DigitalGriffin Bachmann purchased the factory well over 2 years ago. But don't blame Bachmann for the shortage. You don't buy a large factory and then idle a very large percentage of it. That cost you way too much money. I heard what the real problem is, and it's not really Bachmann's fault. I would say more, but it's 2nd hand hearsay from an insider and that would irresponsible for me to repeat it as it could affect the company's business.
Bachmann purchased the factory well over 2 years ago.
But don't blame Bachmann for the shortage. You don't buy a large factory and then idle a very large percentage of it. That cost you way too much money.
I heard what the real problem is, and it's not really Bachmann's fault. I would say more, but it's 2nd hand hearsay from an insider and that would irresponsible for me to repeat it as it could affect the company's business.
Oh, nice DG. Just leave us hanging. LOL
Alton Junction
There you go...
This proves how important that the US has become to other countries in the world...
We go down, and the others will follow...
This also proves that making, say, a brass 2-8-8-4 yellowstone decorated for the DM&IR with sound, is much harder than making, say, a Nintendo 3DS (which is still hard to do)...
Yet, it also proves that the dealers are merely taking the brunt of our anger, not the manufacturers, who don't need it as well...
The Lehigh Valley Railroad, the Route of the Black Diamond Express, John Wilkes and Maple Leaf.
-Jake, modeling the Barclay, Towanda & Susquehanna.
IRONROOSTERI'm glad that I have enough stuff to keep me going for years.
I feel the same way. I think my locomotive fleet is as big as it's ever going to get.
Yes Rich, We the USA, have taught these manufactures how to design and build by out sourcing to them. It seems like everyone wants cheap prices. Being a retired Union Man who was paid a fair wage to support my family for forty two years I appreciate well made goods and I also want it made in the good ol USA or Canada and probably the UK. That is the way it was along time past. If we keep going our population won't know how to manufacture let alone design anything. I'll pay more for good quality American manufactured goods. I remember when my folks sent a Frigidare to the junk heap to be dismantled for parts and metal after it had served its purpose for over 40 years. That is what we in America used to build and can again if we get with it. We, the USA can do this if we get serious about what is going on. We don't need anymore trade imbalance with china. We just don't!!!! Doug
richhotrain galaxy: If you don't like Bachmann, then you may be stuck. Maybe you shoud try a Bachmann? Maybe "try a Bachmann, Buy a Bachmann" will work too! Sheldon?
galaxy: If you don't like Bachmann, then you may be stuck. Maybe you shoud try a Bachmann? Maybe "try a Bachmann, Buy a Bachmann" will work too!
If you don't like Bachmann, then you may be stuck. Maybe you shoud try a Bachmann?
Maybe "try a Bachmann, Buy a Bachmann" will work too!
Sheldon?
I feel like doing a "Buy a Bachmann, chuck a Bachmann", despite having a 44-tonner from them.
Hmmm. I just finished reading a bunch of deleted posts, one of which was very informative, a couple were a little silly and the rest were rather innocuous. I saw nothing inflammatory or especially controversial, so I'm wondering why they were thought to be veering toward a "political" discussion. As a moderator on another forum, I have no issues with the moderators here doing their job, but the preemptive strike seemed to suppose a lack of self-control among the Members engaged in this discussion. In my opinion, it would have been preferable (although not my choice) to leave the one informative post, then lock the thread. That information, along with the information in the original post, explained much of the problems occurring within the industry. Whether or not we agree on a solution, we at least no longer need to speculate on the problem as it applies to our very narrow interests
Wayne.
Jason from Rapido made what, imho, was an outstanding post that hit on target. I was looking for it and wondered what happened. It was not controversial nor inappropriate, but well thought out and professional. Very disappointed to see it zapped.
"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"
Jason (Rapido) and Blain (Exactrail) explained the situation in detail when I interviewed them for podcasts several months ago. They are fortunate in that their production is with suppliers other than the one which impacted Athearn RTR, Atlas, etc. Their's is also more of a partnership than a mere customer relationship.
Listen to Jason's answers to my queries about bringing the manufacturing back to North America. While there is truth in a previous post about the who and what drove the manufacturing overseas, we consumers also played a large part in our pursuit of lower retail prices.
None of these influences are bad in and of themselves; they just had unintended consequences.
AntonioFP45 Jason from Rapido made what, imho, was an outstanding post that hit on target. I was looking for it and wondered what happened. It was not controversial nor inappropriate, but well thought out and professional. Very disappointed to see it zapped.
I agree. I find it disappointing that it was somehow found necessary to delete that post. It directly answers and addresses questions/speculations.
A manufacturer provided insight into the issues that has many of us concerned and instead of allowing it to remain it was decided that modelers are "best left in the dark", deleting the post and paving the way for more speculation, conspiracy theories and baseless insinuations.
Although a small issue on the radar, I urge Rapido to continue participating with the end users and occasionally providing continued insight into how the business works.
I'd like to say more but I'd hate to provide another reason to have additional posts removed (I probably said to much already)
~Kyle
The Mary Lindsay Railroad - Featuring Amtrak Model Trains Your HO Rail Journey Starts Here.........
www.marylindsayrr.vze.com (Last Update: 5/31/12)
Hey, what's going on here?????
The post from Rapido (Jason) was probably one of the most valuable and truly informative posts I've seen on the subject. And now it - and several responses referencing it - are gone (including mine).
I've been on this forum for a long, long time, and this is the first time I feel the "deleters" jumped the gun.
Neither the subject nor the responses were - imho - out of line, and in fact were more productive than not.
If there was a problem in the eyes of those with the forum power, then explain it to us and lock the thread.
Deleting posts is just downright wrong!
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
I am sorry I missed Jason's post. In the past he has answered questions that have quelled the rants of the "emotionally uninformed" as I like to call them. He is very professional and comes across to me as a person of good character. Maybe he could post his comments on the Rapido Website for us to read.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
Having worked in model train manufacturing here in America, I can say with very good authority that making a new model train locomotive here, with new tooling, from the ground up, and assembling it here with American labor, would actually result in the retail price being at least 3 times as high as it is now with Chinese produced goods. That means the actual street selling price would be at least 3 times higher than it is now.
So, how many of you are really willing to spend that much for 100% American made product?
I seriously doubt it would be enough to make such a project worthwhile.
Jason's post made me think about River Station Products, which was having the New Haven Pullman Standard stainless steel cars produced. I'm now assuming that the issues overseas may have affected RSP's production schedules as well.
If what the other posters are saying about Jason's post is true, then that is a pretty low blow by the mods on here. I am very disappointed MR staff has decided what is fit for my eyes and what isn't in this case. I really would like to know what part of the TOS Jason's post violated.
Odie If what the other posters are saying about Jason's post is true, then that is a pretty low blow by the mods on here. I am very disappointed MR staff has decided what is fit for my eyes and what isn't in this case. I really would like to know what part of the TOS Jason's post violated.
I agree here. If Jason Shrons post was removed, it seems there was some sort of draconian soviet/peoples republic of china style censoring going on here. Jason has always posted consistant with most of the industry information. For shame MR/moderator(s)!?
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
UP 4-12-2 Having worked in model train manufacturing here in America, I can say with very good authority that making a new model train locomotive here, with new tooling, from the ground up, and assembling it here with American labor, would actually result in the retail price being at least 3 times as high as it is now with Chinese produced goods. That means the actual street selling price would be at least 3 times higher than it is now. So, how many of you are really willing to spend that much for 100% American made product? I seriously doubt it would be enough to make such a project worthwhile.
What seems to have been forgotten here is that the original purpose of this thread was to address the issue of availability of product, or lack thereof, not the issue of cost.
Everyone should go back and re-read the OP's initial post.
You cannot spend money, no matter how much or how little, if product is not available.
Rich
richhotrain What seems to have been forgotten here is that the original purpose of this thread was to address the issue of availability of product, or lack thereof, not the issue of cost. Everyone should go back and re-read the OP's initial post. You cannot spend money, no matter how much or how little, if product is not available. Rich
True, but it is still no small matter that "if" you made the product available by making it in the US, and it cost 3x as much as UP4-12-2 asserts, that wouldn't do much good to the average modeler, who is already struggling to buy products at the "new" higher prices that we have been seeing in the past 12 months. So having a product available and unaffordable ain't much good to most of us is it?
So I can understand why many manufacturers just don't want to "go down that road" because they are probably assuming if they could capitalize a project made in the US, would they lose their shirts because the items would be priced out of the range of most customers, and not sell. This is obviously a huge consideration. Sure, it would be nice to employ Americans, but would it be sustainable? in many cases those folks would be back out of work after the product is produced and fails to be a sales performer due to excessive MSRP price, and eventually has to be dumped on the market at a huge loss, and the folks who made it back in the unemployment line, the investors haviing lost hundreds of thousands in the experiment gone wrong. But its the job of all companies to do a feasibility study and a business plan that has a chance of succeeding, isn't it?
riogrande5761 So having a product available and unaffordable ain't much good to most of us is it?
So having a product available and unaffordable ain't much good to most of us is it?
No, it isn't much good if the product is available but unaffordable.
But, what is worse, in my view, is having a product that is affordable but unavailable.
At least if the product is available, I have a choice to buy it or not.
If it is unavailable, I have no choice.
We need a lot of Moms and Pops with all the money they saved and invested over the years to start producing train stuff to satisfy out lust for more than we really need. Of course, no other hobby is included.
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
ksax73 AntonioFP45: Jason from Rapido made what, imho, was an outstanding post that hit on target. I was looking for it and wondered what happened. It was not controversial nor inappropriate, but well thought out and professional. Very disappointed to see it zapped. I agree. I find it disappointing that it was somehow found necessary to delete that post. It directly answers and addresses questions/speculations. A manufacturer provided insight into the issues that has many of us concerned and instead of allowing it to remain it was decided that modelers are "best left in the dark", deleting the post and paving the way for more speculation, conspiracy theories and baseless insinuations. Although a small issue on the radar, I urge Rapido to continue participating with the end users and occasionally providing continued insight into how the business works. I'd like to say more but I'd hate to provide another reason to have additional posts removed (I probably said to much already)
AntonioFP45: Jason from Rapido made what, imho, was an outstanding post that hit on target. I was looking for it and wondered what happened. It was not controversial nor inappropriate, but well thought out and professional. Very disappointed to see it zapped.
To be frank I think one or more of the mods is a tad to quick on the trigger to delete or lock a topic.
As a moderator on three forums I find where there is no rule infraction there is no violation and there is a gray area that must be considered before taking action..
But,maybe the powers that be at MR order the posts removed or removed the posts in question in themselves or perhaps removed them due to complaints from other manufacturers or forum members..I dunno.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
I find it interesting that the mods were watching this thread close enough to censor a boatload of posts today but now they are nowhere to be found when asked about the reasoning behind it. I'm not so sure about this place any more.
I re read the original post. It sounds like capitalism at it's best. Here in the states the government and others would be screaming about a monopoly. In China it is probably way down the list of priorities. Fact is Bachmann wants to sell trains. They want to sell more trains than their competitors. So they buy the factory and shut their competition out. They sell more trains! Now the other companies are going holy crap what now. Bachmann sells more trains because they have them. Other companies are now forced to find a manufacturer and quickly. People wanting special model trains are going when am I going to get one? Maybe never! For some businesses it may be the end of the line. If they do not have the time and resources to find someone to make their goods they are sunk. Mean while at Bachmann they sell more trains! People like Rapido and Exactrail will always find someone to make their goods if they survive. It's kind of like Ferrari. They may only sell a few hundred a year but someone is always willing to pay for it. Mean while back at Bachmann, they sell more trains. Where it is going to hurt is the mid level companies.
RMax
Odie I find it interesting that the mods were watching this thread close enough to censor a boatload of posts today but now they are nowhere to be found when asked about the reasoning behind it. I'm not so sure about this place any more.
Well, in all fairness, it is their show. I do think, though, that the most informative of the removed posts dispelled a lot of misinformation that's been floating around here and other model railroading forums for a while. Each of us is, of course, free to interpret it in our own way (well, we could have been ). I think that there's much more fodder for disagreements and arguement when we have only hearsay and speculation with which to work - that post, in my opinion, would have dispelled much of the supposition and its associated ills.
Wayne
mobilman44 Hey, what's going on here????? The post from Rapido (Jason) was probably one of the most valuable and truly informative posts I've seen on the subject. And now it - and several responses referencing it - are gone (including mine). I've been on this forum for a long, long time, and this is the first time I feel the "deleters" jumped the gun. Neither the subject nor the responses were - imho - out of line, and in fact were more productive than not. If there was a problem in the eyes of those with the forum power, then explain it to us and lock the thread. Deleting posts is just downright wrong!
I have to agree. Though I have been on this forum for a MUCH shorter time, I don't know what was so wrong about what was posted. It was people just making points about how overseas production and economics are related, and I think there are actually worse things out there that are being overlooked than what we had going.
While deleting posts may help keep someone from needing a box of , they should really consider how much harm the post would actually be doing instead of just deleting some posts. Also, they should see how others are taking them, to see if there is any need to delete the posts. If there is, just start a conversation with those that were a part of the thread, let them know, and lock the thread. If someone still has a problem, only then can they delete them.
I hope that there are several of you out there who would agree with me, opinions are welcome.
doctorwayne Hmmm. I just finished reading a bunch of deleted posts, one of which was very informative, a couple were a little silly and the rest were rather innocuous. Wayne.
Hmmm. I just finished reading a bunch of deleted posts, one of which was very informative, a couple were a little silly and the rest were rather innocuous. Wayne.
Wayne, my post was one of those deleted - - - it was a reply to Jason's post.
Since my posts are never informative, LOL, I was just curious if mine was a little silly or rather innocuous?
Lehigh Valley 2089 Neither the subject nor the responses were - imho - out of line, and in fact were more productive than not. (mobileman44) I have to agree. It was people just making points about how overseas production and economics are related........... I hope that there are several of you out there who would agree with me, opinions are welcome.
Neither the subject nor the responses were - imho - out of line, and in fact were more productive than not. (mobileman44)
I have to agree. It was people just making points about how overseas production and economics are related...........
I can't speak to the deleted posts by the manufacturers/importers as I don't totally remember them. But there was one extensive post by an individual that I found extremely annoying. I totally abhor any post that detours off into political, and sometimes off-topic, commentary. If someone complained, and it wasn't me, I'm glad that particular post was deleted.
riogrande5761 Odie: If what the other posters are saying about Jason's post is true, then that is a pretty low blow by the mods on here. I am very disappointed MR staff has decided what is fit for my eyes and what isn't in this case. I really would like to know what part of the TOS Jason's post violated. I agree here. If Jason Shrons post was removed, it seems there was some sort of draconian soviet/peoples republic of china style censoring going on here. Jason has always posted consistant with most of the industry information. For shame MR/moderator(s)!?
Odie: If what the other posters are saying about Jason's post is true, then that is a pretty low blow by the mods on here. I am very disappointed MR staff has decided what is fit for my eyes and what isn't in this case. I really would like to know what part of the TOS Jason's post violated.
Ummmmm...what did happen to this thread? Jason's informative post-Gone, a bunch of other posts from various others referring to it-Gone, including a few of my own things, plus that of Nittany Lions....
Not sure what that is all about...
Any argument carried far enough will end up in Semantics--Hartz's law of rhetoric Emerald. Leemer and Southern The route of the Sceptre Express Barry
I just started my blog site...more stuff to come...
http://modeltrainswithmusic.blogspot.ca/
Yeah, geee, I think one or two of my posts in here were deleted..usually I get a message as to why but not this time...all I said was..oh never mind, It will get deleted again!!!
I only said this thread was going to BE one of those "no-no's"!!!
They have the right, but sometimes the "free exchange of thoughts and ideas" gets squashed! Censorship lives on!
-G .
Just my thoughts, ideas, opinions and experiences. Others may vary.
HO and N Scale.
After long and careful thought, they have convinced me. I have come to the conclusion that they are right. The aliens did it.
Meanwhile, not a peep from the mods yet. What gives MR???
blownout cylinder riogrande5761: Odie: If what the other posters are saying about Jason's post is true, then that is a pretty low blow by the mods on here. I am very disappointed MR staff has decided what is fit for my eyes and what isn't in this case. I really would like to know what part of the TOS Jason's post violated. I agree here. If Jason Shrons post was removed, it seems there was some sort of draconian soviet/peoples republic of china style censoring going on here. Jason has always posted consistant with most of the industry information. For shame MR/moderator(s)!? Ummmmm...what did happen to this thread? Jason's informative post-Gone, a bunch of other posts from various others referring to it-Gone, including a few of my own things, plus that of Nittany Lions.... Not sure what that is all about...
riogrande5761: Odie: If what the other posters are saying about Jason's post is true, then that is a pretty low blow by the mods on here. I am very disappointed MR staff has decided what is fit for my eyes and what isn't in this case. I really would like to know what part of the TOS Jason's post violated. I agree here. If Jason Shrons post was removed, it seems there was some sort of draconian soviet/peoples republic of china style censoring going on here. Jason has always posted consistant with most of the industry information. For shame MR/moderator(s)!?
Yeah, I thought it was kinda odd. I tried to be very non-political and mainly "business, nothing personal" about things.