Maybe 'newbies' shouldn't 'armchair railroad'

[BRJN]

Plane-crazy, I think you are somewhat off-track about reading.

I have a collection of MRRs that includes issues from 1977, 1993, and I just started a new subscription. If you want to see articles that will make your newbie hairs stand on end and convince you 'I could never do that', look at the 1977 materials. Most memorable was one about how to scratchbuild a 6 foot long trestle using scale wood, about the size of a match. I took one look at that (I was about 10 at the time) and decided I would NEVER have a decent model railroad, just a flat table with a loop of track on it.

By 1993, MRR had a column titled 'Just for Beginners' which covered things like wiring, Kadee vs NMRA couplers, basic scenery, cleaning the locomotive's workings, road crossings. Being almost 30 (but with no space in my own home) I started thinking about my own 4x8 someday and believed I could build something that worked.

Today MRR is more aimed at beginners and confidence-building 'how-to' articles than before. The article on 'How to make realistic water' - or for that matter, 'How to lay bulletproof track' - are things I can actually see myself using (someday - the kids have to grow up so I will have a room in the house). I have finally got up the gumption and spare money to buy a 2x6 plank and track and an engine and a dozen cars. (This took a few months.) As soon as I clear off one wall of my garage I can put up something that will RUN. If MRR was still running articles for the expert-level scratchbuilder I would never have started.

[easyaces]

Best way to learn like i did was join a club. First time I ran a train on the club layout, I thought they would all die laughing . Thats when I learned about Kadee couplers. (I still had horn-hook couplers on all my cars) That day my eyes got opened and I listened to everything I could pick up from the other club members.

[hminky]

Jump in the water's fine, is what I say. If you are a new person, hate the word "newbie" start a small beginner's layout. After awhile your likes and dislikes will be known. I have built in every scale and have finally settled on On30. E-bay eats your earlier scales inventory. I am now building a small 4x8 layout to develop techniques for my project 26x53 empire. Enjoying every minute of this layout[:D][:D][:D].

http://www.pacificcoastairlinerr.com/main_page/

Most magazines seem to neglect the trainset to empire aspect. If you are new just jump in.
Just my opinion.
Harold

[robengland]

I bought a whole bunch of back issues of MR for a buck apiece. A hundred bucks spent and I'm happily reading for months, and boy am I learning a lot. Like earlier respondents, I dispute that MR is hopelessly advanced. there is a ton of beginner material there along with the inspirational stuff. Second-hand back issues of MR and the internet are the two most cost effective sources of info available for the beginner.

[MAbruce]

Another interesting topic and the replies have been even more interesting. Not so much in their content as much as the positions being taken and by whom.

This all reminds me of when my wife and I were new parents and all the advice we received. Was it all bad? No. Was it all good? No. The biggest problem was sorting through the deluge of advice. Through out this we did notice one trend: How older parents seemed to have forgotten what it is like to be a new parent. I see the same sort thing happening here.

The MRR world is different than it was even ten years ago. New technologies and an explosion of product selection have only made it even tougher on newbies to know where to start. I think it’s a normal reflex to start in “armchair” mode in order to sort through the nearly endless streams of information to make informed choices for the type (and level) of modeling desired. Also, to the average person, this is an expensive hobby to which most are reluctant to plop down their hard earned money on something that may not be compatible down the road. I think that veteran modelers need to keep this in mind when giving advice.

There are times when I relate what is happening in the MRR world to a show called “This Old House”. Many years ago I enjoyed watching this show to get inspiration and ideas for basic remolding projects. I stopped watching this show after I could no longer relate to extravagant projects like taking a small two bedroom ranch and turning it into a mini-mansion complete with a fully equipped media room and heated doghouse.

I agree that this hobby can be extremely costly and life absorbing – even more so these days. The level of modeling that is routinely showcased in publications like MR often requires a sizable commitment of time and resources. Also, the one thing those articles don’t really tell you (and I’ve found out in the real world) is that those showcased expert modelers tend to live, breathe, and eat trains. It’s their lives. Sorry, but I (and most people I imagine) are not necessarily interested in taking our MRR interests to that level. It’s just a hobby (in the technical definition) to us.

Overall, I’d say that jumping right in strategy is good for some, but not for all. As with most things in life, one size does not fit all. I think that a minimum of research is needed, mostly to determine what one wants to get out of the hobby (or how far they want to get into it) and what will be needed to achieve this. This can unfortunately be a confusing process because I think the MRR world has not made it very easy to access relevant information without paying a premium for it. Free information is difficult to find, and the how-to books tend to be overpriced (in my opinion).

[Jetrock]

I suppose maybe my perspective is skewed as a somewhat experienced model railroader, but I note that there is some sort of starter/beginner oriented article in every issue of MR, and I have seen a lot more emphasis on small shelf railroads. The September MR even had a track plan for a 4x6 layout with 18" curves!!

Generally, hobby/special interest magazines portray the "best and brightest" in their field. Sports Illustrated doesn't do cover stories on little league teams, Hot Rod doesn't feature a lot of glossy color photos of semi-functional Bondo & primer covered cars, Muscle & Fitness prints few photos of people who go to the gym twice a month.

The idea behind showing these big layouts is to inspire, to show what is possible, to encourage dreams and creativity. Reading MR as a teenager, I didn't think I'd ever have a layout like the Gorre & Daphetid, but I knew I'd have SOME kind of layout--just as when I read Muscle & Fitness and saw pictures of Arnold Schwartzenegger, I wasn't discouraged by my limited chances of winning Mr. Olympia, but was inspired to work out to have the best body *I* could have--and seeing the work of master model railroaders encouraged me to see what kind of model railroad *I* could build. (And, heck, if I went to the gym as often as I worked on my model railroad, maybe I could have won a few bodybuilding contests by now...)

I read enormously on the subject of model railroading because I read enormously anyhow. If you're one of those people who hates to read, whose only magazine subscription is to TV Guide, then maybe reading a lot won't work for you. If you'd rather go hands-on, then hey, do so. The train sets are out there.

Do what works. That won't always be the same for everyone. Some people might get frustrated by just buying a "trainset" and watching it loop around and around, then get bored with it before they discover the real potential of model railroading, beyond the simple loop of track. For them, reading can be a more inspiring way to learn than doing.

[johncolley]

In one's first attempts at ANYTHING NEW, one should go thru the articles prop the book(s) in front of you, get all the materials together and work the steps thru some samples to get the feel of what and why and what order. Whether it is laying roadbed, track, ballast, scenery, backdrops, electrical, or whatever. Follow the material from those who have gone before, but do the tasks! That's how to learn model railroading! Some jobs you may like doing more than others. then you can trade tasks with others in the same boat.

[Anonymous]

I agree there is some intimidation in this hobby. I jumped back in and spent a ton of money on quality locos and rolling stock, but used ez-track just so I could see and operate a train. This got old very soon as my entire apartment floor was a railroad. Seeing the layouts in MRR 'nagged' me into making a change and taking a chance. Thank goodness for eBay- I was able to re-coup much of the $$ I spent on the first learning experience in HO, moved into a larger apartment and am building a n-scale layout (bi-level, perimeter). I've already ripped-up all the track I laid and replaced it with another, I've changed track plans several times, and I've wasted some time and money in doing so. But with each step and each change I learn more and develope better skills. They say a mr layout is never finished... I believe that- and I'm only a year or two into mine. I try not to look at one issue of ANY magazine mr related to hold the answers I'm looking for. I take out what I can from each issue and apply them. Many issues have great info that I know I will use when my layout approaches that level and I will go back to them when that time comes. I'm ready to try rock moulding- and guess what?- MRR has an article on that (perfect timing!) Yeah, a lot of the articles are beyond my level of craftmanship or I have no interest in them but MRR can't be everything to everybody at the same time. I wouldn't be as far as I am without them! Use what you can and archive or ask questions about the rest! And most of all... Enjoy! It's a hobby!

[Anonymous]

Plane Crazy, My opinion; the purpose of a hobby is relaxation! Something to dispel the pressures of daily life and develop skills that give deep satisfaction and provide confidence. Model Railroading is as multi-faceted a hobby as you can consider getting into. The magazines show examples of these various and multitudinous facets. Most may not apply at first, as you develop experience, it is likely you will develop interests in more than you think. When I started, I wasn't interested in diesels, sound, DCC, signaling, and many other things I am interested in now! I would guess most of us on this forum have small layouts and the magazines even demonstrate how a very small layout can be electrifying in its' detail and realistic appearance!

Reading or "Armchair RRing" is a part I have grown to love doing! I don't look at anything I view or read as the gospel on the subject. But, I do learn something new almost every time I pick-up a book or magazine! When I am learning, I am having fun, also! Don't let the books and magazines overwelm. However to tell someone to forget reading as a part of the hobby seems very short sighted to me.

[timthechef]

I have started my first layout at the age of 42. I look to the articles in MR for insparation. To get ideas for my layout. I bought a few pieces at a time and just started running my trains. It didn't matter if they where great trains or prototypically correct. Just start small and enjoy as you go. You can allways dream of getting bigger and better.

[railfanespee4449]

Just get a trainset and forget detailing for a while! Lifelike and bachmann have reasonably-priced products and hopefully the other manufactures will realize no-one will buy their stuff at those prices Train shows are a source of cheap stuff

[Anonymous]

I'll throw in my experience because I can understand where Plane Crazy is coming from. I'm also 43, and getting back into the hobby for the first time since my teens. Two things that I have done have kept me from going crazy. First I'm using Kato Unitrack, in "N" scale. I've had great experience with it. I can put together a quick test layout and be running trains in 15 minutes or less. To date after about 4 months I've never had a train de-rail or not run, Unitrack is about foolproof, and there are great ideas on the boards and individual websites on how to make it look more realistic. 2nd while designing, and redesigning my layout, I built a quick test layout on an old door, and put it on sawhorses so I can test engines and just fullfill that need to run trains.

I read the starter layout article in MR and said damn, if it takes $500 to build a starter layout then this hobby got too expensive for me. So I started looking in the paper, on Ebay, and put up Train wanted adds in the local grocery stores. I saved a ton of money by buying from someone who was either quiting, changing scales, or moving to DCC. It's a great time to buy non DCC equipment. My first buy was about $800 worth of Track, Atlas Engines, rolling stock, some buildings, and a power supply for $125.00 All in excellent shape. I've purchased 2 more MRC power supplies off of Ebay and never paid more than $15 for them. I've also fell into some box lots of Track on Ebay.

After the thrill of spreading the word about your interest, the #1 job of a Magazine and a hobby shop is to make a profit. You do that buy selling the latest and greatest, and making it seem like if you have last months equipment your at an extreme disadvantage. Thats capitalism and life. But guess what my $15 MRC Tech 3 power supply works as great as when it was state of the art 2-3 years ago. Right now I don't need a $70 Tech 4 or $150 starter DCC package. My bargain Atlas engines can be upgraded to DCC at a later date. My biggest complaint to date is incompatible couplers in "N" scale.

Finally, I may have given up if not for the wealth of information available on this and other similar boards. Hang in there, and play with your trains, as you build your layout. Dave

[Don Gibson]

QUOTE: Originally posted by BRAKIE

The best thing about this hobby you DON"T NEED all those books.......Heck as far as that goes you don't need the magazines or the many layout books that one can buy..

Brakie: If a guy has never built benchwork before, I guess all he needs is some wood, nails and a hammer. Right?

Likewise, if he doesn't understand the basics of electricity, he can learn the hard way - or buy DCC.

Makes sense to me.

[railman]

I got my start in the hobby after picking up a copy of of MR with a 4 by 8 on the cover. I saw what could be done in a smaller space and went at it. I didn't have a clue what I was doing. I took what I could from articles I didn't get, and went on...nobody showed me. It was the story of a small layout that got me going...and 18" track is your friend...I'll go on the record saying that I even have 15" sectional track floating around!!

In the past few years, though, I've seen less and less of the "little stuff" covered, and the cutting of certain departments and columns (Paint Shop, One Reader's Opinion) have made that $40 subscription loom a lot larger for an increasingly bland magazine.

I like to see a big "empire" now and then. It gives me hope for my layout. However, and this following statement will be true forever (unless I win the lottery) , is that I would never buy a $380 locomotive...Just WAY too much money at once. That buys a lot of scenery, if you get my meaning.

Maybe, once in a while, they could do "quickie" reviews or summaries of the lower priced engines out there, the ones that have been around for eons but newbies don't know about, so to provide that service to new in the hobby and reserving space for the dreamers out there in the rest of the magazine.

It would be terrible for a great hobby to get bogged down into cliches and groups when it's existance relies on new blood to keep going. Young people buying Athearn eventually become the old men spending hundreds on brass. It doesn't just happen- and I think that if seeing the same 4 by 8 built in MR a couple times a year causes a few eyes to roll at the RR club, so be it. But that layout may have brought another 50 people into trains. And that's a good thing.

[Anonymous]

I have to say that I highly disagree. I have been armchair modeling ( due to lack of space and money ) for over a year now. I HAD SO MUCH FUN !!![:D][:D][:D][:o)][8D][:)][:P][4:-)][(-D][tup] I liked reading those diverse, obscure articals that I could not relate to, but still are lots of fun. I liked reading about other peoples prototypes and projects, and being well rounded in every aspect of the hobby. while the delay to building a layout is more than i would have liked, I think that I am better for it because I now know alot about the hobby. The other day I began constuction on a very small layout, and although I had missplaced the sencery how-to-book, I could do every thing ( including mixing the watered down glue to the exact formula ) by memory. Armchair modeling works for newbies !

[Anonymous]

Brakie:

I generally agree with you about DC layouts being over-blocked. It's the theory that's needed (same for scenery), a lot of the folks coming in to the hobby have no idea how to wire anything beyond a single feeder, and absolutely no idea how easy basic scenery can be. And a lot of folks aren't as adventurous as I was when I started (of course, at 10 years old, most people are adventurous). But those are the two books I'd still stick with for a beginner (Rather than any of the 'for beginners' books, as most anybody can figure out bechwork for a 4x8 and how to use sectional track). One of the advantages is these two books are always usefull for a refresher on the subject when you haven't touched it in a while.

[robengland]

Just to present a contrary position: ;)

Everyone has a different way of getting into something new, especially something new and BIG like model railroading. The "anti-reading" positions presented here will work for some people, not for others.

Some of us still remember how to read and learn, and still have enough patience (just) to not be overwhelmed by the scale of the task, to be willing to work gradually towards it. I can't get enough info. I'm trawling through back issues of MR and RMC, back into the 70s, in search of gems of ideas. I keep notes. I have files.

I am inspired by the genius of others. I want to see the best. I want to sit at the feet of Selios and Furlow and Armstrong and Allen and King and a hundred others and learn from the masters. Then I want to see just how well I can do. I want to aspire.

At the same time, I'm a newbie. There is basic stuff I want and need to know. And I get what i need from MR. I get the inspirational stuff, and I get the basics. The balance is good (maybe not perfect but what is?)

Sure you can roll your sleeves up and bog in and thrash around trying to get stuff to work. I think many people who take that tack will get far more frustrated and lost than they will by reading some good stuff to start them on the right track (so to speak).

Sure model railroading is vast and complex and challenging. That's the attraction. If that is overwhelming, try slotcars.

[BRAKIE]

Here is a prime example of over complicating things for the beginner.
(Snip)One of the Layout Wiring books and Basic Scenery for Model Railroads.
Neither book is needed..You see most DC layouts is over blocked and as for the scenery a newbie should start with simple but basic scenery..No need for mountains and rivers on a first layout.Those will come later after the basic skills are master.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mykroft,I am not picking on you..I just wanted to use those books as a prime example on how to over complicate things on a first layout...

[Allen Jenkins]

Buddy, I have fun, with just a greenville woodchip hopper, and a 47 cord pulpwood car, NS, and Sou, respectively. Enjoy Your Hobby! ACJ.

[Anonymous]

While I'm a sucker for those books (Or any book), there's only a couple that I'd consider necessary for a beginner. One of the Layout Wiring books and Basic Scenery for Model Railroads.

One thing to remember is that MR attempts to cover the most popular aspects of the hobby, in order to keep the most people interested. While you won't see the amount of RPM (Prototype Modelling) coverage that you would in RMC, MM, or RMJ, you also get a fair bit more info for the beginner, including at elast one layout a year. I've also seen some absolutely superb small layouts in MR, including a 5'x9' and a 12' shelf in the last year, one of the reasons that larger layouts tend to get featured is that very often the folks with the larger layouts tend to know more people in the hobby, so word gets out about their layout. I suspect that there's quite a number of article-worthy small layouts that will never get written up because the owner is a lone wolf (As many modellers are).

And remember, your first layout doesn't need to be the AM or Utah Belt, nor does your last layout. As long as you're having fun, you're doing good.

[Mark300]

Great bunch of posts.....

Model railroading like anything creative, is fun, a challenge and therefore a bit risky, and is going to be a different experience for each person. Staying involved, not over focusing; getting envious, insecure or 'up-tight' is unversal advise and should be foremost in your/our pursuit of this version of happiness (The true American pastime).

Afterall a hobby is supposed to be 'recreational' in that is we get a chance to 'recreate' something in almost any form in almost any way with as many or as few 'trains' as our circumstances allow. Getting 'messy' and having fun are the two most contradictory behaviours in any creative endeavor and yet, the right combination can bring satisfying results, a new round of experiences and hopefully, a desire to move further into developing your particular layout.

Not trying to mix metaphors here, the above posts say it well; don't get stuck and 'Jus' keep on mov'in!'

Mark

[on30francisco]

Although I entered this hobby in the 60s through Lionel, I agree that for the newcomer (and sometimes myself and other seasoned modelers) many of the modeling magazines today emphasize huge layouts that took years to perfect, very pricey equipment, the same people showing their museum-quality equipment and models, and a lot of other things that can really discourage a newcomer or even someone who has been in the hobby for years. There is nothing wrong with these articles but I believe the editors should take into consideration that there are many potential newcomers reading these magazines trying to get started in this hobby. What is needed are publications like the old Kalmbach books such as "HO Railroad That Grows" or "HO Primer" by Lynn Westcott and "HO Narrow Gauge Railroad You Can Build" by Malcolm Furlow. Granted, a lot of material in there is outdated but the magazines can be updated to reflect the equipment that is currently available. Model Railroader should also publish more beginner layouts like it used to do in the 60s and 70s that can be built with a minimal investment in supplies. These layouts were designed to get trains running in a reasonable amount of time. After the trains were running then improvements could begin.

[BRAKIE]

The best thing about this hobby you DON"T NEED all those books..I fully agree these books can only confuse the newbie..Heck as far as that goes you don't need the magazines or the many layout books that one can buy.This hobby is not that complicated unless one makes it complicated.There is NO great mysteries to solve..How hard is it to lay a basic oval with some switches and hook up 2 wires?
Kids has done that for years with Lionel.Adults has done it for years..And both without books,computers,and expert advice that can be misleading or the experts want to make it sound ever so complicated..
With todays hobby you can just about buy everything you need ready made including the premixed glue you need to glue ballast and scenery with.All you have to do is follow the written instructions on the bag.That is how simple it is.
Simpler still? Join a club and run your trains there.
About clubs..I been a member of seven different clubs..We always welcome the new modeler as members as does the club I am now a member of..
Most newbies try to eat the whole pie in one bite..Friends it doesn't work that way..You CAN NOT gain the experience you need for that dream layout without
building your first layout and you can't do that by being a armchair modeler and reading books.
Now all newbies and armchairers repeat aftter me..YOU GAIN EXPERIENCE BY DOING..NOT BY READING BOOKS.[:D]

[IRONROOSTER]

A good sequence when you're new is to read, do, then read some more, then do some more. Or you could do, then read, etc. I read a lot first because I didn't have room for a layout, but I did build some kits and set up a loop of track on a table. I think we have a fear of wasting money. Personally, I changed scales twice before I found the one that works best for me. But I still had fun along the way. Was the money wasted? Not really, I was having fun. There's a lot to be said for a small layout with Athearn, MDC, etc rolling stock and Atlas buildings which is how I started. You can have fun without a lot of expense. And if you mess it up, no big deal just do it over or 'plant' a bush next to it.

The great thing about this hobby is that there is no 'right' way.
Enjoy
Paul

[Allen Jenkins]

I built the Scenery & Operation in 5'x8' from RMC Dec. 1970, with seventeen, or so switches, (all but the yard was powered), for about five-hundred. With two ten car trainz, and four engines, about seven-fifty, at the most. Atlas code 100 track, and two MRC power packs, one with pulse-power, and one with momentum. You could railroad for hours, and not run out of things to do. Nineteen years of research, and I never found anything, in the space required, to match Bill Shoppe's Layout Doctor masterpiece! Try it, if operations, and space permit, and you'll build it several times. I wish I'd built it again in N scale. ACJ.

[Don Gibson]

Plain Crazy;

IT"S A HOBBY: What do you want to do?
Build?: There are books available at hobby stores on 'How to build... wire ... etc.
Run trains?: Buy. All it takes is money.

Model Railroader Is a Hobbyist's Magazine with ads for people who want to know what's available . You cannot buy 3 successive issues without finding a 'How to' articles for beginner's. If you subscribed, you would know that.

What is it YOU want? To talk about it?

Somehow from reading your posts I get the feeling you are looking for things to keep you from joining the hobby: Wheels vs. track - Model Railroader magazine ... and for example, your latest post:

QUOTE: :- "Reading about this hobby will just overwhelm you with its complexity, cost, space requirements and “cliquishness”

.

'One cannot learn to swim without getting wet' - D.G.

[Roadtrp]

Another thought...

When we look at articles in MR, we need to keep an open mind and remember the wide range of reader's skill levels. Early this year MR had a series about creating a $500 layout. I remember reading a lot of negative responses in this forum. People complained that it was amateurish and unworthy of publication in MR. Some folks said that it was a mistake to even lead people to believe that you could create a decent MR for $500, because obviously it couldn’t be done.

I read the article when I was first starting. I liked it... I looked at it and said "Now THAT I can do." Of course it was somewhat discouraging to then come here and find so many who felt that what I found encouraging was crap. Fortunately I'm a stubborn old fart, and I didn't let it stop me.

But I wouldn't doubt that there were at least a few kids with visions of $500 layouts dancing in their heads who decided not to try MR because of comments here.

[Roadtrp]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Big_Boy_4005

So, how many of you have ever dated one of "those" girls[:p], let alone married one[;)]?

I was going to, but then decided I'd rather have a woman with a brain...

[:p]

[Anonymous]

Reviewing "boutique" examples is nothing new under the sun. Every mag and forum succombs to this . Usually it's just everyone's wish, sometimes it's just obvious pandering to an advertiser. Reviewing Blue Box , Accurail ,et al. , would get old soon. Everyone knows they're limited in what they offer. It's everyone's obsession with "getting the most for your dollar ," that fuels this. Everyone knows - " It's all in the details " & "If you can afford it"