Wasn't this thread just locked? Last time I checked it was.
Samuel A. Kelly
I can draw pictures with my keyboard!
-------- ( It's a worm)
hminky Capitalism at work, the guys who own Bachmann suck everyone into their production facility.Then tell the competitors to find somewhere else to make their competitive product.Ahh, capitalism, Darwinism at it's best. Survival of the fittest.Harold
Capitalism at work, the guys who own Bachmann suck everyone into their production facility.Then tell the competitors to find somewhere else to make their competitive product.Ahh, capitalism, Darwinism at it's best. Survival of the fittest.Harold
The guys who own Bachmann make products for a worldwide market, not just North America. They own the Liliput, Aristo-Craft, Bachmann Branchlines (UK 00 scale), Graham Farish (UK N scale) and several other lines including Woodland Scenics. http://www.bachmann.co.uk/avail.php. It's no wonder they bought the factory. Given the incredible variety of products they produce like this little gem, http://www.bachmann.co.uk/details.php?id=38&vis=2 , the prototype of which exists in working condition at the Bluebell Railway. I actually saw the prototype in service last month. Got pictures. Bachmann also just recently handed over a substantial donation to the Bluebell for the renovation of the Sheffield Park station. http://www.bachmann.co.uk/details.php?id=44&vis=2 . Bachmann actually supplies models of several of the buildings at Sheffield Park.
No other manufacturer that I know of caters to a considerable portion of the world's model railway enthusiasts the way Bachmann does. None. I can understand why they bought the factory. It wasn't to cut others out, but to make sure Bachmann had sufficient capacity to supply all the markets they're in. Ford doesn't make Chevies for GM, so why should Bachmann make Athearn products for Horizon? It's not Bachmann's fault that other manufacturers are so parochial as to supply products for only one market. Ford doesn't do that, nor GM nor Chrysler.. As a matter of fact, when I visited the UK last month, I drove a Ford, one of these: http://www.ford.co.uk/Cars/S-MAX with a turbocharged diesel engine. Nice car. Lots of room, plenty of power and cargo carrying capacity. There were 5 of us and all our luggage.
Andre
P.S. You can actually get a Ford Ranger in Russia: http://www.ford.ru/Commercialvehicles/RangerEP2
Then again, Ford actually owns its own manufacturing plants.
I have to agree with something RMax said,
"Another thing to think about is while there is downtime as manufactures get things figured out. You could be installing dcc decoders in what you currently have, upgrading and working on scenery."
I have been out of the hobby for about 7 years. When I started un-packing my old Athearn BB loco's and looking at the price tags on the boxes, I realized I spent more than triple on up-grades, then they cost new. Can motors, new wheels, and early Digitrax decoders. I just recently bought a Tsunami sound decoder for one of my GP 9's Love it and now have several more installs to do. Sure I would love to get some new stuff, but I will be busy installing decoders, laying track, finishing some buildings I bought over 8 years ago, and doing scenery. Not to mention detailing loco's and rolling stock. So I can sure keep myself busy until I find something I can't live with out.
Paul
Living in Fernley Nevada, about 30 miles east of Reno, also lived in Oregon and California, but born In Brooklyn NY and raised on Long Island NY
There may still be something useful. Prices of show goods may also rise.
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Agreed but,they must stay competitive with on line shops and each other.
Its hazardous for a dealer to jack his prices up unless he enjoys unpacking and repacking the same models.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
The last two are interesting thoughts. I also have plenty of loco's and rolling stock. So there is very little need for anything new. My concern right now is detail and replacement parts.
This current industry problem may be a blessing for train shows and dealers of older stock. The last shows there was plenty of inventory of mainstream older product. While somethings may not be in the road you want. There may still be something useful. Prices of show goods may also rise.
Another thing to think about is while there is downtime as manufactures get things figured out. You could be installing dcc decoders in what you currently have, upgrading and working on scenery. It's not the end of the world YET!
In the future the industry may need to go back to more generic product and modelers will need to model again. I know we have had a thread on what is model railroading but buying a 100% detail loco is more collecting than anything. Scenery may be your thing but it may be time to get other skills.
RMax
Rick: Someone posted the website with the financial statements for Kader (Botchmann) on the old Atlas Forum. In taking those financial statements apart I noted that Europe's sales were down at least 25% due to their ecomomy over there and in that segment of the market they lost money.
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Call Bachmann "Botchmann" all you want but,they sure enough slap the big 3 in the face by marketing afforable models with DCC or DCC/Sound.
You know that slap had to sting.
All of a sudden Bachmann has my attention and that says a lot!!
Take their GP7 and Alco S4 and RS3 do some old fashion modeling and you will have a nice looking locomotive.
Hi!
A couple posters indicated the manufacturing shortage doesn't really affect them, and I guess I fall into that category as well. While I would love to see some ATSF and IC specific steam locos produced, my 1950s era layout is well stocked with locos and cars.
Still, its always a good feeling when something new comes out that you just have to have.
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
I'm thankful that there isn't anything being made by my preferred suppliers of model railroad loco's & rolling stock so I can now concentrate on the layout itself.
I have 80+ locos & 300+ cars to fit on a layout in a 11 X 17' room.
Plenty I have. Don't tell the wife I said that!
Thankfully, eBay, Kijiji & train shows are still a source of products for me.
Gordon
Brought to you by the letters C.P.R. as well as D&H!
K1a - all the way
Kadar owns Bachmann, and they have for about 30 years. Kadar recently bought Sanda Kan, which was badly managed by J P Morgan, and obviously the price was right. Who knows what condition Sanda Kan was in when Kadar bought the company.
Model Railroading products are a specialized industry, even in China. Most of their manufacturers are geared toward producing massive numbers of kettles, frying pans, iPods, laptops. There is a specific set of skills needed to build model locomotives, and not to many companies possess those.
Even tooling is expensive, but you can save a lot of money doing that in China. But it is a slow process to get it right, and tool steel is in high demand everywhere. The best place to find that is China, even there it is in short supply. Since we are not making a simple tool to mould the body of an electric kettle, but a very precise, multi-part, and highly detailed tool for a locomotive, that increases the time and money needed to complete the project.
Since there has been a change in the MR manufacturing sector, there will be impacts as all this gets sorted out. You just can't throw up another factory and solve all the problems overnight.
galaxy don7: As Bachmann has increased the quality of their product and is doing very well in North America, Bachmann is also doing very well in Europe and China (big surprise) Apparently model railroading is very big in China as their disposable income grows. Bachmann needed the factory for themselves. Nothing strange about that. And if they bught it outright, they have every right to it and to make what they want for themselves or for others IF they choose to. That is what happens in ALL industries...a player will buy out something/someone to better control or have a better handle on the goods available to the public. This is NOT new news. Bachmann may have won the race, but not necessarily the battle if someone else muscles in on the MRRing territory, but it will take time for a new player {or an old one} to get into the picture again. If we indeed look to India to be our next maufacturer of goods, other MRR companies MAY start to look there for prospects and "start over" forgetting CHina altogether...then we can all start to complain about "Made in India" !!!
don7:
As Bachmann has increased the quality of their product and is doing very well in North America, Bachmann is also doing very well in Europe and China (big surprise) Apparently model railroading is very big in China as their disposable income grows.
Bachmann needed the factory for themselves. Nothing strange about that.
And if they bught it outright, they have every right to it and to make what they want for themselves or for others IF they choose to.
That is what happens in ALL industries...a player will buy out something/someone to better control or have a better handle on the goods available to the public. This is NOT new news.
Bachmann may have won the race, but not necessarily the battle if someone else muscles in on the MRRing territory, but it will take time for a new player {or an old one} to get into the picture again.
If we indeed look to India to be our next maufacturer of goods, other MRR companies MAY start to look there for prospects and "start over" forgetting CHina altogether...then we can all start to complain about "Made in India" !!!
- Douglas
don7 As Bachmann has increased the quality of their product and is doing very well in North America, Bachmann is also doing very well in Europe and China (big surprise) Apparently model railroading is very big in China as their disposable income grows. Bachmann needed the factory for themselves. Nothing strange about that.
Someone posted the website with the financial statements for Kader (Botchmann) on the old Atlas Forum. In taking those financial statements apart I noted that Europe's sales were down at least 25% due to their ecomomy over there and in that segment of the market they lost money.
Also they do not account for warranty returns anywhere in their financials which have to be massive based on comments on all the forums about sending product back for repairs or replacement.
Rick J
Rule 1: This is my railroad.
Rule 2: I make the rules.
Rule 3: Illuminating discussion of prototype history, equipment and operating practices is always welcome, but in the event of visitor-perceived anacronisms, detail descrepancies or operating errors, consult RULE 1!
-G .
Just my thoughts, ideas, opinions and experiences. Others may vary.
HO and N Scale.
After long and careful thought, they have convinced me. I have come to the conclusion that they are right. The aliens did it.
I, too, apologize if any of my previous posts were OT....
Any argument carried far enough will end up in Semantics--Hartz's law of rhetoric Emerald. Leemer and Southern The route of the Sceptre Express Barry
I just started my blog site...more stuff to come...
http://modeltrainswithmusic.blogspot.ca/
maxman Lehigh Valley 2089: Neither the subject nor the responses were - imho - out of line, and in fact were more productive than not. (mobileman44) I have to agree. It was people just making points about how overseas production and economics are related........... I hope that there are several of you out there who would agree with me, opinions are welcome. I can't speak to the deleted posts by the manufacturers/importers as I don't totally remember them. But there was one extensive post by an individual that I found extremely annoying. I totally abhor any post that detours off into political, and sometimes off-topic, commentary. If someone complained, and it wasn't me, I'm glad that particular post was deleted.
Lehigh Valley 2089: Neither the subject nor the responses were - imho - out of line, and in fact were more productive than not. (mobileman44) I have to agree. It was people just making points about how overseas production and economics are related........... I hope that there are several of you out there who would agree with me, opinions are welcome.
Neither the subject nor the responses were - imho - out of line, and in fact were more productive than not. (mobileman44)
I have to agree. It was people just making points about how overseas production and economics are related...........
I hope that there are several of you out there who would agree with me, opinions are welcome.
I can't speak to the deleted posts by the manufacturers/importers as I don't totally remember them. But there was one extensive post by an individual that I found extremely annoying. I totally abhor any post that detours off into political, and sometimes off-topic, commentary. If someone complained, and it wasn't me, I'm glad that particular post was deleted.
Well, if someone had a problem with it, I am okay with it being deleted. The rest of us just think they might have just jumped the gun a little bit. If your glad to see the one post gone, that's alright.
I didn't have an extensive post, but if it was mine you found annoying, I do apologize....... truely.
The Lehigh Valley Railroad, the Route of the Black Diamond Express, John Wilkes and Maple Leaf.
-Jake, modeling the Barclay, Towanda & Susquehanna.
Oh come on, guys - we all knew this was bound to happen. It is an inflammatory topic, which drifted off into politics, and that´s a no no in here. I also got carried away and posted a more political statement, which was rightfully deleted, just like other answers, in the attempt to save the thread. I still think it is an interesting topic, with many valuable answers, but I learned that you can´t discuss it without straying into politics.
Blaming our host or bashing the mods isn´t really helpful, either. So let´s put the case to rest and move on.
blownout cylinder riogrande5761: Odie: If what the other posters are saying about Jason's post is true, then that is a pretty low blow by the mods on here. I am very disappointed MR staff has decided what is fit for my eyes and what isn't in this case. I really would like to know what part of the TOS Jason's post violated. I agree here. If Jason Shrons post was removed, it seems there was some sort of draconian soviet/peoples republic of china style censoring going on here. Jason has always posted consistant with most of the industry information. For shame MR/moderator(s)!? Ummmmm...what did happen to this thread? Jason's informative post-Gone, a bunch of other posts from various others referring to it-Gone, including a few of my own things, plus that of Nittany Lions.... Not sure what that is all about...
riogrande5761: Odie: If what the other posters are saying about Jason's post is true, then that is a pretty low blow by the mods on here. I am very disappointed MR staff has decided what is fit for my eyes and what isn't in this case. I really would like to know what part of the TOS Jason's post violated. I agree here. If Jason Shrons post was removed, it seems there was some sort of draconian soviet/peoples republic of china style censoring going on here. Jason has always posted consistant with most of the industry information. For shame MR/moderator(s)!?
Odie: If what the other posters are saying about Jason's post is true, then that is a pretty low blow by the mods on here. I am very disappointed MR staff has decided what is fit for my eyes and what isn't in this case. I really would like to know what part of the TOS Jason's post violated.
If what the other posters are saying about Jason's post is true, then that is a pretty low blow by the mods on here. I am very disappointed MR staff has decided what is fit for my eyes and what isn't in this case. I really would like to know what part of the TOS Jason's post violated.
I agree here. If Jason Shrons post was removed, it seems there was some sort of draconian soviet/peoples republic of china style censoring going on here. Jason has always posted consistant with most of the industry information. For shame MR/moderator(s)!?
Ummmmm...what did happen to this thread? Jason's informative post-Gone, a bunch of other posts from various others referring to it-Gone, including a few of my own things, plus that of Nittany Lions....
Not sure what that is all about...
Yeah, I thought it was kinda odd. I tried to be very non-political and mainly "business, nothing personal" about things.
Meanwhile, not a peep from the mods yet. What gives MR???
Odie I find it interesting that the mods were watching this thread close enough to censor a boatload of posts today but now they are nowhere to be found when asked about the reasoning behind it. I'm not so sure about this place any more.
I find it interesting that the mods were watching this thread close enough to censor a boatload of posts today but now they are nowhere to be found when asked about the reasoning behind it. I'm not so sure about this place any more.
Yeah, geee, I think one or two of my posts in here were deleted..usually I get a message as to why but not this time...all I said was..oh never mind, It will get deleted again!!!
I only said this thread was going to BE one of those "no-no's"!!!
They have the right, but sometimes the "free exchange of thoughts and ideas" gets squashed! Censorship lives on!
riogrande5761 Odie: If what the other posters are saying about Jason's post is true, then that is a pretty low blow by the mods on here. I am very disappointed MR staff has decided what is fit for my eyes and what isn't in this case. I really would like to know what part of the TOS Jason's post violated. I agree here. If Jason Shrons post was removed, it seems there was some sort of draconian soviet/peoples republic of china style censoring going on here. Jason has always posted consistant with most of the industry information. For shame MR/moderator(s)!?
Lehigh Valley 2089 Neither the subject nor the responses were - imho - out of line, and in fact were more productive than not. (mobileman44) I have to agree. It was people just making points about how overseas production and economics are related........... I hope that there are several of you out there who would agree with me, opinions are welcome.
doctorwayne Hmmm. I just finished reading a bunch of deleted posts, one of which was very informative, a couple were a little silly and the rest were rather innocuous. Wayne.
Hmmm. I just finished reading a bunch of deleted posts, one of which was very informative, a couple were a little silly and the rest were rather innocuous. Wayne.
Wayne, my post was one of those deleted - - - it was a reply to Jason's post.
Since my posts are never informative, LOL, I was just curious if mine was a little silly or rather innocuous?
Rich
Alton Junction
mobilman44 Hey, what's going on here????? The post from Rapido (Jason) was probably one of the most valuable and truly informative posts I've seen on the subject. And now it - and several responses referencing it - are gone (including mine). I've been on this forum for a long, long time, and this is the first time I feel the "deleters" jumped the gun. Neither the subject nor the responses were - imho - out of line, and in fact were more productive than not. If there was a problem in the eyes of those with the forum power, then explain it to us and lock the thread. Deleting posts is just downright wrong!
Hey, what's going on here?????
The post from Rapido (Jason) was probably one of the most valuable and truly informative posts I've seen on the subject. And now it - and several responses referencing it - are gone (including mine).
I've been on this forum for a long, long time, and this is the first time I feel the "deleters" jumped the gun.
Neither the subject nor the responses were - imho - out of line, and in fact were more productive than not.
If there was a problem in the eyes of those with the forum power, then explain it to us and lock the thread.
Deleting posts is just downright wrong!
I have to agree. Though I have been on this forum for a MUCH shorter time, I don't know what was so wrong about what was posted. It was people just making points about how overseas production and economics are related, and I think there are actually worse things out there that are being overlooked than what we had going.
While deleting posts may help keep someone from needing a box of , they should really consider how much harm the post would actually be doing instead of just deleting some posts. Also, they should see how others are taking them, to see if there is any need to delete the posts. If there is, just start a conversation with those that were a part of the thread, let them know, and lock the thread. If someone still has a problem, only then can they delete them.
Well, in all fairness, it is their show. I do think, though, that the most informative of the removed posts dispelled a lot of misinformation that's been floating around here and other model railroading forums for a while. Each of us is, of course, free to interpret it in our own way (well, we could have been ). I think that there's much more fodder for disagreements and arguement when we have only hearsay and speculation with which to work - that post, in my opinion, would have dispelled much of the supposition and its associated ills.
Wayne
I re read the original post. It sounds like capitalism at it's best. Here in the states the government and others would be screaming about a monopoly. In China it is probably way down the list of priorities. Fact is Bachmann wants to sell trains. They want to sell more trains than their competitors. So they buy the factory and shut their competition out. They sell more trains! Now the other companies are going holy crap what now. Bachmann sells more trains because they have them. Other companies are now forced to find a manufacturer and quickly. People wanting special model trains are going when am I going to get one? Maybe never! For some businesses it may be the end of the line. If they do not have the time and resources to find someone to make their goods they are sunk. Mean while at Bachmann they sell more trains! People like Rapido and Exactrail will always find someone to make their goods if they survive. It's kind of like Ferrari. They may only sell a few hundred a year but someone is always willing to pay for it. Mean while back at Bachmann, they sell more trains. Where it is going to hurt is the mid level companies.
ksax73 AntonioFP45: Jason from Rapido made what, imho, was an outstanding post that hit on target. I was looking for it and wondered what happened. It was not controversial nor inappropriate, but well thought out and professional. Very disappointed to see it zapped. I agree. I find it disappointing that it was somehow found necessary to delete that post. It directly answers and addresses questions/speculations. A manufacturer provided insight into the issues that has many of us concerned and instead of allowing it to remain it was decided that modelers are "best left in the dark", deleting the post and paving the way for more speculation, conspiracy theories and baseless insinuations. Although a small issue on the radar, I urge Rapido to continue participating with the end users and occasionally providing continued insight into how the business works. I'd like to say more but I'd hate to provide another reason to have additional posts removed (I probably said to much already)
AntonioFP45: Jason from Rapido made what, imho, was an outstanding post that hit on target. I was looking for it and wondered what happened. It was not controversial nor inappropriate, but well thought out and professional. Very disappointed to see it zapped.
Jason from Rapido made what, imho, was an outstanding post that hit on target. I was looking for it and wondered what happened. It was not controversial nor inappropriate, but well thought out and professional. Very disappointed to see it zapped.
I agree. I find it disappointing that it was somehow found necessary to delete that post. It directly answers and addresses questions/speculations.
A manufacturer provided insight into the issues that has many of us concerned and instead of allowing it to remain it was decided that modelers are "best left in the dark", deleting the post and paving the way for more speculation, conspiracy theories and baseless insinuations.
Although a small issue on the radar, I urge Rapido to continue participating with the end users and occasionally providing continued insight into how the business works.
I'd like to say more but I'd hate to provide another reason to have additional posts removed (I probably said to much already)
To be frank I think one or more of the mods is a tad to quick on the trigger to delete or lock a topic.
As a moderator on three forums I find where there is no rule infraction there is no violation and there is a gray area that must be considered before taking action..
But,maybe the powers that be at MR order the posts removed or removed the posts in question in themselves or perhaps removed them due to complaints from other manufacturers or forum members..I dunno.
We need a lot of Moms and Pops with all the money they saved and invested over the years to start producing train stuff to satisfy out lust for more than we really need. Of course, no other hobby is included.
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
riogrande5761 So having a product available and unaffordable ain't much good to most of us is it?
So having a product available and unaffordable ain't much good to most of us is it?
No, it isn't much good if the product is available but unaffordable.
But, what is worse, in my view, is having a product that is affordable but unavailable.
At least if the product is available, I have a choice to buy it or not.
If it is unavailable, I have no choice.