I have an old Tyco caboose. You, know, the old plastic toy/train set cabooses from back in the 70's and 80's. This caboose, with it's window configuration and the tapered cupola, comes close to the Pennsylvania class N8 cabooses. Well, I want to "make" this caboose a class N8 by doing the proper modifications. Part of this modification is moving the cupola to the middle instead of offset, as it is now. I have two questions about this modification.
1. In doing the cutting necessary to move the cupola, the splicing will leave gaps in the roof where the cuts and splices are. There is also a window that will have to be covered over as well, using a piece of sheet styrene for that. What is the best filler to use in these gaps and splices that can be sanded smooth?
2. I plan on repainting the shell. I have had it soaking in 92% isopropyl alcohol for about 3 days now and, although some of the paint has come off, most of still stays intack as of this writing. Is there something else that I might use that will more easily remove the paint?
Any answers will be appreciated.
I'm afraid that I can't give you any answers. However, you are aware that Bowser makes a kit for a N8 caboose that is pretty nice? I see that the list price for the kit is now about $30, but I remember paying a lot less when they first came out. With a little looking around you can probably do a lot better, pricewise.
I don't want to discourage you from the kitbashing attempt, but my opinion is that if something is available sometimes it is better to get that so that I can use my time and energy elsewhere.
Of course, that's only one opinion.
Well, yes, maxman, I've seen the model and thanks for the advice. However, me, pack rat that I am, want to make this a fairly highly detailed replica of the prototype, perhaps even with removable roof with detailed interior. Also, even with brass handrails and all the details, I probably won't have over $20 in the project. Further, this will not be in PRR livery, but in the freelanced livery of my railroad (nee PRR). I would hate to trash the fine paint job that Bowser applies to their models.Finally, I just LOVE kitbashing and scratchbuilding, as I have also done with many of my structures.
E-L man tom 1. In doing the cutting necessary to move the cupola, the splicing will leave gaps in the roof where the cuts and splices are. There is also a window that will have to be covered over as well, using a piece of sheet styrene for that. What is the best filler to use in these gaps and splices that can be sanded smooth?
Gaps? What gaps? Make your cuts with as fine tooth a saw as you have. A back saw running in a miter box or very carefully mark the carbody to guide a coping saw. When cut, glue a piece of 150 grit sandpaper down on something flat (MDF or glass or whatever). Hold the cut end of the carbody at right angles to the sandpaper and rub it back and forth til all the saw marks are gone. Repeat on all cut edges. Then move down to 220 grit sandpaper. Might be worth making some kinda jig to hold the carbody straight up and down while sanding.
The sanded edges will come out flat and square and the glue line where you join them should be fine enough for a coat of paint to hide it.
E-L man tom 2. I plan on repainting the shell. I have had it soaking in 92% isopropyl alcohol for about 3 days now and, although some of the paint has come off, most of still stays intack as of this writing. Is there something else that I might use that will more easily remove the paint? Any answers will be appreciated.
Try scrubbing with a toothbrush. Three days ought loosen anything. If that doesn't do it, try again with a brand new bottle of alcohol. Alcohol loves water, it will grab water out of the air. A bottle that is marked 92% may be a good deal less after a year or two of kicking around your shop or bathroom and absorbing moisture from the air. Or try Pinesol. Or try Easy-Off. Dunno about brake fluid, I've never used it myself, and people tell me it will make the plastic brittle.
David Starr www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com
E-L man tom Well, yes, maxman, I've seen the model and thanks for the advice. However, me, pack rat that I am, want to make this a fairly highly detailed replica of the prototype, perhaps even with removable roof with detailed interior. Also, even with brass handrails and all the details, I probably won't have over $20 in the project. Further, this will not be in PRR livery, but in the freelanced livery of my railroad (nee PRR). I would hate to trash the fine paint job that Bowser applies to their models.Finally, I just LOVE kitbashing and scratchbuilding, as I have also done with many of my structures.
Yes, I understand. Wasn't really trying to give you "advice" as much as an alternative. I have two of the Bowser N8s in various states of stripped paint, because I wanted to paint them something else. I really didn't care about Bowser's paint job. I'm sure you already know, but the roof and the cupola are a separate one-piece assembly in the kit that I suppose could be made removeable. The kit handrails are separate parts. The roof walk parts are separate pieces, not molded on.
I also like, to some degree, to have detailed rolling stock. But I consider my time valuable and don't like to bother bashing something if the final result isn't going to look better than what I can buy. In the case of the Tyco caboose, it appears that the cupola position is only a portion of the work involved. You still have to deal with the molded on roofwalk, scrape off the molded on handrails, and move that window you mentioned. Almost sounds as though the best way to proceed would be to cut off the cupola and mate it to a new roof and body sides you scratchbuild yourself.
But again, that's all my opinion. When you get the model completed, I'd very much like to see a photo of it. Good luck.
Regards
There was a great Railroad Model Craftsman article (Feb. 1970) on the Tyco to Pennsy conversion (I think MR might have published one as well). the RMC author also showed how to take the cupola from the Tyco model and graft it on to a MDC caboose body, modify the windows and come up with still other PRR options but that is OT to the N8 discussion
This guy has taken the article and his own refinements and shows how it is done:
http://www.the-gauge.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=2491
Dave Nelson
Thanks, Dave for the valuable information that further affirms what I will attempt or have already done (such as lengthening the small window on the one end of each side). I have, however already removed the molded on side grabs and will add wire grabs in place of them, as it appears the model that appears on that post still has the molded on grabs. I believe the two beams at the center of each end will be the challenge to replicate. Maybe Plastruct shapes?
Maxman, I am doing this project not only because it will be a fun one but I also want to hone my skills at this kind of thing. Can you believe that, even though I have many craftsman freight car kits, I have yet to build a one of them to date! This kind of "practice" will make craftsman kits a breeze. I have been spending my time building structures (the majority of which are scratchbuilt), so I thought I'd get my feet wet working on a kitbash rolling stock project or two. I do, respectfully appreciate your comments and they are welcome in the future as well.
Here's a picture of a "sorta" starting point on the Tyco caboose, with the molded on grabs and roofwalks taken off.
Here's a picture of a "sorta" starting point on the Tyco caboose, with the molded on grabs and roofwalks taken off. This is my first attempt at posting a picture on this forum so I don't know how it will turn out. Here goes!
Sorry about the duplication!
E-L man tom Here's a picture of a "sorta" starting point on the Tyco caboose, with the molded on grabs and roofwalks taken off.
Hmm. to get the cupola in the center, you have to cut a slice out of the long end, a slice that takes out all or most of the middle windows, and insert the slice in the short end. That window will make the bottoms of the sides fall clean off as you cut, so your slice is not a full slice of carbody, but some roof and a couple of separate side pieces.
It might be worth it to beef up the slice by glueing solid pieces of styrene sheet to the inside of the carbody, filling in the middle window completely BEFORE cutting. This will keep the slice altogether after the cut.
Or, somehow just cut the cupola loose from the roof, fill the hole left in the roof by laminating a thin piece of styrene sheet to the whole roof, and then glue the cupola down on the new roof.
Having done a couple of caboose conversions, though not of this prototype, this is how I would proceed:
Don't cut into the sides of the car, instead remove the cupola at the roof line. (And this is the part that takes some thinking and some measurement.)
1) Cut a slit in the roof of the caboose across the top, at the exact point where the leading edge of the cupola would go when centered on the caboose. Note that this cut will not be at the front of where the cupola sets now, but at some point forward of the front.
2) Cut the other side of the roof at the opposite end of the cupola where it meets the roof. Making a straight cut across the roof, not following the lines where the cupola and roof intersect since it is not a straight line.
3) Cut the cupola and the part of the roof free along the top of the side walls where the roof overhang meets the wall.
4) Rotate the cupola/roof section 180 degrees, and it should drop into position with only a minimal gap, and the cupola exactly where you want it.
I have figured out what is wrong with my brain! On the left side nothing works right, and on the right side there is nothing left!
If you want a fine cut line invest in a jewelers saw at one of your local Hobby Lobby or from the Micro Mark catalog. Best item I ever bought for modeling, just make sure you get extra blades, you can make it cut on the pull stroke or the push stroke. It has to many uses to list. Jim.
E-L man tom Thanks, Dave for the valuable information that further affirms what I will attempt or have already done (such as lengthening the small window on the one end of each side).
Thanks, Dave for the valuable information that further affirms what I will attempt or have already done (such as lengthening the small window on the one end of each side).
Stop the presses! The article I was thinking about is actually in the April 1982 Model Railroader by James McHenry and has very clear drawings and instructions about where and how to cut into the Tyco caboose. And it is McHenry that shows both an N8 conversion and also an N5C. Admittedly Bowser has some wonderful PRR cabooses -- I am sorry, "cabin cars" -- but this McHenry guy was and hopefully still is quite a skilled kitbasher.
The earlier article in Feb 1970 RMC is by Ronald Morris. He also did a nice job (and both articles have useful prototype photos) but the 1982 article has drawings with precise cut lines for the Tyco model. I checked my project box and I set aside a half dozen Tyco cabooses for the project, on the assumption that i would botch a few before I got it right!
Well, Dan, and Jim, my plan is to totally remove the roof of this car as there are several advantages to doing this.
1. I can make a very precision straight cut with a mitre box when I have the roof sitting on a flat surface and,
2. It allows me to detail the interior, if desired, which I am leaning toward doing. There is a definite "cut line" where the roof meets the walls and I have already started the cut by having made several cuts with a hobby knife blade along this line.
My problem right now is getting the old paint off the shell. I have soaked it in 92% isopropyl alcohol for about 4 days with only partial success. I have painted on some Pine Sol (as the use of Pine Sol has been suggested in this thread) and took an old tooth brush to it. That removed additional paint but not all of it. I will try again with the Pine Sol. It could take a while to remove all of the paint.
Meanwhile, I will gather the wire goods needed to construct the end hand rails and the roof grabs. I already have comnmercially made curved side grabs for this project.
Thanks all, for your comments and advice.
E-L man tom My problem right now is getting the old paint off the shell. I have soaked it in 92% isopropyl alcohol for about 4 days with only partial success. I have painted on some Pine Sol (as the use of Pine Sol has been suggested in this thread) and took an old tooth brush to it. That removed additional paint but not all of it. I will try again with the Pine Sol. It could take a while to remove all of the paint.
When I used Pinesol, I immersed the entire carbody in the stuff (full strength) over night. Then all the paint came off with a little toothbrush work. It was a low end train set car, probably Tyco.
Your plan of cutting off the entire roof sounds quite workable.
dstarr Try scrubbing with a toothbrush. Three days ought loosen anything. If that doesn't do it, try again with a brand new bottle of alcohol. Alcohol loves water, it will grab water out of the air. A bottle that is marked 92% may be a good deal less after a year or two of kicking around your shop or bathroom and absorbing moisture from the air. Or try Pinesol. Or try Easy-Off. Dunno about brake fluid, I've never used it myself, and people tell me it will make the plastic brittle.
I've used brake fluid (DOT-3 ONLY!) to strip paint many times. It only takes an hour or so to work, and the only plastic that I've heard of that it damages is the plastic used in Kato models. I don't have any, so I can't comment from my own experience. It washes off with soap and water (I use Dawn) and a soft brush. Isopropyl alcohol is very slow working. I've had to leave stuff soaking for days to get the paint loosened. I've not had any luck with Easy-Off, haven't tried Pinesol.
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Gary M. Collins gmcrailgNOSPAM@gmail.com
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"Common Sense, Ain't!" -- G. M. Collins
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