An interesting side note on the trees article in this issue is that Brooks Stover, the author of this article, is also an author of book on modeling trees, advertized in this very issue of Model Railroader! Obviously the staff at Model Railroader feels Mr. Stover is expert enough on the subject to warrant Kalmbach's publishing his book!
NP 2626 "Northern Pacific, really terrific"
Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association: http://www.nprha.org/
Rob,First that looks good..I like the way the road goes uphill and then curves down hill out of sight-its going some where.
Now with a long photo of the rolling hills of (say) Southern Oh with 3-5 rows of modeled trees in the foreground would capture the overall feeling of Southern Ohio..
Tom's good a excellent modeler that has inspired me in several ways.
See this topic on RR-L...
http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=33352
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
BRAKIE...blending modeled trees and photos of tree covered rolling hills together after all we are in the computer age. ...roads that continue for "miles" into the distance ...
How about this then:
No computer involved though. Note that I haven't painted or ballasted the track here. There was an article on blending roads into backdrops by Tom Johnson, I think in the October, 2010 issue of MR.
Rob Spangler
NP2626 Not upset, simply tired of reading critisism of the good work of others! Anyone can be a critic, it takes no skill what so ever!
Not upset, simply tired of reading critisism of the good work of others! Anyone can be a critic, it takes no skill what so ever!
That is true enough but,not everybody will agree and I just happen not to agree with cotton balls painted green with green ground foam sprinkle on passing as trees but,if a modeler is happy with such "trees" then so be it.
What would have impress me more instead of MR rehashing a 20 year old method would be a article on blending modeled trees and photos of tree covered rolling hills together after all we are in the computer age.
I'm highly impress with roads that continue for "miles" into the distance by blending in a photo of a road to a model road or a photo of a cornfield blended in with a modeled cornfield on the backdrop..One thing that wowed me was a ISL that had industrial photos blended in with the modeled structures.The layout was only 16" wide but,thanks to the photos it looked miles wide.
I fully believe the same can be done by blending tree filled hillside photos with model trees to make realistic looking forest that extends for "miles"..
BRAKIE You seem to be mighty upset and making a big to do out of nothing... Did you write that article? -------------------------------- Again,nothing you say will convince me balls or lumps of green cotton looks like a forest.
You seem to be mighty upset and making a big to do out of nothing...
Did you write that article?
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Again,nothing you say will convince me balls or lumps of green cotton looks like a forest.
It's also easy enough to find out who wrote the article and no, it was not me. However, I have written a few articles which have been published.
bogp40
Thank you for posting these photos. This is EXACTLY the look I'm after as I begin to forest my hills. Excellent job!
Modeling the Baltimore waterfront in HO scale
OdieThey might not resemble the forest near you, but they sure do resemble the mountainous areas near me.
Odie,I'm use to looking at the foot hills of the Appalachians in Southern Ohio and Northern Ky as well as the foot hills East of Mansfield and if I were to model a forest I would model those woods.
It may cost a small fortune but,I would use Woodland Scenics tree kits with lots of old growth trees since that's what I'm use to seeing...For the background forest I would try to blend in photos of the hills in Southern Ohio.
Has anybody tried that?
In your pic, they work rather well, regardless of the actual canopy itself. It's the same as to have a simple backdrop as not to detract from the impressive forground scene.
Yes i can find many spots here in New England that will have that same look, but mostly is a distant view of the tree covered hills. This is why many times I will air brush a light grey/ blue"fogging" to the painted backdrop the same distance perspective can be shown on the distant puffballs muting the brighter greens.
Another note: the coloring, shades of the greens will differ in varying types of lighting. I had sceniced one entire area of the layout under fluorecent lighting, once the hallogen track light were installed, the greens were so far off. I had to doctor up all the ground cover to gain the same look.
Modeling B&O- Chessie Bob K. www.ssmrc.org
Odie,If you're happy with your cotton ball trees..
Personally I don't like balls or lumps of cotton painted green with green ground foam sprinkled on but,to each his own...
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Bob,I fully agree the forest trees need to vary in height..It probably wouldn't hurt to have some fire breaks in modeled forest as well.
The discussion is getting away from being of any help here. I see both points about the appearance of the "puff balls", Yes, if they are too uniform in shape, size and color it won't represent a true forest canopy. This is not to say that the area modeled wouldn"t look this way, but as to using the trees as more of a backdrop to blend for distance, it can work. I find that using various shapes, sizes and colors will tend to have the scene more believable.
This spot sat for some time deciding on just how to finish the type of forest. Many club members worked on all types of trees and doing up trays of puff balls, long before actual planting.
The hillside has many puffballs placed throughout, but wanted to show a "mixed" forest especially where this is up close and @ or above eye level. Trees of stretched polyfiber as well as some forgroung production ones were planted to gain the effect we wanted.
If you end up w/ too uniform a look to the overall canopy, doctoring up some of the tops w/ dusted on varying colored foliage, fine grasses etc, even dust the tops to highlight w/ yellow spray paint to simulate sunlight. This and adding some forground trees, twigs for dead trees all will work to break it up and give a far better realistic look.
Now let's be nice!
tomikawaTT ... I wonder if Misonou-san has ever seen the flatlands where the Soo held sway.
... I wonder if Misonou-san has ever seen the flatlands where the Soo held sway.
I don't have the article with me, but I think he did mention visiting the U.S. area he had modeled.
I keep telling people...
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder..some like it, some do not.
This hobby is big enough for both sides of the strawman to exist....
Any argument carried far enough will end up in Semantics--Hartz's law of rhetoric Emerald. Leemer and Southern The route of the Sceptre Express Barry
I just started my blog site...more stuff to come...
http://modeltrainswithmusic.blogspot.ca/
Sorry, Larry, No, I don't follow you around and did not know you prefer layouts without trees, which of course would make you an expert on trees.
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Maybe just maybe living (10 years) and railroading(6 1/2 years) in the foot hills of the Appalachian Mountains (Southern Oh/Northern Ky area) disqualifies me from knowing what a forest should look like?
Surely you jest if you think that.
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Had any of you who find it so easy to be critical, ever written an article on anything what so ever, you might have a little more respect and admiration for all the hard work and effort that goes into doing so!
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No,I'm not a author nor do I wish to become one.
BRAKIE NP2626 Larry, put up or shut up, lets see photos of how wonderful your deciduous trees and rolling hills are! Not crabby! Just tired of a bunch of "whinny" malcontents! I believe those that know me on this and other forums know I prefer urban ISLs over any type of layout..I'm mildly surprise you don't know that. Now,I am neither whinny nor a malcontent and I fully believe those that knows me on this and other forums knows I speak my thoughts pro or con on the matter and the majority as accepted that.. Sorry,those puff ball trees look just like green balls and lumps of cotton just like they did in the 80s.. Nothing you can say will change my views of puff ball trees..
NP2626 Larry, put up or shut up, lets see photos of how wonderful your deciduous trees and rolling hills are! Not crabby! Just tired of a bunch of "whinny" malcontents!
Larry, put up or shut up, lets see photos of how wonderful your deciduous trees and rolling hills are!
Not crabby! Just tired of a bunch of "whinny" malcontents!
I believe those that know me on this and other forums know I prefer urban ISLs over any type of layout..I'm mildly surprise you don't know that.
Now,I am neither whinny nor a malcontent and I fully believe those that knows me on this and other forums knows I speak my thoughts pro or con on the matter and the majority as accepted that..
Sorry,those puff ball trees look just like green balls and lumps of cotton just like they did in the 80s..
Nothing you can say will change my views of puff ball trees..
I would guess your seeing that I tend to tell it like it is, also.
Industrial Switching Layout.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
What is an ISL?
This hobby is big enough to allow some to have more realistic trees and others not so real.
I did not read Larry's posts as particularly 'whiney'...
BTW...I did enjoy the tree article for what it was...if some think the trees looked a little puffball like ...big whoop.
sheeesh.
NP2626 My vote is that it is very well done and I'm pretty sure I have a better than average eye for how well these types of scenes look. Of course if you've never seen rolling hills covered in deciduous forest, maybe you aught to keep your mouth shut!
My vote is that it is very well done and I'm pretty sure I have a better than average eye for how well these types of scenes look. Of course if you've never seen rolling hills covered in deciduous forest, maybe you aught to keep your mouth shut!
I lived in the Southern Ohio and Northern Ky area for 10 years and not once did I seen a Forrest looking like a bunched up pile of green cotton balls..
..and you don't have to be so crabby about it.
Some of you are saying, the large photo on page 37 of the article on How to make TREE COVERED HILLS, doesn't look realistic? Well, then you guys are just going to have to show us how it's done!
Jumijo While I enjoyed the issue on the whole, I was disappointed with the tree making article. The puff ball trees didn't look realistic to me in the least, and the techniques displayed were nothing new.
While I enjoyed the issue on the whole, I was disappointed with the tree making article. The puff ball trees didn't look realistic to me in the least, and the techniques displayed were nothing new.
I've seen hillsides from I-24 in Tennessee that looked remarkably similar to the modelwork. If I had deciduous forests I'd vary the tree shapes (they don't all have to look like tennis balls.) Unfortunately, the predominant tree in my prototype area is the cedar...
Tony Koester's article was also a disappointment. Usually I like to read his musings, but this time, not so much.
For me, Tony's article brought back memories of the long, layout-free tour to SEA during which I designed a 1/3 scale locomotive cab with which to operate a 1:80 scale steamer. Among the features were counters to track fuel and water status. When I returned to the US I found myself in on-base quarters that were a spandex fit for myself, my wife and two adolescents. I didn't have space enough to build that model cab, never mind a layout to run a locomotive on.
As for the November MR, the N scale contingent should be happy with it. How-to articles, plus a nice layout.
The Soo Line in Tokyo was (in track plan, at least) a typical Japanese track plan - two mainline loops (without a passing siding on either one) and big yards. Online switching, hidden staging representing the rest of North America, even minimal engine servicing facilities are all either given lip service or are totally absent. Speaking as a prototype modeler, it takes more than rolliing stock and building names to model a prototype. Where's the typical Midwestern town (feed mill, grain elevator, Co-Op store, etc)? On the end of a long switchback siding! Not to mention that the countryside is a lot more like N&W in West Virginia than like the Soo anywhere.
Of course I had the advantage of actually visiting Kiso country. I wonder if Misonou-san has ever seen the flatlands where the Soo held sway.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
Have you ever thought about the fact that if you got your start in the hobby before the internet, you likely paid for most of the information on how to do the hobby, that you got? You paid for it by subscribing to; or, purchasing the various hobby magazines. If you were lucky enough to belong to a club that had some experts; or, happened upon a mentor that was an expert themselves, you may have received large amounts of information from them "free gratis". For myself, living in a rural part of the state I live in, The information I learned was all gleaned from the magazines and books I purchased.
Now you can come here; or, the other hobby forums/websites and get most of the information that I had to pay for, for free!
Does it seem understandable to you that it is difficult to be in the printed information business now-a- days? Baseball players don't hit homers every at bat. Why would you believe a magazine should be able to hit a homer every time?
There is always something of interest in each issue,and I look forward to each. Some might be awesome,and some with little to offer,but it all evens out. As far as the puffball forest ,they just did puffballs in the Virginian series this spring,which I thought was better done than this last article.
Philip
I feel the puff ball trees idea/method is sound providing people aren't looking for a forest of 'ball's. Trees just don't look like that, except to an extent from a great distance, and by then so much detail is lost.
I have come to the conclusion that there is no cheap/easy way to forest a hillside in our hobby. It will take time, materials, and patience to get the non-uniform look that comes from different trees of varying types at various ages, including many obviously dead or diseased ones. If you don't purchase the materials, and that can be for basics or completed trees, big bucks, you must gather them yourself.
This is never going to be achieved by throwing a cammo-type blanket over a framework, tucking in some corners and then enjoying a superb result. Or spraying some foam balls, dusting them with a couple of kinds of ground foam/flocking, and expecting it to pass the sniff test.
I'd say the definitieve tree articles were already published. back in the 50's and 60's, by such authors as Jack Work. Even back then there were already articles using ground foam instead of lichen or even dyed sawdust.
I'd like to add to my previous remarks that the layout that featured the puffball trees was very nice. My disappointment is based on the billing that article got in the monthly preview, and by being the cover story. I was led to believe that the article would break some new ground, show some new techniques for making realistic trees.That wasn't the case. Perhaps puffball trees would look more realistic if they weren't so uniform. By varying the size and shapes as well as the colors, more realism might have been achieved.
Still waiting for that definitive tree making article. Especially one on making realistic conifer trees. There are many outstanding logging model railroads out there. I'd love to read how some of those modelers made their trees.
Interesting how people form different parts of the country view things like puffball trees. In a couple of weeks, we should have some good fall color, and I cna take a ride up to the mountains, and until I actually get in the hills, ie, the whole while I am approaching the mountain, it loks EXACTLY like a bunch of multi-colored lichen spread across the hillside. There's not an individual trunk to be seen, just occasional breaks for pwoer lines, and stands of evergreens in amongst the deciduous trees. I fins the puffball style exactly replciates what I see with my own eyes in the Applachian around my area. Making hundres if not thousands of trees with individual trunks and branches borders on the impossible, and I don't see it yielding much better results once planted all together surrounded by others. Along the edges, and along any breaks in the forest cover - absolutely. Even driving right through the forest, you cna only see so far into it before the trunks all blur together.
The puff ball trees didn't look realistic to me in the least, and the techniques displayed were nothing new.
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Those "Cotton ball" trees dates back to the 80s and IMHO they're one step above the old train set "lollipop trees" of the 50/60s.