Can anyone tell me if this is normal? I have a Bachman GE 44 ton switcher, DCC, item # 62209. Since I bought it it has always been VERY sluggish to get started. I have to crank up the cab to ALMOST full power to get it moving. Once moving it will operate okay but it seems like it lags a lot and is not smooth, it lurches and such. I opened it tonight and noticed it has cheesy worm gears driving the wheels. Could this be part of the problem? Is it just a lousy, cheap, loco? Can I fix it by reprogramming a CV or two?
Thanks.
Paul the VERY new newbie.
Sounds like maybe a cracked gear. That does happen with the two motor and sometimes, the single motor. Since yours is the DCC, it is the single motor.
Are you running this loco on DC or DCC? If DC, dual mode decoders require more voltage than a non decoder loco.
Dirty track and wheels can also cause running issues. Not looks clean but have actually been cleaned.
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
I have a couple 44 tonners. The worm gears are NOT cheesy. Mine work quite well with a sound decoder. They start moving at about 1 mph.
The locomotive itself is grand. The decoder is typical Bachmann, cheap. I replaced with with an N/Z scale Train Control Systems decoder. If interested I can try to post pics or just email them to you. It instantly changed this thing into a little beast. You can use other brands I just already have bunch of locos with Digitrax and decided I wanted something different.
On the other hand making sure the gears are properly lubricrated, giving the little loco a good break, and monkeying around with V start (CV3 IIRC) may help. Like I said, the loco is great, just not the Bachmann decoder. I doubt you would have problems if you wired for DC.
richg1998 Sounds like maybe a cracked gear. That does happen with the two motor and sometimes, the single motor. Since yours is the DCC, it is the single motor. Are you running this loco on DC or DCC? If DC, dual mode decoders require more voltage than a non decoder loco. Dirty track and wheels can also cause running issues. Not looks clean but have actually been cleaned. Rich
Hi Rich and thanks.
This is a single motor I think. There is a worm gear system on each truck.
Just DCC.
Track is brand new and very clean and the loco is new and has only been run a couple of times. Wheel are clean.
richg1998 I have a couple 44 tonners. The worm gears are NOT cheesy. Mine work quite well with a sound decoder. They start moving at about 1 mph. Rich
Well, I certainly didn't intend on stepping on anyone's toes. It just looks kind of cheesy to me that's all. No offense.
If you are running it on DCC, do a decoder reset.
Also, clip the yellow blob capacitors.They are known to cause running issues.
The trucks are easy to remove. Motor is easy to remove, also.
Do some troubleshooting.
BerkshireSteam The locomotive itself is grand. The decoder is typical Bachmann, cheap. I replaced with with an N/Z scale Train Control Systems decoder. If interested I can try to post pics or just email them to you. It instantly changed this thing into a little beast. You can use other brands I just already have bunch of locos with Digitrax and decided I wanted something different. On the other hand making sure the gears are properly lubricrated, giving the little loco a good break, and monkeying around with V start (CV3 IIRC) may help. Like I said, the loco is great, just not the Bachmann decoder. I doubt you would have problems if you wired for DC.
Perhaps that's it. Yes, please email some photos. You can send a PM and I'll send my email address I guess.
I guess I should replace the decoder then.
Does yours have an added decoder or the original Bachmann decoder? Those are not the best.
TCS are very good decoders, by the way. Many use them. You have another issue.
richg1998 If you are running it on DCC, do a decoder reset. Also, clip the yellow blob capacitors.They are known to cause running issues. The trucks are easy to remove. Motor is easy to remove, also. Do some troubleshooting. Rich
Sending a photo as soon as I upload it to PB.
Don't see any yellow caps.
Since you are on line, clip any yellow blob caps and do a decoder reset. CV8, enter 8.
Paul_in_GA richg1998 If you are running it on DCC, do a decoder reset. Also, clip the yellow blob capacitors.They are known to cause running issues. The trucks are easy to remove. Motor is easy to remove, also. Do some troubleshooting. Rich Sending a photo as soon as I upload it to PB. Don't see any yellow caps.
Are the caps under the heat shrink?
Oops. Someone else here. I will let him finish this.
LION has two of these locomotives which I bought more than a year ago. The have not even been around my layout even once. I will treat them like I do my subway cars: I will remove the entire circuit board and wire the motors directly to the wheels. When I decide on what consist they will pull, I will train-line them to the tail car and give the train all wheel pickup.
ROAR
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Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
richg1998 Since you are on line, clip any yellow blob caps and do a decoder reset. CV8, enter 8. Rich
I have an NCE DCC and the book is hard to decipher. I haven't programmed any CV's yet. Exactly how do I get to and use CV 8?
BroadwayLion LION has two of these locomotives which I bought more than a year ago. The have not even been around my layout even once. I will treat them like I do my subway cars: I will remove the entire circuit board and wire the motors directly to the wheels. When I decide on what consist they will pull, I will train-line them to the tail car and give the train all wheel pickup. ROAR
Ummm, okay, how? I've never done this.
I have not yet done this to these locomotives, but on the Walther subway cars I just remove the entire circuit board and just wire the motors directly to the wheels.
To train line a set is more complicated, you would have to remove the couplers, install draw-bars and hard wire the cars together from one end of the train to the other. On my subway consists there are six-car lash-ups, and I needed to build a special foam jig just to move the cars from bench to table. But with 48 wheel power pick-up there is never any hesitation.
Nothing advanced here.
I built my own circuit boards to provide continous lighting even when the train is stopped. I'll let you know how I did that once I can make it do what I want.
BroadwayLion I have not yet done this to these locomotives, but on the Walther subway cars I just remove the entire circuit board and just wire the motors directly to the wheels. To train line a set is more complicated, you would have to remove the couplers, install draw-bars and hard wire the cars together from one end of the train to the other. On my subway consists there are six-car lash-ups, and I needed to build a special foam jig just to move the cars from bench to table. But with 48 wheel power pick-up there is never any hesitation. Nothing advanced here. I built my own circuit boards to provide continous lighting even when the train is stopped. I'll let you know how I did that once I can make it do what I want. ROAR
No, HOW do you wire the motors directly to the wheels? This might be too much to go into right now.
I'm still trying to figure out how to program CV's with my NCE DCC CAB. I changed the numbers of the locos but haven't had any luck changing CV parameters. I guess I need to read up on it some more.
Paul_in_GA No, HOW do you wire the motors directly to the wheels? This might be too much to go into right now. I'm still trying to figure out how to program CV's with my NCE DCC CAB. I changed the numbers of the locos but haven't had any luck changing CV parameters. I guess I need to read up on it some more.
Basically, doing this will bypass the decoder. Not a good thing if you are using DCC.
Brad
EMD - Every Model Different
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CSX - Coal Spilling eXperts
Hey,
If you are 'in there' & have the worms open, do this test..
Pull those drive shafts & worms out, & then fire it up on your DCC track & listen close to the motor.A) does it start easily at low throttle range & run evenly 'through' the range"B) add slight tension to it with your thunmb on a flywheel or spinning surface & see if it does the same..That may tell you if it is decoder &/or Load releated.
If all is well there, I would remove the bottom plate from the trucks/disassemble the trucks to make sure there is not any hardened grease chunks (curds) in there, & fully clean & inspect for damage.This may be the real culprit, if kept running that way, may overload the DDC decoder or break a gear tooth.
I hope this will help, when running properly these are good little performers, I hope you find out what the issue is & can make it into one of your favorites. Best of luck!
ChadLRyan Hey, If you are 'in there' & have the worms open, do this test.. Pull those drive shafts & worms out, & then fire it up on your DCC track & listen close to the motor.A) does it start easily at low throttle range & run evenly 'through' the range"B) add slight tension to it with your thunmb on a flywheel or spinning surface & see if it does the same..That may tell you if it is decoder &/or Load releated. If all is well there, I would remove the bottom plate from the trucks/disassemble the trucks to make sure there is not any hardened grease chunks (curds) in there, & fully clean & inspect for damage.This may be the real culprit, if kept running that way, may overload the DDC decoder or break a gear tooth. I hope this will help, when running properly these are good little performers, I hope you find out what the issue is & can make it into one of your favorites. Best of luck!
Hi Chad,
I have the shell off, how do I pull the drive shafts and worms out? I know as it is now it has to be all the way up to 28 to even start moving.
Paul_in_GA ChadLRyan Hey, If you are 'in there' & have the worms open, do this test.. Pull those drive shafts & worms out, & then fire it up on your DCC track & listen close to the motor.A) does it start easily at low throttle range & run evenly 'through' the range"B) add slight tension to it with your thunmb on a flywheel or spinning surface & see if it does the same..That may tell you if it is decoder &/or Load releated. If all is well there, I would remove the bottom plate from the trucks/disassemble the trucks to make sure there is not any hardened grease chunks (curds) in there, & fully clean & inspect for damage.This may be the real culprit, if kept running that way, may overload the DDC decoder or break a gear tooth. I hope this will help, when running properly these are good little performers, I hope you find out what the issue is & can make it into one of your favorites. Best of luck! Hi Chad, I have the shell off, how do I pull the drive shafts and worms out? I know as it is now it has to be all the way up to 28 to even start moving.
OK, I pulled out the worm gear and shafts and ran it and the motor spins up REAL fast and smooth. NICE. I'll bet it's full of gunk. How do I clean it? What do I use to clean it with? And what do I use to re-lube it?
Paul,Well that's a start, starting good news too.Honestly I do not have a 44T, but I do have a 45T, so let me go get it & see how I can figure out how it is assembled. -Hoping they are very similar, & you told me yours was a single motor like mine..
There should be a diagram in the box, I will check mine to help me along.
Usually the Tower Clip, over the worm gear will let the truck drop out, but the Bachmanns may differ.Also, ther are commonly a bottom clip that holds the axles in place that cvan be popped out (very carefully) with 2 Knife blades on the clips or other thin wedge shapes.
Another thing you may be able to 'Feel' is if you run the trucks (without the worm drives) over track, & they do not roll freely, there may be an issue. However, if it is geared low (which these are) they may 'seem' sticky..
Hold on, please & let me see what I can come up with..Other folks can chime in if they have the 44Tonners, ...Please.
OK, On my 45T my trucks will pop out from the bottom of the chassis, & have two tabs that locate them into the Worm Hub.The bottom Truck Cover plate has Tabs on the bottom of the Front & Rear of the 'drive box'.One end can be popped off & then the other can be hinged out as in a lifting motion from the 'popped' side.(PS: Even in my new model, there was lots of grease & it is easy to see how it could get thick or clogged, as the covers are actually open on the bottom, & could pick up debris).
If you can wait, I will take a picture so you can see if they are similar.Also 'Full Disassembly' will go further, & I will also talk about that.
Again, Hold Please.....
ChadLRyan Paul,Well that's a start, starting good news too.Honestly I do not have a 44T, but I do have a 45T, so let me go get it & see how I can figure out how it is assembled. -Hoping they are very similar, & you told me yours was a single motor like mine.. There should be a diagram in the box, I will check mine to help me along. Usually the Tower Clip, over the worm gear will let the truck drop out, but the Bachmanns may differ.Also, ther are commonly a bottom clip that holds the axles in place that cvan be popped out (very carefully) with 2 Knife blades on the clips or other thin wedge shapes. Another thing you may be able to 'Feel' is if you run the trucks (without the worm drives) over track, & they do not roll freely, there may be an issue. However, if it is geared low (which these are) they may 'seem' sticky.. Hold on, please & let me see what I can come up with..Other folks can chime in if they have the 44Tonners, ...Please.
Chad, I got it apart, the wheels turn freely. I did accidentally break off two of the wires but I had to re-strip them and place them back in their little slide on clips. Holy cow!! What is this like 28 0r 30 gauge wire? I mean those wires are TINY!
I put it all back together again except for the shell and it still runs poorly. I have to jack up the speed all the way to 28 to get it started it seems. I did let one truck run on the track while I lifted the wheels off on the other end, did this on both ends and it runs FAST if I let it at full throttle but at slower speeds it is just VERY slow starting. Is this normal for this type of worm gear loco?
Paul_in_GA ChadLRyan Paul,Well that's a start, starting good news too.Honestly I do not have a 44T, but I do have a 45T, so let me go get it & see how I can figure out how it is assembled. -Hoping they are very similar, & you told me yours was a single motor like mine.. There should be a diagram in the box, I will check mine to help me along. Usually the Tower Clip, over the worm gear will let the truck drop out, but the Bachmanns may differ.Also, ther are commonly a bottom clip that holds the axles in place that cvan be popped out (very carefully) with 2 Knife blades on the clips or other thin wedge shapes. Another thing you may be able to 'Feel' is if you run the trucks (without the worm drives) over track, & they do not roll freely, there may be an issue. However, if it is geared low (which these are) they may 'seem' sticky.. Hold on, please & let me see what I can come up with..Other folks can chime in if they have the 44Tonners, ...Please. Chad, I got it apart, the wheels turn freely. I did accidentally break off two of the wires but I had to re-strip them and place them back in their little slide on clips. Holy cow!! What is this like 28 0r 30 gauge wire? I mean those wires are TINY! I put it all back together again except for the shell and it still runs poorly. I have to jack up the speed all the way to 28 to get it started it seems. I did let one truck run on the track while I lifted the wheels off on the other end, did this on both ends and it runs FAST if I let it at full throttle but at slower speeds it is just VERY slow starting. Is this normal for this type of worm gear loco?
I can wait and a pic would be nice. Thanks. The only thing I didn't do was drop the trucks out. I'm afraid to break any wires!
What I REALLY need is some NCE CV help. This manual is very confusing. I was thinking about hiking the CV2, CV 116, & CV 227 but can't figure out how to do this through the CAB.
Anyone else out there with an NCE PowerCab that would be willing to walk me through programming CV's or maybe just getting factory reset to work? All I get is "what number do you want to put in? and I have to ESC out which does a whole lot of nothing.
Which TCS decoder did you use? I normally replace Bachmann decoders with Digitrax, but prefer TCS when possible. I understand that a couple of ¼" stick on weights also helps the beast factor. Have not tried that yet either.
wojosa31 BerkshireSteam The locomotive itself is grand. The decoder is typical Bachmann, cheap. I replaced with with an N/Z scale Train Control Systems decoder. If interested I can try to post pics or just email them to you. It instantly changed this thing into a little beast. You can use other brands I just already have bunch of locos with Digitrax and decided I wanted something different. On the other hand making sure the gears are properly lubricrated, giving the little loco a good break, and monkeying around with V start (CV3 IIRC) may help. Like I said, the loco is great, just not the Bachmann decoder. I doubt you would have problems if you wired for DC. Which TCS decoder did you use? I normally replace Bachmann decoders with Digitrax, but prefer TCS when possible. I understand that a couple of ¼" stick on weights also helps the beast factor. Have not tried that yet either.
Not sure which one is installed, haven't looked it up yet as it came factory installed.
Paul,
If you saw wires, we may be talking different units & my efforts my have been misleading, & I do apologize.However, should any major parts resemble these, I do hope it is of some benefit to you.Please click on the Photo, or bottom of the Photo to enlarge it to 'FULL Size'.Paul, I was hoping your unit would be more like this one, but it sounds like it is very different, I hope I have not led you down a wrong path.
PS, I have limited space, & may remove this, so for everyone, (as usual) please save this picture if you feel you would like to reference it in the future! I will honor a request for it if it is missing, as I only delete the internet link, not the master picture. Thanks