What criteria do people use to determine how well a model freight car should roll?
I've been testing cars to determine at what percent grade the car will spontaneously start to roll. For a simple test on the workbench I put a 1/4 inch drill bit under a 31.5 inch long 2x4 with a short length of track for a 0.8% grade and if the car won't roll by itself I'll use the Micro-mark 'truck tuner' to clean up the journals. Then I'll move the drill bit, find the length where the car will spontaneously roll and calculate the grade. Lots of cars roll at 0.8%, after 'tuning' others are in the range of 1.5% to 2%, with the worst of a small sample being 2.2%.
If cars do not roll well, then I'm limiting the length of trains that can climb up out of my staging yards with a single steam engine. {The much steeper grades on the visible part of the layout are not a problem because it is supposed to be a 'helper district'.}
If cars roll too well, then they won't stay spotted in yards or industry tracks where "flat" could be up to perhaps a 0.5% grade.
So what criteria do you use to determine how well a freight car should roll? In addition, do you have standards for how "flat" your yard and industry tracks are?
Grinnell Jones
Gidday Grinnell, I took my standards from an article by John McKeeman in the June 1980 RMC. He referred to a free rolling capability on a 3% test grade.
I have instead adopted 2% as my standard.
I suspect that 0.8% would be too "good" for me, though I do appreciate why it would be advantageous for your rolling stock to do so regarding train length, though it appears that you are also experiencing the "down" side.
Just out of curiosity what is your optimum single steam engine train length?
Cheers, the Bear.
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
I'm not very scientific.
I lightly ream the journals and sand the axle ends to remove any flash or roughness. Then I spin each axle and work on the ones that don't spin freely. Then I put the car on level track and give it a push so see if it moves well, if not I work on it some more.
All very subjective, but it works for me. I seldom run a train over about 10 cars and the layout is level. So it works for me. Longer trains and grades I'd probably be more rigorous.
Enjoy
Paul
Grinnell,
Here is my standard 'overhaul' of any piece of rolling stock:
I then test roll the trucks on my desk top to make sure that they are very free rolling. Once I have 'right weighted' the car as clase as I can to the suggested NMRA weight, I replace plastic couplers with metal ones and re-assemble the car. I have a 18" piece of track mounted to a piece of maple stock and it has 1/8" shim glue to the bottom of one end. - .7% grade). All cars must roll down that grade to be 'layout ready'
I have adjusted several spurs to get them 'flat'. My yard is pretty flas and a standing cut of 3-4 cars will not roll away. The mainline grade is 2.7% and my BLI 2-8-2's will pull a 12 car(plus caboose) up that winding grade. My Spectrum 2-8-0's can handle 7-8 cars up the 'hill'.
As you may have noticed, I am very through about my rolling stock standards. I find that very free rolling weighted car perform better and the coupling action is improved.
Jim
Modeling BNSF and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin
My method is simple.
Upon inspecting a new car I insure the trucks roll smoothly and the wheels are in gauge.There are some brands of cars that gets their wheels change out automatically-Walthers and Accurail.I use Athearn trucks for this change out.
For the cars I have converted to metal wheels I use the Reboxx EXXACT Socket(aka the tool) and installed P2K Wheel sets.
For my cars that come equipped with metal wheels I simply use the socket and then check the balance( for wobble) and gauge.Those that fail is replaced..
As far as adding weight I don't use RP20.1..I add extra weight only if the car is extremely light..
Couplers are changed out to KD 5s or 148s then rechecked for correct height..The only exceptoin is my newer Walthers cars that comes equipped with Walthers all metal Protomax coupler.
As a side note..I decided to separate the goats from the sheep and equipped the better cars with Intermountain wheel sets.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
i have done something similar using the .75% grade on my yard lead to determine rolling qualities. if the car starts on it's own, then it is a matter of how far down the track it goes before stopping. i will not go into great detail here but after receiving the needed attention to make them roll better, all cars get small colored bits of paper stuck to their tack boards, each color representing an approximation of how well the car rolls. this is helpful in figuring "tonnage" for road trains.
charlie
Based on my limited testing, it would be fairly easy to obtain a 2% grade standard. Anything under 1% would be more difficult. For example, my (metal wheeled) Branchline box cars tend to be 1.5 to 2% even after using the truck tuner. The only ones that roll decently had couplers that were too high so they were replaced with a 'drop coupler' and then the car was raised with a washer on the bolster (so there was some subtile interference between the wheels and the underbody that I haven't found yet.)
I'm trying to be able to haul 24 car trains up 1% and 1.5% (compensated) grades out of my staging yards with one big steam loco (2-8-8-2, 4-6-6-4, 4-8-4). Some locos are better than others that will need all the help they can get from free rolling cars.
I've got Intermountain wheel sets on order and will embark on a plastic wheel replacement campaign as soon as the wheels get here from China.
Grinnell
I try to have all rolling stock start on their own at 2% grade or less. I also use the truck tuner from MicroMark and usually do some lubricating with graphite powder. Most of my cars have had their trucks and axles replaced with kadee ones. They seem to be very free rolling and don't need a lot of work.
73
Ray Seneca Lake, Ontario, and Western R.R. (S.L.O.&W.) in HO
We'll get there sooner or later!
I don't worry too much about how well a car will roll, although I now use the truck tuner for everything new that goes on the layout. Most of my layout is on grades and curves, but trains are usually 12 cars or less, easily handled by a single Bachmann Consolidation or an Athearn Mike. The ruling on-layout grade is 2.5%, (and there are several of them on the layout, with one 3/4 of an HO scale mile long) although the curves probably add at least another 1% to that. For longer or heavier trains, I simply doublehead and/or add a pusher. My coal trains are also all 12 cars plus a caboose, but all require two locos because I use "live" loads, with the total trailing weight at 100oz.If a car seems especially sluggish, I'll use the truck tuner, but I seldom bother to replace plastic wheels with metal ones. I have a few wooden baggage cars (converted from Athearn BlueBox heavyweight Pullmans) which won't roll down the 2.5% grades, even when pushed. They have metal wheels in riveted metal sideframes, so even the truck tuner is of no use. Eventually, I may change-out the trucks, although most passenger trains are short, and if extra power is required, I simply add another loco. Even using DC, most of my steamers run well with one another and each loco has a "tonnage rating" (expressed as the number of "average" cars it can handle on the ruling grade - loaded hoppers are each counted as two cars).
I recently converted eight Athearn BlueBox cars to represent cars of an earlier design. The cars' sides were lowered by about 12", and the cars got new ends and doors (Tichy), roofs (Des Plaines Hobbies), floors and underframes (Central Valley) and trucks (Proto2000). These trucks seem to be very free-rolling, so I placed one car at the top of the grade between South Cayuga and Elfrida, and with one truck on the grade, simply let go of the car.
While there's no track shown on this diagram, the car started at the lower part of South Cayuga, then the track curves to the right, straightens, then crosses the Speed River. The track enters a tunnel then curves to the left, straightens again and exits the tunnel still on the 2.5% grade. (The track doesn't follow around the perimeter of the peninsula, but simply crosses its base.)
Here's the car crossing the Speed River...
...and about to enter the tunnel...
...after exiting the tunnel and entering Elfrida, the track levels out just about where the car is shown below:
Through town, the track is level, and remains so well into this curve...
...although as the car rolls out onto the bridge over Chippawa Creek, the track begins to slope downhill again, although at a lesser percentage...
...and continues to descend as it crosses Indian Line on a broad curve...
Rolling out onto the Maitland River bridge, the track levels out again...
...and remains level into Lowbanks...
...and past the station...
...and, still on level track, the car rolls around the curve into Port Maitland...
...then past the inlet of Lake Erie and the GERN warehouse...
...and through a number of turnouts past the GERN silos...
...finally coming to rest on the curve between the structures of the GERN complex, on level track and a mere 100' HO from the layout room's entrance, where the lift-out was not in place
Total distance travelled was just over one HO scale mile.Based on this test, management has decided that a savings in coal consumption can be had by eliminating locomotives on all westbound through trains. Positions are now available for experienced brakemen to ride the cars, applying handbrakes where necessary. Applicants should have nerves of steel and several changes of underwear.
Wayne
I'm in the "unscientific" camp as well. Each new acquisition gets the truck tuner and a dash of graphite lubricant. It should roll "freely" on the track (several feet from a gentle push). No more scientific than that.
I have one car that refuses to roll under any circumstances, despite lubricants and tuning the trucks. I suspect the trucks are misaligned, because each of the wheels individually spins pretty well. I'll eventually change out the trucks.
OTOH, I have a bunch of portable derails that I made using an article in MR (about 5 yrs ago). These keep cars from rolling when I don't want them to.
Connecticut Valley Railroad A Branch of the New York, New Haven, and Hartford
"If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right." -- Henry Ford
The Intermountain wheel sets finally got here, so I've started a campaign to replace plastic wheels and after using the Micro-Mark 'truck tuner' I've been able to get everyting to spontaneously roll down my 0.8% test grade. Interestingly, I had lots of "brand X" metal wheel sets that, after using the truck tuner, would not start to roll on the 0.8% grade. After replacing "brand x" metal wheels with Intermountain wheel sets they have all passed the 0.8% grade test (so far). Brand X metal wheels have included: Branchline, Exact Rail (had to remove the dragging brake shoes also), Accurail RTR, some Walthers and one Intermountain RTR car.
Somewhat off topic, but it is certainly dissapointing to spend $30 or more on a nicely detailed HO car and then discover that not only doesn't it roll very well, but also the couplers are too high and the coupler box is glued down so it is a major project to install a 'drop head' replacement coupler. At least the not rolling well problem has a fairly simple fix.
Hi!
Obviously its an excellent practice to screen and standardize your rolling stock before it hits the layout. Typically I do this "mass production" style, waiting until I get a handful of cars to review and do them all at the same time.
First its the obvious check list - make sure the car is in good shape and all parts are in place, the KDs are at the proper height, working, and the hose is not dragging, the car weight is reasonably in line with NMRA standards, and lastly the examination of the trucks and a "rollability" test.
Most of my trucks are Athearn or better. Frankly, with a little weathering, the Athearn trucks are pretty darn good. Next, I make sure the car has metal wheelsets - Intermountain being my preference. And then I check to assure the wheelsets spin freely in the trucks, and of course that they are in gauge.
When the car checks are completed, I place a 3 ft board mounted test track on the desk, raising one end about 3/4 or 7/8 of an inch high. Then I place each car in turn on the high end, and see how fast it rolls downhill - assuming it does of course.
On a good day, they all roll down at about the same speed. "Slackers" are quick to identify, and they get another go around on the truck check. Usually the problem is an axle touching the car body, or the axle is binding in the side frame. Micromart has a "truck reaming tool" that works wonders for this task.
With rare exceptions, the above results in a nice freewheeling layout friendly car. For those rare exceptions that just can't seem to be fixed - typically a "RTR" or early Ulrich or Silver Streak model - the trucks are just replaced (usually with a set of Athearns.
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
I'm going to try to keep this short.
I have done lots of testing to make cars more free rolling to improve pulling ability.
The final result, used on most of my freight cars is to install Kadee sprung metal trucks that have been refitted with Intermountain metal wheel sets.
Using a fixed ramp and a long length of runoff trackage, this wheel/truck cobination has proven itself more free rolling than any rigid frame plastic truck, with any brand of wheelset and with any amount of journal "turning" or other adjustments.
I have seen pulling ablitiy increases of 25% to 40% depending on the loco.
Also these improvements allow any number of cars to track well at slightly below NMRA recommended weights and still run well in long trains, 50 plus cars.
Sheldon
I am beginning to move the other way in trying to make some of my more free rolling cars a little less so!
YES - I can going against the norm!
But the problem is when I spot the car - it rolls back out on the main line.
I have to make every one of the Sidings dead flat - and this is impossible!
I have resorted to planting weeds along the rails in the sidings hoping the cars wheels will stop then they come in contact with them!
NOW - if I need more power to get my trains up my 2.5 to 3% grades - I do something strange - I add another Engine - New concept! ;-)
OR - I use the Pushers I have staged at the bottom of my grades I know I have problems with! Another strange concept!
BOB H - Clarion, PA
My method is relatively simple:
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
Bob's point about sometimes needing to make cars a bit less free rolling reminds me of the surprise many guys had when Lindberg first introduced its exceptionally free rolling trucks about 40 years or so years ago. Guys suddenly realized they had grades on their layout they never knew were there - more to the point, they sometimes found it impossible to spot a car because their sidings all had grades! In our cramped layouts -- even the biggest layout is in some ways cramped compared to the prototype -- we often do not have the space to level things out after a grade, such as from the main line down to a siding. So while free rolling trucks are a great advantage to the operation of moving trains sometimes you wish you could set the handbrakes in yards and sidings.
My point I suppose is that to some extent the compromises on your own layout might dictate or suggest just how free wheeling you want your trucks to be. Someone above posted about weight standards and that they do not follow the NMRA Recommended Practice. Whether you follow the RP or not, the most important thing is probably to be consistent with weighting standards and similarly I should think the most important thing is to be reasonable consistent with rollling standards.
BTW - Those free rolling Lindbergs (and the similar free rolling trucks that Athearn and Mantua and others introduced in the 1960s) had another unintended consequence -- they highlighted one of the real deficiencies of the X2F or "horn hook" coupler, that being the need to push the sprung coupler surface to the side when coupling up. It took a fair amount of force - more than was needed for the Baker or Mantua or Kadee coupler of the time. The old type Athearn or Varney or Mantua trucks did not budge but often the new trucks from Lindberg would make the car roll away rather than couple up unless you really slammed into it. There were plenty of guys who rejected the X2F/horn hook coupler right from the start but others were willing to give the thing a chance since so many had worked so hard at it -- but over time the problems just became too great and it never did become an NMRA standard. That said, the NMRA committee that created it always defended their work by pointing out that few if any of the manufacturers actually followed the NMRA committee specs. But I do wonder if they would have settled on the springing action they did if they had known that Lindberg trucks would hit the market in a few years.
But that is a topic for another day and another thread.
Dave Nelson