for each one.
Some might have had the yellow blobs right on the motor leads. My Spectrum 70 ton had three yellow blob caps right on the motor leads.
Bachmann has had a wide variety of cap placements. Some locos have one cap, some two, some three.
Yes, Bachmann is consistently, inconsistent.
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
Most here are not aware that Bachmann has a site with a couple reps there. All the info is at the below site. Take some time and look around.
http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/board/index.php
Hi there. I'm over in the UK and i recently got one these beasts s/h. Its DCC, standard decoder and does run well except for a growl. I'll strip and clean it and I intend to fit a Loksound chip to it. Don't know yet where the speaker will go. I also use an NCE controller.
Just got back rom a train show. Took the 44 tonner with me to find a speaker for it. Result. I came away with one that measures 1/2x3/8x1/8 inches. It'll work well with the intended Loksound chip and will fit under the roof or, possibly, under the light board under the bonnet. Have to see what happens when it's fitted. I don't know the make of it unfortunately.