Until recently, I've only ever used Testors dullcoat in a can for sealing decals and weathering on buildings. Now that I'm working on actual train painting, I've started to learn how to use my airbrush for painting duties instead of spray paint and dull coat in a can.
I have questions about spraying clears through an airbrush.
1. Have you ever used Model Masters acrylic clear? It comes in flat, semi-gloss, and gloss. If so, what do you think?
2. Do acrylic clears achieve the same effects as their lacquer based cousins? I try to use water based paints when I can in order to cut down on fumes and for easier clean up.
3. The model master product appears to be the right consistency already for airbrushing. If you have to thin it, can you use window washing fluid like other acrylics?
4. Should I use the gloss for adding the decals and then seal them with flat or semi-gloss? This is for a passenger car so I don't think I want a true flat.
Sorry for the many questions. As you can see, it was hard to find any of these answers using the search function so I thought I would just fire away. Thanks for any input!
I too am getting more into airbrushing, but with acrylics only. Most of the clear flat acrylics that I have tried tend to fog up some. The only one that I have found so far that doesn't, is Micro Flat. But I will say also that I haven't tried Model Masters acrylic clear flat as yet, but have heard from one source that it seems OK also.
I don't think window washing fluid is very good acrylic thinner. Particularly if it has ammonia in it. I use water or 70% isopropal alcohol. I do use window washing fluid with ammonia for clean up and it is excellent for that, but you don't want to leave it in your airbrush as it is not good for any chrome parts and may damage them over time.
Decals should be applied over a gloss coat. The more glossy, the better. Then apply your finish clear coat whether it is flat, semi-gloss, or gloss.
Elmer.
The above is my opinion, from an active and experienced Model Railroader in N scale and HO since 1961.
(Modeling Freelance, Eastern US, HO scale, in 1962, with NCE DCC for locomotive control and a stand alone LocoNet for block detection and signals.) http://waynes-trains.com/ at home, and N scale at the Club.
I have used Dull Cote and Floquil Flat Finish for years and will stay with them as long as they are available.
I have never had any luck with water based flat finishes. I did try the Model Masters acrylic flat that you mentioned, and it came out horribly. The finish turned a bit white and looked terrible. I simply oversprayed with Floquil Flat and all was well, though some of the whiteness is still visible. I use distilled water for thinning water based paint.
I have been airbrushing for at least 30 years, so I am not new at this. I will say, I do like water based colors such as Model Flex and Polly Scale. But when it comes to a clear finish, I will stay with lacquer based stuff.
As far as applying decals, most of the time, I use Floquil Flat Finish under and over the decals. I know this might seem odd, but the flat finish has a bit of a sheen when it dries and it accepts decals very well.
I'm sure others have different opinions and suggestions. But, this works well for me.
Chuck - Modeling in HO scale and anything narrow gauge
Elmer, I used automotive window fluid for diluting my poly scale paint. It turned out fine but maybe I just got lucky. Thanks for your reply.
Chuck, thanks for your input. I figured someone on here could give me a thumbs up or thumbs down. I bought some of the flat already so maybe I'll try it on some innocent blue box castaway! If it doesn't turn out I suppose I could just buy some lacquer based flat and spray away. Thanks again.
Hi Corey,
I've been using the Model Masters acrylic flat for over a year now and I like it very much. It is about the right consistency for airbrushing with my Badger 200 airbrush at about 30 to 35 psi. Be careful when the bottle starts getting low, however, as it can thicken up to the point where it will spatter instead of spraying smoothly.
I switched to the Model Masters flat after I had some blushing problems with Polly Scale flat finish (also acrylic). So far that hasn't happened with Model Masters.
I use Pledge With Future acrylic floor wax (it's ready to airbrush right from the bottle too, believe it or not) as a clear finish before applying decals, and follow up with the Model Masters flat after the decals are set. I also use the Model Masters flat over ready-to-run paint jobs to give some surface "tooth" before doing any weathering.
I haven't done a passenger car lately, but I'd certainly try the Model Masters semi-gloss for that.
Good luck,
Andy
Andy, thank you for taking the time to respond.
Have you ever had to thin the clear flat when you get to the bottom? If so, what do you use.?
Would you recommend just spot 'painting' with Future instead of spraying the whole thing with gloss clear acrylic?
Sorry for the additional questions. When I learn new things I try to learn as much as possible.
Corey, I use the "Model Master Flat Acryl" for a clear flat - seems to work OK. I tried the Micro Scale Flat and Satin, and discovered that they do not play well with Solvaset. You shouldn't have to thin the clear flat when you get to the bottom of the bottle. You should keep it well stirred, and it'll be fine. A trick I use is to drop 3 or 4 BBs into the bottle when I open it for the first time. They then serve to help agitate the paint when you shake the bottle.
Do not "spot paint" the Future - spray the whole car/model. Then apply decals, and when they are dry, give it a second coat of Future. Then add the flat finish of your choice. The second coat of Future ensures a uniform finish and texture to the decaled area.
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Gary M. Collins gmcrailgNOSPAM@gmail.com
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"Common Sense, Ain't!" -- G. M. Collins
http://fhn.site90.net
Thanks Gary.
I generally spray the whole car with any clear finish, to avoid having the edges of the spray pattern show up. (This is a good idea for any spray painting, except weathering sprays.) I haven't tried thinning the Model Master flat because I had a new bottle on hand. In an emergency I'd try using a small amount of distilled water.
So long,
Andy Sperandeo I use Pledge With Future acrylic floor wax (it's ready to airbrush right from the bottle too, believe it or not) as a clear finish before applying decals, Andy
I use Pledge With Future acrylic floor wax (it's ready to airbrush right from the bottle too, believe it or not) as a clear finish before applying decals,
Andy, what do you use to clean out the airbrush after using the Future?
Thanks
I am in the same boat and find the advice here useful, even if varied. Everyone has their system.
I am currently repainting an old brass PFM (United) K-28 D&RGW mike after removing the ancient paint job of some other modeler.
I haven't used my airbrush since the early 90's and find the new acrlyics are really sweet. I love the way the thinned polyscale "steam power black" came out on the engine boiler-cab section and wish I could keep the grungy black look as is, but understand I must gloss coat at least the decal areas. I might just gloss shoot the whole thing. I will then decal and then respray with thinned clear dull or flat.
I will stick with micro-scale products for all the processes of glossing, decaling and over coating. Doing this, there will hopefully be no interaction issues in the process. I thin with 90% ethanol. Needless to say, the 10% is distilled water. The polyscale product dries to sight almost on contact. I set the air nozzle to a whisper thin flash coat and hit the model over several passes. What I have done so far is darn good looking.
I am forced by prototype to hand paint the smoke box and stack a dark silver as well as the cylinder/valve covers. The front end of this puppy is a complicated mix of black and silver with 5 black number boards and black compound air pump mounted on the silver front smoke box cover. I see no way to spray here. Plus, the thin sides of the cat-walks along the boiler are reefer white... oh boy!
Once finished with a beautiful paint job, the thought of weathering all that nice work is abhorrent to me.
Richard
If I can't fix it, I can fix it so it can't be fixed
maxman Andy Sperandeo: I use Pledge With Future acrylic floor wax (it's ready to airbrush right from the bottle too, believe it or not) as a clear finish before applying decals, Andy Andy, what do you use to clean out the airbrush after using the Future? Thanks
Andy Sperandeo: I use Pledge With Future acrylic floor wax (it's ready to airbrush right from the bottle too, believe it or not) as a clear finish before applying decals, Andy
Ammonia is the secret cleaning agent for Future. I use Windex with ammonia to clean my airbrush after running Future through it.
Mark.
¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ
Mark R. secret cleaning agent for Future. I use Windex with ammonia to clean my airbrush after running Future through it. Mark.
secret cleaning agent for Future. I use Windex with ammonia to clean my airbrush after running Future through it.
For thinner/cleaner I've been using a 80/20 mix of water/70% alcohol for the last 15 years. The mix has just enough alcohol to promote paint flow and doesn't accellerate the drying time. Too much alcohol can also cause the paint to gum up the airbrush. I use a couple of ModelMaster thinner bottles.
Generally I just rinse my equipment with water. Primarilly I use a Paasche VL and if I clean it right after using it, all that's needed is a good water rinse, I do pull the pin and wipe it clean and just flush the brush with water until it runs clear, including back flushing by holding a finger close to the nozzle and it's ready to be used again. Once a month or so I will break down the air brush and give it a thorough cleaning with 91% alcohol. If I do let the paint dry in the air brush then I break it down and let it soak in laquer thinner scrub everything using a toothbrush and pipe cleaners finishing with a thorough water rinse, (laquer thinner will gum up acrylic paints, so don't for get the water rinse).
I don't see any reason to use window cleaners or any other exotic stuff for cleaning or thinning, the water/alcohol mix works great and alcohol is cheap!.
Jay
C-415 Build: https://imageshack.com/a/tShC/1
Other builds: https://imageshack.com/my/albums
I have had trouble using "BB's" in acrylic paints. The copper plated steel will rust after some time. Not a problem with the non water based coverings. I use the pellets that are made of lead. 22 caliber for large bottles and 177 for the small containers. One per bottle is normal. But what works better is a paint mixer, battery powered, and easy to clean.
Bob Thomason
I sprayed the passenger cars with 'Model Master acryl' gloss last night straight from the bottle. The finish is nice and even and looks good to me. Now I'll attempt to apply the decals straight! I think I'll try the semi gloss to seal the decals afterwards.
Thanks to everyone for their input on this subject. This forum has been a great help over the years.
Bob T I have had trouble using "BB's" in acrylic paints. The copper plated steel will rust after some time. Not a problem with the non water based coverings. I use the pellets that are made of lead. 22 caliber for large bottles and 177 for the small containers. One per bottle is normal. But what works better is a paint mixer, battery powered, and easy to clean. Bob Thomason
Thanks for the info, Bob! I was wondering if that would happen.... Time to punt, I guess...
narrow gauge nuclear I haven't used my airbrush since the early 90's and find the new acrlyics are really sweet. I love the way the thinned polyscale "steam power black" came out on the engine boiler-cab section and wish I could keep the grungy black look as is, but understand I must gloss coat at least the decal areas. I might just gloss shoot the whole thing. I will then decal and then respray with thinned clear dull or flat........ ......I am forced by prototype to hand paint the smoke box and stack a dark silver as well as the cylinder/valve covers. The front end of this puppy is a complicated mix of black and silver with 5 black number boards and black compound air pump mounted on the silver front smoke box cover. I see no way to spray here. Plus, the thin sides of the cat-walks along the boiler are reefer white... oh boy!
I haven't used my airbrush since the early 90's and find the new acrlyics are really sweet. I love the way the thinned polyscale "steam power black" came out on the engine boiler-cab section and wish I could keep the grungy black look as is, but understand I must gloss coat at least the decal areas. I might just gloss shoot the whole thing. I will then decal and then respray with thinned clear dull or flat........
......I am forced by prototype to hand paint the smoke box and stack a dark silver as well as the cylinder/valve covers. The front end of this puppy is a complicated mix of black and silver with 5 black number boards and black compound air pump mounted on the silver front smoke box cover. I see no way to spray here. Plus, the thin sides of the cat-walks along the boiler are reefer white... oh boy!
Richard, with the loco dis-assembled, you should be able to paint it without masking and, in most cases, with very little brush-painting, and most of the latter being very easy. For the locos shown below, I used at least three different "blacks" on each, along with a custom-mixed colour for the smoke boxes and fireboxes. Each loco also received several different oversprays of clear finish, ranging from dead flat to a fairly high gloss, applied to various areas - all of this was done without masking, other than holding a piece of paper or cardstock over adjacent areas. The red areas and white trim were done with a brush - use a good-quality brush and the task will be much easier. Any piping or appliances (pumps, number boards, etc.) which need to be a different colour than the area to which they're mounted can also be done with a brush.
This BLI Mikado, painted for a friend, was done, like all of my paint jobs, as a new locomotive...
...then weathered, as per the owner's tastes, more heavily than I prefer for my own:
To represent a loco near the end of steam, she wanted even more weathering, resulting in this version:
This loco was masked, but only for the red on the cab roof and the lettering and striping on the cab and tender:
narrow gauge nuclear Once finished with a beautiful paint job, the thought of weathering all that nice work is abhorrent to me.
Weathering a steam locomotive doesn't always mean that it has to look like it's on its last legs. If you thin your weathering colours very severely (I prefer 10% colour and the balance thinner - distilled water for PollyScale and lacquer thinner for Floquil), you'll have much better control over the amount of "dirt" added by each pass of the airbrush. A light coat of "road dust" applied on the lower part of the loco and tender (make sure that the wheels are turning as you apply the paint) and a little "soot" applied along the boiler top and cab roof is sufficient for a newly-shopped loco, and you can build on that for an engine which has been in-service longer.
Wayne