I'm not new to model railroading, but I am to kit bashing/customizing trains. im trying to build the current 5 car consist of the Nebraska Zephyr as it is in the Illinois Railway Museum. I know I'm going to have to custom build the entire thing, including the engine. Is there any specific sites i should go to to find similar coaches/engine in order to get me started? If anybody has anything to say on the subject I would appreciate it
Brass models of Burlington E5's are sometimes being sold at train shows and on Ebay. . ...... The train would be a big challenge to kit-bash. The Con-Cor Pioneer Zephyr is the only articulated train of Burlington prototype in HO. It would be costly to do that, and many changes would be needed. ... I would look for a brass model of the train, too.
GARRY
HEARTLAND DIVISION, CB&Q RR
EVERYWHERE LOST; WE HUSTLE OUR CABOOSE FOR YOU
I have seen Burlington E-5s that were made from Proto E-6 engines. The overall lines of the two engines are very similar, it was mainly an issue of adding some details like side skirting.
Don't let the super-nitpickers read this, but I bet if you got a "fresh out of the box" Proto E-6 and decorated it as a Burlington E-5, very few people would ever notice the difference.
Too bad you're not in N scale as it appears that Kato is doing the complete train in N.
http://www.nscaledivision.com/kato_new_announcements.htm
Now there's a pike sized passenger train for you.
Andre
Back in 1982, Al Turner described how to kitbash the Pioneer Zephyr from Athearn streamlined car kits. His two-part article (in the February and March issues of Model Railroader) showed techniques that would be applicable to modeling the cars of the Nebraska Zephyr's Train of the Godesses.
Basically, he cut the sides from the roofs of the Athearn cars, then cut the window strips out. He shortened the cars, rearranged the windows, and built coupler-bolsters to re-use the Athearn trucks between the cars.
-Fritz Milhaupt, Publications Editor, Pere Marquette Historical Society, Inc.http://www.pmhistsoc.org
thanks for the ideas everyone. i was hoping to find a cheaper way to do it then brass but since i want it to look good for my wife, i'm gonna have to spend a decent penny
One of the gentlemen from Alclad discussed with me, via email, the idea of taking a P2K E6, paint stripping it, and refinishing it with Alclad2 into the CB&Q scheme to make it resemble the classic E5.
Although I'm not a CB&Q modeler, I find the idea interesting and am considering it, although it would have to be after I finish metalizing my current Walthers Budd and Pullman Standard Fleet (I think I still have 9 or 10 more cars to do!).
"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"
The Kato N scale E5 is very nice, but the train is a standard Zephyr consist not the articulated and low slung Nebraska Zephyr trainset.
Al Turner's 1982 articles, with the appropriate modifications, would indeed seem to provide some very solid hints as to how to approximate the preserved Nebraska Zephyr trainset (which was originally pulled by a shovel nose although not exactly like the Pioneer Zephyr).
There was a similar article in the October 1959 Model Railroader by Tom Busack - he used Mantua extruded metal streamliners which at that time you could buy "unpunched" from Mantua.
Dave Nelson
I understand that this is, by now, an ancient thread-- but I did figure out a way to make a relatively cheap Nebraska Zephyr:
http://magicicada.org/Other/2017/04/06/cbq-e5-part-1/
Credit to the photographer
Hello Cicada,
Always enjoyable to see passenger rail modelers posting; especially when it's regarding stainless steel equipment!
I looked through the link that you posted and, imho, the author took some very good steps in modifying his models.
However, if you're taking this route, I'd like to respectfully offer some suggestions in the "Paint Departemt" that may be helpful in achieving very positive results".
1. For the color foundation....do not use a black base! Go with a gray tone as it will help yield a more prototypical stainless steel appearance rather than a "chrome bumper" appearance. This is a Walthers unit I did a while back:
2. Instead of Tamiya, consider using Scale Coat II NYC Dk Gray.
Over a clean smooth surface it yields a hard, high gloss. No need to apply clear over it. NOTE: Practice on scrap pieces first. The goal is to airbrush it on as smooth as glass. A rough or textured finish will negatively impact the appearance. Scale Coat recommends thinning 2/3 paint to 1/3 thinnier. Instead, thin it more (40% to 50%) and test it on your samples! The results make it worth the time. If you have no spare junker-rail cars, used plastic coffee can lids, discarded compact CD's, or CD cases.
3. After applying the Alclad II metalizer, apply one THIN, smooth coat of gloss clear. It will realistically tone down the high shine and, once hardened, provide a foundation for your decals.
3a. Once you finish applying your decals, you can either mask around them and seal them with another coat of clear OR seal the entire body with clear (if you wish to tone down the high sheen some more.
When you're ready to paint, if I can be of help for tips send me a PM anytime! I don't post as often as I used to, but I do check this forum twice a day. Good group of modelers here.
You may have seen this already, but just in case, here's a thread I posted a few years back on applying Alclad. I hope it's helpful:
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/195132.aspx
Oops!
Forgot to mention a BIG caution.
Please DO NOT used Walthers Solvaset for applying decals over any Alclad metalizer finishes. If, by chance, the clearcoat over the Alclad II metalilzer is not completely cured, small amounts of the Solvaset will leach through it and damage the Alclad finish.
Play it safe and use Microscale's Microset and Microsol. I've been using both products for over 2 decades and have had no issues.
Don't be afraid to update us and show your progress by posting photos.
Thanks! I have long admired your work.
If I had it to do over, I would use the grey instead of the black, for sure. I went down the black route with the Athearn cars I experimented on, so there I was (the Athearn baggage is now part of the articulated Zephyr set). The real disaster of the bunch is the E5-- whatever happened to my first attempt with the Alclad gloss black really did a number on the surface, and all the hours I spent polishing were wasted. I did what I could after I stripped the mess off, but if you look closely, it's far from a perfect finish.
I also agree about the Solvaset-- that stuff is only for desperate situations. The beauty of this project is that no decal setting solution is really needed-- everything is absolutely flat, and no decals go over any details, so they sit right down and stick.
Before decalling, I painted everything with Tamiya clearcoat-- I've resorted to rattle cans, because my airbrush is on its last legs. I put down a nice wet coat and let it dry for days before decalling-- then once the decals are dry, I hit the whole thing with another coat. Everything must be coated-- roofs too-- since the raw Alclad seems easily damaged.
I'm in the process of finishing Juno now-- it's painted black and must sit for a few days before Alclad. Progress has also been slow because I got distracted-- I can't seem to post images here, but I put the photo at the end of the Zephyr thread-- if the Nebraska Zephyr trainset had been in service in the 1970s, what would have pulled it? E7 9920, of course. It was an excuse to build more Model Power E units....now I have to scrounge some more, since those were cobbled together from the last pieces in the junk box.
The old Hallmark brass E5's can be had for a decent price online when they pop up. But would need a better drive as they are from the "coffee grinder" era of brass diesels. The Challenger imports and Overland Models versions are super nice but also super expensive. The "train of the gods" that the Silver Pilot pulls today is the real challenge to model. Atleast the 9911 runs without her truck skirts, so the need to model that detail isnt required. So the Proto2k E6 to E5 is a good idea. Mike the Aspie
Silly NT's, I have Asperger's Syndrome
It's done:
http://magicicada.org/Other/2019/10/24/cbq-e5-part-8-the-nebraska-zephyr/
It's far from perfect, but everything has a learning curve, and if I were ever to build another one, there are plenty of ways I could improve.
One of the biggest sticking points is gluing on the fluting. Too much glue, and the plastic fluting will melt and look ripply. I was a bit heavy handed on the E5, but I got the technique down for Juno-- basically, apply the glue, scrape it all off, and apply the fluting quickly, when the glue has just started to dry. The Testors blue is slightly slower and less "hot" than the Testors red, so it works a little better.
So after finishing my plastic E5, I got a good enough deal on a Hallmark E5A-B set. This model has some good points... and some bad points. The biggest bad point is the mechanism; it's clear that no amount of fiddling will ever make it run that well, and the best strategy will be to replace everything but the frame. The second bad point about this particular model is the finish-- it's been dullcoted. That's easy enough to remove, but then what are the best ways to polish the nickel plated finish?
I am a glutton for punishment, and I recently got my hands on a Hobbytown Multidrive setup and some Cary pewter E6 shells. Lots of it is junk, but there are enough good parts there to build another E5 A-B set, with multidrive no less. The Cary pewter is hard to work with, but there are also some convenient possibilities for corner-cutting (for instance, I'm not starting with a donor locomotive that fell 7 feet onto a hard floor)..... so I think I see another E5 winter project here.... stay tuned.
I hate to dig up an old thread. But unfortunately, the site that Cicada2 linked to has 404'd. Has anyone archived it?
I wonder what ever became of SirFailsAlot.
He probably failed to follow through on this project.
Rich
Alton Junction
I don't have anything that can help you but I rode the Nebraska Zephyr from Chicago to Omaha early in 1960. This was the return trip for our family. We had traveled to Chicago for Christmas in 1959 and then taken a side trip to Milwaukee on the North Shore for New Year's Day. I'm not sure what train we took going to Chicago but we had an early morning departure and got to Chicago before dark and that doesn't fit with the Nebraska Zephyr schedule. Going home it was dark when we crossed the Missouri River and that fits with the Zephyr's 8:45 pm arrival time in Omaha.
UPDATE: I didn't notice this was a Zombie thread when I responded.
John-NYBWUPDATE: I didn't notice this was a Zombie thread when I responded.
The Cicada became a Cricket? His posts are not attributed to "Anonymous" so I assume he is still in theory an active member of the Forums. I'd love to see the completed and final effort.
I know there is this bias against reviving old threads but I am in favor of having one thread be a repository of information on the topic to the extent possible, even if that means multiple revivals and even if the OP is gone or no longer interested.
A few random things to be added.
First, the trainset (but not the locomotive) to the Nebraska Zephyr is one of the two Twin Zephyrs of 1936. The Nebraska Zephyr per se is from the 1940s but the articulated consist is a decade older. And it still looks great thanks to stainless steel.
Second also built in 1936, and thus likely to share some of the design attributes, was the Mark Twain Zephyr, which includes the original Shovel Nose diesel but not the prime mover itself. That train including the locomotive is being rebuilt for tourist operation by the Wisconsin Great Northern Railroad and their website has interesting info and photos of the "innards and guts" of the cars and locomotive -- more data for the scratchbuilder or kit-mingler. Once that train is up and running (prime mover donated from an SW switcher) and people can ride it I think there will be even more interest in following our colleague Cicada's ideas about building the articulated train set for any of the articulated Zephyrs. By the way the Wis Great Northern folks also acquired the spare coach that was built for the Pioneer Zephyr but put aside for the Museum of Science and Industry's preservation, so in an interesting way the WGNR folks will have a unique train on their hands.
I remember coming across a forum about ten years ago. I can't remember exactly what it was about but it was something political. One particular thread caught my eye and after reading through the posts I felt compelled to contribute my 2 cents to the discussion. I took my time to type out what I thought was a well reasoned post with a number of cites to back up my arguments. After hitting SEND, I started reading through some of the other threads and that's when I discovered that I was the first person who had posted to that forum in seven years. It was an internet ghost town.